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Gentleman Jim

Can't see Helveg playing for Norwich again....

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Why ?

Well for one Helveg has spoken out to the press and we know how Worthy deals with that !

And secondly Worthy dare not play him now because it will look as though he is bowing to external pressures in team selection wouldn''t it ?

The other thing that now concerns me is this episode coming close on the Bentley affair begins to suggest an unrest behind the scenes, where we were led to believe that harmony and team spirit were the order of the day. We wouldn''t have known about Helveg''s discontent had not his international coach broached the subject would we ?

How long before we find out about others having had words ? Mulryne, Brennen, Safri  maybe ! ! ! !

I''ve backed our manager in every post directed against him, but for the first time this season my usually optimistic outlook is becoming a little strained and I hope the dreaded expression " lost the dressing room " is not applicable here !

Tell me it aint so !

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If you continually upset the players it hardly amounts to a happy dressing room . The Bentley saga was comical to say the least , but do we really need to have one of our more skillfull players sitting out just so Worthington can prove hes the Guvnor , we are not overun with quality at the moment. Its a sod the team as long as i win childish attitude . What we need is a happy squad who want to get on the pitch and play their hearts out, not a squad of players bearing grudges. Worthington has made enough mistakes this season to have lost his job twice over if he was at any other club , fortunately for him the Norwich board love a yes man and Worthy fits the bill.

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well its certainly true that if Helveg makes the first team it will be a major departure from normal operating standards. Even if Worthington was considering him it would be only natural for him to shy away now, or risk a stream of similar stories in the local press. It is sad to see what little impact all of our new signings have made so far this year. Makes you think that maybe we should have stuck with what we had but invested everything in one striker who could score goals. Ultimately our inability to take half chances is what will doom us. We must start scoring and scoring first on Saturday and we must play either Mulryne or Safri as the midfield general to pass the ball to our team as opposed to the opposition. Every time you give it away you give them the opportunity to hurt you and we give it away alot.

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That''s why we''ve yet to win - we''ve stuck with what we''ve got. Most games finish with us fielding 10 players from the promotion-winning side and that''s exactly why we''re bottom of the table.

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The team is made up of 11 players at any one time, the squad however is probably about double that, can we accept the whinging from every fringe player that never makes it on Saturday afternoon - no. Is Worthington supposed to play everybody who he things is getting itchy feet? I doubt it. If you want first team footy then prove it by training hard and taking your chance when you get it, simple as that. Helveg, nice guy and all that, but he hasn''t taken his chance yet and needs to prove himself, I couldn''t give a monkeys about the past. As for Bentley, skillful maybe but finished article, nowhere near! When the teams does badly it''s easy to pick out individual players and then pretend that we have superior replacements which we don''t.

 

 

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How can you come out with that statement DD when nobody has had a chance to see what Helveg can do yet.  What does it say about our manager and coaching staff when they cannot find a place for a player who is captaining his country; unless you consider Denmark to be a poor side.

The same can be said of Safri who is highly rated in his national side, but doesn''t even get on our bench.  The problem is that both these players are talented and have played at a much higher level. 

It would seem that these players do not impress our manager enough at Colney for them to be in the starting eleven.  They probably have too much vision for our management who at the end of the day are not very adventurous when it comes to tactics.

I would like to know why our manager signed these players along with Doherty, and then proceeds to banish them from the first team.  Maybe at the end of the day he is not up to managing a team of talented players.

Watch out Saturday because if we don''t win, and more importantly he continues to show faith in a side that has not won in 13 games, then he will almost certainly hear the crowds feelings loud and clear. 

 

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Silver fox:definately "look out" if we lose on saturday... last time was bad enough I thought, but for it too happen again, and against southhampton... the fans will be fuming if we get nothing... although we are "best away support", at home may fast become another story... Helveg and Safri are both talented players, but I agree with people who have said that, "if they were up to the task, don''t you think worthy would play them"! Worthy isn''t beyond control, and he has to bow from pressure, albeit from the board atleast (ummmmmmm??????) and tow the line in certain respects... I cant see that he could possibly make stupendous errors of judgement just to save his own face! He may not listen to us... but he sure as hell has to listen to the hand that feeds him... I guess then it may come down to "what does the board really want?"... perhaps they want us to get relegated... although right now, I cant think why??? It could be that he has the board around his little finger, they can''t afford to give him the boot, pay him out, so he does what he wants... for now!Perhaps they want to get rid of worthy, but are happy for him to make a gas of it, so when he gets the boot at the end of the season, there''s no complaints... and the payout''s less...all conspiracy theories true... but what else??I''m no prem manager... I look to others for extra guidance As for seeing Helveg again... we will, but perhaps not for Norwich, he''s come forward... given his ultimatum effectively... and it''s a done deal I fear...

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Recalling how McVeigh was treated when he went public before his last contract talks there is no way Helveg will appear for the club on saturday - its just the way worthy deals with players who use the media to publicise their gripes.

