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Carra_Rud

Demand getting lower or is it still the holiday effect

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[quote user="tom cavendish"]Tickets are too expensive and a lot of people working for the council and NHS are going to be made redundant.[/quote]A non sequitur (pronounced /ˌnɒnˈsɛkwɨtər/)

is a conversational and literary device, often used for comedic

purposes. It is a comment that, because of its apparent lack of meaning

relative to what it follows,[1] seems absurd to the point of being humorous or confusing, as in the following exchange:"Tickets are too expensive""Yeah,  and a lot of people working for the council and NHS are going to be made redundant."

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[quote user="Mister Chops"]I don''t understand this nonsense about "demand getting lower" as the crowd for Watford, on a Friday night and on Sky, still compared very favourably with any of last season''s crowds.  So where exactly is the problem?

[/quote]If you are talking about me saying demand is getting lower, then you are mistaken. I was asking IF the people on this forum, thought this was the reason for us not selling out against Watford, and more than likely Swansea. I''m not being negative, I am just surprised that we have not sold more tickets for Saturday''s game. Also, as I said, how many times last season did we offer the visiting supporters the chance to purchase tickets on the gates? All but a few home games last year, when visiting teams didn''t sell their tickets, we moved them over and sold them to City fans. I get the feeling this won''t happen very often this season, unless we stay near the top of the league.

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[quote user="Carra_Rud"][quote user="Mister Chops"]I don''t understand this nonsense about "demand getting lower" as the crowd for Watford, on a Friday night and on Sky, still compared very favourably with any of last season''s crowds.  So where exactly is the problem?

[/quote]If you are talking about me saying demand is getting lower, then you are mistaken. I was asking IF the people on this forum, thought this was the reason for us not selling out against Watford, and more than likely Swansea. I''m not being negative, I am just surprised that we have not sold more tickets for Saturday''s game. Also, as I said, how many times last season did we offer the visiting supporters the chance to purchase tickets on the gates? All but a few home games last year, when visiting teams didn''t sell their tickets, we moved them over and sold them to City fans. I get the feeling this won''t happen very often this season, unless we stay near the top of the league.[/quote]We sold more tickets for the Watford game than we did on average in the whole of last season, despite it being on a Friday night, on Sky, in the middle of the holiday season. So although your thread is titled "Demand getting lower or is it still the holiday effect?", and yet you aren''t saying that demand is lower, I would suggest that it''s the holiday season and we''re up in attendance numbers on last season despite tickets being anythgin up to 50% more expensive.

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[quote user="tom cavendish"]Tickets are too expensive and a lot of people working for the council and NHS are going to be made redundant.

Unless the extra setas are sold then they will be a waste of money and it would have been better to use the money to pay off debts.
[/quote]

I absolutely agree dont know how much we spent on getting these extra seats put in but it must have been a fair old sum. The worrying thing imo and I know it is contravercial is that this was done via fans complaining they could not get seats and we needed a 35000 capacity. These same fans either bought season tickets or now the club has done something about it are now not buying tickets. Because of our additional season tickets and extra corporate tickets due to being in the championship we now have less casual tickets on sale than we had last year. Unless we are in the top six ( or bottom 3 ) for the latter part of the season we will probably only sell out when the away end is full to capacity ( Leeds  Ipswich ). I really beleive that our true support ( includng away fans ) that come week in and week out is 24500 - 25500. I would have rather seen adult season ticket prices upped by £10 kids upped by £20 and no empty seats in FCR. Until we are an established premier league club 35000 crowds are a dream and building for that fanbase and it does not happen will be the final nail in our financial problems. It is pointless reducing the prices to fill these seats as we need to recoup the money that our cheaper than casual season tickets are costing us. If we are not careful our revenue from ticket sales will be less than last year with a much bigger capacity. Dont forget it is great that we have sold 20500 season tickets but each of these seats is getting a much lower income. Of course I realise the economics of supporting a football team but things have not changed that much since May. The casual ticket price has to be high to cover our subsidised season tickets, consequently most of this is being covered by away supporters.      

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[quote user="Lambert is King"]If we are not careful our revenue from ticket sales will be less than last year with a much bigger capacity. [/quote]You might need to explain that one to me.

