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Morten Olsen re Thomas Helveg

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Interesting comments from Morten Olsen today regarding Helveg and his lack of appearances - the most telling for me being the quote:

 "If the Norwich people don''t want to develop their way of playing football why do they get players like Helveg? It looks like buying Helveg was not thought through."

What does that tell us about our ability to adapt our style of play to suit the Premiership? What odds he starts on Saturday against Southampton?

The other interesting point was:

"Thomas is a man who according to the official statistical material from Euro 2004 was the best defender of all."

Do we not think we need that now!!?

I was impressed with him as a Sub against West Brom, but otherwise he has been ok/average at best, but the facts surely don''t lie and given the commitment of an extended run surely he can add some organisation to our back 4 that we really need?

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He deserves an extended run out now i believe.

Though i would never question the commitment of any of the players who have appeared so far there is no doubt that some of them are simply not good enough for this level of football. Helveg hasnt made so many appearances for Denmark by being an average player. I do wonder tho if initially at least we could question his level of fitness.

Lets hope he gets the chance to show us what he really can do!

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It''s a difficult one - he''s not impressed so far, but has been played out of position.  He''s main place is as Right Back, but I think Eddie''s been doing a good job so far.

Perhaps Helveg should just be patient and wait for his chance which I''m sure will come.  Then prove why he should be picked every week.

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I can''t believe a player with Helveg''s quality hasn''t featured more, but he steady eddy has been pretty good. However, it seem that Helveg possesses the sort of class city badly need. However, when he has played he hasn''t really done very well...:

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I have to agree with Olsen. Helveg is an international player and would be better than what we have (eddy). Eddy has been getting progressively worse since the start of the season. Helveg hasn''t even had a run in the side to establish him self in the premier league. Worthy seems to have a problem, because he signs a player for right back then plays him right midfield (which he clearly isn''t a right winger). The same with Doherty, Worthy signed him for the centre of defence and plays him up front (which again he clearly is no striker). Both of these players are internationals and they are not in the starting line-up. Sort it out worthy before it''s to late.

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It''s hard to tell with Helveg. I thought he looked great when he came on against West Brom and was getting forward and putting crosses in. But against Everton he looked awful and was taken off at half-time. But to be fair to him, I don''t think he''s been given enough chances to settle in. He''s the captain of Denmark, played in world cups and european championships and played in the champions league for both Milan clubs, so he''s got to be fairly good hasn''t he?  

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This is a difficult one because I don''t think Helveg has been very good when he has played. Some Premiership players have left him standing which meant Thomas has resorted to foul play more than once because he got beat to the ball.

I also think that although Marc Edworthy puts in a lot of commitment, he has been at fault with more than a few conceded goals this season. He has not got much of a head for height when the crosses come in and I feel he is as good as he will ever be.

One thing I know is true, Helveg has not had a decent run in the side yet out of the 12 games so he at least deserves that...then we can fully judge.

Strange that Nige Boy said to Thomas that he is doing well and yet won''t play him!

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I have to agree with Olsen.   True Eddy has been steady.   But the fact of the matter is that steady is not enough for the premiership.   In the prem you need to be more than steady, and I think it is time for Helveg to be given a chance of an extended run at right full back.

In pre-season he was pure class.   He played well against Crystal Palace.  Then he had a poor game against Man U and was promptly dropped.   He is not the first player to be given a hard time by Ryan Giggs.

At the end of the day, if we don''t play him we''ll loose him.

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At the start of the season many were saying TH was Mr Versatile. Now we''re saying he can only play right-back!He was appalling vs Everton - worse than Hendo vs Blackburn who was pilloried - especially his passing which should have been better regardless of where he plays, and he has not impressed in his other, admittedly brief appearances that I have witnessed (i missed the wba spectacle).He won''t be the first import to fail in the Premiership.Why do you think we had no serious competition for his signature? If Worthy thought he would improve the defence and save his skin then he would play him, its ridiculous to suggest otherwise. Worthy is not going to drop Eddy because the Denmark manager wants him too.Personally I think we have more problems in the centre of defence than on the flanks so try him there by all means (we''ve got little to lose). I would like to succeed but he has to be patient and make the most of his chance if and when it comes. If he don''t like it he can bugger off (and take Jonson with him).

