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Jethro

Bradford are bigger than Norwich!

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http://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/sport/sportbcfc/8272295.Loan_recruit__Bradford_City_belong_in_higher_division/?ref=rss

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"....in term of history"

Read the article carefully. They probably are bigger in terms of history.

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[quote user="MCWILL"]Bigger club than Norwich??? I thought this lad was hoping to go to Cambridge University? He''s fucked if he thinks Bradford are a bigger club![/quote]

And they share the same airport as Leeds

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Loan recruit goes to new club and says things to get in the good books of the fans shocker. Better call the sports desk. This is breaking news.

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In fairness he doesn''t state it as fact, he says ''probably''.

And what he was trying to suggest more of is that they should not be in that league which is also quite right. They have had the biggest fall from grace and so far failed to recover. Another one who I hope proves his worth, helps them to promotion and then comes back here ready to challenge for a starting position.

In terms of stature they probably arn''t far off us although in fairness to them they have spent less time in the premier division (old or new). They certainly are not a small club.

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Not far off! ..I think most fans of other clubs,at 2/3, would say Norwich are a bigger club and has been in living memory! ..Now if it was Huddersfield.,then they would have a claim.In living history,anyway..

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I saw that comment. Didn''t want to highlight it for fear of sounding bitter, and Adeyemi is, as has been said, more than probably trying to "suck up" to his new employers. But he is genuinely wrong.They haven''t ever really been a ''big'' club in their in history since about 1907-1922, when they were regulars in the top division, and won the FA Cup. However, since then they have mustered a mere 2 seasons in the top division, spending the vast majority of their history in the 3rd and 4th (a tier we''ve never as much as stepped foot in) tiers of English football.The highest position they''ve managed in the League is 5th, and that was in 1910.Our success in the 80''s and 90''s alone was far more glamorous than their collective history in it''s entirity.Personally, i don''t see Bradford City''s as much of a history to be proud of, but fairly average, if not then sub-standard, if truth be told.These sites might help you make your own mind up :http://www.bradfordcity-mad.co.uk/footydb/loadlghs.asphttp://www.norwichcity-mad.co.uk/footydb/loadlghs.asp

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[quote user="Dr. Ink"]

"....in term of history"

Read the article carefully. They probably are bigger in terms of history.

[/quote]Geeez... didn''t you lot read Dr Inks reply??? Read the article... it says in PROBABLY and in TERMS of HISTORY.  Anyway, what is supposed to say? Didn''t want to come but didn''t really have any choice? That wouldn''t go down terribly well with either club... I wish him well and hope to see him back a stronger player.

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[quote user="John"]Our success in the 80''s and 90''s alone was far more glamorous than their collective history in it''s entirity.[/quote]I think winning the FA Cup is quite a big deal.

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[quote user="John"]They haven''t ever really been a ''big'' club in their in history since about 1907-1922, when they were regulars in the top division, and won the FA Cup.[/quote]So you''re saying they haven''t ever been a big club in the past, apart from the 15 years when they were a big club...

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Who cares about history anyway. Will the fact Leeds won league titles in the 1970s help them this season? Will Forest''s European Cup triumphs under Clough help them get promoted this season? Does the fact we beat Bayern and finished 3rd once help us now? Doubt it to be honest.

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[quote user="Good Touch For A Big Man"]Who cares about history anyway.[/quote]Damn right.  What the hell could we possibly gain from understanding all those previous years of civilisation?Hey, does anyone want to join my pyramid scheme?

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[quote user="Mister Chops"][quote user="Good Touch For A Big Man"]Who cares about history anyway.[/quote]

Damn right.  What the hell could we possibly gain from understanding all those previous years of civilisation?

Hey, does anyone want to join my pyramid scheme?

[/quote]

Agreed Chops but an obsession with it is equally unhealthy. It can make you very blinkered and unrealistic. Not naming names. Oh ok Leeds.....

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[quote user="Mister Chops"][quote user="John"]They haven''t ever really been a ''big'' club in their in history since about 1907-1922, when they were regulars in the top division, and won the FA Cup.[/quote]So you''re saying they haven''t ever been a big club in the past, apart from the 15 years when they were a big club...

[/quote]I did make an exception for a time when they may have been percieved as a big club, yes. But 15 years, speaking in the context of a 106 period? Not a past lavished with success.Otherwise, their record as a "big club" can only be said to be dismal, if anyone is determined to value them as such.

