Loan System is Killing Football and Clubs Like City

[Saint Canary 0]

I honestly believe that the loan system in this country is killing football.  When I say this, I don''t particularly mean Bellamy to Cardiff nor am I talking about Roeder basically loaning us into relegation.  The amount of players we took during that time is concerning, there is no doubt about that but for me the problems stems higher up the food chain in the Premier League.

For me the big problem of the loan system is this, established Premier League clubs are monopolising all the best young talent in this country, hoarding many players in the hope of developing a few first teamers.  They keep huge squads of young players, loaning them out all over the Football League, giving short-term gains for smaller clubs but longer term advantages for the larger parent clubs.  They discard those not up to the job and recall those with promise.  This only helps to keep the big clubs up and the smaller ones down.

I am 30 and for the first half of my life, I only knew good times as a Norwich City supporter.  European nights, FA cup semi finals, top four finishes and watching the type of football that was worth the ticket price twice over.  I fear for City now and clubs like us.  I fear that those days will never be repeated unless some oil baron or Bill Gates decide to make City their new play thing.  I fear because the way we went about assembling such a good side probably can''t be done anymore.  Today, City would not get the opportunity to buy the likes of Crook, Bowen and Culverhouse from Spurs, we would only be able to loan them and once it was clear they were Premier League quality, we would never see them again.  Buying players such as those, mixed with our own youth players and shrewd buys from lower down the leagues were the backbone of success for City.  The likes of Crook just aren''t for sale anymore, the Steve Bruces aren''t at Gillingham and Ruel Fox would probably be on Arsenal''s books as a youngster.

I am not silly, the big clubs have always been a magnet for the best young players but the way the Premier League operates now and the huge sums of money involved allows for them to carry so many players.  I honestly think that instead of the pointless "home grown" policy the the Premier League is now employing, they need to look at either capping the amount of young players clubs can have or capping the amount of players a club can send on loan.  I know that will never happen, the Premier League will not want to upset the big boys but something needs to be done to stop these clubs "buying success" and promote the virtues of being able to build a team like City did and to a greater extent Derby.

Rant over........... sorry, I had a moment! 

[TIL 1010 4,719]

A good post and spot on.Your rant will attract a lot of comments i am sure or should i say a lot of similar rants.

[ryan1992 0]

I believe that, yes, the loan system may be taken advantage of by these ''bigger'' clubs, but, We wouldnt have signed Hucks if it wasnt for these prem clubs loaning out their players. when we had him and Crouch on loan they basically promoted us, no body was moaning about the loan system then were they?

[Mello Yello 2,279]

I understand clearly the frustrations of the original poster....who is quite correct in their thoughts....

But, was anyone here initially complaining when the likes of Huckerby, Crouch - and lately Sibierski, Evans, Lita etc, all came on loan to Carrow Road....?

If we had the finances, and Cardiff due to their ''financial situation'' weren''t allowed to sign Bellamy - and yet we were fortunate he came to us on loan for a season - would we still be critics of the loan system?

Just a thought.....

 

[Mello Yello 2,279]

[quote user="ryan1992"]I believe that, yes, the loan system may be taken advantage of by these ''bigger'' clubs, but, We wouldnt have signed Hucks if it wasnt for these prem clubs loaning out their players. when we had him and Crouch on loan they basically promoted us, no body was moaning about the loan system then were they?[/quote]

Sorry, same opinion as yourself, I was typing mine when you posted yours.....I agree with your sentiments.

[morty 0]

[quote user="Mello Yello"]

I understand clearly the frustrations of the original poster....who is quite correct in their thoughts....

But, was anyone here initially complaining when the likes of Huckerby, Crouch - and lately Sibierski, Evans, Lita etc, all came on loan to Carrow Road....?

If we had the finances, and Cardiff due to their ''financial situation'' weren''t allowed to sign Bellamy - and yet we were fortunate he came to us on loan for a season - would we still be critics of the loan system?