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I have been saying this for ages and now it looks like Helveg will finally lose patience if things don''t change soon.  The fact is if the manager lets a player get so frustrated before he gives him a game the chances are that the player won''t play particularly well when he does get a game.  I think Nigel is showing signs of poor man management with this situation.  There is no way on Earth that Eddy has done enough to keep a man of Helvegs class out of the team.  Eddy has been at total fault for 3 or 4 goals recently due to poor marking.  Helveg hasn''t been given a run in his position.  If he leaves on bad terms having not played it will be a sad day for Norwich.   Bottom of the league letting the best defender in Euro 2004 leave having only played 2 games in defence.

I am beginning to turn against Nigel with some of his decisions.  We have the best defender of Euro 2004 on the bench.  The best passer of the ball in the squad on the bench.   The most exciting player at the club on the bench.  The tallest and one of the fastest young talents on the bench.  In my opinion, Helveg, Mulryne, Bentley and Shacks all deserve a proper run in the team.  Players out should be Eddy, Holt, Leon and Drury.

Nigel seems to love the old school, the servants of the club, the Division 1 heros, the people with a strong work ethic.  Wake up people and Nigel, we need class in the Prem.   Yes Drury, Eddy and Holt are great Norwich heros and were a big part of our rise to the Prem, but they are getting worse not better, they are not Premiership players.   Helveg, Mulryne, Bentley and Shacks could be, but haven''t been given the chance.

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[quote]This is a difficult one because I don''t think Helveg has been very good when he has played. Some Premiership players have left him standing which meant Thomas has resorted to foul play more than once ...[/quote]

Some premiership players have left him standing!! I can think of one, Ryan Giggs!! Of course, mr Giggs hasn''t done that to anyone else in his career!

Other than the United game, defencevly i thought Helveg looked sound. The problem for me was that he gave the ball away too cheaply while looking for the quality pass to unlock defences. When these passes come off you look the absolute buiseness, unfortuanatly when they fail you look a bit of a plonker!!

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I have to say I didn''t think Helveg was *that* bad against Everton.  The whole team''s performance in the first half was utterly awful and he was by no means the worst in my opinion.  He gave the ball away too easily because he was being over ambitious in his passing.  The rest of the team just gave the ball away too easily.  My only worry is that twice this season we''ve conceded goals when he has been clearly visible just ambling back towards our penalty area like a pensioner at a game of bowls.  I think this is the reason he was taken off against Everton and why Nigel was so angry about his performance.   He must have a five or six game run though, I''m still confident he could become our best player but sadly I feel he will be allowed to leave.

Our defence has capitulated and has been awful for a number of weeks now.  In at least two matches we have been crying out for a defensive substitution and a bit of experience at the end of a match.  Instead of bringing on Helveg we''ve seen McVeigh + Henderson (two players I rate but totally inappropriate for the circumstances).  We almost lost our point at Man city as a result and did lose our win against Blackburn.  This makes me think Worthington just does not want to play him.

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You have to look at this in a number of ways.

First of all, is Helveg after a move? If he is, why not do it through a third party, eg the national coach.

Is he really the "best defender at Euro 2004" Where has this come from? He certainly is not from what I have seen, he is one of the worst. If he better than this, fine, but he has to prove it.

Is he better than Edworthy? Edworthy has made mistakes, but personally from what I have seen he is no better or worse than any of the back four at the moment, aside from Charlton, who has done a good job.

If he can show us "how good" he is, then he should play. He has a chance and it has not happened. You are not substituted at half time unless you are injured or you are having a poor game.

I am afraid that unless he can walk the walk, he can walk away as far as I am concerned.

 

 

 

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The only way for Helveg to show us how good he is is to play him & he has to play football to get up to the pace of kick and run that is premier football. As other posters have pointed out his passing against Everton was not successful mainly due to ambition.45 mins a game is not enough for him - like ANY other player he deserves a run out in a series of 5-6 games to prove his worth - Jonson is getting better and his class is starting to show - but it has taken 12 games.Helveg can play centre back too but does not give the height that most crave - I am sure he would bring a strong organisation sense though so should be a real option. Helveg with Shackell in the middle at the back?However of the defenders the one most directly linked to conceeded goals has been Eddie - his positioning and passing is poor and now amount of hard running and a couple of last ditch but highly impressive looking (but caused by his own poor positioning) tackles make up for that. To me the omission of our quality players and continual playing of favoured work horses is Worthys biggest failure so far.OTBC

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Helveg is his national teams captain , ok hes getting on a bit now , but he is being kept out of the side by Edworthy who is not up to premiership standard , Wolves released him on a free as soon as they got promoted so they realised this. We need to start getting our best players out on the pitch Helveg , Bentley , Safri , and Shackell should be given a run to. You wont survive in the Premiership with Division one players.

