Selection problems for Scunthorpe...

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 1,735]

[quote user="GJP"][quote user="GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary"][quote user="GJP"]

[quote user="Persnickety"][quote user="simo86"]people............ we were playing gillingham of league 2 last night............ lappin has been found out at this level before, i believe korey smith when fit should sit at the base of the diamond in place of fox[/quote]

Thank god for some sanity, well the first bit at least. Really cant see Lappin playing ahead of Surman under any circumstances other than injury or suspension, simply an inferior player (that was constantly being knocked last season but is now better than a former premiership player?). Yes he had a decent game last night against a league 2 team but would he really have covered for all the defensive mistakes against Watford? I dont think Surman can be blamed for the goals on friday and from what i saw of him going forward he looks fantastic so i dont understand the negativity.


[/quote]

Ok, well first of all, a lot of people seem to assume that the player at the base of the diamond has to tackle everything and be that kind of player. Perhaps Paul Lambert wants a ball player at the base of his diamond and if that is what he wants then he has got the right man in David Fox, he has already shown himself to be a very good footballer. He''s worked with Fox before, he knows what kind of player he is, he''s signed him for a particular role.

As for Lappin and Surman it''s pretty obvious that Surman is the more stylish player on the ball but Lappin is a pretty good player himself. He may not quite have the flair that we''re hoping to see from Surman but he does try to play the game the right way. The problem with Surmans performance against Watford was that he simply did not get himself involved enough and didn''t force the issue as much as he should. Lappin will be well worth his place when you need someone on the left side of the pitch who is going to run up and down for 90mins because I doubt you''re going to see that from Surman. It can''t always be lovely, free-flowing attractive football, sometimes you''re going to need a player in there who is going run his nuts off and get his kit dirty.

[/quote]

I certainly do believe that and am in pretty good company too. The best exponent of the diamond formation in recent years also happen to be the best team in England in Chelsea, if they believe they need such a player within that formation (i.e Makelele, Essien,Mikel), I would say that we would to?

[/quote]

But I think you''ll find that "tackle everything" is not the type of players Makelele, Essien and Mikel are and when playing for Chelsea that isn''t actually their job. They may operate at the base of the diamond but their job is to read and break up the play before distributing the ball and spreading the play, even if it is just a simple side foot pass out to a wide midfielder or a fullback. Sure they have to provide a bit of physical presence/put a tackle in where required but they''re not there just to jump into tackle after tackle.

Makelele is only a little chap and certainly was not a physical powerhouse in midfield but he just knew how to read the game and get in the right place before playing the correct pass. I would suggest that actually Paul Lambert has picked Fox knowing that he''s a good enough player to play that kind of "Makelele role".

[/quote]

p.s I can see that Fox can o the secon half of this ''job description'' ,it''s the first half of it that I''m struggling to see evidence that he can do it?€

[G 0]

I think the Fox is a good player but he is to much of an attacker to play in the CDM position. He isn''t a good enough tackler.

[GJP 79]

[quote user="GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary"][quote user="GJP"][quote user="GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary"][quote user="GJP"]

[quote user="Persnickety"][quote user="simo86"]people............ we were playing gillingham of league 2 last night............ lappin has been found out at this level before, i believe korey smith when fit should sit at the base of the diamond in place of fox[/quote]

Thank god for some sanity, well the first bit at least. Really cant see Lappin playing ahead of Surman under any circumstances other than injury or suspension, simply an inferior player (that was constantly being knocked last season but is now better than a former premiership player?). Yes he had a decent game last night against a league 2 team but would he really have covered for all the defensive mistakes against Watford? I dont think Surman can be blamed for the goals on friday and from what i saw of him going forward he looks fantastic so i dont understand the negativity.


[/quote]

Ok, well first of all, a lot of people seem to assume that the player at the base of the diamond has to tackle everything and be that kind of player. Perhaps Paul Lambert wants a ball player at the base of his diamond and if that is what he wants then he has got the right man in David Fox, he has already shown himself to be a very good footballer. He''s worked with Fox before, he knows what kind of player he is, he''s signed him for a particular role.

As for Lappin and Surman it''s pretty obvious that Surman is the more stylish player on the ball but Lappin is a pretty good player himself. He may not quite have the flair that we''re hoping to see from Surman but he does try to play the game the right way. The problem with Surmans performance against Watford was that he simply did not get himself involved enough and didn''t force the issue as much as he should. Lappin will be well worth his place when you need someone on the left side of the pitch who is going to run up and down for 90mins because I doubt you''re going to see that from Surman. It can''t always be lovely, free-flowing attractive football, sometimes you''re going to need a player in there who is going run his nuts off and get his kit dirty.

[/quote]

I certainly do believe that and am in pretty good company too. The best exponent of the diamond formation in recent years also happen to be the best team in England in Chelsea, if they believe they need such a player within that formation (i.e Makelele, Essien,Mikel), I would say that we would to?

