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William Darby

Fans' Parliament

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I just came across this that goes on a Wolves.

"Wolverhampton Wanderers'' supporters are able to put themselves forward for selection to the Fans'' Parliament which sits for two year periods at a time. The initiative, implemented

in 2006, invites 35 independently-selected candidates to attend meetings

at Molineux every two months. Meetings are usually attended by CEO Jez Moxey, alongside a variety of other club personnel"

There was a good discussion going on a day or two back about consultation and our club. I looked on their Offy and they publish minutes of each meeting and every person who attends has an e-mail address for contact.

Any thoughts?

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[quote user="ſilly ſauſage"][quote user="morty"]Don''t the NCISA more or less do this anyway?[/quote]Dunno, do they meet with club officials every two months? [/quote]I think they meet up. And if they have any issues they need addressing they know the right people to contact.

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[quote user="morty"][quote user="ſilly ſauſage"][quote user="morty"]Don''t the NCISA more or less do this anyway?[/quote]Dunno, do they meet with club officials every two months? [/quote]I think they meet up. And if they have any issues they need addressing they know the right people to contact.

[/quote]Put it this way,  if the NCISA did something similar to this.  35 members each representing a certain demograph of City''s fans.  And was allowed to meet the club bi-monthly etc etc.  They''d get a s*** load more members.

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[quote user="ſilly ſauſage"][quote user="morty"][quote user="ſilly ſauſage"][quote user="morty"]Don''t the NCISA more or less do this anyway?[/quote]Dunno, do they meet with club officials every two months? [/quote]I think they meet up. And if they have any issues they need addressing they know the right people to contact.

[/quote]Put it this way,  if the NCISA did something similar to this.  35 members each representing a certain demograph of City''s fans.  And was allowed to meet the club bi-monthly etc etc.  They''d get a s*** load more members.[/quote]If I''m honest, its a lovely cuddly idea, but I doubt you''d get much sense out of something like this. Can you imagine taking 35 people off this forum and doing it?Chaos!

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[quote user="ſilly ſauſage"]I just came across this that goes on a Wolves.

"Wolverhampton Wanderers'' supporters are able to put themselves forward for selection to the Fans'' Parliament which sits for two year periods at a time. The initiative, implemented

in 2006, invites 35 independently-selected candidates to attend meetings

at Molineux every two months. Meetings are usually attended by CEO Jez Moxey, alongside a variety of other club personnel"

There was a good discussion going on a day or two back about consultation and our club. I looked on their Offy and they publish minutes of each meeting and every person who attends has an e-mail address for contact.

Any thoughts?

[/quote]---Afraid this will be a reply/comment on an interesting post from filly faufage that takes a while to get to its point.

Firstly, football clubs are not democracies. No-one should be under any illusions about that, Directors don''t generally

dance to the fans'' tune. Unless it suits them. And what directors

categorise as consultation normally isn''t. For example, webchats and

public forums (which is all we now have with NCFC) are not really

consultative at all. They are ways in which stock replies can be given

(and difficult questions avoided) and titbits of information dolled out.

Genuine consultation - meaning a real chance to influence or change

minds - requires the opportunity to put forward a fact-based argument

and hammer away at it. We had that with the SCG and its working groups.

The problems with the SCG were two-fold. One, it was sometimes allowed

to stray on to on-field topics. Secondly, and more importantly, its lay

members were selected by the club, allowing them to be categorised as

club stooges. Those basic flaws made it easy to scrap the SCG and its

working groups when the answer was to reform it/them.

When, more than a year ago, the question arose of whether to reform or

disband the SCG, I looked at the Wolves parliament that filly mentions.

Its obvious advantage over the SCG was that its members, unless we have

both got this wrong, were elected by their own organisations rather than

being selected by the club. So they could rightly claim to be

independent.

However when one studied the minutes pretty much every discussion ended

with something on the line of: "The club''s representative said the

directors would take the fans'' views into account when making a

decision..."

Hardly surprising. As I said at the the outset, football clubs are not

democracies. But something like the Wolves parliament (with fewer member

than 35, I think) would be preferable to what we have now (which

effectively is nothing). If, that is, the club has any interest in the

view of fans. Which it says it does. Whether it truly does is a

question. But it says it does. If it doesn''t then best to give up the pretence.

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[quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="ſilly ſauſage"]I just came across this that goes on a Wolves.


