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GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary

Fox for Russell ?!?!?

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.....or more in particular Fox for a ''ball winning'' midfielder?.  We''re living in a dream world if we think we can play a diamond formation at this level without a ''destroyer'' at its base. In the championship if anythng we would need one even more so than in League One.  Fox is too lightweight to play in this role, it''s ok when we have the ball, but without we will get sliced open with this lack of protection in front of the back four.

As much as it is unfortunate as he looks good going forward I think we are going to have to put Crofts back into that role, or possibly Korey Smith?.

If the rumours are true that Russell wanted to sign a contract and Lambert turned him away, I think we may just regret that.

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Spot on GJL... [Y]It amazed me how Lambert (a European Cup winning midfielder) was naive enough to play a diamond midfield tonight with not one player who could actually win a tackle in it!I said it was a mistake letting Russell and Spillane go at the time without replacing them and stand by that.We are left with just one ball winner in midfield in our entire squad at the moment - Korey Smith and I assume that he was too unfit to play any part from the bench tonight?This area needs to be addressed as soon as possible for me and our defence is also a worry.On the positive side if Lambert can rectify those things we look to have plenty of creativity going forward and I am sure that we will score goals.I will be gobsmacked if we have any success playing Fox at the base our diamond midfield though.  I am not slating the player but that position is not suited to him in my opinion.

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Crofts definitely needs to be the defensive midfielder, his mentality and enthusiasm last night is well worthy of a cracking defensive player..I agree with the views that fox is too lightweight, he is, I can''t really see how he''d fit into our system unless he''s got a shot on him for an attacking mid?

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[quote user="Smudger"]Spot on GJL... [Y]

It amazed me how Lambert (a European Cup winning midfielder) was naive enough to play a diamond midfield tonight with not one player who could actually win a tackle in it!

I said it was a mistake letting Russell and Spillane go at the time without replacing them and stand by that.

We are left with just one ball winner in midfield in our entire squad at the moment - Korey Smith and I assume that he was too unfit to play any part from the bench tonight?

This area needs to be addressed as soon as possible for me and our defence is also a worry.

On the positive side if Lambert can rectify those things we look to have plenty of creativity going forward and I am sure that we will score goals.

I will be gobsmacked if we have any success playing Fox at the base our diamond midfield though.  I am not slating the player but that position is not suited to him in my opinion.
[/quote]

Not only that but one who actually performed this role at Borrisua Dortmund!.

The finest exponents of the diamond formation in recent years and also happen to be the best team in England at the present time are Chelsea, yet they would always include this type of player in their side i.e Makelele,Essien,Mikel.   If Chelsea think they need one, I would suggest that we probably do to!

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[quote user="I am a Banana"]I think Korey smith could do the holding role although I think fox did very well![/quote]Hooray!

David looked good imo too.

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I agree with pretty much all of what the OP said. One additional point though - I think that the aggressive, "destroyer" type role in any team is something that has to be sorted out in real, competitive matches. You simply can''t create the hard-tackling, no nonsense environment of a league or cup game on the training ground or even in a friendly match, when nobody wants to go in really hard for tackles or risk getting injured. I think that''s why we were reasonably good at the creative, ball-playing side last night, but totally at a loss when Watford had the ball - we allowed them to play, and made them look better than they really are.Give it 10 or 12 games and PL will sort it out.

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Crofts = the Championship Gerrard.

Spot on mistershops.

Putting crofts at the base would be a complete waste. he was like a gerrard last night and he will be too good going forward to play in the holding roe. korey smith should play that or we need to be signing someone this week.

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Agree with this really. Fox is much better than Russell technically, Russell was a poor passer of the ball, whereas Fox looks completely the opposite. But as a holding midfielder your primary job is to break up the oppositions play and get the ball going forward.  Fox it seems is too lightweight, and not strong enough to break the play up as well as Russell. I think letting Spillane go was a huge mistake, i know people always so he''s overrated because he came through the academy, but in my opinion he''s a better right back than Martin, but is also good for his versatility. Spillane played as a holding midfielder for Luton, and was said to be their best player. I think he could have done a good job as a holding midfielder for us this year.

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For someone playing in the deep lying playmaker role, Fox didn''t get on the ball nearly enough. I honestly didn''t see him get the ball until we''d gone 2-0 down. Not good enough last night.

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[quote user="Larry David"]For someone playing in the deep lying playmaker role, Fox didn''t get on the ball nearly enough. I honestly didn''t see him get the ball until we''d gone 2-0 down. Not good enough last night.
[/quote]Then polish your glasses.