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[quote user="Mister Chops"][quote user="Carra_Rud"][quote user="Mister Chops"]I don''t understand this nonsense about "demand getting lower" as the crowd for Watford, on a Friday night and on Sky, still compared very favourably with any of last season''s crowds.  So where exactly is the problem?


[/quote]

If you are talking about me saying demand is getting lower, then you are mistaken. I was asking IF the people on this forum, thought this was the reason for us not selling out against Watford, and more than likely Swansea.

I''m not being negative, I am just surprised that we have not sold more tickets for Saturday''s game. Also, as I said, how many times last season did we offer the visiting supporters the chance to purchase tickets on the gates? All but a few home games last year, when visiting teams didn''t sell their tickets, we moved them over and sold them to City fans. I get the feeling this won''t happen very often this season, unless we stay near the top of the league.
[/quote]

We sold more tickets for the Watford game than we did on average in the whole of last season, despite it being on a Friday night, on Sky, in the middle of the holiday season. So although your thread is titled "Demand getting lower or is it still the holiday effect?", and yet you aren''t saying that demand is lower, I would suggest that it''s the holiday season and we''re up in attendance numbers on last season despite tickets being anythgin up to 50% more expensive.

[/quote]

I am not sure this is correct as we now have 2500 more season ticket holders. These seats are sold to season ticketholders at £7 per match less than last year ( when sold to a casual  and if a child filled the new seat between £6 and £24. I reckon we only have the same amount of casual tickets on sale as last year at best. The one economic I can forsee is a hike in season ticket price next year or a reduced player budget.   

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[quote user="Mister Chops"][quote user="Lambert is King"]If we are not careful our revenue from ticket sales will be less than last year with a much bigger capacity. [/quote]

You might need to explain that one to me.

[/quote]

We now have 2500 more subsidied season tickets £20 per game for an adult and £3.50 for a child and are selling less caual tickets. I appreciate my sums might be wrong but I would think despite the higher prices we need to get gates in excess of 25500 to increase our revenue. I am not disagreeing that casual prices are to much I  am suggesting that season tickets especially kids ( and we have 2 of them ) are to cheap. I just think that this was the wrong time to increase the capacity. Doomcaster should have found this aditional space when we were in the premiership.  

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Last season the opening Col U game was attended by 25200, but after that, it wasn''t until October 24th at home to Swindon that we got more than 24300 - the attendance against Watford 2 weeks ago.

Even 2 years ago in the Champ, we only got more than 24300 on 1 occasion before we played scum in December.

Therefore it does seem early season games are low on attendances.  Families in particular suffer this time of year as taking kids on holiday, days out etc are pretty much spent out by now!

It takes time to slowly occupy the new seats...  give it a couple of seasons and they will be occupied I''m sure!  It''s a long-term investment and it will pay off in the long-term.  If it doesn''t, then we will all know not to waste multi-millions on a new tier for the City Stand!

 

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[quote user="tom cavendish"]Tickets are too expensive and a lot of people working for the council and NHS are going to be made redundant.

Unless the extra setas are sold then they will be a waste of money and it would have been better to use the money to pay off debts.
[/quote]

Hurrah - at least one poster has his head screwed on correctly!

Reason why loads of seats are up for grabs has bugger all to do with ....''the weather, holidays, harvesting, lethargy'' etc. Rather it has everything to do with the clubs hike in pricing policy which will backfire and alienate potential customers.

As for ....''paying off debts'' Tom, thats almost heresy to suggest such a common sense strategy. You should realise that we don''t have a ''debt'' it''s just a ''mortgage''. Thing is this ''mortage'' started off at £15M in 2003 and is now c£23M. Strange - I thought the whole principle of a ''mortgage'' was that it would decrease with time, not increase by 50% in 6 or 7 years. I''m clearly out of touch with these things despite being a qualified financial adviser!!      

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If the club are seeking to use various measures to increase income, one of those measures should be to not allow any supporters to bring into the stadium their own food or liquid refreshments.....

I don''t understand why they haven''t yet enforced or implemented this measure?

 

 

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[quote user="thirdlion"]Holiday, and lack of momentum. Give us a few home wins on the trot and people will come in.
[/quote]

I dont think it is the holiday effect as season ticket holders will be counted whether they are there or not.