"Wolverhampton Wanderers'' supporters are able to put themselves forward for selection to the Fans'' Parliament which sits for two year periods at a time. The initiative, implemented in 2006, invites 35 independently-selected candidates to attend meetings at Molineux every two months. Meetings are usually attended by CEO Jez Moxey, alongside a variety of other club personnel"


There was a good discussion going on a day or two back about consultation and our club. I looked on their Offy and they publish minutes of each meeting and every person who attends has an e-mail address for contact.


Any thoughts?


[/quote]

---

Afraid this will be a reply/comment on an interesting post from filly faufage that takes a while to get to its point.

Firstly, football clubs are not democracies. No-one should be under any illusions about that, Directors don''t generally dance to the fans'' tune. Unless it suits them. And what directors categorise as consultation normally isn''t. For example, webchats and public forums (which is all we now have with NCFC) are not really consultative at all. They are ways in which stock replies can be given (and difficult questions avoided) and titbits of information dolled out.

Genuine consultation - meaning a real chance to influence or change minds - requires the opportunity to put forward a fact-based argument and hammer away at it. We had that with the SCG and its working groups. The problems with the SCG were two-fold. One, it was sometimes allowed to stray on to on-field topics. Secondly, and more importantly, its lay members were selected by the club, allowing them to be categorised as club stooges. Those basic flaws made it easy to scrap the SCG and its working groups when the answer was to reform it/them.

When, more than a year ago, the question arose of whether to reform or disband the SCG, I looked at the Wolves parliament that filly mentions. Its obvious advantage over the SCG was that its members, unless we have both got this wrong, were elected by their own organisations rather than being selected by the club. So they could rightly claim to be independent.

However when one studied the minutes pretty much every discussion ended with something on the line of: "The club''s representative said the directors would take the fans'' views into account when making a decision..."

Hardly surprising. As I said at the the outset, football clubs are not democracies. But something like the Wolves parliament (with fewer member than 35, I think) would be preferable to what we have now (which effectively is nothing). If, that is, the club has any interest in the view of fans. Which it says it does. Whether it truly does is a question. But it says it does. If it doesn''t then best to give up the pretence.


[/quote]

Just to add that from the outset of the SCG i continually expressed my view that members should be elected as opposed to selected and serve a fixed term of office.Also the lack of a constitution made your points Purple all the more relevant.My views fell on deaf ears as far as Neil Doncaster and Roger Munby were concerned and also with a few of the selected members.A call to Joe Ferrari will back up what i am saying because i had many,many chats with him over the issue during my time as an SCG member.

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[quote user="Mello Yello"]Will those appointed, be allowed to fiddle their expenses?[/quote]

The term is "expense there appointed fiddle"

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It''ll be the same old bunch of self-important busy bodies manoevering to be the most important-est within their closeted paperclip world.Parliament my arse.

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[quote user="Cluck"]It''ll be the same old bunch of self-important busy bodies manoevering to be the most important-est within their closeted paperclip world.

Parliament my arse.
[/quote]

Parliament from the French Parlement or Parle to speak.

Therefore Cluch Parliament my arse is correct for you "To speak from my arse"[:D]

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I guarantee there would be a few ''crawly bum licks'' with a vested ''business interest''......Or even some ''feathery nesty cosy up to clubby'' individuals, who would be clambering over one another, screaming...."ME! ME! ME!"

I think it should be called, the SCG.....Mk2

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[quote user="The Butler"]

[quote user="Cluck"]It''ll be the same old bunch of self-important busy bodies manoevering to be the most important-est within their closeted paperclip world.Parliament my arse.[/quote]

Parliament from the French Parlement or Parle to speak.

Therefore Cluch Parliament my arse is correct for you "To speak from my arse"[:D]

[/quote]I have returned from a well earned extended break with a determination not to agitate nor denegrate my fellow City supporters... no matter what provocation comes my way.

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[quote user="Cluck"][quote user="The Butler"]

[quote user="Cluck"]It''ll be the same old bunch of self-important busy bodies manoevering to be the most important-est within their closeted paperclip world.

Parliament my arse.
[/quote]

Parliament from the French Parlement or Parle to speak.

Therefore Cluch Parliament my arse is correct for you "To speak from my arse"[:D]

[/quote]

I have returned from a well earned extended break with a determination not to agitate nor denegrate my fellow City supporters... no matter what provocation comes my way.
[/quote]

And there i was thinking this forum was about to get interesting...[;)]

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[quote user="Cluck"]I have returned from a well earned extended break with a determination not to agitate nor denegrate my fellow City supporters... no matter what provocation comes my way.[/quote]Best you keep your beak clean whilst you''re on parole then Cluck![;)]

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[quote user="TIL 1010"][quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="ſilly ſauſage"]I just came across this that goes on a Wolves.

