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Patches OHoolahan

The state of modern day football

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Looking at Steve Coppell quitting after 4 months if that, Leicester being taken over by a Thai consortium, and the fact that its getting very difficult to know which players play for the various Championship teams- Mark Yeates played for Sheff. Utd the other day, when did he leave Middlesboro''?-  it seems that football is more changeable than ever. Why is football like this? It''s appalling that such a lack of loyalty exists in players, yet this is what we pay to see week in week out. Even 10 years ago, most players showed a bit of loyalty, but now its becoming the exception to the rule. Is it just money or are there other forces at work? The evil Murdoch perhaps? I''m finding it increasingly difficult to get excited when just watching a random football match because very often you don''t know who will be playing, except for the ''top 4'' who are rammed down are throats by the media. Thoughts please...

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Must admit I often feel the same Pat. Especially the perception I have of a random game on telly. Don''t really want to watch it as much as I used to. I''m definitely not going to stay home for it, if my club''s not involved. The City team used to be our team and all of them gave everything for City. This way of thinking is completely gone and footballers care more about their wages and the money they could get with football, wether they are playing or not.
They all say they want to play and that will probably be the truth, but the bottom line is: they want to earn as much as possible. I used to know most of the teams'' players of by heart. Tottenham, Liverpool, Coventry, Leeds, Everton,... you just knew who was in Goal, who their strikers would be, without even looking on Ceefax. Often the GK had only played for one or two clubs (eg Neville Southall, Bryan Gunn, Grobbelaar...) .

No Pat, I don''t really like where football''s going, but I like Norwich City and the fans and I don''t think that''s going to change in a hurry. I''m loyal and I know most of us are!

Bravo, win or die! On the B...

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I agree Rob, I think our club is going about things in the right way, and when football implodes sometime in the next few years, I think we shall rise, like a phoenix from the ashes, to take our place at the top table of football.

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[quote user="morty"]I agree Rob, I think our club is going about things in the right way, and when football implodes sometime in the next few years, I think we shall rise, like a phoenix from the ashes, to take our place at the top table of football.




[/quote]

I used to think the same but I''m not so sure now. It looks like we are making more effort now to be competitive in todays game. That will mean more risk the higher we go. It''s what the fans wanted and it''s probably right but the bottom line seems to be we are no longer happy to consolidate at a level the club can afford.

 

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[quote user="nutty nigel"]

[quote user="morty"]I agree Rob, I think our club is going about things in the right way, and when football implodes sometime in the next few years, I think we shall rise, like a phoenix from the ashes, to take our place at the top table of football.

[/quote]

I used to think the same but I''m not so sure now. It looks like we are making more effort now to be competitive in todays game. That will mean more risk the higher we go. It''s what the fans wanted and it''s probably right but the bottom line seems to be we are no longer happy to consolidate at a level the club can afford.

 

[/quote]I don''t entirely believe it either, its more like footy fan blind optimism! Perhaps we could adopt some kind of "ambition with prudence" policy.[;)]

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[quote user="morty"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

[quote user="morty"]I agree Rob, I think our club is going about things in the right way, and when football implodes sometime in the next few years, I think we shall rise, like a phoenix from the ashes, to take our place at the top table of football.




[/quote]

I used to think the same but I''m not so sure now. It looks like we are making more effort now to be competitive in todays game. That will mean more risk the higher we go. It''s what the fans wanted and it''s probably right but the bottom line seems to be we are no longer happy to consolidate at a level the club can afford.

 

[/quote]

I don''t entirely believe it either, its more like footy fan blind optimism! Perhaps we could adopt some kind of "ambition with prudence" policy.

[;)]
[/quote]

In this world where the grass is always greener on the other side of the street I would never discount some kind of protest urging the club to show more prudence with it''s ambition [:O]

 

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Changes are happening and we are moving in the right diection.

I hope the squad limitations brought in for this season in the Premiership is only the beginning and further changes will be made.

A complete ban on all loans would be a great pitch leveller, allowing more clubs to have access to the better players.

It''s noticeable that Steve Coppell was speaking out about the loan system only a couple of weeks ago. Perhaps that and the money aspect of the game today had much to do with his sudden resignation.

