Nelson and R.Martin

[TIL 1010 4,722]

[quote user="urdie_Canary"]Fisrtly, i dont think either of these players were good last season, especially russel martin, who i think is the worst right back we''ve had at the club.

The first goal Nelson is way to sluggish, the 3rd goal russel martin got sucked in, lack of consentration and out of position completly.
Also neither of these two are ''footballers'', there distrobution is awful and there vision is blinkered.

I personally feel that Ward, (who is a good Championship defender as proven in the passed) just needs games

In a nut shell, i think Russel Martin should be shot, and Nelson dropped as they''re both out of their depth.

What do you think ?
[/quote]

Martin "the worst right back we''ve had at the club".

Maybe you are too young to remember a certain Mr.Diop.

[grantroederdisaster 0]

[quote user="Menzies Campbell"]Russell Martin was comfortably our worst player last night and looked out of his depth even last season. I love lambert to bits, but I don''t get it with this bloke.[/quote]

 

B ollocks!

 

Russell Martin was not our worst player last night, in reality he done OK for most of the game. He didn''t look out of his depth last season, christ sake he played well over 20 games for a team that won the League by 9 clear points. The only Norwich player who was out of his depth last season was Adeyemi in the Huddersfield home game and Lambert saw this and subbed him at half time!

[Yelloow Since 72 54]

Having read through all this I feel it sums up NCFC supporters. IMO, Martin is a capable but not outstanding RB. I disagreed with Lambert letting Doherty go, but I''m not prepared to dismiss him after his first league match. I do have some concern about both Spillane and Stephens moving on when the sitauation is still uncertain, but it''s not enough for me to say Lambert must go!

Given the defensive sloppiness in the first half, I appreciated the fight back and hope that is an indication for the future. 14th in the table with more matches to come this week-end is notan impossible situation to me. I think that a mid-table finish would be fine this year and anything better than that would be a bonus. OTBC!

[Canary02 IV 0]

Russell Martin was one of our best players last night. His biggest problem seems to be that he''s not a "sexy" full back and there''s nothing outstanding about his game, so he''s an easy target for anyone looking for a scapegoat. He is competent in every area though and like Drury he produces a 7/10 every game. Typical knee-jerk responses because we lost from the usual suspects. Anybody ever heard of patience? I''m not a huge fan of Nelson and he wasn''t good last night but the biggest problem wasn''t any individual player, just that the keeper, centre halves and midfield anchor have no understanding as yet and that will only come with time. Or we could all scream and shout at Delia to get her chequebook out and replace the lot because obviously after one defeat they''re all individually the worst players we''ve ever had.

[Yelloow Since 72 54]

''him'' is Ward, of course!

[Sooty57 403]

About 10 mins before the end of the game the guy I sit next to received a text from a Spurs supporting friend who was watching on sky........

"Your keeper has played for 13 teams, and you can see why.

Your two central defenders aren''t good enough to play in the Championship.

Hoolahan is class as long as he doesn''t try to make a long pass"

On last night''s performance, I think he was just about spot on!

[Tony Moore 0]

I''m always amused by the level of scapegoating that goes on, on here. Last season I thought Russell Martin was a real weak link, but this season (based on Newcastle and Watford) I thought he had made real improvement. Admittedly he''s no earth-shaker but sure as hell he was much better than many of his colleagues last night.

It does seem that sine The Doc has left we need to find a new scapegoat and that person is,,,,,,,,Russell Martin.

I''ve never really understood that mentality, especially when the target is often much better than is given credit for.

Just look at last night......Ward and Martin made more mistakes in that one game than The Doc did in the past 3-4 seasons.

I really hope R. Martin survives this villification....perhaps then somone more deserving will be targetted.

Tony Moore

[urdie_Canary 33]

[quote user="Tony Moore"]I''m always amused by the level of scapegoating that goes on, on here. Last season I thought Russell Martin was a real weak link, but this season (based on Newcastle and Watford) I thought he had made real improvement. Admittedly he''s no earth-shaker but sure as hell he was much better than many of his colleagues last night.

It does seem that sine The Doc has left we need to find a new scapegoat and that person is,,,,,,,,Russell Martin.

