The English football league...... (or just Football in general)

[Gingerpele 0]

Now, most of this post won''t be relevant to Norwich City, but i may link them in a few times......What kind of condition has the whole English league gotten into?Recently there was talk of the lower leagues spiltting off, because of financing problems (the parachute payments doubling.......) How could that even be thought of? Has any other league ever had these kinds of problems....?Something interesting i read on a BBC artcile a while back, was about the Brazilian league, and how the stopped the big teams from being relegated, changed rules or just decided they wern''t relegated....but after one of the big teams did get relegated, the whole Brazilian league took off (aparently....), is that what we need here, Man.U or Liverpool to get relegated....Well at least the ''big 4'' seems to have been infiltrated, with Spurs getting in there, Man. City and Aston Villa all looking better than Liverpool last season, Arsenal don''t seem to want to buy anyone (despite the 1000s linked with them every transfer window) and 95% of their youngsters seem to move on, because they arn''t good enough for Arsenal....and Man.U don''t seem to have a plan B at the moment....Is the Premireship falling apart?In a way it quite clearly is, the first time ever a Premireship team went into administration, so did Palace, Southampton the season before, didn''t someone in League 2 as well? and teams like Cardiff that are so close to that, even rumours that Norwich where/are close to that point, debt is everywhere, but why? take Norwich for example, average attendance of 25,000, say average ticket price is only £5, thats £125,000 a match, thats nearly £3 million a year from match tickets (at what i belive would be a low average, it must be at least £10....), add to that merchendise etc there is a lot of money being made....Sky as well, the ammount of money they pay, 200k were getting for that first Sky match? how much do Man.U and Chelsea get? there is a lot of money being put into these football teams....Where does it all go?The Players.... players like John Terry, Rooney, Ronaldo, Messi, who are on 100k a week......that is far far too much, 100k a week, is giving them over £5 million a year, plus bonuses, sponsership etc, they are making more money in a 10/15 year football career, that a lot of working class familys would make in their life.....i think these players should be on 20k a week max, that is still a lot of money, and then Football clubs could start to rebuild there financial situation, Man. U owe banks over £700 million, how is that possible.....Going away from money, and looking at the quality of footballers....This World Cup is really showing us something......the ball is getting a lot of stick, the Atmosphere, some players may even be blaming the Vuvezelas........but what is being made obvious is the diffrence in class and attitude...Watching Argentina now (kind of....), and in the other 3 games, it is obvious how gifted players like Messi are....But what they also have going for them, is players like Tevez, who is so determind, if he loses the ball, he chases it down, he doesn''t give up...Thats how teams like New Zealand have come so close to getting though, and in New Zealands case, being part of knocking out a class team...England however, said to be a team full of World Class players, many debated have arisen even before the poor 4 games we have played, as too who those players really are,, but i would have thought, Terry, Rio, A.Cole, Lampard, Gerrard and Rooney could have been called World Class....A.Cole still could be i guess, he is one of the best, if not the best Left Back at the moment, so deserves that tag, but the others don''t, they showed so little determination, so little hart, Ghanian players did, SA players did, New Zealand players did, Argentina players do......so why havn''t the English players done it?The Premire league is the best in the world, but obviously the English players arn''t....Why does Gerrard smash shots in for Liverpool easily, but not for England (i could go on...), do the forreign players make the league, do the English players have so little ability, they just can''t do it on their own....the best way to see, would be having more English players abroad.....as players come here, and learn the trade (although, i think a lot of that is cheating, the only American player who botherd to cheat at all last night, was Dempsy, who funnily enough, is an attacking player, who plays in England....i know they have a few others who play here, but Dempsey is the only one who stood out for me, as trying to fake injury etc....)