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[quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="morty"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

[quote user="morty"]I agree Rob, I think our club is going about things in the right way, and when football implodes sometime in the next few years, I think we shall rise, like a phoenix from the ashes, to take our place at the top table of football.

[/quote]

I used to think the same but I''m not so sure now. It looks like we are making more effort now to be competitive in todays game. That will mean more risk the higher we go. It''s what the fans wanted and it''s probably right but the bottom line seems to be we are no longer happy to consolidate at a level the club can afford.

 

[/quote]I don''t entirely believe it either, its more like footy fan blind optimism! Perhaps we could adopt some kind of "ambition with prudence" policy.[;)][/quote]

In this world where the grass is always greener on the other side of the street I would never discount some kind of protest urging the club to show more prudence with it''s ambition [:O]

 

[/quote]Where do you live that you have streets made of grass?

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[quote user="ZiggyPiggy"][quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="morty"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

[quote user="morty"]I agree Rob, I think our club is going about things in the right way, and when football implodes sometime in the next few years, I think we shall rise, like a phoenix from the ashes, to take our place at the top table of football.




[/quote]

I used to think the same but I''m not so sure now. It looks like we are making more effort now to be competitive in todays game. That will mean more risk the higher we go. It''s what the fans wanted and it''s probably right but the bottom line seems to be we are no longer happy to consolidate at a level the club can afford.

 

[/quote]

I don''t entirely believe it either, its more like footy fan blind optimism! Perhaps we could adopt some kind of "ambition with prudence" policy.

[;)]
[/quote]

In this world where the grass is always greener on the other side of the street I would never discount some kind of protest urging the club to show more prudence with it''s ambition [:O]

 

[/quote]

Where do you live that you have streets made of grass?
[/quote]

On the grass route Piggy.

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A very good read.I follow City because the original ethos of NCFC meant that it represented my home City and the wider County and area. This tenuous ''connection'' has become largely severed since Delia Smith miraculously became the media image of the City itself.... in doing so changing the whole point of the club that was. This is of course not unique to Norwich.As has been well said above... we now have foreign owners everywhere (and managers) along with mercenary players who really don''t care who they play for as long as they earn as much money as their talents allow.... and get to shag anything with a pulse in the locality. It stinks to be honest.I will continue to follow the Canaries..... but more for what they were than what they are now. Sad, but a fact.

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[quote user="Cluck"]

A very good read.

I follow City because the original ethos of NCFC meant that it represented my home City and the wider County and area. This tenuous ''connection'' has become largely severed since Delia Smith miraculously became the media image of the City itself.... in doing so changing the whole point of the club that was. This is of course not unique to Norwich.

As has been well said above... we now have foreign owners everywhere (and managers) along with mercenary players who really don''t care who they play for as long as they earn as much money as their talents allow.... and get to shag anything with a pulse in the locality. It stinks to be honest.

I will continue to follow the Canaries..... but more for what they were than what they are now. Sad, but a fact.


[/quote]

Isn''t this true for 99% of the people in the world? Aren''t we all trying to earn as much as we can so we can live a more comfortable life?

Footballers have changed because football has changed. With players starting their careers in Academies at 6 they are raised as footballers and it is all they know how to do. Also it isn''t like clubs show any loyalty to players, who they ditch as soon as they feel something better is available and fans only love players when they are playing well, so it is all a cycle really.

 

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[quote user="Bethnal Yellow and Green"]

[quote user="Cluck"]A very good read.I follow City because the original ethos of NCFC meant that it represented my home City and the wider County and area. This tenuous ''connection'' has become largely severed since Delia Smith miraculously became the media image of the City itself.... in doing so changing the whole point of the club that was. This is of course not unique to Norwich.As has been well said above... we now have foreign owners everywhere (and managers) along with mercenary players who really don''t care who they play for as long as they earn as much money as their talents allow.... and get to shag anything with a pulse in the locality. It stinks to be honest.I will continue to follow the Canaries..... but more for what they were than what they are now. Sad, but a fact.

[/quote]

Isn''t this true for 99% of the people in the world? Aren''t we all trying to earn as much as we can so we can live a more comfortable life?

