Too much Change = loss of momentum

[Ulf Ottosson 0]

Bit worried that the starting XI has changed so much that the team will play like a group of strangers. Given that the first choice team this season is likely to be

Ruddy, Smith K, Whitbread, Ward, Drury, Crofts, Fox, Surman, Wes, Jackson, Holt

compare that against last years

Forster, Martin, Askou, Doc, Drury, Russell, Smith, Lappin, Wes, Martin and Holt

That''s 8 changes from last season given the way the team played that''s a massive upheaval!! Basically we have a brand new defence and midfiled i fear that a poor start will equal a relegation fight and we will lose the winning mentality we built up last season. Momentum in football is just massive and turning it around is so difficult it took relegation last time for us to turn it round.

[Cj 0]

DW, be happy

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 2,035]

For a start I believe R.Martin,C.Martin and Nelson will retain their places for the start of the season , that would only mean 5 changes from last years side.

I may hve shared you concerns ,particularly in the midfield department,but from what I''ve seen so far the new look trio of Fox,Surman and Crofts appeared to have gelled already.

[Lincs CR 0]

Well, to begin with, last season was more like this:

Forster, Martin, Doc, Nelson, Drury, Russell, Smith, Lappin, Wes, Martin, Holt

This seasons based on Lambert''s "first team" from pre-season will be this:

Ruddy, Martin, Ward, Nelson, Drury, Fox, Crofts, Surman, Wes, Martin, Holt.

This means a new goalkeeper, one new defender, 3 new midfielders and none up front, making 4 outfield changes compared to the 7 you suggest.

[Lincs CR 0]

Saying all of the above, I somehow understand your concerns though... it''s pretty much a whole new midfield however I''m not worried whatsoever about Surman as he seems to ooze class and is a real top signing for us, the only thing that worries me is losing Russell and having Fox who is naturally a passer in the holding roll... that''s probably the only unsettling change that will take time to come good.

[tom1902 0]

Why does everyone keep putting Korey Smith at right back?

Yes, he may well be able to play there, but he wont be first choice in that position

[Lineo 0]

I agree with what you''re saying, it''s dangerous and is quite a risk.. but I rest my faith within Lambert and I''m now very excited.

[Lincs Canary 0]

I image crofts being a more russell style player, which means if needed he can slot in at the base and k. smith or someone slot in on the right. Someone correct me if I am wrong as I havent seen him play yet.

[Lincs CR 0]

Well Lincs, I think we all thought that Crofts would replace Russell, myself included, however in pre-season David Fox has played the holding role zipping passes about, and Crofts has taken up the Korey Smith role on the right contributing to attacks... I guess we''re not short of options though...

[Ulf Ottosson 0]

I don''t doubt we need to freshen the team up a bit but think evolution rather than revolution.

I think the failure to resign the doc, russell and forster may come back to bit us.

Plus i''m a bit annoyed that for the first time since early Worthy that we had a settled side that''s now gone and I don''t think it''s a good thing. LAst year about 14 players plus a few cameos won us promotion they were Forster, Martin, spillane, nelson , askou, doc, drury, lappin, smith, russell, hughes, wes, martin and holt - only wes, holt and drury are definite starters this year that''s a bit sad and the other players deserve better

I personally hope last year hasn''t gone to lambert head - the turning point in my eyes was when in turned to Doherty, Wes and Russell and stuck them back in the side and we did''nt look back.

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 2,035]

[quote user="Ulf Ottosson"]I don''t doubt we need to freshen the team up a bit but think evolution rather than revolution. I think the failure to resign the doc, russell and forster may come back to bit us. Plus i''m a bit annoyed that for the first time since early Worthy that we had a settled side that''s now gone and I don''t think it''s a good thing. LAst year about 14 players plus a few cameos won us promotion they were Forster, Martin, spillane, nelson , askou, doc, drury, lappin, smith, russell, hughes, wes, martin and holt - only wes, holt and drury are definite starters this year that''s a bit sad and the other players deserve better I personally hope last year hasn''t gone to lambert head - the turning point in my eyes was when in turned to Doherty, Wes and Russell and stuck them back in the side and we did''nt look back.[/quote]

We''ve still got 10 of those 14 at the club!!!, of the other 4, Spillane didn''t feature that much, there was nothing we could have done about Forster as Newcastle want to keep him, Doherty wasn''t deemed good enough for the championship (which IMO he isn''t), and Russell pi$$ed us about.

you say that Hoolahan,Holt and Drury are the only definate starters, as I''ve said all of the others are still here from last season, if Lambert feels they are better than the new intake they will play??