Basically what needs to happen, is football needs to be sorted out...Money is in a terrible state, not just in Football at the moment, but why don''t the Football industry lead the way, in trying to change that? Cheating, there must be more cheats playing football than any other sport, its just not fair play, trying to get other players booked, trying to gain an unfair advantage, just isn''t right, and a lot of players do play fairly, but there are still a lot who don''t.....a more fair system, accross all the leagues, England, has had such a dominaant system for the last 20 years, the top flight teams are top flight teams, teams like Norwich come and go, may have a few shocks, but after watching the Damned United (Brain Clough film), it was amazing, how he took Derby from bottom of division 2/3 to winning the top division, that would never happen, in any majour league these days.....Money is ruling footballe, the footballers have too much power, but then certain clubs also have to much power, Man City are a prime example, a rich man comes and takes over, they decide who they want, and get them, Jolean Lescott, Gareth Barry (probably James Milner this summer), their clubs really wanted to keep them, but they couldn''t the players wanted to leave, to get the money.....

(Sorry if i have gone on too much, don''t expect many people to read that all the way though, i wrote too much, and its not layed out very well, sorry [:(])

[SitTee 0]

Very good post!

[Wings of a Sparrow 1,402]

A very good post and the way many of us see how the (English) game is in free fall.

Picking up on one of your points, at 3-1 down and the game seemingly over the Mexicans chased and harried right until the end.

[Wings of a Sparrow 1,402]

I also meant to add a bit about the obvious team spirit witin the Argentina camp which we have none of. The big hugs from Maradona for the substited players and the the way they  did the old slapping hands thing with the team members on the bench and the reaction at the end - team spirit in abundance which we never saw with our lot. 

[Lambert is King 0]

The England team included players that could not even get into their club teams. Unfortunately the big clubs are no longer bothered about developing English youngsters as they can get players from abroad that are already well developed and playing club football at 16. The only exception to this is probably Man Utd. We have sold our souls to Sky, yes the best league in the world but no English players. There was a post on here before the World Cup asking Norwich or England - answer overwhelming Norwich - likewise supporters of the big clubs would feel the same about their club compared to England, the same must filter through to the players, when one injury playing for England ( Ashton good example ) costs them millions.  

[The Walking Man 13]

[quote user="Gingerpele"]Now, most of this post won''t be relevant to Norwich City, but i may link them in a few times......

What kind of condition has the whole English league gotten into?
Recently there was talk of the lower leagues spiltting off, because of financing problems (the parachute payments doubling.......) How could that even be thought of? Has any other league ever had these kinds of problems....?

Something interesting i read on a BBC artcile a while back, was about the Brazilian league, and how the stopped the big teams from being relegated, changed rules or just decided they wern''t relegated....but after one of the big teams did get relegated, the whole Brazilian league took off (aparently....), is that what we need here, Man.U or Liverpool to get relegated....Well at least the ''big 4'' seems to have been infiltrated, with Spurs getting in there, Man. City and Aston Villa all looking better than Liverpool last season, Arsenal don''t seem to want to buy anyone (despite the 1000s linked with them every transfer window) and 95% of their youngsters seem to move on, because they arn''t good enough for Arsenal....and Man.U don''t seem to have a plan B at the moment....Is the Premireship falling apart?

In a way it quite clearly is, the first time ever a Premireship team went into administration, so did Palace, Southampton the season before, didn''t someone in League 2 as well? and teams like Cardiff that are so close to that, even rumours that Norwich where/are close to that point, debt is everywhere, but why? take Norwich for example, average attendance of 25,000, say average ticket price is only £5, thats £125,000 a match, thats nearly £3 million a year from match tickets (at what i belive would be a low average, it must be at least £10....), add to that merchendise etc there is a lot of money being made....Sky as well, the ammount of money they pay, 200k were getting for that first Sky match? how much do Man.U and Chelsea get? there is a lot of money being put into these football teams....Where does it all go?

The Players.... players like John Terry, Rooney, Ronaldo, Messi, who are on 100k a week......that is far far too much, 100k a week, is giving them over £5 million a year, plus bonuses, sponsership etc, they are making more money in a 10/15 year football career, that a lot of working class familys would make in their life.....i think these players should be on 20k a week max, that is still a lot of money, and then Football clubs could start to rebuild there financial situation, Man. U owe banks over £700 million, how is that possible.....