"Wolverhampton Wanderers'' supporters are able to put themselves forward for selection to the Fans'' Parliament which sits for two year periods at a time. The initiative, implemented in 2006, invites 35 independently-selected candidates to attend meetings at Molineux every two months. Meetings are usually attended by CEO Jez Moxey, alongside a variety of other club personnel"

There was a good discussion going on a day or two back about consultation and our club. I looked on their Offy and they publish minutes of each meeting and every person who attends has an e-mail address for contact.

Any thoughts?

[/quote]---Afraid this will be a reply/comment on an interesting post from filly faufage that takes a while to get to its point.Firstly, football clubs are not democracies. No-one should be under any illusions about that, Directors don''t generally dance to the fans'' tune. Unless it suits them. And what directors categorise as consultation normally isn''t. For example, webchats and public forums (which is all we now have with NCFC) are not really consultative at all. They are ways in which stock replies can be given (and difficult questions avoided) and titbits of information dolled out.Genuine consultation - meaning a real chance to influence or change minds - requires the opportunity to put forward a fact-based argument and hammer away at it. We had that with the SCG and its working groups. The problems with the SCG were two-fold. One, it was sometimes allowed to stray on to on-field topics. Secondly, and more importantly, its lay members were selected by the club, allowing them to be categorised as club stooges. Those basic flaws made it easy to scrap the SCG and its working groups when the answer was to reform it/them.When, more than a year ago, the question arose of whether to reform or disband the SCG, I looked at the Wolves parliament that filly mentions. Its obvious advantage over the SCG was that its members, unless we have both got this wrong, were elected by their own organisations rather than being selected by the club. So they could rightly claim to be independent.However when one studied the minutes pretty much every discussion ended with something on the line of: "The club''s representative said the directors would take the fans'' views into account when making a decision..."Hardly surprising. As I said at the the outset, football clubs are not democracies. But something like the Wolves parliament (with fewer member than 35, I think) would be preferable to what we have now (which effectively is nothing). If, that is, the club has any interest in the view of fans. Which it says it does. Whether it truly does is a question. But it says it does. If it doesn''t then best to give up the pretence.

[/quote]

Just to add that from the outset of the SCG i continually expressed my view that members should be elected as opposed to selected and serve a fixed term of office.Also the lack of a constitution made your points Purple all the more relevant.My views fell on deaf ears as far as Neil Doncaster and Roger Munby were concerned and also with a few of the selected members.A call to Joe Ferrari will back up what i am saying because i had many,many chats with him over the issue during my time as an SCG member.

[/quote]---

A few points in the wake of John Tilson''s post.

Firstly, in case I look like a cheerleader for the SCG, I was never a

member, and thought all along that if it was to survive it badly needed

reforming on the lines I''ve already outlined, and which John says

he had also fruitlessly advocated. However, even in its unreformed

state, the SCG plainly contained a fair bit of accumulated wisdom that

must often have been useful to the club. The kind of wisdom that might

now come in handy over the issue - hotly debated on this messageboard -

of ticket prices and the like.

It is, though, clear that any time spent arguing for a revamped SCG or

something similar is at the moment totally pointless. The new guard has

made it pretty plain it is, to put it mildly, confident in its own

judgments and in little or no need of outside advice. So not only has

the SCG been scrapped, but so have the SCG working groups the club said

would continue. And the focus groups, theoretically set up in place of

the scrapped working groups, may exist in a filing cabinet in Carrow

Road but not in effective reality.

What''s left (webchats and supporter forums) is window-dressing rather

than genuinely consultative. I know from long experience of trying to

influence or alter the minds of high-powered people (both from on their

side of the table and on the other side in trade union negotiations)

that you don''t achieve that with slogans and speeches but with

painstaking, fact-based (and usually financial) arguments. The kind of

thing that is possible at something like the SCG but not at an unfocused

event like a public forum.

For the moment we are where we are, with little concern over the lack of

genuine consultation. It willl be interesting to see in a year''s time

or so if that has changed.

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[quote user="hogesar"][quote user="Cluck"][quote user="The Butler"]

[quote user="Cluck"]It''ll be the same old bunch of self-important busy bodies manoevering to be the most important-est within their closeted paperclip world.Parliament my arse.[/quote]

Parliament from the French Parlement or Parle to speak.