[SUPER YELLOW CANARY 0]

Lineo, didnt imply that im hard? just that i want him to suck my dick. now go change your avatar to a player that plays for norwich  [;)]

[Guest]

[quote user="Ulf Ottosson"]Bit worried that the starting XI has changed so much that the team will play like a group of strangers. Given that the first choice team this season is likely to be

Ruddy, Smith K, Whitbread, Ward, Drury, Crofts, Fox, Surman, Wes, Jackson, Holt

compare that against last years

Forster, Martin, Askou, Doc, Drury, Russell, Smith, Lappin, Wes, Martin and Holt

That''s 8 changes from last season given the way the team played that''s a massive upheaval!! Basically we have a brand new defence and midfiled i fear that a poor start will equal a relegation fight and we will lose the winning mentality we built up last season. Momentum in football is just massive and turning it around is so difficult it took relegation last time for us to turn it round.[/quote]I find it difficult to believe that a) Korey Smith will start ahead of Russell Martin at right back, and b) Jackson will keep Martin out of the side. Chrissy has been head and shoulders above the other strikers in the two friendlies I''ve seen so far, is working hard, and looks to have bulked up. You say that Whitbread is likely to be a first choice player, but surely by the time he is back to full fitness and in the squad the remaining team members will have gelled anyway? Did you go the Newcastle or Everton matches? It looks like the midfield have already forged a good understanding, and we showed a lot of good quality build-up play during these matches. They definitely don''t look like a team of strangers, that''s for sure.I can understand your concerns about the defence, and I think a good start is crucial if we want to push on into the top 10 this season, but I think that overall you are being a little pessimistic. Lambert has improved the quality of the midfield drastically, and it''s my belief that they have enough quality about them to make up for any lack of knowledge in each other''s play which may be present at the start of the season. Martin and Jackson also seem to be getting to know each other rather quickly, although I can see a Holt/Martin partnership being preferred again anyway.

[Pabs 0]

Remember : "In Lambert we Trust."

All together now...

[Davo 0]

Ulf going back 12 months we were in exactly the same position as we''re in now of all those players you''ve listed from last year:

Forster, Martin, spillane, nelson , askou, doc, drury, lappin, smith, russell, hughes, wes, martin and holt

Only Doc, Russell, Drury, Lappin and Wes were at the club for the season. Players who are the same as last season are: Drury, R Martin, Nelson, Korey, Lappin, Wes, Hughes, Holt, C Martin.

While I share your concerns slightly I''m not too worried and I would argue there have been less changes this pre-season than there was last pre-season.

By the time we kick off at Watford all but Jackson would of had a month of pre-season together and th e area of biggest change, the midfield, by all accounts seems to be gelling nicely.

Davo

[Patches OHoolahan 0]

[quote user="Lineo"][quote user="Bowgy"][quote user="Ulf Ottosson"]Bit worried that the starting XI has changed so much that the team will play like a group of strangers. Given that the first choice team this season is likely to be

Ruddy, Smith K, Whitbread, Ward, Drury, Crofts, Fox, Surman, Wes, Jackson, Holt

compare that against last years

Forster, Martin, Askou, Doc, Drury, Russell, Smith, Lappin, Wes, Martin and Holt

That''s 8 changes from last season given the way the team played that''s a massive upheaval!! Basically we have a brand new defence and midfiled i fear that a poor start will equal a relegation fight and we will lose the winning mentality we built up last season. Momentum in football is just massive and turning it around is so difficult it took relegation last time for us to turn it round.[/quote]Really?Suck My D*ck[/quote]You''re hard.[/quote]How can you tell?

[smooth 114]

I think some of these changes are because quite simply the new players are better, instead of buying squad players we have bought better players.

Fox, crofts and surman... for me walk over the three we had in midfield last year... still think adeyemi will be a better prospect than korey.

martin and holt will remain upfront, nothing from jackson makes me feel he will be a better fit than martin

ruddy, simply we got a good young keeper in as we couldn''t get forster... centre backs once all fit I think whitbread and ward will be the starters... but as mentioned on many posts the player in form, by others, and fit is nelson.

Steven smith for me will take over from drury at left back at some point, once drury gets his injury after a few months he will not get a sniff of a first team place.

To be honest completely happy with lamberts choices... momentum won''t be lost, but with new hungry players being here for a few months now (something that I have been shouting for ncfc to do for years when in the summer window) and feeling the buzz, we are ready

[Webbo118 0]

Criticised if you don''t sign new players, criticised if you do.