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[quote user="Good Touch For A Big Man"]Who cares about history anyway. Will the fact Leeds won league titles in the 1970s help them this season? Will Forest''s European Cup triumphs under Clough help them get promoted this season? Does the fact we beat Bayern and finished 3rd once help us now? Doubt it to be honest.[/quote]

When you say 3rd, always say 3rd in the prem! As the old division 1 is not comparable..It was/is a whole new ball game(how the prem advertised itself just beore it started,with a song "Alive and kicking"

The big difference was the pass back to the keeper,allowing him to pick it up,was abolished,so teams who could grind out a 1 nill win by using the keeper,roll out to defender,pass pass,back to keeper!..The rule allowed attacking and creative teams to make their mark....Mate who is a spurs supporter,really thought last season he could finally stop me crowing about being 3rd in the prem,but they f#### it up! :)

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[quote user="Barclaybred"]

[quote user="Good Touch For A Big Man"]Who cares about history anyway. Will the fact Leeds won league titles in the 1970s help them this season? Will Forest''s European Cup triumphs under Clough help them get promoted this season? Does the fact we beat Bayern and finished 3rd once help us now? Doubt it to be honest.[/quote]

When you say 3rd, always say 3rd in the prem! As the old division 1 is not comparable..It was/is a whole new ball game(how the prem advertised itself just beore it started,with a song "Alive and kicking"

The big difference was the pass back to the keeper,allowing him to pick it up,was abolished,so teams who could grind out a 1 nill win by using the keeper,roll out to defender,pass pass,back to keeper!..The rule allowed attacking and creative teams to make their mark....Mate who is a spurs supporter,really thought last season he could finally stop me crowing about being 3rd in the prem,but they f#### it up! :)

[/quote]

It was magificent achievement don''t get me wrong and one to be celebrated as I am doubtful we will finish that high again in my lifetime. But I will just say again an obsession with history is dangerous. It was this sentiment about the good old days which lead to us appointing Gunn and then reappointing him with Butterworth, Crook and Deehan at his side. (Sorry if I have just turned this into another thread about the man).

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[quote user="Mister Chops"][quote user="John"]Our success in the 80''s and 90''s alone was far more glamorous than their collective history in it''s entirity.[/quote]I think winning the FA Cup is quite a big deal.[/quote]So was finishing, 3rd, 4th, 5th, winning the League Cup, and competing in Europe, on top of any other success of ours in that period.It may also be worth reiterating that it was in ''1910'', so in the sense of size i''d say that kind of success scarcely trickles down into their current stature. Although i''ll admit i did speak about their history in a "collective" sense.

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[quote user="John"][quote user="Mister Chops"][quote user="John"]Our success in the 80''s and 90''s alone was far more glamorous than their collective history in it''s entirity.[/quote]I think winning the FA Cup is quite a big deal.[/quote]So was finishing, 3rd, 4th, 5th, winning the League Cup, and competing in Europe, on top of any other success of ours in that period.It may also be worth reiterating that it was in ''1910'', so in the sense of size i''d say that kind of success scarcely trickles down into their current stature. Although i''ll admit i did speak about their history in a "collective" sense.[/quote]But when it comes down to it, we''ve won the League Cup once, Bradford have won the FA Cup once.  Therefore their history is slightly more glorious than ours.

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[quote user="Mister Chops"][quote user="John"][quote user="Mister Chops"][quote user="John"]Our success in the 80''s and 90''s alone was far more glamorous than their collective history in it''s entirity.[/quote]I think winning the FA Cup is quite a big deal.[/quote]So was finishing, 3rd, 4th, 5th, winning the League Cup, and competing in Europe, on top of any other success of ours in that period.It may also be worth reiterating that it was in ''1910'', so in the sense of size i''d say that kind of success scarcely trickles down into their current stature. Although i''ll admit i did speak about their history in a "collective" sense.[/quote]But when it comes down to it, we''ve won the League Cup once, Bradford have won the FA Cup once.  Therefore their history is slightly more glorious than ours.[/quote]When it comes down to it, we''ve reached the League Cup final 4 times, and won it 2 times.They''ve won the FA Cup once (in 1910!). And in that department it hasn''t exactly been a horror show for us, having reached the Semi-Finals 4 times.And i''d say your sadly mistaken if you think ''history'' soley comes from domestic cups from tournaments.

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They''ve won more prestigious cups than us for sure but then again so have Bury, Fulham, Blackburn, Bolton, Huddersfield etc but I wouldn''t consider any of them to be bigger clubs than us if you stripped down the ones that have been bankrolled!

 

Football in this Country in its beginning was predominantly a Northern based sport hence why clubs like Bury and Bradford won things before the 1st world war yet have done little since!

 

The National urban myth is that Norwich are about the same sized club as a Barnsley, Bristol City and smaller than clubs like Crystal Palace,  Birmingham etc. Its getting better than it used to be in the 80''s and 90''s but habits die hard!