However I have to disagree with our Forum Guru who sees no reason why Helveg should play. The guy has world class defending ability, knows how to mark people and play positionally. Yet he cant get on the pitch of a team that has shipped 23 league goals this season (in just 13 games) and that has made most under 11 kids teams look proficient defensively in the last couple of games?!? DDiM you have championed the case for players to be given a chance to show what they can do - Helveg has not had that chance at the expense of some honest guys who are simply not up to the job. Time to give class a chance - and not just 45 mins and then make them the fall guy. EDDIE MUST GO.

Time to remove those canary-tinted specs; the back four is a shambles, the central pairing looks abysmal, Fleming continualy stands off people and appears to be catching outofpositionitis from Edworthy. Going into this game with the same championship based back four would be the biggest mistake(and biggest example of pig-headedness) that Worthy has ever made.(Llewlyn on for Drury incl!!)

OTBC

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People keep saying that so far they have seen no evidence of Helveg deserving a place in the team.  The question I want answered is what exactly has Eddy done to secure his place in the team?  

In my opinion Helveg should have replaced Eddy after the Everton game and right now we would all be able to make an informed decision after a run of games as to who is the better player.

Others are saying trust in Nigel he sees them all week etc. etc.  Well we have all been watching Holt yes?   Has he done anything remotely useful in a match?   Mulryne came on and looked the part in the limited time he had.   If Holt starts over him on Saturday then that is a clear signal that Worthy is not up to the job.

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[quote]If you continually upset the players it hardly amounts to a happy dressing room . The Bentley saga was comical to say the least , but do we really need to have one of our more skillfull players sittin...[/quote]

premier 1

i agree with some of your post, especially regarding the fact worthy fields the team he hopes will do the business rather than the team he knows can, he is the type of manager who rates workrate above skill and it is costing us dear

however i would hardly call him a yes man, twice he has challenged the board, firstly over threatening to go to sheff wed, and as a consequence having his contract enhanced and extended, then last season his stance over huckerby.  That said, he is certainly well loved by the board, every public event i have attended their show of unity is always emphasised - i have to admit i try not to think about the suited ones too much (wiz will understand!) - to be honest the board will stick with someone who doesn''t give them too rough a ride, at the moment nige isn''t doing that.  They won''t sack him - we all know that, so the only way forward is for him to learn from his mistakes and start playing the best eleven we have

there isn''t going to be a super striker for christmas this year - but i think we will all settle for a few 3 pointers!  That said, i sincerely hope to see us start to play some decent stuff, and we can only do that with our flair players on the pitch. 

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StevenageFan, to claim Holt has done nothing is just utter dross, he gives 100% week in week out and whilst I admit is not the most cultured football player he does work very very hard in breaking up the opposition play. You cannot deny that? Mulryne will not cover anywhere near as much ground as Holt so give the guy some credit. it seems to me some of the more fickle fans are looking for scapegoats, give it a rest and support the team. As for Helveg, has he looked better than Edworthy in any of his spells so far? the answer of course is NO, that is why Edworthy is still playing.

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The only thing i can criticise worthy for is tying hucks up to the left. The rest he has done ok with for me. We''re not good enough is the simple fact but we continue to give it our best and you can''t ask for more. Helveg has had a few goes and bar a decent run out at West Brom has not cut it. He might be the dogs for his country but he''s a MAJOR disappointment in the premier league. Eddy on the other hand has been steady and on form alone he rightly gets the nod.

That said, after shipping 4 you HAVE to make changes - the signal it would send to the rest of the squad if you left well alone is one which would rip it apart. The doc, jim, shack and helveg should all expect to be in on saturday and any that are not will have every right to come out in the press and be jarred off.

It''s not scapegoats but you are only as good as your last game and if the manager is consistent with that there can be no complaints.

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[quote]That''s why we''ve yet to win - we''ve stuck with what we''ve got. Most games finish with us fielding 10 players from the promotion-winning side and that''s exactly why we''re bottom of the table.[/quote]

I know its a bit naughty of me to do this to you Peter, but as a moderator and City supporter, where do you sit on all this ''Worthy out'' debate?.

Or do you have to take a neutral stance?, ie. Pink Un employee etc.

Go on, I won''t tell a soul!.  

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I think my avatar and signature shows that my hands aren''t tied by the shackles of Archant. From a PinkUn point of view we can''t really be seen to be calling for the heads of either Worthy or Waller but this forum is all about free speech so we''ve let them go. A poll on either''s future is a step too far though.

Personally, I''m a great believer in keeping someone at the helm for more than a few years - didn''t we have 11 managers in 9 years during the dark days? Having said that, my patience is starting to wear a little thin with Worthy mainly because of his bizarre team selections. I''d like to see him stay at City though, for now...

Also, I''m not sure I''ve ever seen the boards this busy!

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It''s political now - Worthington can''t be seen to bow to pressure from Helveg or his national coach.

The fundamental issue here is: on such a limited budget, why sign players that don''t even make the squad?