[Matt Morriss 69]

This thread is a joke, Smith WILL NOT start at right back, and not least because he''s injured. Whitbread is nowhere near the starting 11 and it will be Martin and probably Holt up front.

And if you''d been to any of the last 2 friendlies you would have seen a team singing from the same hymn sheet and in no way were they a ''group of strangers''.

[Felixfan 53]

Momentum is a psychological effect and it involves not just players but managers,staff and fans. It is interesting to note that all of the new signings have mentioned this feeling. In any event momentum is transitory and can only get you so far. When the chips are down it is quality that counts coupled with a slice of luck.

[Matt Morriss 69]

[quote user="Bowgy"]Lineo, didnt imply that im hard? just that i want him to suck my dick. now go change your avatar to a player that plays for norwich  [;)] [/quote]

I think your on the wrong forum son..

[Jacko 0]

To be honest I think the midfield needed to improve and it is the massive strength of the team now. As a unit they did well last season and but even last season I didn''t feel there were that many games where the midfield were completely in control of a game. I think the new players have settled quickly and are all aware of their roles. Crofts and Surman add strength and have the potential to arrive late in the box and score goals based on what I saw against Everton on Saturday. Even if Crofts scoring record up until now is fairly modest. But I was particularly impressed by how Fox is being utilised as a deep lying playmaker to start our attacks. I thought as a result we zipped the ball around really nicely on Saturday. That was my major criticism of Russell, I felt he gave the ball away too cheaply at times. Although we might miss his physcality at times I reckon.

[Joanna Grey 0]

Amazing that so much sensible discussion can arise from a flawed premise.

[jb 0]

interesting article (if you''re that way inclined) on the changing role of the ''holding'' midfielder (seems particularly relevant when discussing Russell/Fox):  http://www.zonalmarking.net/2010/07/30/central-midfield-role/.

zonalmarking.net is well worth a look in general, actually.  Enjoy!

 

jb

[CambridgeCanary 0]

jb, that was more than interesting; a really insightful piece which if all posters read it would lead to actual informed debate on this and many other subjects.

Many thanks and repect to you.

[I am a Banana 0]

[quote user="Ulf Ottosson"]Bit worried that the starting XI has changed so much that the team will play like a group of strangers. Given that the first choice team this season is likely to be Ruddy, Smith K, Whitbread, Ward, Drury, Crofts, Fox, Surman, Wes, Jackson, Holt compare that against last years Forster, Martin, Askou, Doc, Drury, Russell, Smith, Lappin, Wes, Martin and Holt That''s 8 changes from last season given the way the team played that''s a massive upheaval!! Basically we have a brand new defence and midfiled i fear that a poor start will equal a relegation fight and we will lose the winning mentality we built up last season. Momentum in football is just massive and turning it around is so difficult it took relegation last time for us to turn it round.[/quote]

When we went to the prem last time worthy got almost a whole new team and we suffered. But i do think that Lambert has brought in some quality in midfield im just unsure about the defence.

[ref89 0]

Anyone who saw us against Newcastle or Everton will know this thread is irrelevant.

[Davo 0]

Thank you jb that article iw well worth a read.

Disclaimer: I''m not comparing quality or skill level more formation and style of play.

I see our midfield as an evolution.

We''ve gone from an almost Chelsea style - Russell was our Makalele (destructive DM), Korey our Essien (Combative box to box player) Lappin was out Ballack (ok this is a bit different but bare with me), Hoolahan is our Lampard (playing at the top of the diamond in an attacking role).

To more of an AC Milan style - Fox is our Pirlo (a deep lying plamaker), Crofts is our Gattuso (a box to box player but hoepfully not as annoying), Surman is our Seedorf (A good skillful player), Hoolahan is our Kaka (A skillful almost purley attacking player who doesn''t offer much defensivly).

Both styles worked for their respective clubs and I can''t see any reason why the new system won''t for us.

Davo

 

[star_manic 0]

interesting to note that russell has still to find a club with only 4 days to kick (it)off. while admitting that he was very good in part in league one, it seems championship clubs are not convinced of his worth at the higher level. plus he''s probably overestimating his value, as he did with us when he wanted more money.

[Bogbrush 0]

[quote user="Pabs"]Remember : "In Lambert we Trust."

All together now...[/quote]

Jeez, give it a rest with the "In Lambert We Trust" b o l l o c k s