Just a thought.....

 

[/quote]I agree with you.Who are you and what have you done with Mello Yello?

[Yellow Wal 314]

As I have been saying for a very long while now ..... spot on.

Let us remember the loan system was brought in to help the smaller clubs in times of emergency. It seems to be in place now to help only the richest clubs and to keep them rich. The smaller clubs, and that includes us, get very little, long term, from loans.

Two recent ''successful'' loans we have had were David Bentley and Fraser Forster.

Bentley was given exposure by us in the Premiership before moving on loan to Blackburn before subsequently making Arsenal a lot of money. And how many Premiership games did Bentley play for Arsenal? Not one!

As far as Fraser Forster is concerned, a goalkeeper who now cannot get a game anywhere, just ask yourself one question.

What was he worth before he was loaned to us and what was he worth when he returned to Newcastle (which has resulted in him not getting a team)?

[Mello Yello 2,279]

[quote user="morty"][quote user="Mello Yello"]

I understand clearly the frustrations of the original poster....who is quite correct in their thoughts....

But, was anyone here initially complaining when the likes of Huckerby, Crouch - and lately Sibierski, Evans, Lita etc, all came on loan to Carrow Road....?

If we had the finances, and Cardiff due to their ''financial situation'' weren''t allowed to sign Bellamy - and yet we were fortunate he came to us on loan for a season - would we still be critics of the loan system?

Just a thought.....

 

[/quote]

I agree with you.

Who are you and what have you done with Mello Yello?
[/quote]

I''ve found God....

...and it''s me....

 

Only joking, before certain individuals demand that I repent - or that I will burn in hell...

[Saint Canary 0]

[quote user="Mello Yello"]

I understand clearly the frustrations of the original poster....who is quite correct in their thoughts....

But, was anyone here initially complaining when the likes of Huckerby, Crouch - and lately Sibierski, Evans, Lita etc, all came on loan to Carrow Road....?

If we had the finances, and Cardiff due to their ''financial situation'' weren''t allowed to sign Bellamy - and yet we were fortunate he came to us on loan for a season - would we still be critics of the loan system?

Just a thought.....[/quote]

I think there is clearly a place in football for loans and in some cases like all three parties get something out of the deal.  In Huckerby''s case, Man City got his wages of their bill, plus £750k, we got a great player and Huckerby found a club he enjoyed his football with.  In Crouch''s case, we got a player we could never have afforded in normal circumstances, Villa got an improved player back and Crouch moved on later to somewhere he could get games.

Those deals are not the ones I am questioning though, what I am really questioning is whether it is right for the top clubs control most of the best young players with seemingly no limit on it.  To date Man City have 8 players out on loan, Arsenal 6, Chelsea 5 and Man Utd have 7.  That''s with 11 days still to go until the transfer window shuts and I forget when the loan window closes.

[Yellow Wal 314]

I think a lot of people cannot see the wood for the trees.

If the loan system was not in place at the time of Huckerby and Crouch those players would have been deemed as surplus to requirements at the clubs they were at. As a result of being loaned to us not only did it benefit us (short term) but it also revived both their careers and, as such, increased their values considerably.

Another question to ask yourself. If the loan system was not in place at that time how much would those two have been valued at? If we had identified them as players we wanted it may have been possible to buy them both for the price it cost us to get Hucks.

[Bethnal Yellow and Green 1,557]

It isn''t the loan system so much as the fact that clubs are wealthier and can afford more players, also as player value has increased the gains that can be made from coaching youth players has increased.

The flaws in you argument are that when we bought in Crook, Fox etc there was a loan system, just their respective clubs weren''t so wealthy and wanted the players off their wage bill. There are still players like this around but as player values have increased due to extra money in the system they don''t seem quite so much like bargins. Look at what Hodgson did at Fulham, he took a team largely constructed from other teams rejects or clever scouting and created a team that got to the Europa League final. Norwich, like Fulham last year, were a bit of an exception to the trend and profited from good management (on the field).