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I think over the last couple of weeks we have seen why we are bottom and heading straight back to Division 1. And the reason is simple - Worthington. If we were any other team, he would have been sacked by now. Our expectations are so low, that he will certainly keep his job if we go down. But the simple truth is that his lack of experience of managing at a higher level is beginning to shine through now, as he clings to to the principles which he values most in players, hard work ethic, honesty and professionalism. But quite simply, these are not enough in the Premiership, and unless Worthington can adapt his approach to management, or learn from the mistakes he is making, we will be long gone by February time.

I accept that he made an honest mistakes at the start of the season, after all he did not know if the squad would be good enough or not, and he had financial constraints to work within. But of the 8 players he signed, Ward, Gallacher, Saffri, Bently, Docherty, Helveg, Jonson and Charlton, with the exception of the latter, how many of them have improved the team or made an impact. None of them! We all bang on about "giving people time", hello people, 13 games gone, no wins, middle of November - how much time do they need!!!!!!! They are seasoned professionals many of them.

Worthington''s continued preference of graft over quality will see us disappear back to the Championship, without question. Holt was superb at the lower level, but sadly is being found out at this level. Just because Holt comes in for extra training doesn''t mean he should get in the team ahead of more gifted players, especially if he can''t keep possession.Our forwads lack the cutting edge in front of goal, even bravery to get on the end of things (when I say bravery, the willingness to break a nose or lose some teeth to make sure they are there on the end of the ball). Huckerby is a class act for us, but has ZERO support. McKenzie does okay, but not enough. He NEEDS fire in his belly. Svensson must MUST get in the box and compete. Maybe it''s time to try young Henderson up front in his preffered position. He is Norwich through and through, and I think has the bravery to get in there on the end of things, which the other two are failing at so badly. We need height in defence. Charlton''s first goal last weekend was straight out of the 1st division, long punt from free kick near halfway line, big def in box gets flick on, someone else heads it in. Get Docherty or Shackell in NOW. Helveg must have his chance. 93 caps, a veteran of Seira A, he must be better than Edworthy, a journeyman at Division 1 level. Edworthy has done well so far, but still, no room for sentiment.

I think the team must be under immense pressure this weekend. They must beat Southampton at all costs. Failure and I think it''s all over. This weekend is a MASSIVe game. The players must be playing as if their lives depend on it. It must be treated as a war. Play like Utd did v Arsenal a month ago. I am SO angry at the moment. Stop the excuses, they are wearing thin. We must win, and anything less than a win now is simply not good enough. I am fed up, and am no longer enjoying losing or nearly winning. We were thrashed at the weekend. The scoreline doesn''t lie.

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Shaun, you are missing the point - he hasn''t been given a chance.

Against Palace he was no worse than any other defender and certainly no worse than Eddy.

Against Man Utd, facing probably the best winger in the country, he was no worse than any other player and definitely no worse than Eddy.

Against Bristol he got rave reviews.

Against Everton he wasn''t in his best position and Kilbane scored when Eddy should have been marking him.

We all know he has the ability to be better than Eddy.  Eddy is getting worse, so whats the problem with giving him a run of games?

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Well as said earlier, if he can produce, he will play, it is as simple as that.

Reputations, National sides, "best defender in Euro 2004" etc mean nothing if he is not producing wearing a green and yellow shirt.

I have no problem in giving him a run of games, by all means, but if that run of games shows us all what many of us may already be thinking, then my earlier comments stand.  

 

 

 

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The Danish national team coach can moan all he likes. Helveg has been poor when he has played for Norwich City in the Premiership this season. Even against Bristol Rovers he was ordinary. Where anyone got the idea that Helveg got "rave reviews" for such a performance I have no idea. They clearly were not at Carrow Rd that night.Having said that, I am surprised Worthington has not played Helveg more often. He was effectively signed as a quality replacement for Edworthy which, though now seems laughable, was Worthy''s choice. Just as Safri was to replace Holt, Doherty to replace Fleming, Bentley to replace McVeigh, and the list goes on.Maybe it would be best for all parties concerned if Helveg left in the january transfer window - for a small fee hopefully. This would at least free up wages for a more appropriate replacement for Edworthy. We can only hope that Worthy signs someone better this time ''round though.

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Better than Thomas Helveg? Like who? And how do you know that they will be better than Edworthy when they wear the yellow and green?