His passing was excellent from the kick off.

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[quote user="Captain Holts Controversial Jokes"]Fox played well.[/quote]

That isn''t really the argument. The point is did he play well in the area of the field he is supposed to be operating in? . At the base of the midfield he is the last line of defence in front of the back 4, can you really say he did that job?.  We were open time after time.  I agree that there is a good ball player in Fox ,but not in that role.

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[quote user="First Wizard"]

[quote user="Larry David"]For someone playing in the deep lying playmaker role, Fox didn''t get on the ball nearly enough. I honestly didn''t see him get the ball until we''d gone 2-0 down. Not good enough last night.[/quote]Then polish your glasses.

His passing was excellent from the kick off.

[/quote]Yeah and he was SUPER good at stopping their midfield coming straight down the middle of the pitch for the entire game. Needs to improve a lot imo.

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Clingan was not 6ft but was clearly good enough for the Championship when he was with us. As far as i remember, he used to sweep the ball up, and pass it to our creative players. Is this not what Fox was doing last night? I did not see Fox pull out of a challenge.

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[quote user="Largey"]Clingan was not 6ft but was clearly good enough for the Championship when he was with us. As far as i remember, he used to sweep the ball up, and pass it to our creative players. Is this not what Fox was doing last night? I did not see Fox pull out of a challenge.[/quote]

Fox isn''t in Clingan''s class, Clingan has played in that role all of his career, including at international level- and he wasn''t a bad central defender either if called upon, I think I''m correct in saying that this might be a new role for Fox.

We actually had a decent defensive record in the early stages two seasons ago with Clingan in front of Kennedy and Sefanovic (barring stupid penalties), in no small part due to Clingan............ I''m not sure if I see that here??

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The word lightweight has been used a couple of times earlier in this thread and for me that is the term that summed up the first half last night.

Crofts is the only one who is competitive in a tackle and it showed in a half where we were second to everything. Too often possession was lost and Watford broke forward at pace, exposing our pedestrian centre backs. As a result we defended deeper and deeper which isolated the front two even further. With no physical presence up front there was no outlet.

The second half improved markedly with the midfield and defence much sharper, winning possession and breaking up attacks.

Playing more to their offensive strengths Fox, Surman and Crofts got in to the game more.

Fox needs to have more to his game to play at the base and is perhaps better suited to a 442 playing alongside a ball winner. Korey would be better in a diamond formation. I thought that Surman did not do enough and needs to work better with Drury and he could be replaced like-for-like with Lappin.

The key to our success or otherwise this season lies with the centre backs and last nights performance is a cause for concern. Let''s hope that Whitbread can provide a solution but with his injury prone-ness and Askou not offering anything different to Nelson and Ward, I would really like to see a strong Martin Taylor type leader brought in.

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[quote user="Lineo"]Crofts definitely needs to be the defensive midfielder, his mentality and enthusiasm last night is well worthy of a cracking defensive player..I agree with the views that fox is too lightweight, he is, I can''t really see how he''d fit into our system unless he''s got a shot on him for an attacking mid?[/quote]Fox does have a good shot on him and put in a good effort 2nd half last night.He was simply woefully out of position and exposed further by the inability of the rest of the midfielders around him to win enough ball and also the quality of our Centre Halves and Russel Martin.Maybe a slightly different/more defensive option than playing Hoolahan at the tip of the diamond for me, but other than that or part of a falt 4-4-2 with a ball winner alongside him he is going to be totally exposed or we have better options already in our squad.

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[quote user="Bryangunnshairline"]Crofts = the Championship Gerrard.

Spot on mistershops.

Putting crofts at the base would be a complete waste. he was like a gerrard last night and he will be too good going forward to play in the holding roe. korey smith should play that or we need to be signing someone this week.[/quote]Agree that we need to be signing somebody as soon as possible... [Y]All very well letting Russell and Spillane go during the same week, but we haven''t replaced them.  We are now left with Korey as the only player at the club who will win enough ball to play the base of the diamond anywhere near effectively for me.  If Korey isn''t fully fit (as perhaps was the case last night) then we are going to be in big trouble.Let''s make no mistake about it... Watford were a poor side and we made them look good!