Also the increased scouting networks of clubs have meant that there are fewer and fewer talented players missed by Premier League teams, so it is unlikely a Bruce or Ian Wright will be missed again (although Smaling at Man U might provide a rare exception). Couple this with improved coaching levels and there are far more talented players around now than there were 10 to 20 years ago, if the big clubs didn''t big up and coach these players then they would probably never have made it as professional footballers.

And finally, top clubs have always had these big squads, just due to less media coverage and the fact players weren''t going out on loan we didn''t really know how many players were on their books.

Sometimes loans work, sometimes they don''t but I don''t think the entire system is flawed.

[Mello Yello 2,279]

[quote user="Saint Canary"][quote user="Mello Yello"]

I understand clearly the frustrations of the original poster....who is quite correct in their thoughts....

But, was anyone here initially complaining when the likes of Huckerby, Crouch - and lately Sibierski, Evans, Lita etc, all came on loan to Carrow Road....?

If we had the finances, and Cardiff due to their ''financial situation'' weren''t allowed to sign Bellamy - and yet we were fortunate he came to us on loan for a season - would we still be critics of the loan system?

Just a thought.....[/quote]

I think there is clearly a place in football for loans and in some cases like all three parties get something out of the deal.  In Huckerby''s case, Man City got his wages of their bill, plus £750k, we got a great player and Huckerby found a club he enjoyed his football with.  In Crouch''s case, we got a player we could never have afforded in normal circumstances, Villa got an improved player back and Crouch moved on later to somewhere he could get games.

Those deals are not the ones I am questioning though, what I am really questioning is whether it is right for the top clubs control most of the best young players with seemingly no limit on it.  To date Man City have 8 players out on loan, Arsenal 6, Chelsea 5 and Man Utd have 7.  That''s with 11 days still to go until the transfer window shuts and I forget when the loan window closes.

[/quote]

I''m not disputing any of any one''s concerns or opinions..... it''s just the way of football - and how the richer club will always benefit.

Huckerby was (and still is) a rarity in the whole loan situation....

We did benefit in the Championship from Ched Evans and Leroy Lita, they helped to keep us up but only delayed the inevitable....What are those two players doing now? Sibierski and a few others were costly mistake loans. Forster in the 1st division, was worth at least 14 points towards our promotion... Chris Martin? Would he be an even better player for us if he never went to Luton?

Anyone remember when that successful Liverpool club in the eighties bought and hoovered up any player of quality? The Liverpool reserve side would have more than held their own in that 1st Division....They did what was best for them to maintain their success in the 1st Division and in Europe. They had the money, they called all the shots - and had the finance and the coaching and backroom staff to maintain it.

Smaller clubs have always had to beg, steal or borrow - and sadly, nothing will ever change....

Big business, will always dump on smaller business.....

They are no different to the loan sharks, that will prey on desperate people....

[Yellow Wal 314]

Perhaps the frustrations of modern day football were too much for Steve Coppell, who has proved himself to be an accomplished manager.

His views on the loan system were recently reported as below. I cannot disagree with much there!

Loan system frustrates Bristol City boss Steve Coppell

Steve Coppell says football authorities should reform loans

Bristol City manager Steve Coppell has criticised the way the loan player system affects lower league clubs.

The Robins boss has made two permanent signings this summer but has so far resisted going into the loan market.

He told BBC Radio Bristol: "I think for Football League clubs you shouldn''t have loans - or they should be very, very restricted.

"I''m not a big fan of the system, but I do realise that is the game we have to play now - which is unfortunate."

He added: "These youngsters would have come anyway, for free. All the Championship clubs are just fattening lambs for slaughter.

"Talented youngsters - who can''t get a game in the Premier League club''s first team or reserves - are coming here, getting some real value added, then being sold on to Championship clubs at benefit to [the parent] clubs."

So far this summer City have signed Barnet winger Albert Adomah and Reading midfielder Kalifa Cisse.