[/quote]

But I think you''ll find that "tackle everything" is not the type of players Makelele, Essien and Mikel are and when playing for Chelsea that isn''t actually their job. They may operate at the base of the diamond but their job is to read and break up the play before distributing the ball and spreading the play, even if it is just a simple side foot pass out to a wide midfielder or a fullback. Sure they have to provide a bit of physical presence/put a tackle in where required but they''re not there just to jump into tackle after tackle.

Makelele is only a little chap and certainly was not a physical powerhouse in midfield but he just knew how to read the game and get in the right place before playing the correct pass. I would suggest that actually Paul Lambert has picked Fox knowing that he''s a good enough player to play that kind of "Makelele role".

[/quote]

p.s I can see that Fox can o the secon half of this ''job description'' ,it''s the first half of it that I''m struggling to see evidence that he can do it?€

[/quote]

Well to me he''s played that role well so far but if he isn''t doing a good enough job in there then you can be pretty sure the manager will drop him/change it.

But, yeah, so far Fox looks to me like he reads the game well, gets involved where he needs to and knows how to knock the ball around the pitch. No complaints here.

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 1,735]

[quote user="thirdlion v2"]Poor comparison to make with the Chelsea players - they were not brought in to be tackling machines. They play in a similar way to Carrick - they read the game, they intercept and break play down, then play it simply out of defence and into good positions. Essien and Mikel in particular. They may tackle better than other players, but you misunderstand their role if you think they are just tackling midfielders.
[/quote]

Is it a poor comparison?!?. Whilst Chelsea have had players to play the ball out of defence they also recognise that they need someone of the stature to be able to win the ball in the first place in that role........can you eally tell me you see Fox being able to do that????

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 1,735]

[quote user="GJP"][quote user="GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary"][quote user="GJP"][quote user="GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary"][quote user="GJP"]

[quote user="Persnickety"][quote user="simo86"]people............ we were playing gillingham of league 2 last night............ lappin has been found out at this level before, i believe korey smith when fit should sit at the base of the diamond in place of fox[/quote]

Thank god for some sanity, well the first bit at least. Really cant see Lappin playing ahead of Surman under any circumstances other than injury or suspension, simply an inferior player (that was constantly being knocked last season but is now better than a former premiership player?). Yes he had a decent game last night against a league 2 team but would he really have covered for all the defensive mistakes against Watford? I dont think Surman can be blamed for the goals on friday and from what i saw of him going forward he looks fantastic so i dont understand the negativity.


[/quote]

Ok, well first of all, a lot of people seem to assume that the player at the base of the diamond has to tackle everything and be that kind of player. Perhaps Paul Lambert wants a ball player at the base of his diamond and if that is what he wants then he has got the right man in David Fox, he has already shown himself to be a very good footballer. He''s worked with Fox before, he knows what kind of player he is, he''s signed him for a particular role.

As for Lappin and Surman it''s pretty obvious that Surman is the more stylish player on the ball but Lappin is a pretty good player himself. He may not quite have the flair that we''re hoping to see from Surman but he does try to play the game the right way. The problem with Surmans performance against Watford was that he simply did not get himself involved enough and didn''t force the issue as much as he should. Lappin will be well worth his place when you need someone on the left side of the pitch who is going to run up and down for 90mins because I doubt you''re going to see that from Surman. It can''t always be lovely, free-flowing attractive football, sometimes you''re going to need a player in there who is going run his nuts off and get his kit dirty.

[/quote]

I certainly do believe that and am in pretty good company too. The best exponent of the diamond formation in recent years also happen to be the best team in England in Chelsea, if they believe they need such a player within that formation (i.e Makelele, Essien,Mikel), I would say that we would to?

[/quote]

But I think you''ll find that "tackle everything" is not the type of players Makelele, Essien and Mikel are and when playing for Chelsea that isn''t actually their job. They may operate at the base of the diamond but their job is to read and break up the play before distributing the ball and spreading the play, even if it is just a simple side foot pass out to a wide midfielder or a fullback. Sure they have to provide a bit of physical presence/put a tackle in where required but they''re not there just to jump into tackle after tackle.

Makelele is only a little chap and certainly was not a physical powerhouse in midfield but he just knew how to read the game and get in the right place before playing the correct pass. I would suggest that actually Paul Lambert has picked Fox knowing that he''s a good enough player to play that kind of "Makelele role".

[/quote]

p.s I can see that Fox can o the secon half of this ''job description'' ,it''s the first half of it that I''m struggling to see evidence that he can do it?€

[/quote]

Well to me he''s played that role well so far but if he isn''t doing a good enough job in there then you can be pretty sure the manager will drop him/change it.