Going away from money, and looking at the quality of footballers....This World Cup is really showing us something......the ball is getting a lot of stick, the Atmosphere, some players may even be blaming the Vuvezelas........but what is being made obvious is the diffrence in class and attitude...Watching Argentina now (kind of....), and in the other 3 games, it is obvious how gifted players like Messi are....But what they also have going for them, is players like Tevez, who is so determind, if he loses the ball, he chases it down, he doesn''t give up...Thats how teams like New Zealand have come so close to getting though, and in New Zealands case, being part of knocking out a class team...England however, said to be a team full of World Class players, many debated have arisen even before the poor 4 games we have played, as too who those players really are,, but i would have thought, Terry, Rio, A.Cole, Lampard, Gerrard and Rooney could have been called World Class....A.Cole still could be i guess, he is one of the best, if not the best Left Back at the moment, so deserves that tag, but the others don''t, they showed so little determination, so little hart, Ghanian players did, SA players did, New Zealand players did, Argentina players do......so why havn''t the English players done it?

The Premire league is the best in the world, but obviously the English players arn''t....Why does Gerrard smash shots in for Liverpool easily, but not for England (i could go on...), do the forreign players make the league, do the English players have so little ability, they just can''t do it on their own....the best way to see, would be having more English players abroad.....as players come here, and learn the trade (although, i think a lot of that is cheating, the only American player who botherd to cheat at all last night, was Dempsy, who funnily enough, is an attacking player, who plays in England....i know they have a few others who play here, but Dempsey is the only one who stood out for me, as trying to fake injury etc....)


Basically what needs to happen, is football needs to be sorted out...Money is in a terrible state, not just in Football at the moment, but why don''t the Football industry lead the way, in trying to change that? Cheating, there must be more cheats playing football than any other sport, its just not fair play, trying to get other players booked, trying to gain an unfair advantage, just isn''t right, and a lot of players do play fairly, but there are still a lot who don''t.....a more fair system, accross all the leagues, England, has had such a dominaant system for the last 20 years, the top flight teams are top flight teams, teams like Norwich come and go, may have a few shocks, but after watching the Damned United (Brain Clough film), it was amazing, how he took Derby from bottom of division 2/3 to winning the top division, that would never happen, in any majour league these days.....Money is ruling footballe, the footballers have too much power, but then certain clubs also have to much power, Man City are a prime example, a rich man comes and takes over, they decide who they want, and get them, Jolean Lescott, Gareth Barry (probably James Milner this summer), their clubs really wanted to keep them, but they couldn''t the players wanted to leave, to get the money.....


(Sorry if i have gone on too much, don''t expect many people to read that all the way though, i wrote too much, and its not layed out very well, sorry [:(])
[/quote]

1. I believe the idea was mooted for leagues 1 and 2 to go back to regional areas like it once was, and there are indeed other countries where this happens, Germany, Italy and Brazil to name but three.

2. Interesting article on sky news here: http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Business/Premier-League-Profits-Fall-Despite-Increased-Revenue-As-Wage-Costs-Rise/Article/201006215645772?f=rss Basically it saying that most teams spend heavily on wages and gamble heavily on success. The likes of Portsmouth, Southampton, Palace, Ipswich, Leeds all tasted relative success and all tried to continue funding that success even when they failed hence why all of the clubs mentioned entered administration.

3. Players earn the money they earn because people are willing to pay that money, you wouldn''t turn 200k a week down would you? All it takes is a club with more money say Man Utd of old and now Chelsea and Man City to offer big wages and lesser clubs feel they have to compete, this also creates a ripple effect whereby players further down the pyramid think that they should earn more. If someone is willing to pay the wages then it is the laws of supply and demand and in reality there''s nothing we can do about it.