[Saint Canary 0]

[quote user="Mello Yello"]

Smaller clubs have always had to beg, steal or borrow - and sadly, nothing will ever change....

Big business, will always dump on smaller business.....

[/quote]

I think sadly, you have hit the nail on the head here.  It seems the scraps that we are fed under the table from the big boys are getting more and more meager.

[Saint Canary 0]

[quote user="Bethnal Yellow and Green"]

It isn''t the loan system so much as the fact that clubs are wealthier and can afford more players, also as player value has increased the gains that can be made from coaching youth players has increased.

The flaws in you argument are that when we bought in Crook, Fox etc there was a loan system, just their respective clubs weren''t so wealthy and wanted the players off their wage bill. There are still players like this around but as player values have increased due to extra money in the system they don''t seem quite so much like bargins. Look at what Hodgson did at Fulham, he took a team largely constructed from other teams rejects or clever scouting and created a team that got to the Europa League final. Norwich, like Fulham last year, were a bit of an exception to the trend and profited from good management (on the field).

Also the increased scouting networks of clubs have meant that there are fewer and fewer talented players missed by Premier League teams, so it is unlikely a Bruce or Ian Wright will be missed again (although Smaling at Man U might provide a rare exception). Couple this with improved coaching levels and there are far more talented players around now than there were 10 to 20 years ago, if the big clubs didn''t big up and coach these players then they would probably never have made it as professional footballers.

And finally, top clubs have always had these big squads, just due to less media coverage and the fact players weren''t going out on loan we didn''t really know how many players were on their books.

Sometimes loans work, sometimes they don''t but I don''t think the entire system is flawed.

[/quote]

Of course the entire loan system isn''t flawed, that would be a ludicrous claim!  It''s football that''s flawed! 

[Old Shuck 183]

Lambert''s view of the loan market seems pretty clear, after all the players we have had coming in on loan over the last few years, we don''t, at the present time, have one!!

That must make us quite a rarity in the Championship and beyond, out of 72 clubs, I wonder just how many don''t have at least one player in on a loan basis?

Add to that the fact that quite a few Prem clubs will have some. We might, of course, get a couple in before the deadline, but, for now, its refreshing.

One player who we did get in on loan, several seasons ago, Kevin Cooper, from Wolves-surprised we never signed him permanently.

[I am a Banana 0]

With the power the top teams have and the amount of money they got through the champs league etc they are able to do this. The premierleague is not a good leagie for football as i have stated before [y]

[Legend Iwan 30]

I''ll play devil''s advocate with you SC,

What do you make of us sending out both Martin and Spillane to Luton - and before anyone comes out with the ''he wanted to get rid of them'' line no he didn''t it was make or break for them.

Also what about the idea Lambert has to loan our young keepers out for half a season?

I realise we''re obviously not on the same level as Man Utd etc loaning out 7 players, however, why shouldn''t these boys choose to learn their trade at one of the biggest clubs in the World or of the other top 6. At the end of the day they want the best career possible, as such they want to have the greatest opportunity to play at the highest level, so of course they will go to those big teams.

[Jim Smith 2,314]

The loan system is not completely flawed. There is definitely a place for it but what bugs me about the whole Bellamy thing is the level of subsidisation by Man City which appears to me to be pretty much unprecedented. I don''t care if its been commonplace for parent clubs to pay a percentage of the wages on loans in the past, subsidisation to that level by a parent club is wrong and is giving Cardiff a massive advantage.

If such loans are going to be allowed then the clubs loaning the players should have to fund the deal themsleves, if not completely then for the most part. Cardiff may well win the league this season but if Bellars plays a large part in it then frankly they will get little credit for it in my eyes because of the help they will have had.

[Saint Canary 0]

[quote user="Legend Iwan"]

I''ll play devil''s advocate with you SC,

What do you make of us sending out both Martin and Spillane to Luton - and before anyone comes out with the ''he wanted to get rid of them'' line no he didn''t it was make or break for them.