 

Hopefully we''ll get back in the Premiership, be able to hang in there a while increase our ground capacity then we''ll move up a notch and be able to compete with the likes of West Ham and Sunderland. Then maybe somemore people around the globe may realise we''re not little old Norwich!

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[quote user="grantroederdisaster"]

They''ve won more prestigious cups than us for sure but then again so have Bury, Fulham, Blackburn, Bolton, Huddersfield etc but I wouldn''t consider any of them to be bigger clubs than us if you stripped down the ones that have been bankrolled!

 

Football in this Country in its beginning was predominantly a Northern based sport hence why clubs like Bury and Bradford won things before the 1st world war yet have done little since!

 

The National urban myth is that Norwich are about the same sized club as a Barnsley, Bristol City and smaller than clubs like Crystal Palace,  Birmingham etc. Its getting better than it used to be in the 80''s and 90''s but habits die hard!

 

Hopefully we''ll get back in the Premiership, be able to hang in there a while increase our ground capacity then we''ll move up a notch and be able to compete with the likes of West Ham and Sunderland. Then maybe somemore people around the globe may realise we''re not little old Norwich!

[/quote]You say "cups" like Bradford have won more than one. And the last time Bury managed one of their two major domestic trophies was in 1902.More to the point, Fulham, Bristol City, Crystal Palace have never won a major cup, and Barnsley managed one in 1911.I''d say we''re seen in a very similar vain to the likes of Coventry and Leicester personally. Never won the League, but have challenged for it a few times, and have been an established outfit in the top 2 leagues for a long time. We''ve have had our shining moments in the spotlight of British football with 2 or 3 (or 1 in the case of Coventry) domestic tophies, and have a similar mass in number of fans backing us.

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[quote user="John"][quote user="grantroederdisaster"]

They''ve won more prestigious cups than us for sure but then again so have Bury, Fulham, Blackburn, Bolton, Huddersfield etc but I wouldn''t consider any of them to be bigger clubs than us if you stripped down the ones that have been bankrolled!

 

Football in this Country in its beginning was predominantly a Northern based sport hence why clubs like Bury and Bradford won things before the 1st world war yet have done little since!

 

The National urban myth is that Norwich are about the same sized club as a Barnsley, Bristol City and smaller than clubs like Crystal Palace,  Birmingham etc. Its getting better than it used to be in the 80''s and 90''s but habits die hard!

 

Hopefully we''ll get back in the Premiership, be able to hang in there a while increase our ground capacity then we''ll move up a notch and be able to compete with the likes of West Ham and Sunderland. Then maybe somemore people around the globe may realise we''re not little old Norwich!

[/quote]You say "cups" like Bradford have won more than one. And the last time Bury managed one of their two major domestic trophies was in 1902.More to the point, Fulham, Bristol City, Crystal Palace have never won a major cup, and Barnsley managed one in 1911.I''d say we''re seen in a very similar vain to the likes of Coventry and Leicester personally. Never won the League, but have challenged for it a few times, and have been an established outfit in the top 2 leagues for a long time. We''ve have had our shining moments in the spotlight of British football with 2 or 3 (or 1 in the case of Coventry) domestic tophies, and have a similar mass in number of fans backing us.[/quote]Excellent post John... [Y]

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[quote user="John"][quote user="Mister Chops"][quote user="John"][quote user="Mister Chops"][quote user="John"]Our success in the 80''s and 90''s alone was far more glamorous than their collective history in it''s entirity.[/quote]I think winning the FA Cup is quite a big deal.[/quote]So was finishing, 3rd, 4th, 5th, winning the League Cup, and competing in Europe, on top of any other success of ours in that period.It may also be worth reiterating that it was in ''1910'', so in the sense of size i''d say that kind of success scarcely trickles down into their current stature. Although i''ll admit i did speak about their history in a "collective" sense.[/quote]But when it comes down to it, we''ve won the League Cup once, Bradford have won the FA Cup once.  Therefore their history is slightly more glorious than ours.[/quote]When it comes down to it, we''ve reached the League Cup final 4 times, and won it 2 times.They''ve won the FA Cup once (in 1910!). And in that department it hasn''t exactly been a horror show for us, having reached the Semi-Finals 4 times.And i''d say your sadly mistaken if you think ''history'' soley comes from domestic cups from tournaments.[/quote]Well, I quite agree.Tom Adeyemi said that "Bradford are probably a bigger club than Norwich in terms of history."History isn''t selective in terms of recent or further back.  Both teams have spent years in the top flight, been relegated, been promoted again.  In terms of recent history (e.g. post WW2), Norwich have clearly been more successful.  But that''s not what Adeyemi said.Only one team has won a genuine top class trophy, i.e. the FA Cup.  The League Cup is the FA Cup''s ugly sister, after all.  And much as we''ve done well in the early nineties, the old trophy cabinet''s still pretty bare.  Appreciate your points about Norwich cup runs and the like, but you don''t list out Bradford''s similar achievements in the late nineties.So I maintain that Tom Adeyemi wasn''t far wrong in what he said.