Therefore Cluch Parliament my arse is correct for you "To speak from my arse"[:D]

[/quote]I have returned from a well earned extended break with a determination not to agitate nor denegrate my fellow City supporters... no matter what provocation comes my way. [/quote]

And there i was thinking this forum was about to get interesting...[;)]

[/quote]

And you can feck off an'' all you facetious little pillock..........

Damn... and I was doing so well too.

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[quote user="lappinitup"][quote user="Cluck"]I have returned from a well earned extended break with a determination not to agitate nor denegrate my fellow City supporters... no matter what provocation comes my way.[/quote]Best you keep your beak clean whilst you''re on parole then Cluck![;)][/quote]Too late Flappynappy as I''m already under pressure due to un-called-for facetiousness..I am bitterly disappointed by this attitude and may well leave the forum for good this time......... [:@]..... perhaps..... actually I''m not really bothered so feck off the lot of you.

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[quote user="Cluck"][quote user="hogesar"][quote user="Cluck"][quote user="The Butler"]

[quote user="Cluck"]It''ll be the same old bunch of self-important busy bodies manoevering to be the most important-est within their closeted paperclip world.Parliament my arse.[/quote]

Parliament from the French Parlement or Parle to speak.

Therefore Cluch Parliament my arse is correct for you "To speak from my arse"[:D]

[/quote]I have returned from a well earned extended break with a determination not to agitate nor denegrate my fellow City supporters... no matter what provocation comes my way. [/quote]

And there i was thinking this forum was about to get interesting...[;)]

[/quote]

And you can feck off an'' all you facetious little pillock..........

Damn... and I was doing so well too.[/quote]Yess! [:D]

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[quote user="hogesar"][quote user="Cluck"][quote user="hogesar"][quote user="Cluck"][quote user="The Butler"]

[quote user="Cluck"]It''ll be the same old bunch of self-important busy bodies manoevering to be the most important-est within their closeted paperclip world.Parliament my arse.[/quote]

Parliament from the French Parlement or Parle to speak.

Therefore Cluch Parliament my arse is correct for you "To speak from my arse"[:D]

[/quote]I have returned from a well earned extended break with a determination not to agitate nor denegrate my fellow City supporters... no matter what provocation comes my way. [/quote]

And there i was thinking this forum was about to get interesting...[;)]

[/quote]

And you can feck off an'' all you facetious little pillock..........

Damn... and I was doing so well too.[/quote]Yess! [:D][/quote]You''ll be smiling on the other side of your face before very long young man![;)]

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[quote user="Cluck"][quote user="hogesar"][quote user="Cluck"][quote user="hogesar"][quote user="Cluck"][quote user="The Butler"]

[quote user="Cluck"]It''ll be the same old bunch of self-important busy bodies manoevering to be the most important-est within their closeted paperclip world.Parliament my arse.[/quote]

Parliament from the French Parlement or Parle to speak.

Therefore Cluch Parliament my arse is correct for you "To speak from my arse"[:D]

[/quote]I have returned from a well earned extended break with a determination not to agitate nor denegrate my fellow City supporters... no matter what provocation comes my way. [/quote]

And there i was thinking this forum was about to get interesting...[;)]

[/quote]

And you can feck off an'' all you facetious little pillock..........

Damn... and I was doing so well too.[/quote]Yess! [:D][/quote]You''ll be smiling on the other side of your face before very long young man![;)][/quote]He''ll make your bum smart....  He''ll dress it in a collar and tie.

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[quote user="ſilly ſauſage"][quote user="Cluck"][quote user="hogesar"][quote user="Cluck"][quote user="hogesar"][quote user="Cluck"][quote user="The Butler"]

[quote user="Cluck"]It''ll be the same old bunch of self-important busy bodies manoevering to be the most important-est within their closeted paperclip world.Parliament my arse.[/quote]

Parliament from the French Parlement or Parle to speak.

Therefore Cluch Parliament my arse is correct for you "To speak from my arse"[:D]

[/quote]I have returned from a well earned extended break with a determination not to agitate nor denegrate my fellow City supporters... no matter what provocation comes my way. [/quote]

And there i was thinking this forum was about to get interesting...[;)]

[/quote]

And you can feck off an'' all you facetious little pillock..........

Damn... and I was doing so well too.[/quote]Yess! [:D][/quote]You''ll be smiling on the other side of your face before very long young man![;)][/quote]He''ll make your bum smart....  He''ll dress it in a collar and tie. [/quote]Dicky bow? [:)]

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