Also what about the idea Lambert has to loan our young keepers out for half a season?

I realise we''re obviously not on the same level as Man Utd etc loaning out 7 players, however, why shouldn''t these boys choose to learn their trade at one of the biggest clubs in the World or of the other top 6. At the end of the day they want the best career possible, as such they want to have the greatest opportunity to play at the highest level, so of course they will go to those big teams.

[/quote]

It''s an interesting question and I suppose that whatever my response, I am going to end up sounding hypocritical.  However, as I stated, I am not against the loan system, it has a valid place in football and can provide valuable experience for young players.  I do think you answered the question yourself though, there is a huge difference between loaning one or two players out for experience and sending out an entire 11 over the course of the year.  I am not advocating an end to the loan system, merely suggesting that top sides should be capped on how many young players they have.  If Man City can afford to send an entire team out on loan over the season while still being able to field full squads at reserve and the various youth levels, then they have too many players.

I am going to argue against myself here but I think they key reason for a lot of loans today was highlighted when Martin and Spillane went.  That reason is reserve team football, more importantly, a lack of it.  I supppose that has necessitated the need to send more players out, simply due to the small numbers of fixtures now.  A quick look at City''s reserve fixtures last season will tell you that from October 28th through to the 27th of January there were no games, that''s a problem, a big problem for reserve team footballers.

Despite that, I still don''t think it''s right that the top Premier League clubs have so many players and then use the Football League as a nursery.  Too much power and influence is controlled by an elite few. I guess at the end of the day though, that''s life and I have to come to terms with the fact that Football is business first, sport second.  Doesn''t mean I have to like it though :p Lol and I reserve my right to moan like a good ''un about it! 

[Saint Canary 0]

[quote user="Jim Smith"]

The loan system is not completely flawed. There is definitely a place for it but what bugs me about the whole Bellamy thing is the level of subsidisation by Man City which appears to me to be pretty much unprecedented. I don''t care if its been commonplace for parent clubs to pay a percentage of the wages on loans in the past, subsidisation to that level by a parent club is wrong and is giving Cardiff a massive advantage.

If such loans are going to be allowed then the clubs loaning the players should have to fund the deal themsleves, if not completely then for the most part. Cardiff may well win the league this season but if Bellars plays a large part in it then frankly they will get little credit for it in my eyes because of the help they will have had.

[/quote]

Cardiff will argue that''s it would be no different to when we won this League.  They would also argue that given the oppertunity, we would have ripped Man City''s hand off for it.

 

[king canary 7,578]

I can see the points on here but to say its killing football is just not true- the fact that the money is so unevenly dsitributed throughout the game is the big issue.To be honest if the loan system was scrapped I imagine all that would happen would be a major push by the Premiership teams to allow their B teams to play in the lower leagues as happens in Spain, which would be a disaster for the league.

[Jim Smith 2,314]

[quote user="Saint Canary"][quote user="Jim Smith"]

The loan system is not completely flawed. There is definitely a place for it but what bugs me about the whole Bellamy thing is the level of subsidisation by Man City which appears to me to be pretty much unprecedented. I don''t care if its been commonplace for parent clubs to pay a percentage of the wages on loans in the past, subsidisation to that level by a parent club is wrong and is giving Cardiff a massive advantage.

If such loans are going to be allowed then the clubs loaning the players should have to fund the deal themsleves, if not completely then for the most part. Cardiff may well win the league this season but if Bellars plays a large part in it then frankly they will get little credit for it in my eyes because of the help they will have had.

[/quote]

Cardiff will argue that''s it would be no different to when we won this League.  They would also argue that given the oppertunity, we would have ripped Man City''s hand off for it.

 

[/quote]

 

They would argue that and on the latter part they are right we would have. On the former there is a difference because when we got Hucks I am pretty sure we were paying his wages (or at least a large chunk of them). As I said it may have happened in the past, we may well have benefitted from it but that still doesn;t make it right.