4. Man Utd owe the money the owe because the Glaziers basically bought the club by borrwing loads of money and then transfering the debts incurred to the club. I don''t know exactly how but that essentially how. I''m assuming it''s all legal so there''s nothing to stop other people doing it with other clubs...

5. I guess there''s no real explanation for the lack of passion and performance from England at the world cup and I suspect that we''ll never know. However I will say that this tournament was Capello''s first international tournament and I think he underestimated the effect decisions such as refusing to name his team in advance have on the lonf term morale of the team.

6. Football will never lead the way because free market capitalism ensures that if somebody is willing to pay alot of money for a service then they can, and then you''ve got the FA and Premier league petrified that if they try and impose some sort of wage cap the big clubs (and perceived money earners in terms of commercial saleability) will bugger off and form a European superleague taking the money with them, and at the end of the day cash is king.

7. Please tell me you were joking when you said that football is the sport were cheating is most rife? Ever since the ancient Olympics people have been  cheating to gain an advantage, I don''t like it as much as the next person but when compared to sports such as Rugby, football isn''t that bad...

Finally what about Liverpool dominating the 70''s and 80''s pre Sky?

 

[:)]

[Gingerpele 0]

[quote user="The Walking Man "]

7. Please tell me you were joking when you said that football is the sport were cheating is most rife? Ever since the ancient Olympics people have been  cheating to gain an advantage, I don''t like it as much as the next person but when compared to sports such as Rugby, football isn''t that bad...

Finally what about Liverpool dominating the 70''s and 80''s pre Sky?

[/quote]I have never heard, or seen of any cheating when i have watched Rugby (when will they be cheating? there isn''t much chance for it, when their just rolling around on top of each other [:P] ) but to even say olympics has more cheating, does it? There are lots of drug tests etc, but how do you cheat in a long jump, or sprint? without drugs, which not that many are taking (or they all our, and only a couple get found out....), While Football games, you can''t go through a football game, without someone faking an injury, or diving, or harrasing the ref etc....it may happen more in other sports, but not from what i have seen....Yeah well Liverpool suck [:P] I don''t know why Liverpool where so good, but did they win over 10 of the Division 1 titles in that time? Because thats what Man. U have done.....

Just a reminder, this is all my opinion, and i welcom your critizism/opinion as well, at least i know you read it all, which i was hoping someone did [:D]

[Wings of a Sparrow 1,402]

Uh oh! Be prepared for the blood capsules card to be played!

[Yellow Wal 314]

Some very good points have been made in these posts but, really, few solutions.

The premiership has become boring in recent season with only 4 or so teams fighting for the honours and the rest fighting for survival. That does football no good at all and needs change.

The loan system rewards the clubs with 60 or so players on their books as they can get other clubs to develop tham by loaning them out whilst never letting the club buy them. That major change has harmed football greatly. Gone are the days when clubs like ours could buy top clubs reserve players who had little chance of becoming first team regulars. Now the players are ''kept but loaned'' in case they develop to that standard. The loan system was brought in to help the lower clubs but now it is used to make the rich clubs richer.

We have are seeing a World Cup with squads of 23 players so why do some premiership clubs need 50 or 60 or more players on their books?

How many times are players ''bought'' and then loaned out for the season. All this does is prevent other clubs, who may have wanted to play them, buying them.

Introduce squad limitation on players over 21 and the buying for investment would have to stop.

[Gingerpele 0]

Very sensible suggestions their Yellow Wall [:D] and something like that (well, i think you have got the right idea anyway) really does need to be done.....

[NCFC_Thain 0]

[quote user="Yellow Wall"]Some very good points have been made in these posts but, really, few solutions.

The premiership has become boring in recent season with only 4 or so teams fighting for the honours and the rest fighting for survival. That does football no good at all and needs change.

The loan system rewards the clubs with 60 or so players on their books as they can get other clubs to develop tham by loaning them out whilst never letting the club buy them. That major change has harmed football greatly. Gone are the days when clubs like ours could buy top clubs reserve players who had little chance of becoming first team regulars. Now the players are ''kept but loaned'' in case they develop to that standard. The loan system was brought in to help the lower clubs but now it is used to make the rich clubs richer.

