Sorry to be lefty Guardain reading pain but...

[Beauseant 0]

[quote user="ron obvious"]
Absolutely, Beau, having ideals, i.e. maintaining that there is a set of moral codes to aspire to is good, but to turn it intoan ideology is senseless. Fundamentally it''s because we live in a physical world over which we have limited control. We are fortunate that at the moment our environment is in a benign phase, we can produce food in abundance & thus are able to grant ourselves all sorts of ''natural human rights'' about which Nature doesn''t give a fig.
It''s unfortunate, but greed & self-interest are pretty good survival mechanisms, particularly when there really isn''t enough to go round.

Political systems & institutions should work so as to bring out the inherent goodness in people. How to work that particular trick has thus far proved elusive.

Anyway, bring on the Watford!

OTBC!


[/quote]

It''s no coincidence that altruism and wealth go hand in hand. It''s relatively easy to be benificent when it makes a minor dent in your resources (cf Sting, Bono etc), but if your family are on the breadline it''s a different matter, hence the correlation between poverty and crime. I would love to think that I''m a better person than I am, and I do try to live by my socialist priciples, but I know that if the chips were down I would resort to those survival mechanisms, as would most people.

 

[YankeeCanary 0]

[quote user="PurpleCanary"]
Yankee, one significant factor in the States was that Greenspan was chairman of the Fed for 18 years (serving Reagan, both Bushes and Clinton) and was a self-confessed cheerleader for deregulation of the banks. His reputation has obviously taken a knock now but at the time  he was very highly regarded and his opinions carried a great deal of weight with Republicans as well as Democrats.

[/quote]

True, PC, but deregulation in and of itself is not a bad thing. It was not just what Greenspan wanted. Most business leaders, leading economists and public sentiment were all for it too. In fact, over the long haul, it is what has contributed to the USA being recognised as the major economy in the world driving, above all else, efficiency. Financial institutions did not stoop to the stupidity level in their practices because of deregulation. Deregulation had existed in varying degrees for a long, long time. They were being pushed to take risks ( by providing large loans to people who clearly could not afford the burden )by leading government officials who dictated policy in the financial areas . The institutions were uncomfortable carrying that risk but because the players in the industry could not agree on how to push back against the government influence ( and fearful of losing competitive advantage ) they went along and off-loaded some of the risk. Or so they thought. The rest is history. We hope.    

[ron obvious 1,502]

Beau - that''s JCC in your avatar? Chickentown (evidently)? Amazing!Liked him from years ago (Kung Fu International) & by a strange quirk he''s washed up in Wivenhoe, where my friend runs a bookshop & organises poetry readings  & suchlike - I''ve chatted to him a couple of times & he''s a real good laugh & genuine bloke; I''m worried he''s not looking after himself though as he was a bit random the last time we spoke. Apparently he''s just been discovered (again) & has never had so much work. Did you see him recently? I can''t remember if he was going to Norwich on his last tour - did you see him? I''ve only seen him perform once. I''m afraid I was very drunk ...Did you see Oil City Confidential a while back? Wilko as a hippy schoolteacher!

[Beauseant 0]

[quote user="ron obvious"]

Beau - that''s JCC in your avatar? Chickentown (evidently)? Amazing!

Liked him from years ago (Kung Fu International) & by a strange quirk he''s washed up in Wivenhoe, where my friend runs a bookshop & organises poetry readings  & suchlike - I''ve chatted to him a couple of times & he''s a real good laugh & genuine bloke; I''m worried he''s not looking after himself though as he was a bit random the last time we spoke. Apparently he''s just been discovered (again) & has never had so much work. Did you see him recently? I can''t remember if he was going to Norwich on his last tour - did you see him?
I''ve only seen him perform once. I''m afraid I was very drunk ...

Did you see Oil City Confidential a while back? Wilko as a hippy schoolteacher!


[/quote]

I haven''t seen him live since the 70s, but I think he''s a fantastic poet. Beasley Street is a gem of the Thatcherite era and showed that he was much more than a comedy act - "Keith Joseph smiles and a baby dies in a box on Beasley Street"

I''m not surprised that he''s in a state, he was always seemed a little "elsewhere". Interestingly Lord Horn was telling me that his mate ran of with JCC''s wife when they were students in Salford. Apparently the line " She lives in 1999 with her new boyfriend, a blob of slime" refers to said mate! Small world isn''t it? Oh, and my best mate at University once passed a bog roll to Mick Jones who had run out in the cubicle next to him in Dingwalls!

