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Squire

A huge step up??

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Several posters have stated that the step up from League One to the Championship is HUGE.

I beg to differ. Champs to Prem certainly, I would say.

Personally, I see no one to fear this season. Last year WBA and Toon were obvious candidates for a quick return but I see no one this season. I really do think our chance is as good as any and better than most.

Apologies if this has been raised before.

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[quote user="First Jedi"]According to Craig Fleming - who played in every division - the biggest leap is L1 to Championship...[/quote]To be fair though, when did he play in the third tier? The quality of League One has undoubtedly improved over the last few years.

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yehh but think about top teams prem - man u , chelsea

Champ - nottm, brsitol, mborough

League 1 - charlton, soton whoever got relegated from champ this season(cnt remember)

I think looking at that its champ to prem

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I think the gap in quality is the same from L1 to Champ as it is Champ to Prem.

Theres no reason why we can''t beat teams like Coventry but a team like Coventry is still some way better than a Carlisle.

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Theres no reason why we can''t beat teams like Coventry but a team like Coventry is still some way better than a Carlisle.

 

obviously?

Not really explaining your point there

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I think i''m right in saying that of the last 15 teams to get promoted from League 1 to the Championship, only 4 have gone down again during their first season. (Southend, Colchester, Scunthorpe, and Peterborough)

From the Premier, during the same 5 year span, i make it 7 of the 15 promoted teams have come back down in their first season.

The facts don''t lie! ;-)

More importantly, a lot of the teams promoted from League 1 end up doing very well. Bristol City reached the playoff final, and Leicester the playoffs, for example. I''m sure there''s others, too.

So for me, the gap between the Premier and Championship has to be bigger...

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We''re going to be playing much better sides every weekend. It''s a very unpredictable league and there are a lot more sides in the Championship that will be genuinely competing for a top 6 place than there were in League 1.

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[quote user="thirdlion"]L1 to Championship is a bigger jump, for me, than Champ to Prem.
[/quote]

Erm - you what?

The rumours had promotion being worth anywhere between £3-£5million to us.

Promotion to the prem is rumoured to be worth £30-£50million. And in further contrast you get more money in parachute payments for being relegated to the Championship than you do for getting promoted into it.

How does that prove a difference? More money to spend means that you can pay out more for quality.

I think there is less of a difference in budgets between league 1 and Championship these days and this only goes to serve how big the gap is between the top two divisions.

Another comparison would be to look at Newcastle and compare them to other premiership teams, you would have to say they are going to struggle. Where as you compare us to other championship sides and I simply don''t think it will be such a big struggle.

I am not daft and am not getting carried away with the idea we will get a shot at promotion/play offs but I don''t see mid-table as being out of our reach.

To add to that we still have some very capable championship players in our squad. When I say capable they have played at that level and at least proven they can do a good job and not look out of their depth.

Then you have the likes of Martin, Hoolahan, Ward and Surman who have shone to degrees at this level.

But anyone who says the step up between League One and the Championship is larger than that between Championship and the Premiership is sadly delusioned.

You have teams in the prem who are getting an additional budget from Champions League and Europa League not to mention owners who can invest vast sums and huge sponsership deals etc.

Look at the three teams up this year from the two divisions. Newcastle, WBA and Blackpool. In the prem you would expect one of them to stay up if they are lucky. Compare that to us, Leeds and Millwall - I think Millwall could struggle but they are certainly no worse than some of the other clubs in our league, but you would more likely put money on us and Leeds staying up.

I guess what I am saying is when promoted into the premiership you are usually looking at trying to get better results than three to five teams. In the Championship you could expand that to eight to ten teams and its not unreasonable.

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I''ve done a bit of research and here''s how all the promoted sides from the third tier in the last decade fared in their first season at a higher level:2000-01:  Preston North End (4th, playoff finalists), Burnley (7th), Gillingham (13th)2001-02:  Millwall (5th), Rotherham United (21st), Walsall (18th)2002-03:  Brighton & Hove Albion (23rd, relegated), Reading (4th), Stoke City (21st)2003-04:  Wigan Athletic (7th), Crewe Alexandra (18th), Cardiff City (13th)2004-05:  Plymouth Argyle (17th), Queens Park Rangers (11th), Brighton & Hove Albion (20th)2005-06:  Luton Town (10th), Hull City (18th), Sheffield Wednesday (19th)2006-07:  Southend United (22nd, relegated), Colchester United (10th), Barnsley (20th)2007-08:  Scunthorpe United (23rd, relegated), Bristol City (4th, playoff finalists), Blackpool (19th)2008-09:  Swansea City (8th), Nottingham Forest (19th), Doncaster Rovers (14th)2009-10:  Leicester City (5th), Peterborough United (24th, relegated), Scunthorpe United (20th)So in the last ten seasons, I make that four sides relegated straight back to League One, two who reached the playoff final, and a further three who went out in the semis.  Out of the other 21, only six finished in the top half.  Rounded to the nearest whole number, the average finishing position of these promoted sides is 15th.Now this, of course, does not have a lot of bearing on us and what we are going to do ourselves.  15th would be par for the course as far as promoted sides go but I wonder how many people would be content with that come next May?