We have are seeing a World Cup with squads of 23 players so why do some premiership clubs need 50 or 60 or more players on their books?

How many times are players ''bought'' and then loaned out for the season. All this does is prevent other clubs, who may have wanted to play them, buying them.

Introduce squad limitation on players over 21 and the buying for investment would have to stop.[/quote]

A squad limit is coming in

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/eng_prem/8255784.stm

[ROBFLECK 132]

One of the best posts I''ve read on here. I''m getting fed up with international football, champions league, ... I just love City and I go and whatch them... I''m really starting to get an interest in other sports that do not have this problem... (cricket, Golf,...)

[The Walking Man 13]

[quote user="Gingerpele"][quote user="The Walking Man "]

7. Please tell me you were joking when you said that football is the sport were cheating is most rife? Ever since the ancient Olympics people have been  cheating to gain an advantage, I don''t like it as much as the next person but when compared to sports such as Rugby, football isn''t that bad...

Finally what about Liverpool dominating the 70''s and 80''s pre Sky?

[/quote]

I have never heard, or seen of any cheating when i have watched Rugby (when will they be cheating? there isn''t much chance for it, when their just rolling around on top of each other [:P] ) but to even say olympics has more cheating, does it? There are lots of drug tests etc, but how do you cheat in a long jump, or sprint? without drugs, which not that many are taking (or they all our, and only a couple get found out....), While Football games, you can''t go through a football game, without someone faking an injury, or diving, or harrasing the ref etc....it may happen more in other sports, but not from what i have seen....

Yeah well Liverpool suck [:P] I don''t know why Liverpool where so good, but did they win over 10 of the Division 1 titles in that time? Because thats what Man. U have done.....


Just a reminder, this is all my opinion, and i welcom your critizism/opinion as well, at least i know you read it all, which i was hoping someone did [:D]
[/quote]

There are plenty of ways to cheat at football and because they are rolling around on top of each other there''s less chance of the ref or cameras picking it up. Check out this article: http://www.rugbynetwork.net/main/s103/st21055.php And then you''ve got the more serious cheating such as eye gauaging and spearing which is far more prevalent in rugby than dangerous tackles that were made with intent in football. I made the reference to the ancient olympics because they would have to sprint and turn a corner and often competitiors would cut the corner or delibrately trip opponents or even throw the sandy gravel that they were running on in opponents eyes, this was merely a historical reference and I accept that in the modern Olympics there is very little scope for cheating with the exception, of cource, of drugs.

However harrassing the referee is one thing that I don''t like to see, and it doesn''t happen in rugby. I would like to see the players booked for harrassing the referee and until a few get sent off it''ll never stop.

Re: Liverpool between 1973 and 1990 they won 11 league titles, 3 FA cups, 4 League cups, 4 European Cups, 2 Uefa Cups and and European Super Cup. The point is that they dominated that era and have achieved nowhere near the success in the current era, perhaps Man Utd''s cycle has ended? Or coming to an end?

Again though i''ve got very few plausible solutions but whatever changes in football they have to start somewhere and they will take a long time to change the game as a whole.

Trus me I know it''s only your opinion, and I respect it, but it''s what this place is for and it makes a change to have a proper debate on here [:)]

[The Walking Man 13]

[quote user="Wings of a sparrow"]Uh oh! Be prepared for the blood capsules card to be played![/quote]

That would have been to easy! Besides that was a one off (I presume!) but there are for more prevalent acts of cheating that go in rugby such as not binding the scrum, getting up pushing the tackled player, ball not being put into the scrum straight, gauging...

[Yellowfuture 71]

The English players are not good enough. There are many reasons for this including the Premier League, my view is that there is not enough hunger and basic skills are not there. I was involved with NCFC Academy for  a number of years and saw boys with very quick feet and footballing brains being coached to a formula that inhibits their play and speed of thought, fits them into a framework and style of  play that is predictable.