[Beauseant 0]

[quote user="Beauseant"]

[quote user="ron obvious"]

Beau - that''s JCC in your avatar? Chickentown (evidently)? Amazing!

Liked him from years ago (Kung Fu International) & by a strange quirk he''s washed up in Wivenhoe, where my friend runs a bookshop & organises poetry readings  & suchlike - I''ve chatted to him a couple of times & he''s a real good laugh & genuine bloke; I''m worried he''s not looking after himself though as he was a bit random the last time we spoke. Apparently he''s just been discovered (again) & has never had so much work. Did you see him recently? I can''t remember if he was going to Norwich on his last tour - did you see him?
I''ve only seen him perform once. I''m afraid I was very drunk ...

Did you see Oil City Confidential a while back? Wilko as a hippy schoolteacher!


[/quote]

I haven''t seen him live since the 70s, but I think he''s a fantastic poet. Beasley Street is a gem of the Thatcherite era and showed that he was much more than a comedy act - "Keith Joseph smiles and a baby dies in a box on Beasley Street"

I''m not surprised that he''s in a state, he was always seemed a little "elsewhere". Interestingly Lord Horn was telling me that his mate ran of with JCC''s wife when they were students in Salford. Apparently the line " She lives in 1999 with her new boyfriend, a blob of slime" refers to said mate! Small world isn''t it? Oh, and my best mate at University once passed a bog roll to Mick Jones who had run out in the cubicle next to him in Dingwalls!

[/quote]

 

Whoops, missed the Wilko question first time round. Yes, I''ve seen it. He certainly looked pretty nonconformist, and what a loss to music if he''d stuck with it. Saw him live recently and he''s still wonderful!

[26mjw 0]

I''m sorry for being tardy to the party here, but whoever said Labour''s ideal is that no one person should be richer than another is utter b*llocks, even with a left wing Labour party. It''s even more b*llocks with the New Labour party that''ve had control for the last few years.

[ron obvious 1,502]

Ta Beau. 1970s? - that''s 30 odd years ago - that''s impossible, that''d mean I''m ....Christ we''re all getting old.Seeing your selection of snappy taglines makes me think I should try a few ... think I might try & raise the tone ... hmmm ...

[PurpleCanary 5,558]

[quote user="YankeeCanary"]

[quote user="PurpleCanary"]Yankee, one significant factor in the States was that Greenspan was chairman of the Fed for 18 years (serving Reagan, both Bushes and Clinton) and was a self-confessed cheerleader for deregulation of the banks. His reputation has obviously taken a knock now but at the time  he was very highly regarded and his opinions carried a great deal of weight with Republicans as well as Democrats.[/quote]

True, PC, but deregulation in and of itself is not a bad thing. It was not just what Greenspan wanted. Most business leaders, leading economists and public sentiment were all for it too. In fact, over the long haul, it is what has contributed to the USA being recognised as the major economy in the world driving, above all else, efficiency. Financial institutions did not stoop to the stupidity level in their practices because of deregulation. Deregulation had existed in varying degrees for a long, long time. They were being pushed to take risks ( by providing large loans to people who clearly could not afford the burden )by leading government officials who dictated policy in the financial areas . The institutions were uncomfortable carrying that risk but because the players in the industry could not agree on how to push back against the government influence ( and fearful of losing competitive advantage ) they went along and off-loaded some of the risk. Or so they thought. The rest is history. We hope.    

[/quote]Indeed, Yankee. The point I was trying (hamfistedly) to make was that because Greenspan''s views (a speech was a bit like Moses coming down from the mountain) carried enormous weight IF he had spoken out against too much deregulation or warned of the risks that were building up in the (deregulated) system then that would have been listened to, and quite possibly acted on. As it was he kept championing deregulation and underestimating the risks. It was what he didn''t say that added to the disaster.

[Beauseant 0]

[quote user="ron obvious"]
Ta Beau. 1970s? - that''s 30 odd years ago - that''s impossible, that''d mean I''m ....

Christ we''re all getting old.

Seeing your selection of snappy taglines makes me think I should try a few ... think I might try & raise the tone ... hmmm ...


[/quote]

 

I recently ran into someone I hadn''t seen since graduation, who opened the conversation with " So, what have you been doing for the last quarter of century or so?" It''s bloody depressing!

Raising the tone on here, particularly during the school holidays, would not represent a herculean task![:P]

[Smudger 0]

...or perhaps you should do some thinking for yourself Andy???  Instead of believing all that the press and the media has to tell you!