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Wow - I''m amazed how many people have suddenly seen the light and realise that we need to be playing the guys we brought in with EXPERIENCE. No matter how hard Eddy, Flem, Holt etc try, they simply don''t have the experience of loads of caps for Denmark, Rep. Ireland, Morrocco, Sweden and so on - the type of experience we desperately need in this league, the type of players who have played against quality, often. These players are the types of players who will be able to give Hucks the support he deserves, play that extra fine ball to him where he can do the most damage, or be confident enough to shoot themselves, or (as we have seen from Jonson) hold onto the ball when there are no options, rather than punting it hopefully and thefore giving it away (the source of most of the goals scored against us).

Worthy''s had a lovely time being loyal to the boys but it''ll be a complete waste of time and money if he doesn''t start bedding these players in NOW. Some of our most loyal servants may be playing fairly well (Eddy, Francis) but it doesn''t mean those not even on the bench can''t play better.

My team for Sat:

Green, Helveg, Doherty, Charlton, Drury, Jonson, Safri, Mulryne/Francis, Bentley, Huckerby, McKenzie. Experience, pace, height, creativity. And hopefully some goals...

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Thank God for Morten Olsen. Worthington won''t listen to the fans, and he won''t see the evidence on the pitch. Maybe he''ll listen to an international manager. 87 caps, 5 world cups, voted best defender at Euro 2004. Hmmm. Not too shabby. The guy must have something and its up to Worthington to get it out of him. Edworthy was a good first division defender but is being regularly outclassed and Helveg just has to get a bit of a run. How can the poor sod show any form at all when he just gets a few bits of play here and there? If he is not performing after 5 or 6 games then review it but he''s got to have a chance.

BTW great passion from Canary Poirot- and so right. This Saturday is a massive massive game.

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Pete I was listening on Canaries World and every time Helveg had the ball they were saying how class he looked etc. etc., that''s where I formed my judgement, i.e. from 2 football commentators.   Okay Roy Waller is excitable, but no more than any other Norwich fan and I would have thought their opinions of a player were pretty spot on. 

I give up.  People keep saying Helveg is no better than Eddy!!!  OH MY GOD are you serious?  2 reasonable games at full back played by Helveg versus a pile of poo in the last 5 or 6 from Eddy.  Take off the first Division yellow and green specs when watching the players that do a lot of running for the club, but don''t actually produce anything.   Effort does not equal great.

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I agree with most of the sentiments which has been expressed here. Realistically, Edworthy shouldn''t be keeping a player like Helveg out of the lineup; he''s hardly setting the world alight himself. I watched Denmark in Euro 2004 and Helveg is a quality player.

It''s not just Helveg though. The fact is that the current setup is failing spectacularly. We need to try something drastically different or relegation is a certainty. If the changes don''t work, then so be it, but something has to be tried.

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Worthington shrugged off Olsen''s attack and said: "No-one is an automatic choice to play."

Except, of course, Gary Holt.

Unbelievable...

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Looks like the tried and tested response from Nigel there then! Thank God for the work ethic - it''s what makes our team so great eh!!?

What odds the standard 11 start on sat then (assuming Greeno to be ok)?

Having been told last Thursday that the team had worked hard to get the disappointment of Blackburn out of the system -> no change. Bet they''re working hard to get the disappointment of Charlton out of the system this week then -> no change again!

I''m not a believer in change for the sake of it at all, but heads have gone down a bit, Hucks needs to be in a position that makes him less predictable to the opposition (marked out of the last 4 games now!), the defence needs bl**dy well organising on the pitch by someone, and we have to play someone who can at least attempt to pass the ball through midfield. How can this happen without change - work ethic and getting the last (or next to last) disappointments out of the system?

That said I do think we will win this saturday - if only because probability is turning in our favour now, and my son can''t make it (which means I can rib him on Sunday!!)

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I can''t see the Great Dane figuring on Saturday as the Champions League-winning, best defender at Euro 2004 is in Georgia this week captaining his country...

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It sounded like none of them were happy, Helveg unhappy to be not playing (understandable), Worthy obviously not happy enough with him to give him a start, Olsen putting in his 2p worth obviously to get Helveg concentrating on the Danish front of things, no ones happy, and I reckon even if he did get a start this weekend, he''ll be crap anyway because he''s not settled or happy here anymore. Him and worhty gotta work things out before anything else, get it sorted, then move from there and get him into the game... a.s.a.p!!

Worthy either gets him out there, gets him playing regular, settling him down again! Or he goes, which he''ll be looking to do before not too long if that''s the case... shame really, if it came to that! Like many people have already said, a waste to have talent like that sitting out,

Perhaps some people are right, he doesn''t fit in here? His style of play isn''t suited for our game play right now, but if that''s the case worthy should''na got him! Or should use him proper?

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