I think its the matchday prices which some pople just can''t afford now.

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[quote user="tom cavendish"]Tickets are too expensive and a lot of people working for the council and NHS are going to be made redundant.

Unless the extra setas are sold then they will be a waste of money and it would have been better to use the money to pay off debts.
[/quote]

Tom I totally agree with you. The last Board went into the matter in considerable detail and came to the conclusion that there was nothing to be gained with more seats until the Club was promotred to the Premier League and then the answer was the build a second tier on to the City Stand which would accomodate 8,000 fans.The  money spend on Market research to come to this conclusion was thus completely wasted presumably because the conclusion did not suit Delia.

The money would have been better spent on revolving advertisement boards around the ground which would have been a source of instant revenue but again this did not suit Delia and the proposal was thrown out..I said in another thread there are so many ways to make money at Carrow but for the vested interests........and before someone says what then   .... why not a medical centre for, "sports " injuries, advertising between the goal posts at half time, advertising jingles over the loud speakers, snacks being sold by vendors with trays walking round the ground and up and down the aisles, a golf driving range in the evenings over the pitch, a petrol filling station on the ring road on the corner by the Holiday Inn.......truely the list is endless.

 

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[quote user="Mello Yello"]

If the club are seeking to use various measures to increase income, one of those measures should be to not allow any supporters to bring into the stadium their own food or liquid refreshments.....

I don''t understand why they haven''t yet enforced or implemented this measure?

 

 

[/quote]

That is total rubbish Mello..... you would do well living in a police state...... if there is an answer to fans bringing their own food it is to provide better food. cheaper than the fans can get at home. Soggy pies served in a bit of not very clean paper no way compares with the food in my house!

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[quote user="morty"]Actually, to be fair, the pies at CR are very nice.
[/quote]

It depends upon your standards Morty.... a good pie is one that comes from the pork shop outside Blickling Hall.

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[quote user="Bobert"]

[quote user="morty"]Actually, to be fair, the pies at CR are very nice.[/quote]

It depends upon your standards Morty.... a good pie is one that comes from the pork shop outside Blickling Hall.

[/quote]Well excuuuuuuse me Mister la-di-dah.Some of us who go to football are still working class, you know.[;)]

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I shall respond with a simple four letter word, c**t. Actually there''s no need for the asterisks, the word is COST. Casual ticket prices are exorbitant and so the only top priced matches that are likely to sell out are Leeds and Ipswich.

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[quote user="Bobert"][quote user="Mello Yello"]

If the club are seeking to use various measures to increase income, one of those measures should be to not allow any supporters to bring into the stadium their own food or liquid refreshments.....

I don''t understand why they haven''t yet enforced or implemented this measure?

 

 

[/quote]

That is total rubbish Mello..... you would do well living in a police state...... if there is an answer to fans bringing their own food it is to provide better food. cheaper than the fans can get at home. Soggy pies served in a bit of not very clean paper no way compares with the food in my house!

[/quote]

It''s not rubbish and is certainly nothing to do with a police state at all - that''s you just being silly.... 

There are many places of public entertainment that won''t allow you to bring in and consume your own food and drink....

Apart from the sneaky odd hip-flask, I don''t see any fans bringing in six-packs of Fosters or Stella, various plastic bottles of cider or boxes of wine - and swigging them at half-time in the refreshment concourses. Why''s that? Other folk are drinking club purchased booze....so why therefore, are you not be allowed to bring in and consume your own booze? Who enforces that rule?

Don''t say that''s because they could be used as missiles and thrown onto the pitch or at the opposition fans....A plastic beer bottle filled with tap water and smuggled back into the stands can do as much damage as a burglar''s cosh...

If the club desperately require extra revenue, then that revenue could be accrued by more people purchasing liquid and edible refreshment from within the stadium....And if the quality, choice, variety and price is acceptable, then people will pay for it....

Hartlepool away, was a great example of quality, variety, value and acceptable cost inside a stadium....

Why don''t people purchase their refreshments in the stadium? Poor quality and too expensive? Too long waiting in the queue?