In the South American coutries and Africa kids still play  football on the streets and they develop a hard  edge and high skill leves, personal expression which IMO can never be developed through  coaching in an accademy system. I believe we have it so fundamentally wrong here.

Any lad that is half decent is put into our system, treated like a young professional, provided with kit and all the gear and somehow they lose the edge.  I  dont know what the answer is and I am not decrying those that work in football development cos they are following dictat from FA, coaching manuals, coaching badges etc. But it doenst work!     

[Salopian 1]

There is an interesting question, which posters may have answered collectively.

Why is it that England have a reaonable record at junior level - all age groups up to under-21, but an increasingly poor record thereafter? Even Pearce had a good record at under-21 management, but no-one surely suggests him for the manager of our international team?

Is it that individual skills are not developed, - technically nearly all our players seem to lack instant control, accurate passing and accurate shot making.

Perhaps at aged 19 sheer athleticism is enough to be a reasonable team, but later you need more skill? (Having said that one of our problems on Sunday was a lack of pace in a rather elderly team.

[Mason 47 1,373]

Football has just changed. England were a good side when the game was mainly about industry and the physical side of competition because, in a national mindset, we seem to be pretty good at that. For some reason, technical brilliance has tended to bypass us save for one or two exceptions (the most notable recently obviously being Beckham).

The game these days has evolved into one more about the football-playing side of it, mainly due to the tighter regulations regarding said physical side of competition. That dampens the ''bulldog'' approarch a lot of England''s players are reknowned for- especially Rooney. Look at his ''Write the Future'' contribution, he plays a rubbish pass but then chases back for all he''s worth to tackle the opponent whilst other players shown are showcasing their skills on the ball. As I see it the problem with England is that it just doesn''t matter enough to them to chase that ball- where was Rooney''s dogged determination yesterday, in the real world?

This is something I''ve thought since seeing the reactions of our players at the final whistle yesterday- I think maybe Gerrard was seen crouching and looking sad, whilst the other players walked around swapping shirts and looking sad. Most other teams you see, the players are mortified to have been knocked out of the World Cup. I was asked by an American after the defeat yesterday which team I would follow now; after I said I probably wouldn''t maintain much of an interest, he took on a shocked expression and exclaimed ''But this is the world cup!. I believe a lot of other countries see the WC as ''the final stage'', the very pinnacle of world football it''s possible to participate in- England, for some reason, see it as just ''another stage'', so it doesn''t seem to matter as much how badly you play. Admittedly, I am not much of a carer for international football- I, as the average club fan, find it harder to really relate to the England team being as it is made up of people who earn gargantuan wages and come from a sum total of about 6 teams at the very top of the pyramid. If it''s ''our'' player out there- remember how it felt when Green made that England ''B'' game all those years ago, or to a lesser extent when you see Crouch in the team- I might be convinced to give more of a toss.

Some of the arguments surrounding this are similar to those that we as a club have pondered in recent years- loan players, for example. We''ve wondered whether Premiership loans really care about how they perform whilst they are here, because ultimately they''ll return to the safety of their parent club no matter if they play awfully and see us relegated; so similarly, do England players really care anymore if they perform occasionally for England if they know they''ll just return to the comfy 5/6-figure-sum-a-week adoration of their parent club regardless of what happens?

As we''ve noted through this transfer window, competition for places in our midfield is bloody high right now, a real battle.  Let''s say Fox starts the first game this season- he knows if he screws up, Smith, Surman, Lappin, Hughes or McNamee can and will replace him. Drury, though he has been a fine servant of the club and had a great season last season, knows that a bad performance or two may Steven Smith given a chance instead.
   England do not have this extra motivation. Gerrard knows he will play because there isn''t sufficient quality to displace him; Rooney knows he will play because he is the nation''s darling and again, there isn''t much opposing him in terms of quality. In addition, the fear of making a mistake is likely still to be high which would be why we see performances from England players that suggest they can''t do anything except nice short 10-yard passes. Players who can come in and do something clever to change a game just aren''t there- we needed 3 goals in 20 minutes yesterday and our answer was to take off Defoe and replace him with Heskey, which pretty much ended our fightback before if had begun. Where are our wildcard youth players (like Oli Johnson is to us) to throw at them? Non-existant.
Yesterday, I thought our best players were Defoe (when he managed to get near the ball), Milner (who actually did try to work back when he lost it) and James (he''s a goalkeeper, so 4-1 really talks), the first two being players who have no guarantees of being back in the team next time.