Footballers have changed because football has changed. With players starting their careers in Academies at 6 they are raised as footballers and it is all they know how to do. Also it isn''t like clubs show any loyalty to players, who they ditch as soon as they feel something better is available and fans only love players when they are playing well, so it is all a cycle really.

 

[/quote]You''re absolutely right and I would encourage my own sons to do the same given the chance. I''m simply saying that it''s not what I as an idividual want from the game anymore.... so my personal affection is for what ''has been'' rather than ''what is now''.If you love your City... then you really have to love your club. This won''t change no matter who comes along and buggers it up.

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[quote user="Cluck"][quote user="Bethnal Yellow and Green"]

[quote user="Cluck"]A very good read.I follow City because the original ethos of NCFC meant that it represented my home City and the wider County and area. This tenuous ''connection'' has become largely severed since Delia Smith miraculously became the media image of the City itself.... in doing so changing the whole point of the club that was. This is of course not unique to Norwich.As has been well said above... we now have foreign owners everywhere (and managers) along with mercenary players who really don''t care who they play for as long as they earn as much money as their talents allow.... and get to shag anything with a pulse in the locality. It stinks to be honest.I will continue to follow the Canaries..... but more for what they were than what they are now. Sad, but a fact.

[/quote]

Isn''t this true for 99% of the people in the world? Aren''t we all trying to earn as much as we can so we can live a more comfortable life?

Footballers have changed because football has changed. With players starting their careers in Academies at 6 they are raised as footballers and it is all they know how to do. Also it isn''t like clubs show any loyalty to players, who they ditch as soon as they feel something better is available and fans only love players when they are playing well, so it is all a cycle really.

 

[/quote]You''re absolutely right and I would encourage my own sons to do the same given the chance. I''m simply saying that it''s not what I as an idividual want from the game anymore.... so my personal affection is for what ''has been'' rather than ''what is now''.If you love your City... then you really have to love your club. This won''t change no matter who comes along and buggers it up.[/quote]CHRIST.... I just realised I replied to a LONDONER!Wash my keyboard with soap and water... wash my keyboard with soap and water... wash my etc etc.......   [;)]

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I was fortunate to start watching City in 1957, and huge 35,000 gates at Carrow Road, it was still the cloth cap era. I hate the state of footy now, and whilst I don''t want go back to League 1.....ever! it still had real grounds with real fans in that division.

Progress eh?

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There are many many reasons for the declining state of the game which is characterised by administrations and clubs going bust.

I have never quite got my mind to the bottom of just why NCFC are constantly up against it with the good support and facilities they enjoy. Except for a few seasons of disastrous decision making, when we bled money, the Club is as well run as any IMHO. Put it another way, if we are in financial trouble ie. with regards to our  debt and losses, then most of the Championship and below must be too. There is a lot going for us that many clubs cannot boast. Our assets are solid and we are, unlike our good friends and rivals down the road, not council tenants.

I personally feel that the MAIN reason for this malaise is  the wage bill. Ordinary footballers are now paid too much. It goes to their heads, it spirals and they become Crofts or Russels thinking they are better than they are. Led by the Sky-fed and big business endorsed Premiership all teams not in that league seem to have little choice but to try to pay their way into the so-called Promised Land or risk being labelled unambitious failures by supporters who want the best. The incentives are enormous. The most lucrative game in World Soccer is now apparently the Championship play-off final. 

Agents, the loan system which has created an ethic of mercenary nomadism, and the silly money of the likes of Abramovich, I could go on forever. As all of us of a certain age could.

The Dave Stringers of  football are a thing of the past. Four hundred and ninety nine games for Norwich, he only left to finish his playing career at Cambridge before coming back to star again.

The longer serving players got testimonial matches to enable the supporters to show appreciation and also, presumably as a golden handshake for loyal players seeking to buy a business once their playing days were over. Do testimonials happen nowadays?

 

 

   

 

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[quote user="First Wizard"]it was still the cloth cap era.[/quote]Did you wear a cloth cap Wiz? [:^)]

You don''t see many wizards walking round wearing cloth caps these days! [;)]

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[quote user="Cluck"]You''re absolutely right and I would encourage my own sons to do the same given the chance. [/quote]Given the chance you ever find someone willing to procreate with you?I wouldn''t hold your breath if I were you....