I''ve never really understood that mentality, especially when the target is often much better than is given credit for.

Just look at last night......Ward and Martin made more mistakes in that one game than The Doc did in the past 3-4 seasons.

I really hope R. Martin survives this villification....perhaps then somone more deserving will be targetted.

Tony Moore[/quote]signing your post with your name though.

[Plastic Scouser 0]

[quote user="Reckoner"]Personally, i felt that Martin was actually making some good runs up the right flank, but unfortunately when he got the ball he passed it straight to the opposition most of the time (although i do remember a few good crosses from him). Michael Nelson was infuriating because he kept on hoofing the ball when there was no Watford player within 30 yards of him. I mean come on, even the Doc could string at least two passes together in a game!But to be fair, no-one really covered themselves in glory last night. Oh well, things can only get better... in theory [;)] [/quote]Yep, he made some "great" runs up the right flank but unfortunately he couldn''t hit a barn door at 2ft with his passes - yep, had a really great night didn''t he?!!!Sorry folks but I''ve got to come down on the side of the OP...Martin was rubbish, Nelson not much better - they were like rabbits in headlights every time Watford came at them - just hope it was first night nerves..

[Mook 0]

Worst right back ever, brilliant! I wish I was 7 and only started going to matches halfway last season. Then I wouldn''t be able to remember Otsemobor, Sutch, Pape Diop, Omozusi, Hughes, Keith Briggs and countless more that my memory has erased.Martin''s unspectular and workmanlike. He played some poor passes and some good ones. He gets forward well and isn''t afraid to take the ball. This blaming an entire team''s performance on one player (or two) is just silly. With some defensive organisation, both him & Nelson will look much better players.

[Hairy Canary 668]

Sorry guys but I dont feel he had a good game either. Some good things particularly getting himself into spance and prompting the forward moves but his job is to defend and he didn''t have a good day. The winger got behind him a number of times especially in the first half, and he was way out of position for the third goal, getting in Nelson''s way and nowhere near the wide man.

Still it was only the first game and several players have a lot of improving to do, Shuman and Jackson for a start.

No way is he the worst right back we have ever had but he''s no better than average. IMO anyway

[Jim Smith 2,314]

Its not scapegoating. I have nothing against Martin and Nelson and in fact think they are probably both good blokes with decent attitudes. I have no problem with having either of them as back up. I just don''t think either are good enough to play for my team in the championship if we want to have a good season and if they play regularly for us this season I think we will probably get relegated because defensively they are not good enough and Nelson is morbidly slow and can''t pass.

Is it not possible to express an opinion that a player is not good enough without being accused of scapegoating? Also the fact a player is "ok" or  "better than Otsemabor" does not make them good enough to take our club on to the next level.

Those proclaiming how good Martin was last season also appear to have conveniently forgotten he was dropped for Spillane towards the end of the season because of his sloppy displays. He was not good enough for the worst team in the championship last season and he''s not good enough for us if we want to be serious about pushing on. 

[lincoln canary (& Golden Coppel) 0]

Its obvious that people watching the tele generate different views from the people actually at the game so before i start my rant i will confirm i watched the game on sky.

Firstly all the pre-game hype about us was a bad thing that cleary worked in firing watford up.

To the game and the to the point of this thread. Firstly R. Martin is without doubt no way near championship standard. Im very dissapointed in Lambert as i thought he had good judgement but if he continues to play R. Martin then this judgement will seriously get questioned. The guy cannot pass, he barely tackles, has poor positional sense, gets forward but does nothing with it he simply is not good enough.

As for Nelson he can compete in this division but he cleary needs someone next to him with pace which Ward has not. Someone who can allow nelson to follow his marker put the tackles in and do the dirty work whilst knowing a pacy centre half can sweep up behind him.

[GJP 79]

[quote user="Jim Smith"]

 

Those proclaiming how good Martin was last season also appear to have conveniently forgotten he was dropped for Spillane towards the end of the season because of his sloppy displays. He was not good enough for the worst team in the championship last season and he''s not good enough for us if we want to be serious about pushing on. 

[/quote]

Just like those who have conveniently forgotten that Russell Martin picked up a knock towards the end of the season?