How many times have you heard of a British player who has come good, after being told they were ''too small'' to play professional football,? Case and point, Darren Huckerby. We''re all more than aware that he was a fantastically talented football player, yet he almost went out of the game early on because he wasn''t big enough. More time needs to be spent looking at both areas, rather than one. Perhaps the English pool just doesn''t have enough quality for this; though I''ll be damned if I can tell you why Spain, Portugal, France, Brazil and many other of the more successful nations of the world can find the quality in their ranks.

Phew [:|] Rant over. Perhaps I need a blog for next time [:P]

[Gingerpele 0]

[quote user="The Walking Man "][quote user="Gingerpele"][quote user="The Walking Man "]

7. Please tell me you were joking when you said that football is the sport were cheating is most rife? Ever since the ancient Olympics people have been  cheating to gain an advantage, I don''t like it as much as the next person but when compared to sports such as Rugby, football isn''t that bad...

Finally what about Liverpool dominating the 70''s and 80''s pre Sky?

[/quote]I have never heard, or seen of any cheating when i have watched Rugby (when will they be cheating? there isn''t much chance for it, when their just rolling around on top of each other [:P] ) but to even say olympics has more cheating, does it? There are lots of drug tests etc, but how do you cheat in a long jump, or sprint? without drugs, which not that many are taking (or they all our, and only a couple get found out....), While Football games, you can''t go through a football game, without someone faking an injury, or diving, or harrasing the ref etc....it may happen more in other sports, but not from what i have seen....Yeah well Liverpool suck [:P] I don''t know why Liverpool where so good, but did they win over 10 of the Division 1 titles in that time? Because thats what Man. U have done.....

Just a reminder, this is all my opinion, and i welcom your critizism/opinion as well, at least i know you read it all, which i was hoping someone did [:D][/quote]

There are plenty of ways to cheat at football and because they are rolling around on top of each other there''s less chance of the ref or cameras picking it up. Check out this article: http://www.rugbynetwork.net/main/s103/st21055.php And then you''ve got the more serious cheating such as eye gauaging and spearing which is far more prevalent in rugby than dangerous tackles that were made with intent in football. I made the reference to the ancient olympics because they would have to sprint and turn a corner and often competitiors would cut the corner or delibrately trip opponents or even throw the sandy gravel that they were running on in opponents eyes, this was merely a historical reference and I accept that in the modern Olympics there is very little scope for cheating with the exception, of cource, of drugs.

However harrassing the referee is one thing that I don''t like to see, and it doesn''t happen in rugby. I would like to see the players booked for harrassing the referee and until a few get sent off it''ll never stop.

Re: Liverpool between 1973 and 1990 they won 11 league titles, 3 FA cups, 4 League cups, 4 European Cups, 2 Uefa Cups and and European Super Cup. The point is that they dominated that era and have achieved nowhere near the success in the current era, perhaps Man Utd''s cycle has ended? Or coming to an end?

Again though i''ve got very few plausible solutions but whatever changes in football they have to start somewhere and they will take a long time to change the game as a whole.

Trus me I know it''s only your opinion, and I respect it, but it''s what this place is for and it makes a change to have a proper debate on here [:)]

[/quote]Ok, thanks for the examples, because i don''t follow Rugby much (only really England in majour tournaments [:P]), i''m not as aware of the problems...Would be nice if the Man U dominance is ending, they don''t seem to be getting the same youth through nowadays, in a short period, they have players like Beckham and Giggs come through, most recently? The two Braziialn Twins, but they only bought them a couple of seasons ago, same with Macheada....