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[quote user="First Wizard"]

I was fortunate to start watching City in 1957, and huge 35,000 gates at Carrow Road, it was still the cloth cap era. I hate the state of footy now, and whilst I don''t want go back to League 1.....ever! it still had real grounds with real fans in that division.

Progress eh?

[/quote]

I started about then, as a ten years old. My father took a box for me to stand on and occasionally us kids were passed down to the front over the heads of the supporters.

I was always fascinated by the constant glows from cigarettes being lit or inhaled in the dark stands at night games.

Cloth caps? You forgot to mention Woodbines.

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[quote user="lappinitup"]

[quote user="First Wizard"]it was still the cloth cap era.[/quote]Did you wear a cloth cap Wiz? [:^)]

 

[/quote]Yes, I did Lapps, green and yelllow it was, and it was worn on top of my pointy hat.

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[quote user="First Wizard"]

I was fortunate to start watching City in 1957, and huge 35,000 gates at Carrow Road, it was still the cloth cap era. I hate the state of footy now, and whilst I don''t want go back to League 1.....ever! it still had real grounds with real fans in that division.

Progress eh?

[/quote]

Well I was watching football in the 60''s and it wasn''t any better then than it is now Wiz in my opinion. You got there early to find a good place to stand, usually next to a crush barrier, and then two minutes before the start some big tall guys would push in and stand in front of you so you only saw half the match.

Players came and went and Managers too. Reeves went  for a million pounds so we built the Norwich & Peterborough Stand which has always been cold and cheerless ever since it was put up. Managers disagreed with directors, stuck two fingers in the air and sent on full backs as centre forwards. Stuff the fans and what they thought.

The police thought Saturday afternoons great fun and made sallies into the crowd pulling out anyone they fancied and frog marched them away. I was always in fear that it would be one of my sons because they had red hair and were noticable.

No Wiz give me my seat in the Upper Barclay any time over those days. They just seem better because they were long ago and the old eyes could see better!

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Norwich v Everton 1973.  What a game that was! Clive Payne coming on as centre forward. 5 goals scored - all own goals and Ron Saunders leaving at the end.

Some of you have criticised the players for being greedy, but would we be any different?  The only reason that keelan stayed at Norwich all those years was that he had no freedom of contract whatsover.  Bosman changed all that and rightly gave footballers the same rights as the rest of us.  Footballers in the 1960''s and 1970''s weren''t any more loyal - they just didn''t have the freedom that players have now.

I think calling Russell greedy is a bit much - we haven''t heard his side of the story.  I would guess his agent told him he could get him a better deal and came unstuck in a spectacular way.

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Whilst the ''Old days'' had their bad sides, there is no doubt that the Premier League & Sky era has changed the game forever

Some aspects of the modern game are good - girls come to games as well as boys.  You are guaranteed a good view.  Everything is much cleaner, more accessible.  Youre less likely to end up with food poisoning or the bloke standing behind you peeing down your legs.  You can bring your kids with no real worries.  The cages have gone - for those less than 25 years old, yes going to Carrow Road or other grounds was exactly like being in a zoo - except the fans were the animals and were treated like them by all and sundry.  Those that went to Southend last year - the away loos were exactly like Carrow Road used to be - in fact the Southend loos were cleaner

But the atmosphere has gone.  Corporate boxes, where most of those sitting inside dont know the words to On the Ball City.  Restaurants inside the ground (instead of supermarkets in the case of Bolton - anyone remember their old ground).  The old grounds are going - Burnden Park, Victoria Ground, Ayresome Park, Filbert Street, Highbury, The Dell, Layer Road, Highfield Road - to name but a few - are all gone, and in some cases built on.  Those that remain dont resemble the grounds of 20 years ago.  I will always remember the excitement of climbing the deathtrap steps to the rear of the Barclay mound, having paid £3 on the gate, whilst hurling abuse at the opposition fans also climbing the mound a few yards away.  As mentioned previously theres been a bit of that feeling again last season - Southend, Oldham and of course standing on terracing at Brentford.  Exeter - a pathway behind the goal.  Proper grounds, proper fans

Those times will never come back.  And maybe the game will continue to become more sterile - maybe the likes of Brendo, Nana and co will be here 20 or 30 years from now wishing for the good old days.  But even though its not the game I grew up with I still love going to see Norwich play, and always will do. 