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Bradford are a good club, with plenty of history, who have had hard times recently after their foray into the premiership. Shackled with debt since their relegation from the top flight, paying silly wages they have recently been taken over by a local chairman who has the club at heart. IIRC he cleared their debts when he employed Stuart McCall as manager and instigated a scheme where if 10,000 people bought a season ticket they would pay no more than £100. Bums on seats in League 2, sadly McCall wasn''t up to the job, but they now have Peter Taylor in charge who is sure to do a great job at that level. Season tickets are still relatively cheap at £250. Given a run in the 1st team Adeyemi should come back to us a much better, like Chris Martin did.

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[quote user="Mister Chops"][quote user="John"][quote user="Mister Chops"][quote user="John"][quote user="Mister Chops"][quote user="John"]Our success in the 80''s and 90''s alone was far more glamorous than their collective history in it''s entirity.[/quote]I think winning the FA Cup is quite a big deal.[/quote]So was finishing, 3rd, 4th, 5th, winning the League Cup, and competing in Europe, on top of any other success of ours in that period.It may also be worth reiterating that it was in ''1910'', so in the sense of size i''d say that kind of success scarcely trickles down into their current stature. Although i''ll admit i did speak about their history in a "collective" sense.[/quote]But when it comes down to it, we''ve won the League Cup once, Bradford have won the FA Cup once.  Therefore their history is slightly more glorious than ours.[/quote]When it comes down to it, we''ve reached the League Cup final 4 times, and won it 2 times.They''ve won the FA Cup once (in 1910!). And in that department it hasn''t exactly been a horror show for us, having reached the Semi-Finals 4 times.And i''d say your sadly mistaken if you think ''history'' soley comes from domestic cups from tournaments.[/quote]Well, I quite agree.Tom Adeyemi said that "Bradford are probably a bigger club than Norwich in terms of history."History isn''t selective in terms of recent or further back.  Both teams have spent years in the top flight, been relegated, been promoted again.  In terms of recent history (e.g. post WW2), Norwich have clearly been more successful.  But that''s not what Adeyemi said.Only one team has won a genuine top class trophy, i.e. the FA Cup.  The League Cup is the FA Cup''s ugly sister, after all.  And much as we''ve done well in the early nineties, the old trophy cabinet''s still pretty bare (as opposed to that 1 trophy Bradford won in 1910? For what it''s worth, i know i''d certainly happier with our trophy cabinet).  Appreciate your points about Norwich cup runs and the like, but you don''t list out Bradford''s similar achievements in the late nineties.So I maintain that Tom Adeyemi wasn''t far wrong in what he said.[/quote]One thing you certainly seem to be selective about (i''m stating to womder whether it''s for the sake of argument, something Bradford can ''cling on'' to if you will) is the matter of domestic knockout tournaments, and their prestige. You''ll probably find most people would rate league success, and European tournament inclusion and success way ahead of that of the League Cup or the FA Cup.History may not be selective in terms recent or further back, but contemporary success can well dictate the contemporary size of a club. And for the past 70/80 years or so we''ve pretty much been on top, and made more of a success of ourselves than they did in the earlier period. And what is even more than that is we have done it consistantly, and have never so much as fallen as far down as the 4th tier, and rarely the 3rd tier, as opposed to the majority of time from which Bradford have spent plying their trade.To be honest, i''m not even sure that the FA Cup was that prestigious in 1910, but for Bradford it is a tournament they can lay claim to having one it in it''s earliest stages. Infact, i''d gander the League Cup at latter half of the 20th century was bigger than the FA Cup at the start of the 20th century, but for now that''s matter of opinion, for i can''t really be bothered to scour for facts and evidence to support that.Anyway, you seem to be basing the entire criteria of size on history, when that is only one mere factor.Why bother with this Chopsy? Do you honestly feel Bradford are bigger than us? Cos'' i can tell you right now, i''m sorry, but i''m yet to find an element of your argument for them for which i find remotely substantial.Personally, accounting for all the elements and make-up of composition within each club, i don''t think their as much as comparable with our size, whatever you think about our histories.

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