[Gingerpele 0]

Good post Mason [:D]

[Big Slob 0]

I think at a young age there''s alot more emphasis on making the players good strong athletes, working on the physical side rather than developing and working on their ball skills and the technical side. The midfield for England versus Germany, Gerrard, Lampard, Barry and Milner. All for of these are good passers of the ball, are strong and have a decent shot on them. None of them are technically very good at all, no pace, ability to perform a trick and beat a man, limited movement off the ball. Joe Cole (and possibly Rooney) is the only player in the squad who is technically good, but the problem with Joe is that he''s often injured, lost a yard of pace and is getting on. I think coaches need to drum into players at a young age the importance off skill, ball retention etc, and not just focus on the physical side.

[Harry 0]

I''ve said for a number of years that the best thing that could happen to English Football is if all the top teams break away and form a European Super League and take Sky and their money with them.We can then return to having Clubs paying sensible wages and more English players gaining League experience as the foreign players wouldn''t come here if the money wasn''t here.

[ncfcrooferman 0]

some really good ideas on this thread but at the end of the day in my view youth football has killed English talent from the age of 5/6 adults are trying to coach kids tactics and how to play position long before they can even pass and trap a football.By the time some children are 15 they have been playing organised football for almost 10 years and dont want to play the game any more.Let kids be kids coats for goals and learn at their own pace not over coach them stop youth football till 14 just let them play for the school until that point.A mate of mine runs a under 12 side and was trying to get them to play with a sweeper :( at the end of the day kids won`t have any perception of this position and how to play it at that age so why even try ?? just give them a ball on the park they would develop so much more .......

[Yellowfuture 71]

[quote user="ncfcrooferman"]some really good ideas on this thread but at the end of the day in my view youth football has killed English talent from the age of 5/6 adults are trying to coach kids tactics and how to play position long before they can even pass and trap a football.By the time some children are 15 they have been playing organised football for almost 10 years and dont want to play the game any more.Let kids be kids coats for goals and learn at their own pace not over coach them stop youth football till 14 just let them play for the school until that point.A mate of mine runs a under 12 side and was trying to get them to play with a sweeper :( at the end of the day kids won`t have any perception of this position and how to play it at that age so why even try ?? just give them a ball on the park they would develop so much more .......[/quote]

 

 

 

Thats very true!

[Barclay hero 0]

[quote user="thefutureisyellow"]

The English players are not good enough. [/quote]

Exactly.  Sky and the newspaper media overhype the England players to the point that we believe anyone is a world beater just because they play in the premier league

James - "Calamity" has been around for years, had some good games for England, but also some shockers.  Club football this season with Portsmouth, relegated

Johnson - Played for a Liverpool side that had one of their worst seasons for years

A Cole - Injured for a long period, part of a Chelsea defence that won the Premier league that included Alex and Carvalho

Upson - Nearly got relegated with West Ham

Terry - only looks good because he plays alongside Portugal''s Carvalho

Lampard - bit of a flat track bully, needs the likes of Ballack alongside him to be effective

Gerrard - Out of form for Liverpool, spent most of the season struggling for form

Barry - reasonable season for Manchester City - who finished 5th

Milner - Good season for Villa but finished 6th

Rooney - had a good season for Manure til he got injured.  Plays as a lone striker for his club, not as effective in 4-4-2 for his country

Defoe - Good striker for Spurs but only joint 6th in last seasons score charts

J Cole - bit of a show pony, promised much in early days but now dropped by Chelsea

Wright-Phillips - like J Cole but without any end product.  Bought and then sold by Chelsea as surplus to requirements

Heskey - cant even score many for Wigan and finished 103rd in the goal charts this year with 3 goals - less than Lee Bowyer.  Nuff said

And these are the so-called best players in the country????  The Golden generation???