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Matt Morriss

Holt on the bench?

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With the way Martin and Jackson played at the weekend, and to a lesser extent Johnson, who i think will have more of an impact this season and is arguably physically the most gifted of the 4, given that Holt wont be starting the season, do you think that he may well find it hard to get back into the team?

If Martin continues his good form and Jackson does indeed turn out to be the new Earnshaw, with the way that we now look to be playing, which is even more on the deck and lots of neat short passes, with Surman and Hoolahan running things and the lack of any wingers, I can see Holt struggling to get back in the side, especially if we get off to a flier.

As good as Holt was last season, Martin is equally important when deciding on the front two as his short passing game and link up play is the best of the 4 and vital to our attacks. With the way the Championship is nowadays Martin, and a pacey Jackson firing on all cylinders, could well compliment the new look midfield better than a Holt/Martin partnership.

I actually thought we looked a bit like Spain on saturday! The short passing game was magnificent to watch, and there were a couple of moves that were outstanding , especially in the 2nd half when some great link up and quick feet somehow ended up with a corner, and then the ole passes towards the end and Macca''s elastico flick and cross.

Point is we seem to play in a different way to last season, and it could be a way that just doesnt require a traditional centre forward like Holt.

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um. well. That''s out of left field.No, to answer your question, I do not believe our captain Holt will struggle to get back in the team. I also think he will start against Watford.

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Jackson has to ear his place in the starting line up. Shown a few nice touches but hardly pulled up trees so far. IF Horse is fit (and that''s a big if) he starts with Martin. Jackson and Oli are benchwarmers for the first few games at the very least.

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I haven''t ignored it. I just think that if he''s still only 50/50 that he can make 90 minutes on Friday 6th August 7:45pm Lambo will play him.

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I hope that, if he doesn''t start against watford, he struggles to get back into the team.

I hope that if he does start against Waford that Jackson struggles to get in the team.

If its a struggle to get off the bench then those playing are doing well!

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[quote user="Seat0123"]I haven''t ignored it. I just think that if he''s still only 50/50 that he can make 90 minutes on Friday 6th August 7:45pm Lambo will play him. [/quote]

haha

then you know nothing about football and need to start watching bowls or something.

If Holt isnt fit he wont start, Lamberts not an idiot.

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[quote user="Montgomery Bumpkin"]Jackson has to ear his place in the starting line up. Shown a few nice touches but hardly pulled up trees so far. IF Horse is fit (and that''s a big if) he starts with Martin. Jackson and Oli are benchwarmers for the first few games at the very least.[/quote]

Pulled up trees ffs!...Give the guy a chance..How many games.. No weeks..No months..Did it take Iwan? Saturday,he looked a lot better(shame about the Offside goal),especially with Chrissy,where there were signs of bonding starting..Apart from that,his touches were class..Give the guy 10 matches before we know if he is any good at pulling up trees!

 

 

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[quote user="Barclayman"][quote user="Seat0123"]I haven''t ignored it. I just think that if he''s still only 50/50 that he can make 90 minutes on Friday 6th August 7:45pm Lambo will play him. [/quote]

haha

then you know nothing about football and need to start watching bowls or something.

If Holt isnt fit he wont start, Lamberts not an idiot.[/quote]No, Lambert isn''t an idiot, but he does take calculated risks concerning Holt and his injury: http://www.edp24.co.uk/content/edp24/sport/football/norwich-city/story.aspx?brand=EDPOnline&category=SportNorwich&tBrand=EDPOnline&tCategory=xDefault&itemid=NOED29%20Apr%202010%2009%3A39%3A18%3A703 in particular please note where he is talking about how they''ve been risking Holt playing with an injury up until prpomotoin was sealed - “There were times in training when he hurt himself and you think oh . . .

but he just battled on and got on with it. We knew we had to get him

through games
. He did it and he''s been brilliant for us.”Obviously I am allowing myself a bit of artistic license with saying if he''s 50/50 her will start, it would probably have to be nearer to 80/20 - but starting the season on the telly, in front of a packed house, in a game which he has already described as "must win" if we are to maintain momentum (not must-win in any other context of course), then I think (though I know nothing about football do I, sorry) Holt would start.

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[quote user="Barclaybred"]

[quote user="Montgomery Bumpkin"]Jackson has to ear his place in the starting line up. Shown a few nice touches but hardly pulled up trees so far. IF Horse is fit (and that''s a big if) he starts with Martin. Jackson and Oli are benchwarmers for the first few games at the very least.[/quote]

Pulled up trees ffs!...Give the guy a chance..How many games.. No weeks..No months..Did it take Iwan? Saturday,he looked a lot better(shame about the Offside goal),especially with Chrissy,where there were signs of bonding starting..Apart from that,his touches were class..Give the guy 10 matches before we know if he is any good at pulling up trees!

 

 

[/quote]I agree on this point completely.

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I wish some people here wouldn''t keep characterising Holt as a big immobile lump that is only of any use as a target to boot balls up to. There''s an awful lot more to his game than that. What we now have is a number of optionsin attack, which can only be a good thing. There will be games where Holt''s strength & physical presence will be invaluable, some where Jackson''s sheer pace will do the trick, but both will be an asset to the club.

