Team for Watford ?

[KCASN 0]

Steer

Martin Whitbread Ward Hambergham

Surman

Smith Lappin

Hoolahan

Mcdonald Johnson

Bench - Rudd, Doherty, Holt, Martin, Croft, Ethuhu, Safri

[Boyo 0]

[quote user="Graham Humphrey"][quote user="Boyo"]When Nelson first got in the team people did not like him as a player and thought he was poor.  He did not change.  He was still poor right the way through his run of games minus a few good ones e.g. ColU away.  However he scored the goal that won us promotion and understanably he was given hero status but he went from a poor player to a good player overnight and I don''t understand that.

Also when Askou started playing he was doing well and there was a lot of praise for him and rightly so.  Then a couple of months later after and injury and after two goals from another defender he is the weakest centre back at the club and I don''t understand that either.

So if this hasn''t happened, why did Nelson go from a poor player in Febuary to a good player in July?

[/quote]
You don''t get it, you really don''t.  Maybe if you actually bothered to read other peoples'' posts properly, and recognise that not everybody has the same view on players as you, we may start getting somewhere.  None of what you said happened in reality; only in your own head, more or less.
[/quote]

You have said this to me before!

I have read other posts properly.  Properly enough to see that opinions can change quite rapidly on here.  And I realise that not everybody has the same view as me because otherwise I wouldn''t have said any of that because I would believe that everyone else like me thinks that Nelson isn''t very good and would therefore not be thinking he is better than Askou which is what I am arguing about.

Me and you had an argument about Doherty leaving once before aswell.  And the Doherty situation is a similar thing to this.  After the 7-1 defeat and when Lambert came in he said Doherty didn''t have a future at the club.  Everyone praised him for this and said finally we have someone who can realise that Doherty isn''t actually very good.  Then come the end of the season after Doherty played well he became a Championship quality player again and it was stupid to let him go.

See where I''m coming from?  Well I know you don''t but I guess you never will.

[Felixfan 53]

Askou and Drury should be nailed on certs for the first game.

[GJP 79]

[quote user="Boyo"]

We haven''t seen who Lambert rates higher out of Askou and Nelson because when Nelson was playing all the time Askou was injured.  When Askou was able to be picked again there was about 4 to 6 games left if I remember rightly so as we were pushing for the title it would have been stupid to bring in a player straight off the back of a long term injury who would not be match fit and not quite up to ''scratch''.

If Askou and Spillane didn''t get injured (Spillane because he could have filled in the CB position) Nelson wouldn''t have been anywhere near the first team.  When Askou was in the team for a short space of time he didn''t really have a bad game.  Nelson in my opinion had quite a few.

Isn''t it funny how opinions change!  When Askou was in the team he was great but, because he has had an injury lay off he is all of a sudden not a very good player.  When Nelson first got in the team (not the opening day, the start of his games from about January onwards) he wasn''t a very good player at all but then he has a couple of half decent games, score two goals and he just about as good as Lucio and is a very good defender.

[/quote]

Yeah, but as Graham has pointed out...that wasn''t actually what I said. So I will try to make it even clearer - I think, if given a straight choice between Nelson and Askou then, as it stands, Lambert would be more likely to pick Nelson.

Now, I actually like Askou but once Nelson got a run in the defence it looked to me (and I would bet Lambert thought the same) that it shaped up better than when Askou was in there. Nelson reads the game better, he gets in better positions to defend and he wins a lot more at the first time of asking. And although Askou heads the ball well Nelson is actually better at winning the the header in the first place.

Nelson has been branded by some as a lower league "hoof it" kind of defender and, while he might not be overly stylish with the ball, I don''t think some people can look beyond that verdict on him to see what a good defender he is.

Also, I''m not sure, but are you suggesting that Spillane would have made a better centreback than Nelson? If that is the case then you really need to have another look at things but let''s hope that''s not what you were suggesting.

[Huddy 0]

Ruddy

Martin Whitbread Ward Drury

Crofts Smith Surman

Hoolahan

Martin Holt

This is harsh on Nelson who came on leaps and bounds at the end of last season; however if we are to compete in the championship i believe we are going to need better players. Nelson will be a decent squad player, but lacks the all round game, against the stronger, quicker, more gifted forwards. Ward is a cert; and Lambo''s signing of Whitbread when he was basically still injured last year, gives me the impression that his signing was aimed at the season; and i would therefore be shocked if he wasnt well in the mix.

I also can''t believe the amount of people, who are happy to axe drury ( i know you could argue Nelson is a similar decision). However, Drury was once agin Mr Reliable last season; is over his injury problems (touch wood). He was a top championship player before those injuries; and there is no reason why he can''t be again. He deserves the first shout; new signings shouldnt be automatic picks.

[Lambo 0]

I''d play Ruddy in goal. Back line of Russell Martin, Ward, Whitbred & Drury. Midfield of Crofts, Korey, Surman & Wes. Chrissy & Holt up top.

I think it''s harsh on Nelson to bring in both Ward and Whitbred ahead of him. He''s a no nonsense defender & I like that about him, he might not be everyone''s cup of tea as he''s not a very technical player but having him in the squad will be vital at times, IE when we''re trying to hold on to a lead but under the cosh such as the game we won promotion. However starting games I''d prefere to see Ward and Zak building from the back. The other difficult choice for me is do you leave Korey in the side over Fox?? IMO yes, from what i''ve seen and read of Fox he''s not going to be making too many tackles & neither are Wes or Surman, leaving it all too Crofts. Having Korey can help releive that pressure from Crofts.