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[quote user="dylanisabaddog"]

Norwich v Everton 1973.  What a game that was! Clive Payne coming on as centre forward. 5 goals scored - all own goals and Ron Saunders leaving at the end.

Some of you have criticised the players for being greedy, but would we be any different?  The only reason that keelan stayed at Norwich all those years was that he had no freedom of contract whatsover.  Bosman changed all that and rightly gave footballers the same rights as the rest of us.  Footballers in the 1960''s and 1970''s weren''t any more loyal - they just didn''t have the freedom that players have now.

I think calling Russell greedy is a bit much - we haven''t heard his side of the story.  I would guess his agent told him he could get him a better deal and came unstuck in a spectacular way.

[/quote]

Yes, I entirely agree the Bosman ruling did change the game for good and  was in itself a fair ruling. I also feel it has beeen abused by players to push their demands higher. Now we have a player like Croft, in my opinion nothing special, who cost the Club £600, 000, was paid well whilst never really living upto expectations and then saw out his contract to become a free agent with a handsome slice of a handsome signing on fee from Deby. NCFC got bad value from this player and he was treated well, throughout injuries and loss of form, all the time he was here. The fans were also good to him despite calling him Tyrone at times. He showed no inclination to repay the Club, as even with just a one year contract we could well have got a fee for him from Derby. He and no doubt his agent just walked away with their pockets well lined. This is the kind of thing the O/P was probably alluding to with regards to the decline of player loyalty. Of course you cannot blame anybody for making as much money from their career as they can, but there has to be a balance and loyalty works both ways.

Players did move in those days but the fee had to be appropriate and the player  had to want a move. Many were more reluctant then to leave a club they were happy at. We lost Ron Davies pretty quickly to Southampton because their offer was acceptable to us and he wanted to play in a higher league.

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[quote user="Herb"][quote user="Cluck"]You''re absolutely right and I would encourage my own sons to do the same given the chance. [/quote]Given the chance you ever find someone willing to procreate with you?I wouldn''t hold your breath if I were you....[/quote]I''ll make a total mess of your arse if you don''t wrap up.........

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[quote user="Cluck"]I''ll make a total mess of your arse if you don''t wrap up.........[/quote]DELIA SMITH''S GREEN AND YELLOW BRA WEARING KNOWALL LONDON TYPE NANCY BOY! [;)]

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[quote user="Cluck"][quote user="Herb"][quote user="Cluck"]You''re absolutely right and I would encourage my own sons to do the same given the chance. [/quote]Given the chance you ever find someone willing to procreate with you?I wouldn''t hold your breath if I were you....[/quote]I''ll make a total mess of your arse if you don''t wrap up.........[/quote]Oh I do love it when you talk dirty, chicken....[:P]

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It annoys me to see foreign club owners.

I hate seeing money from our game going abroad as more foreign players are brought in while British clubs go to the wall.

I don''t agree with transfer windows, they are a breach of trade and favour big clubs.

Watching England last night I wondered how many games our best young players will get this season.

I could go on, but I loved last season; it was a breath of fresh air and a reminder of what supporting a club used to be as we came into contact with true fans of football.

Also, as we live in the present I love the fact we have a professional board and top manager. I am proud to see players signed to us on the pitch and have re-found the player affinity that makes watching a side special.

This affinity is to players like Nelson bursting a gut despite his limitations; the loyal Drury; the passionate play of young Smith and Lappin; the brilliance of Hoolihan; the skill of Martin and the heart of Holt. I know Surman if going to be outstanding and am excited by other newcomers.

We play Blackburn in the cup soon. What do they have to look forward to, except the cups. They will rate survival in the league as a victory, their fans will see them lose more often than not and their players are mainly overpaid foreign prima donnas. On top of that they get their games moved around by Sky more ofter than we do and they mostly get a late slot on MoTD.

Modern day football is in a state but don''t let that cause you to overlook where Norwich City is today. Crowds of 14k paid witness to that attitude when we had Crook, Culverhouse, Sutton, Fox et al.

When we were relegated we had few assets but one season on we are asset rich and improving. What a turn around!

At the moment I am especially happy I am a Norwich fan.

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