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Yep I quite I agree we just dont need our inspirational captain Holt anymore, may be we''d be better off trading him in for that great striker Jon Steed now there''s a real striker.......................

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Whether Holt makes the opening match or not aside... I don''t think when he if match fit he will struggle to get back into the starting line-up. I believe Jackson will be fighting for Martin''s spot in the team and we''ll only see them both playing if Holt is injured or suspended, meaning the Watford match could well be a "prove yourself, one of you will play alongside Grant next week" sort of game for them.

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[quote user="ron obvious"]
I wish some people here wouldn''t keep characterising Holt as a big immobile lump that is only of any use as a target to boot balls up to. There''s an awful lot more to his game than that.
What we now have is a number of optionsin attack, which can only be a good thing. There will be games where Holt''s strength & physical presence will be invaluable, some where Jackson''s sheer pace will do the trick, but both will be an asset to the club.



[/quote]

totally agree. Grant Holt is undoubtedly a very good center forward. He is the perfect target man for knocking the ball up high to his head, plus with his strength and determination would run through a brick wall for the cause! But he is also very gifted with the ball played to his feet, he can turn a defender or two inside out, and maybe surprisingly has a few skills and even a bit of pace in him. I just look at his goal vs Orient at home and think, how would a big immobile lump be able to chest and volley like that?! For me he is one of the most important players in our team and we are a poorer team without him. I just really hope he does play vs Watford, but, if it would mean him feeling even worse after the game, I don''t think I''d play him, I''d start Simo and Chrissy upfront and play Holt second match if he''s 100% fit

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Holt is our best forward there is no denial in that. Holt is good in the air as well as using his feet to find the net. He is our only  "Traditional" target man But we may not need a target man in this league as it backfired last time with Siberski ( Allthough he was an midfeilder ). Chris Martin plays twice to his capability without Holt. Chris is much more technically gifted than Holt what we may need this season. And with Martin you can not say he will not get as many as Holt as 22 last season was impressive for his first full season in the team . Jackson on the other hand is 3 times quicker than Holt Martin and Johnson and got 17 goals for a club who finished 23rd in league 1 who did not win away last season. The only thing I can think of what Jackson can do is use his pace agains tired defenders. Still i havent seen enougth of Jackson to see what he can do. Oli Johnson will be the least likley to feature this upcoming season allthough he can dribble with the ball and he is a big tall player. Holt could very well find it hard to get into the starting 11 if he dosent get to start the season but it can be for all players in all positions as if they are injured or off form they can be dropped and find it hard to break into the team

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Oh Ye with short memories.

Holt was the best forward on our books last season. Of course he has to be fit and one can only hope that he can do the business this season as last year.

Unless we get a back up for Holt we will struggle. There will be games where we can play Martin and Jackson together. The latter surprised me with his heading ability on Saturday.

I admit I do not hero worship Martin as seems most on here do. I just feel he constantly needs a kick up the backside, however, he has the potential to be a good striker in this division. I suppose I am always very aware of ''local boy so must be good'' syndrome.

Now then - crash helmet on - but if/when Holt gets fit, I get the feeling Jackson will end up being the more regular partner. I shall, however, remain concerned until we sign or loan an experienced target man to cover and challenge Holt for that position and balance our squad.

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I should probably point out before I make this post that I love Grant Holt, I think he was massive for us last year and hope that he continues to lead the line for us as effectively this season. This is in no way meant to be a criticism of him but just a glance at his career statistics.

Now I''ve got that little disclaimer out of the way I think that the OP has raised an interesting point. I''ve had a quick look at Grant Holt''s stats on Soccerbase and I can only find four appearances as a substitute at Championship level when he went on loan to Blackpool from Forest in 2008. He was at Sheffield Wednesday when they were relegated to the third tier in 2003 (making a total of twelve starts and twelve substitute appearances in his time there between March 2003 and January 2004) but I can''t tell how many of his apperances came at the level we now find ourselves at. Let''s be generous and say half came before relegation and half afterwards. After that he played for Rochdale in League Two, Forest in League One, Blackpool on loan in The Championship, Shrewsbury in League Two and for us in League One last season.

So at twenty nine years old Grant Holt has made four confirmed substitute appearances at Championship level in 2008 with a possible dozen or so further appearances back in 2003.

It proves nothing and I''m normally the first to criticise posters for trawling through statistics to prove how brilliant/useless our latest signing is going to be. But it is interesting and if Holty struggles for goals at the start of the season how long will it be before fans start wondering whether this is a step to far for him?

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Everyone seems to have missed the point of this post, I''m not saying that Holt won''t cut it in the Championship I''m saying that judging by the way we played on Saturday that I''m merely suggesting a talking point that perhaps a strike force of the technically superior Martin and pacey Jackson might better compliment the way were gonna play, ie no Lappin or Macnamee starting so less emphasis on finding Holts head, and more emphasis on Wes and getting the best out of him.

What I saw saturday was lots of quick feet short passes and intricate play which I don''t think is Holts game.

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