[norfolkchance1 0]

I fully agree with initial poster, I think a way forward would be adding a clause to the Premier League rules about 25 players. Anyone outside the 25 players should be available for a free transfer. This would stop clubs stockpiling players excessively and make them use young players in the event of an injury crisis - hopefully helping the English game.

If nothing else it would make a club think twice about buying someone like Bellamy at the price they did if he wasn''t going to play a season later.

[Yellow Wal 314]

We do not appear t be the only people talking about the wonderful Loan system, it is being discussed on many forums around the football world. I particularly like this one from the Derby forum which sums a lot of it up for me and ''LeedsRam'' carries many of my sentiments.

Re: The Loan system

by LeedsRam Yesterday at 3:59 pm

Premier league scam in my opinion.

Put simplistically.

25 years ago:

John Smith plays for Liverpool. Can''t get a game. Wants to play. Liverpool can''t justify paying his wages because he will never play. 2nd division club buys him for £100,000.

Option A - Smith is great - helps 2nd division club progress and is sold on for big profit to a 1st division club.

Option B - Smith doesn''t cut it - moved on to 4th division club for small fee.

Winner is the 2nd division club in option A. In option B the 2nd division club takes a small hit. Liverpool make small profit.

Now:

John Smith plays for Liverpool. Can''t get a game. Wants to play. Liverpool don''t want to sell him for a small fee just in case he turns out to be good, but they don''t want to play him just in case he is not. Liverpool have 234 other players in a similair position because they bought an entire Romanian orphanage 15 years ago - just in case. Liverpool loan Smith to a Championship club. Championship club pays all/part of his wages. Liverpool watch Smith to see if he can cut it.

Option A - Smith is a revelation! Instead of being worth £100,000 he is now worth £1,000,000. Liverpool are the winners. His wages have been paid, his value has increased. The 2nd division club made progress on the pitch but now he has gone again. They are back to square one.

Option B - Smith is shit. Championship club get to watch a lemon on the pitch for the season. Smith''s value is still the same as he now has ''experience''. Winners are Liverpool.

The loan system enables premier league clubs to have 500 players on their books just on the off chance. In t''olden days the likes of Daniel Sturridge would have been playing in the 2nd division to cut his teeth and when ready would have moved for a large fee. Now he sits on the bench at Chelsea and could well be 30 before he actually plays 90 minutes of league football. I hate the premier league and the sooner it goes bust, taking greedy agents and players with it, the better.

Might have failed to convey exactly what I meant there, but I know what I meant and that is the main thing.

[John 0]

[quote user="Saint Canary"][quote user="Jim Smith"]

The loan system is not completely flawed. There is definitely a place for it but what bugs me about the whole Bellamy thing is the level of subsidisation by Man City which appears to me to be pretty much unprecedented. I don''t care if its been commonplace for parent clubs to pay a percentage of the wages on loans in the past, subsidisation to that level by a parent club is wrong and is giving Cardiff a massive advantage.

If such loans are going to be allowed then the clubs loaning the players should have to fund the deal themsleves, if not completely then for the most part. Cardiff may well win the league this season but if Bellars plays a large part in it then frankly they will get little credit for it in my eyes because of the help they will have had.

[/quote]

Cardiff will argue that''s it would be no different to when we won this League.  They would also argue that given the oppertunity, we would have ripped Man City''s hand off for it.

 

[/quote]One of the shortfall''s of that response would be that with Huckerby we made the loan permanent during our time in the Championship, paying every fee on the premise that we were no more than a Championship club at the time. Whereas Cardiff finances at the moment would dictate that making the transfer concerning Bellamy permanent whilst in the Championship is more than likely impossible. Therefore it would seem Manchester City are doing Cardiff a favour, and as far as the integrity of the competition is concerned, an unfair one at that. They''ve given him out in mind that if (or when) Bellamy gets Cardiff promoted, a permanent transfer may ensue.Of course we''d bite Manchester City''s hand off for it, so would anyone outside the Premier League. Our hunger for success in the game through any means necessary doesn''t mean it''s not in disrepute, but it''s enabling that hunger to act in any way it wants that is.