NW obviously values work rate above all else, and I can''t fault any of the lads who''ve been playing each week for effort. But at some point the manager has to realise that this team, even at 100%, isn''t quite good enough to get the results we need.

He was given complete autonomy when it came to transfers (Safri, Bentley, Johnson, Helveg in and Mackay, Iwan out) so it''s time he put his money where his mouth is and showed some confidence in the players he signed. Surely they weren''t all brought in just to flesh out the squad?

One more thing, is NW going to be the last person in the world to realise that we need some height at the back? I was sympathetic to his decision on Mackay, in that Malky doesn''t have the pace to deal with the Henrys of this world, but he could organise the defence at set pieces and win some balls in the air. In January we need a commanding centre-half and a striker and the board needs to gamble somewhat.

 

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I''m with Gorleston Jim - my normal level of optimism is evaporating fast.

It is vital on Saturday that the team give everything plus - should we display anything less and go a goal down, I suspect the Worthy out brigade will be rolling.

But returning to this whole unsatisfactory mess, because that''s what it is, the level of inconsistencies in decision/team policy leaves me baffled.

Some of the team are out on their ear as soon as they put a foot wrong - ie Helveg, whereas others eg Jonson/Holt/Drury(of late) are given the benefit of the doubt week in week out.

Others have come in, taken their chances well and yet have been immediately dropped - Shackell, Brennan.

Where''s the consistency in that. Worthy''s often stated policy is - playing well, you''ll keep your place, play badkly and others will get an opportunity.

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[quote]I''m with Gorleston Jim - my normal level of optimism is evaporating fast. It is vital on Saturday that the team give everything plus - should we display anything less and go a goal down, I suspect th...[/quote]

spot on Twigge.  This is exactly what is making people mad with Nigel.

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[quote]StevenageFan , to claim Holt has done nothing is just utter dross, he gives 100% week in week out and whilst I admit is not the most cultured football player he does work very very hard in breaking u...[/quote]

I except your anger at my views of Holt.  I am not looking for scape goats at all.  The buck stops with Nigel, that is what we are debating, he picks the team and in my opinion Holt''s ability is not good enough.  Yes his dedication and work rate are 100%, but that isn''t enough in this league.  I can''t think of one tackle or pass that have either stopped the opposition scoring or led to a goal for us.  Breaking up the play, come on are you serious?  I could run round and do that.   The reason we need him breaking up their play is because he gave the ball to them in the first place.  Get some decent players like Helveg and Mullers in the team and I guarantee we hold onto the ball for longer and don''t need these headless chickens running about winning everyones admiration for their "effort".

I am fed up debating the Helveg selection.  So many people keep saying he has done nothing to prove his place - HE HASN''T BEEN GIVEN A RUN OF MORE THAN 2 GAMES IN HIS POSITION, end of story.  Eddy has and he hasn''t impressed, on that alone Helveg deserves 4 or 5 games to show us what he is capable of.

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RE Holt; "Breaking up the play, come on are you serious?  I could run round and do that."

Stevenage Canary;

I wouldn''t mind betting you couldn''t cover a fraction of the ground he covers, the headless chicken roll is an underated roll. Seriously I wish I could run like that. As for Mulryne, I bet he would cover less than half of the ground Holt covers, OK maybe with a more talented team we wouldn''t need to do some much tracking back and chasing but the simple fact is that we will need to do this all season and Holt does a good job of it. If and when he is dropped or doesn''t play I bet we miss his industry in the midfield, give the guy some credit, we didn''t win the Div 1 title by carrying 1 of our midfielders did we? I also thing Edworthy has look adequate so far but I agree we need to be patient with some new players so agree that Helveg should have a few games (he was bad against Man U mind).  

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[quote]RE Holt; "Breaking up the play, come on are you serious? I could run round and do that." Stevenage Canary; I wouldn''t mind betting you couldn''t cover a fraction of the ground he covers, the headles...[/quote]

marty

we won the first divsion title because we bought huckerby, the best player in that division by a mile, it was not due to our midfield, who even then were sadly lacking, it just wasn''t so obvious to anyone then

as for suggesting a poster (stevenage canary) couldn''t do holt''s job, of course not, he is not a pro footballer paid thousands a week - ask yourself this, could holt do stevenage''s job?  Using that as an arguement serves no purpose, we all pay holt''s wages for a start! 

it would be nice to see what mulyrne can do, ditto safri, if the team so far selected by worthy cannot win, then changes are needed, we are not playing the top teams now, but teams we must get points off if we are to stay up, it is time to stop praising people for trying hard, sometimes trying hard is not enough, we need skill, we need creativity and we need the ball on the floor

fast!

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Marty, you have got to be kidding yourself because the only thing that Holt has done so far has been to close down the open spaces and been the best man marker of the ref on the field.  He doesn''t tackle anyone, instead he sits back and watches the ball go past him.  I might be wrong but I don''t think he has even had a booking this season, which suggests he isn''t doing much to break up the play in midfield.  Great player last season at Div 1 level, but sadly out of his depth in the Premiership.

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