He''s a better football and a better defender than Spillane and, given the choice between the two, Lambert has got it spot on as to who is of more use to Norwich City.

 

[Jim Smith 2,314]

[quote user="GJP"][quote user="Jim Smith"]

 

Those proclaiming how good Martin was last season also appear to have conveniently forgotten he was dropped for Spillane towards the end of the season because of his sloppy displays. He was not good enough for the worst team in the championship last season and he''s not good enough for us if we want to be serious about pushing on. 

[/quote]

Just like those who have conveniently forgotten that Russell Martin picked up a knock towards the end of the season?

He''s a better football and a better defender than Spillane and, given the choice between the two, Lambert has got it spot on as to who is of more use to Norwich City.

 

[/quote]

 

Football is all about opinions and we are all entitled to our own but for what its worth i couldn''t possibley disagree more. Lambert''s faith in R. Martin and belief that M. Nelson is in any way adequate to play at this level for me cast the first question marks over his judgment (although he is still overwhelmingly in credit and i do have faith in him to ultimately get it right).

I think people have rose tinted glasses on when it comes to Martin because he does not make such obvious errors as Otsemabor made and he looks quite good on the ball going forward.

I guess we will see in the next couple of weeks because Lambert is usually not slow to react in situations like this and it would not surprise me to see a defender come in on loan pretty quickly. I will also be delighted and will hold my hands up if Martin or Nelson prove me wrong as I have nothing against either player!

[GJP 79]

[quote user="Jim Smith"][quote user="GJP"][quote user="Jim Smith"]

 

Those proclaiming how good Martin was last season also appear to have conveniently forgotten he was dropped for Spillane towards the end of the season because of his sloppy displays. He was not good enough for the worst team in the championship last season and he''s not good enough for us if we want to be serious about pushing on. 

[/quote]

Just like those who have conveniently forgotten that Russell Martin picked up a knock towards the end of the season?

He''s a better football and a better defender than Spillane and, given the choice between the two, Lambert has got it spot on as to who is of more use to Norwich City.

 

[/quote]

 

Football is all about opinions and we are all entitled to our own but for what its worth i couldn''t possibley disagree more. Lambert''s faith in R. Martin and belief that M. Nelson is in any way adequate to play at this level for me cast the first question marks over his judgment (although he is still overwhelmingly in credit and i do have faith in him to ultimately get it right).

I think people have rose tinted glasses on when it comes to Martin because he does not make such obvious errors as Otsemabor made and he looks quite good on the ball going forward.

I guess we will see in the next couple of weeks because Lambert is usually not slow to react in situations like this and it would not surprise me to see a defender come in on loan pretty quickly. I will also be delighted and will hold my hands up if Martin or Nelson prove me wrong as I have nothing against either player!

[/quote]

I would say that the decision to cut loose Doherty but stick with Nelson looks to have been a poor one. Infact I don''t think we''ve seen anything yet to suggest we have got a better defender than the Doc on the books.

As for Russell Martin, I had my doubts about him initially but I think he settled down pretty well last season and did enough to deserve a shot at this level. He had a hard job against Watford because he often didn''t have a man (such as Crofts) infront of him yet he still came out of the game looking one of the better parts of the defence (alongside Adam Drury).

Whether or not he''s up to it in the long run remins to be seen but is he a better bet than the overrated and very limited Spillane? For sure.

 

[thirdlion 0]

People have rose tinted glasses for Martin, because he''s not as error prone as Otsemobor, but they don''t have rose tinted glasses on for Spillane?

[Jim Smith 2,314]

[quote user="thirdlion"]People have rose tinted glasses for Martin, because he''s not as error prone as Otsemobor, but they don''t have rose tinted glasses on for Spillane?
[/quote]

 

Yes ok they quite probably do but from where i have been sitting Spillane looked to me to have more potential hence i was disappointed he was let go without us having brought in any new players in the RB area, regardless of my views on Martin. I honestly felt that before his injury Spillane was starting to settle in to that right back slot last season and was starting to turn in some impressive performances. We will have to see how he does at Brentford but it would not surprise me if, given a run in the team, he turns in some impressive displays and at some point attracts interest from clubs at champ level or above.