But, yeah, so far Fox looks to me like he reads the game well, gets involved where he needs to and knows how to knock the ball around the pitch. No complaints here.

[/quote]

Really?, not even on Friday night when Watford carved through our midfield time and time again as it offered no protection in front of the back four?

[GJP 79]

[quote user="GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary"][quote user="GJP"][quote user="GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary"][quote user="GJP"][quote user="GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary"][quote user="GJP"]

[quote user="Persnickety"][quote user="simo86"]people............ we were playing gillingham of league 2 last night............ lappin has been found out at this level before, i believe korey smith when fit should sit at the base of the diamond in place of fox[/quote]

Thank god for some sanity, well the first bit at least. Really cant see Lappin playing ahead of Surman under any circumstances other than injury or suspension, simply an inferior player (that was constantly being knocked last season but is now better than a former premiership player?). Yes he had a decent game last night against a league 2 team but would he really have covered for all the defensive mistakes against Watford? I dont think Surman can be blamed for the goals on friday and from what i saw of him going forward he looks fantastic so i dont understand the negativity.


[/quote]

Ok, well first of all, a lot of people seem to assume that the player at the base of the diamond has to tackle everything and be that kind of player. Perhaps Paul Lambert wants a ball player at the base of his diamond and if that is what he wants then he has got the right man in David Fox, he has already shown himself to be a very good footballer. He''s worked with Fox before, he knows what kind of player he is, he''s signed him for a particular role.

As for Lappin and Surman it''s pretty obvious that Surman is the more stylish player on the ball but Lappin is a pretty good player himself. He may not quite have the flair that we''re hoping to see from Surman but he does try to play the game the right way. The problem with Surmans performance against Watford was that he simply did not get himself involved enough and didn''t force the issue as much as he should. Lappin will be well worth his place when you need someone on the left side of the pitch who is going to run up and down for 90mins because I doubt you''re going to see that from Surman. It can''t always be lovely, free-flowing attractive football, sometimes you''re going to need a player in there who is going run his nuts off and get his kit dirty.

[/quote]

I certainly do believe that and am in pretty good company too. The best exponent of the diamond formation in recent years also happen to be the best team in England in Chelsea, if they believe they need such a player within that formation (i.e Makelele, Essien,Mikel), I would say that we would to?

[/quote]

But I think you''ll find that "tackle everything" is not the type of players Makelele, Essien and Mikel are and when playing for Chelsea that isn''t actually their job. They may operate at the base of the diamond but their job is to read and break up the play before distributing the ball and spreading the play, even if it is just a simple side foot pass out to a wide midfielder or a fullback. Sure they have to provide a bit of physical presence/put a tackle in where required but they''re not there just to jump into tackle after tackle.

Makelele is only a little chap and certainly was not a physical powerhouse in midfield but he just knew how to read the game and get in the right place before playing the correct pass. I would suggest that actually Paul Lambert has picked Fox knowing that he''s a good enough player to play that kind of "Makelele role".

[/quote]

p.s I can see that Fox can o the secon half of this ''job description'' ,it''s the first half of it that I''m struggling to see evidence that he can do it?€

[/quote]

Well to me he''s played that role well so far but if he isn''t doing a good enough job in there then you can be pretty sure the manager will drop him/change it.

But, yeah, so far Fox looks to me like he reads the game well, gets involved where he needs to and knows how to knock the ball around the pitch. No complaints here.

[/quote]

Really?, not even on Friday night when Watford carved through our midfield time and time again as it offered no protection in front of the back four?

[/quote]

Yes, really. For me David Fox was a contender for Man of the Match in that game for the amount of work he got through and the quality of his use of the ball.

We had 3 new players in our midfield, not to mention new players in other areas of the pitch, and I think it''s worth giving it a bit of time to settle down and get them used to playing with each other.

If David Fox looked like a rubbish footballer I''d be a bit more concerned but so far he looks like a good footballer and I very much doubt Paul Lambert will have too many complaints about what he has done for us so far.

[Davo 0]

I''ll take your Chelsea and raise you an AC Milan - 2 Champions league wins in 5 years with Andrea Pirlo playing at the base of their diamond. Pirlo has also won a World Cup.

Whether Fox is a success or not will depend on his positioning and reading of the game more than it will his tackling. If he constantly breaks up attacks by being in the right place at the right time and/or intercepting passes whilst making few tackles then he will be a success.

Only time will tell but no matter who is right or wrong I hope we find the right balance sooner rather than later.

Davo

[Lincs CR 0]

I''m starting to warm to the idea of having Fox at the base of the diamond however our biggest issue is getting the back 4 on the same wave length. I think after I''ve recalled the games after sleeping on my initial thoughts the fact there have been holes all over the back line has meant Fox has been forced to slip in and cover leaving the midfield so open when defending counter attacks.

Once our back 4 get a bit more stability I think he''ll start to stand out more.