[John 0]

[quote user="John"][quote user="Saint Canary"][quote user="Jim Smith"]

The loan system is not completely flawed. There is definitely a place for it but what bugs me about the whole Bellamy thing is the level of subsidisation by Man City which appears to me to be pretty much unprecedented. I don''t care if its been commonplace for parent clubs to pay a percentage of the wages on loans in the past, subsidisation to that level by a parent club is wrong and is giving Cardiff a massive advantage.

If such loans are going to be allowed then the clubs loaning the players should have to fund the deal themsleves, if not completely then for the most part. Cardiff may well win the league this season but if Bellars plays a large part in it then frankly they will get little credit for it in my eyes because of the help they will have had.

[/quote]

Cardiff will argue that''s it would be no different to when we won this League.  They would also argue that given the oppertunity, we would have ripped Man City''s hand off for it.

 

[/quote]

Of course we''d bite Manchester City''s hand off for it, so would anyone outside the Premier League. Our hunger for success in the game through any means necessary doesn''t mean it''s in disrepute, but it''s enabling that hunger to act in any way it wants that is.[/quote]Sorry, got muddled up in my negatives there!

[pennywise 0]

[quote user="Mello Yello"]

I understand clearly the frustrations of the original poster....who is quite correct in their thoughts....

But, was anyone here initially complaining when the likes of Huckerby, Crouch - and lately Sibierski, Evans, Lita etc, all came on loan to Carrow Road....?

If we had the finances, and Cardiff due to their ''financial situation'' weren''t allowed to sign Bellamy - and yet we were fortunate he came to us on loan for a season - would we still be critics of the loan system?

Just a thought.....

 

[/quote]

i think the original poster was saying that in his younger days clubs like norwich didn''t have to rely on loans to players of this quality they would go and pick them up from the lower leagues or buy them from other clubs like spurs reserves ..but nowadays even lower half prem squads have to rely on loans to get decent quality in because the big clubs stockpile all the players [:D]

[Mister Chops 7]

[quote user="pennywise "][quote user="Mello Yello"]

I understand clearly the frustrations of the original poster....who is quite correct in their thoughts....

But, was anyone here initially complaining when the likes of Huckerby, Crouch - and lately Sibierski, Evans, Lita etc, all came on loan to Carrow Road....?

If we had the finances, and Cardiff due to their ''financial situation'' weren''t allowed to sign Bellamy - and yet we were fortunate he came to us on loan for a season - would we still be critics of the loan system?

Just a thought.....

 

[/quote]

i think the original poster was saying that in his younger days clubs like norwich didn''t have to rely on loans to players of this quality they would go and pick them up from the lower leagues or buy them from other clubs like spurs reserves ..but nowadays even lower half prem squads have to rely on loans to get decent quality in because the big clubs stockpile all the players [:D]

[/quote]Agreed, but how does this new "25 player squad rule" apply?  Can premier league clubs still have a squad of 60 and only include 25 in the squad, so basically paying 35 players for nothing, or do they all have to trim their squad sizes down?

[Mook 0]

[quote user="Mister Chops"]Agreed, but how does this new "25 player squad rule" apply?  Can premier league clubs still have a squad of 60 and only include 25 in the squad, so basically paying 35 players for nothing, or do they all have to trim their squad sizes down?[/quote]It certainly means that they can have a squad of 60 and pay 35 players for nothing BUT it means that they cannot have too many "stars" because the stars won''t accept not getting any game-time for 6 months (see: Bellamy, Santa Cruz).However, I think this might be even worse for clubs like us, because big clubs will hold closer on to their unpolished gems for fear of needing players in the event that they can''t sign the player they want during the next window.