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[quote user="Big Slob"]Agree with this really. Fox is much better than Russell technically, Russell was a poor passer of the ball, whereas Fox looks completely the opposite. But as a holding midfielder your primary job is to break up the oppositions play and get the ball going forward.  Fox it seems is too lightweight, and not strong enough to break the play up as well as Russell. I think letting Spillane go was a huge mistake, i know people always so he''s overrated because he came through the academy, but in my opinion he''s a better right back than Martin, but is also good for his versatility. Spillane played as a holding midfielder for Luton, and was said to be their best player. I think he could have done a good job as a holding midfielder for us this year.[/quote]Very well said mate... I knew that losing the two of them in the same week was a big loss!

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[quote user="Smudger"]He was simply woefully out of position and exposed further by the inability of the rest of the midfielders around him to win enough ball and also the quality of our Centre Halves and Russel Martin.[/quote]Most of the midfielders, one CB and R Martin are all Lamberts signings smudger and the diamond is down to him. I take it you think his choice of players AND his tactics are poor. Can we expect a LAMBERT OUT protest anytime soon? [:S]

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[quote user="Glutton for Punishment"] I thought that Surman did not do enough and needs to work better with Drury and he could be replaced like-for-like with Lappin. [/quote]In the same way that you can replace an Audi like-for-like with a Fiat Punto?

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Totally agree GJL. I refuse to say Fox is a poor player because he is far from it. His passing last night was accurate and seems to have very good awareness of his team mates around him, but sadly isn''t playing in his natural position.

Darel Russell converted into a DM player effectively because he had a strong tackle, good strength and knew just how to unsettle the attacking midfielder player, Fox can''t quite do the same as he seems far too lightweight. He''s similar to Hughes, a near, visually aware, technically gifted passing midfielder, NOT a defensive holding player.

I seriously hope, at a minimum Korey Smith has that role, albeit temporarily until a replacement is bought in, if not we may well struggle.

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[quote user="lappinitup"][quote user="Smudger"]He was simply woefully out of position and exposed further by the inability of the rest of the midfielders around him to win enough ball and also the quality of our Centre Halves and Russel Martin.[/quote]Most of the midfielders, one CB and R Martin are all Lamberts signings smudger and the diamond is down to him. I take it you think his choice of players AND his tactics are poor. Can we expect a LAMBERT OUT protest anytime soon? [:S][/quote]Lambert''s tactics were poor last night Lapps.  Hopefully he will realise that, accept it and then try and do something about it.I would be extremely surprised to learn that he has no concerns over whether his midfield can win enough ball and over if our defence might not need another signing or two to it Lapp.Didn''t Delia say that Lambert got 7 out of the 9 players he wanted during the summer?  I would like to think that there is some money available for loanees or signings before August is out.  We have a lot of quality there, but the team that was played last night will lose far more games than it wins this season without tightening up both the midfield and the back four for me.

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[quote user="Smudger"][quote user="lappinitup"][quote user="Smudger"]He was simply woefully out of position and exposed further by the inability of the rest of the midfielders around him to win enough ball and also the quality of our Centre Halves and Russel Martin.[/quote]Most of the midfielders, one CB and R Martin are all Lamberts signings smudger and the diamond is down to him. I take it you think his choice of players AND his tactics are poor. Can we expect a LAMBERT OUT protest anytime soon? [:S][/quote]Lambert''s tactics were poor last night Lapps.  Hopefully he will realise that, accept it and then try and do something about it.I would be extremely surprised to learn that he has no concerns over whether his midfield can win enough ball and over if our defence might not need another signing or two to it Lapp.Didn''t Delia say that Lambert got 7 out of the 9 players he wanted during the summer?  I would like to think that there is some money available for loanees or signings before August is out.  We have a lot of quality there, but the team that was played last night will lose far more games than it wins this season without tightening up both the midfield and the back four for me.[/quote]It''s a tricky one to call, Smudger.  I can''t tell whether it was the tactics (Lambert) or the execution of the tactics (the players, esp. Nelson & Ward).  Certainly Nelly can''t be our first choice centre back and Ward looks horribly rusty.

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[quote user="CallsignViper"]What about all of the challenges Crofts made, breaking up the play and winning the ball back for us? Does he not win enough challenges Smudge?[/quote]He does out wide YES.  But I have my doubts over whether he could win enough ball to play at the base of the diamond.Anyhow that still leaves us with 3 from 4 who can''t tackle.  I think that you need either an excellent defence, or alternatively at least 2 (if not 3) midfielders who are strong in the tackle.At the moment we have what looks to be a shaky defence and one player out of 4 who can win a tackle in midfield.  A recipie for disaster in my book!

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