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I would say the step is about the same. In the past two years There has been two teams stay up and one team go back down to the Prem. Stoke and Hull in 08/09 stayed up and WBA got relegated. in 09/10 Birmingham and Wolves stayed up and Burnley got relegated.

From Div 1 to the Champ in 08/09 all 3 teams stayed up and in 09/10 two teams stayed up in Scunny and Leicester.

I''ve only compared the last couple of season because a) it fits my argumet :D and more importantly b) the strength of teams that are getting promoted and relegated are different each year as the different leagues progress.

Davo

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[quote user="Graham Humphrey"]I''ve done a bit of research and here''s how all the promoted sides from the third tier in the last decade fared in their first season at a higher level:2000-01:  Preston North End (4th, playoff finalists), Burnley (7th), Gillingham (13th)2001-02:  Millwall (5th), Rotherham United (21st), Walsall (18th)2002-03:  Brighton & Hove Albion (23rd, relegated), Reading (4th), Stoke City (21st)2003-04:  Wigan Athletic (7th), Crewe Alexandra (18th), Cardiff City (13th)2004-05:  Plymouth Argyle (17th), Queens Park Rangers (11th), Brighton & Hove Albion (20th)2005-06:  Luton Town (10th), Hull City (18th), Sheffield Wednesday (19th)2006-07:  Southend United (22nd, relegated), Colchester United (10th), Barnsley (20th)2007-08:  Scunthorpe United (23rd, relegated), Bristol City (4th, playoff finalists), Blackpool (19th)2008-09:  Swansea City (8th), Nottingham Forest (19th), Doncaster Rovers (14th)2009-10:  Leicester City (5th), Peterborough United (24th, relegated), Scunthorpe United (20th)So in the last ten seasons, I make that four sides relegated straight back to League One, two who reached the playoff final, and a further three who went out in the semis.  Out of the other 21, only six finished in the top half.  Rounded to the nearest whole number, the average finishing position of these promoted sides is 15th.Now this, of course, does not have a lot of bearing on us and what we are going to do ourselves.  15th would be par for the course as far as promoted sides go but I wonder how many people would be content with that come next May?[/quote]Certainly interesting (and slightly surprising to me) that not one team has gone straight through to the Premier League, even via the play-offs. It lends weight to the argument that there is a significant gap in quality between tier three and tier two.

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[quote user="KING OF NandP"]

 

Theres no reason why we can''t beat teams like Coventry but a team like Coventry is still some way better than a Carlisle.

 

obviously?

Not really explaining your point there

[/quote]

Sorry!

Okay then, what I am saying is, is that there is quite a big difference between League 1 and the Championship.  And if you look at an average League 1 team (Carlisle) and an average Championship team (Coventry), the average Championship team is still quite a bit better than the average League 1 team, therefore making the difference in quality fairly big.  So overall when we were beating teams like Carlisle (not necessarily Carlisle but teams of that standard) comfortably the same Championship version would be a lot harder to beat and they are the teams we need to beat therefore making our season harder.

I''m not really sure quite how much explaining I need to do but I think it''s pretty self explanitary anyway but has this cleared it up for you?  Because personally I would be more confused with what I wrote the second time!

What I wrote there wasn''t saying about how I think the gap in quality is just as big from L1 to NPC and NPC to Prem because I said that in another bit of my post.  I was just talking about the jump we are now making specifically.

I have probably confused everyone now!

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I think the real difference is between the top & botom of the respective divisions. The Championship is by far the most homogeneous; who thinks we are any worse than Blackpool? But then compare Blackpool to Manure, Liverpool - or any team in the top half of the Prem. Likewise there were some seriously ropey teams at the bottom of L1 last year.Coming up from the Champ. having a decent bash at the bottom half dozen or so in the Prem. is feasible. Consistently playing with the Big Boys however ...

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You all seem to be forgetting that last year was the first and only year in about 50 in a league lower than the second tier.

I think we''ll be okay.

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[quote user="Ooh Ahh Lee Power"]IMO the step up sint as big but there are still teams who will be better set for success than us. Middlesborough the obvious one.[/quote]Don''t have as much confidence in Boro as many do.Agree with what you said, but I feel QPR, Forest and Reading have better teams. I just don''t rate Strachan, or Law at Burnley.

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Brian laws has got a terrible managerial record and wonder when he''ll be sacked

However, although strachan talks out of his **** I think boro will be top 2

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