Why allow Burger vans etc, to set up their mobile pitches on club land and property? How much of the money of the burger vans pitch costs is given to the club? Does that burger van pitch cost outweigh the money that would be made for the club by NCFC, selling the equivalent amount of burgers etc, inside the stadium?

This isn''t rubbish, but where the club should be looking....(and it''s nothing to do with a Police state)....

 

 

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the tickets are stupidly priced.if someones paying over the odds for a ticket are they then going to buy a programe or food in the refreshment stands? the club are doing themselves out of match day residual cash by charging more for the tickets.id happily fork out £3 for a pint of gas if the ticket was £23 or £24.id be interested in seeing figures of how sales of programmes/refreshements and match day club shop purchases are doing after 10 games with the current ticket prices.

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[quote user="jas the barclay king"]the tickets are stupidly priced.if someones paying over the odds for a ticket are they then going to buy a programe or food in the refreshment stands? the club are doing themselves out of match day residual cash by charging more for the tickets.id happily fork out £3 for a pint of gas if the ticket was £23 or £24.id be interested in seeing figures of how sales of programmes/refreshements and match day club shop purchases are doing after 10 games with the current ticket prices.

[/quote]You make a very good point about matchday spend in the ground. People will still go to games if they are charged upwards of £30 for a ticket, however, they are likely to spend less when around(programme/clubshop) and inside the stadium.Not sure what the average take is for the above on a matchday, but I would hazard a guess it will be considerably less than last season.

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So how come there were very few moans about an "A" minimum price for members of £25 in a lower league last season, yet £27 for the same bracket this season is "exhorbitant"?? 

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A lot of people keep saying how ridiculosuly cheap our season tickets are..but are they? I know my friends who are Nottingham Forest season ticket holders, say compared to thier season and casual tickets, ours our more expensive and this was after they nearly reached the Premiership whilst we were getting out of league 1.

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Finally.... the silent majority are starting to question the cynical season ticket/casual ticket rip off.........By buying Delia''s dream.... you are now feeling the pain.  It''s all been a slowly festering scam.

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"it''s the economy stupid" - who said that? was it clinton?

anyway, Norwich as weathered the economic storm better than many places but it''s not immune and unemployment is getting worse. add to the mix holiday season and more expensive and frankly too expensive tickets in the championship and it''s not surprising we''re seeing a fall in demand.

someone said it''s a false economy to fill up the stadium with cheap tickets, but is it right to have half a stadium of expensive tickets? i know which i (and lamber and the players) would rather have.

it''s like taxation - where generally it is having fewer people paying higher taxes that is seen s the false economy, not lots of people paying lower taxes than (i.e. a full stadium of cheaper seats).

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oh dear, look at all the typos in there - sorry!

i blame this silly miniature wireless keyboard that came with my cheap computer. acer revo anyone?

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[quote user="morty"][quote user="Bobert"]

[quote user="morty"]Actually, to be fair, the pies at CR are very nice.
[/quote]

It depends upon your standards Morty.... a good pie is one that comes from the pork shop outside Blickling Hall.

[/quote]

Well excuuuuuuse me Mister la-di-dah.

Some of us who go to football are still working class, you know.

[;)]
[/quote]

You know I never thought of pies as being upper class or working class. I only see pies as being good or bad. As I have never seen Delia eating a Carrow Road pie, or them being served in the Gunn Club, or any one buying them to take home for their tea one has to assume that the Barclay pie is not a very good pie and I am surprised, Morty, that you do not aspire to a good, or upper class, pie.

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[quote user="Mr.Carrow"]So how come there were very few moans about an "A" minimum price for members of £25 in a lower league last season, yet £27 for the same bracket this season is "exhorbitant"?? [/quote]

you keep on about £27 like a bloody  parrot .. they are £29 .. i''m a supermember and was told £29 [:D]

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In a few weeks and the Holiday time will be a thing of the past.....Then we can discuss our attendances and prices....

 

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It''s the local cricket driving down attendances I tell you,Since someone has decided that football is now a summer sport there are thousands (ok hundreds...ok a few) of us still playing our national summer game for another 2 weeks. My side has 4 season ticket members, all of whom will be missing from CR this afternoon unless it rains....Bet it pours down at 15:30 so we get neither..

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