[3canaries 0]

                              Forster

Martin               Whitbred         Ward         Drury

                              Crofts

Surman                                       Smith

                              Hoolahan

               Holt                Martin

 

Ruddy, Nelson, Lappin, Johnson, Smith, MacNamee, A N Other

 

Dont be surprised if Forster does make a return...

[Fiery Zac 1,066]

Boyo wrote:

I''m not saying I think he wasn''t very good because of the opening day because I wasn''t impressed towards the end of the season either whilst everyone else thought he was Lucio!

I wouldn''t say he is better defensively really.  They are both good in the air, they are both strong tacklers.  Nelson''s positional play is OK but not anything to excited about however, he really does lack pace.  Askou is quicker than Nelson, although not a ''quick'' player himself.  Also he makes a lot more important tackles and just generally makes a lot more tackles, which then does show that his positional play would be just as good as Nelson because he has to be in position to make those tackles because if he wasn''t in position the opposition would just run past him.  Also they are both not great at distribution but at least Askou can kick it straight.

Overall they are fairly similar but Askou is ahead of him because in the stuff they are both good at he is stronger.  Nelson, for me, is a good League 2 defender who can hold his own in League 1.  Askou, for me is a very good League 1 defender who I believe can hold his own in the Championship.  Askou could ''struggle'' agaisn''t very good, pacey opposition whereas I believe Nelson would get torn apart.

Nelson was just holding his own? You could say that if it was only the

odd game but he played 27 games once Askou got injured and other than

the missed header against Orient i cant remember another costly

mistake. Yes hes not quick but im sure hes well aware of that and as has

been pointed out he has adapted his play to accomodate that. I remember

being amazed when he came into the team when Askou got injured at how

well he read the game, how many tackles he won, how good he was in the

air and just his all round performance, 1 on 1 id rather have had

Nelson as last man than Doc (but thats another argument). I

dont have much critism of Askou except like Nelson he is very slow and

not great at bringing the ball out of defence. Dont agree Askou makes better tackles and more tackles, Nelson just seemed to be in the right place at the right time and (sometimes stupidly) jumped into tackles that looked clumsy but usually came away with the ball. For me they''re both back

up for this season however could get an unexpected run in the team and

like Doc, Nelson, Smith last season and then keep their place on merit.Nelson

is a very good League 1 defender as he proved, without even mentioning

the important goals he scored, however i also think he''ll get shown up

in the championship and would like to see Ward and Whitbread as the

starting CBs.-----------------Ruddy---------------------Martin-----Ward------Whitbread----Drury----------------Crofts-------------------------Smith-----------------------Surman---------------------Hoolahan---------------------------Holt--------------Martin----------however wouldnt be surprised as suggested earlier he went with a 4-4-2 with Hoolahan just off Holt. How quickly will the diamond get sussed out in the championship? Do we have a plan B? If so who will the wide men be in a 4-4-2? Just random questions id like to know the answer to! In Lambert i trust and would love to see the diamond played and work in the championship but what will he do if it doesnt as happened at times in League 1?

[BroadstairsR 0]

I''m more than a bit surprised with your inclusion of Forster in your team 3canaries and the statement at the end of your post.

Uptil the signing of Ruddy, I would have gone along with this. However Ruddy cost us a bit (undisclosed), has generated rave reviews from Scotland and we have we have good youngsters for back-up.

Although we do seem to have  surprising funds all of a sudden, such a wealth of keepers on the payroll would seem a bit extravagent particularly as there are no indications that Rudd or Steer will be loaned out. I have a lot of confidence in Rudd as first back-up in any event and if we are unlucky with injuries in that department, there is always the emergency loan system to fall back on.

It is time to forget about Fraser at Carrow Road unfortunately.

[Boyo 0]

[quote user="GJP"]

Yeah, but as Graham has pointed out...that wasn''t actually what I said. So I will try to make it even clearer - I think, if given a straight choice between Nelson and Askou then, as it stands, Lambert would be more likely to pick Nelson.

Now, I actually like Askou but once Nelson got a run in the defence it looked to me (and I would bet Lambert thought the same) that it shaped up better than when Askou was in there. Nelson reads the game better, he gets in better positions to defend and he wins a lot more at the first time of asking. And although Askou heads the ball well Nelson is actually better at winning the the header in the first place.

Nelson has been branded by some as a lower league "hoof it" kind of defender and, while he might not be overly stylish with the ball, I don''t think some people can look beyond that verdict on him to see what a good defender he is.

Also, I''m not sure, but are you suggesting that Spillane would have made a better centreback than Nelson? If that is the case then you really need to have another look at things but let''s hope that''s not what you were suggesting.

[/quote]

No I''m not suggesting that!  It''s just that Spillane played a few games at CB with Askou when Lambert first came here and Lambert was at the time playing him ahead of Doherty and Nelson so thats why I mentioned him.

But anyway, it looks like we are never going to agree and I''m not going to type my argument out again but I am shocked that most people think Nelson is better than Askou!  I would put Askou way ahead of him and as I said before I think Askou could be good in the Championship whearas I think Nelson would get torn apart.  However I would have them both as squad members with Askou 3rd choice and Nelson 4th choice.

[Robert N. LiM 4,239]

What does Adam Drury have to do to get the respect of posters on this board?Fortunately Lambert isn''t such a fly-by-night. Adam will start against Watford.Askou vs Nelson. Both big lumps. I thought Askou was marginally less embarrassing than Nelson (and I missed the 1-7, so that has no bearing on my judgment), but there is no doubt that Nelson did settle in and cut out some of the more appalling errors. But I would suggest that neither of them have the pace to cope in the Championship. If either of them is in the team for a long period next season I think we''ll struggle. And with Whitbread''s fitness record....