Russell Martin and the myth of Spillane

[morty 0]

[quote user="Davo"]Boyo'' wrote about Martin:

" Also when the opposition winger has the ball in a crossing position he is very slow in closing him down."

He also wrote:

"Also he tended to get too involved with the winger and often left wide gaps between him and the centre back allowing runners through."

Is it me or does these two points contradict each other? Surely he can''t be too far away from the winger and too involved with him at the same time?

I think your trying to find faults that don''t exist just to make your point that you prefer Spillane.

I would prefer we played Spillane over Martin because he''s come through the ranks but if he''s not good enough he shouldn''t play end of.

Davo[/quote][Y]

[Beauseant 0]

[quote user="Wallerboi"][quote user="Beauseant"][quote user="Wallerboi"]

For me russell martin struggled at times last year in a poor league. I think he is fairly weak in the air and even weaker in a tackle. He doesnt stand out often wich at times is a good thing but if you spend the game actually studying wot he does you will realise he is the weakest link in our defence. Seems like a player that doesnt want to take responsibility of situations wen perhaps he should be, he doesnt seem to really ever want the ball.

My biggest concern with him and someone has mentioned it is his defensive ability. He''s seems to easy to beat for me and if it was a problem last season then it will be a huge problem this season, especially if we are still playing the diamond where he will be exposed more often than not. I know a lot of people wont agree with me but out of the whole side he is my biggest wory.

[/quote]

 

Sorry, but are we talking about the same Russell Martin?

[/quote]

I think so, the same player that was deemed not good enough by the side that finished bottom of the Championship last season, also the same player that the majority of this board would like to see replaced next season by an academy product who has barely featured in the first team and has no/extemely little experience at Championship level

Thats the Russell Martin im talking about

[/quote]

 

Sorry, now I know that the collective football intelligence of this forum has written off Martin I will be happy to withdraw my previous argument and sign up for the lynch mob. I''m sure that Paul Lambert will also have noted this and will take the requisite action forthwith. Clearly being a virtual ever present in a Championship since signing counts for nothing when there are Academy products about.

[GJP 79]

[quote user="Boyo"]

Spillane:  Defensively he knows what he is doing.  He closes the player down well, he is good in the tackle and has a good understanding with the centre backs so he dosn''t leave wide open spaces for the runners to come into.  Also going forward he maybe dosn''t have a final ball like R.Martin but he can certainly make himself a threat.  His defensive attributes though tend to be a little bit better than R.Martin''s.  However if there was one thing to criticise him on it would be his heading is not very good and tends to get stuck underneath the ball.

[/quote]

I suggest you have a look at how easily a decent winger is able to get a cross in the box when he takes on Spillane (if he ever plays for us again against one).

For me, that stood out horribly way back at the start of the season when we played Brentford away, the ease of which their lad was able to put the ball in and I never really saw that situation improve throughout the season.

I don''t doubt that he''s happy to jump into a tackle but he lacks the pace to meet the danger, the pace to recover situations and the reading of the game to get himself in the right position. Fullback is an easy enough position to play if you''re not really being tested but, from what I''ve seen of Spillane, good attacking players (particularly ones with pace who can take on a defender) are going to leave him coming up very short.

Russell Martin, while obviously not the perfect player, is just a bit sharper, neater and tidier in everything he does.

 

[Bing Bang 0]

[quote user="Beauseant"][quote user="Wallerboi"][quote user="Beauseant"][quote user="Wallerboi"]

For me russell martin struggled at times last year in a poor league. I think he is fairly weak in the air and even weaker in a tackle. He doesnt stand out often wich at times is a good thing but if you spend the game actually studying wot he does you will realise he is the weakest link in our defence. Seems like a player that doesnt want to take responsibility of situations wen perhaps he should be, he doesnt seem to really ever want the ball.

My biggest concern with him and someone has mentioned it is his defensive ability. He''s seems to easy to beat for me and if it was a problem last season then it will be a huge problem this season, especially if we are still playing the diamond where he will be exposed more often than not. I know a lot of people wont agree with me but out of the whole side he is my biggest wory.

[/quote]

 

Sorry, but are we talking about the same Russell Martin?

[/quote]

I think so, the same player that was deemed not good enough by the side that finished bottom of the Championship last season, also the same player that the majority of this board would like to see replaced next season by an academy product who has barely featured in the first team and has no/extemely little experience at Championship level

Thats the Russell Martin im talking about

[/quote]

 

Sorry, now I know that the collective football intelligence of this forum has written off Martin I will be happy to withdraw my previous argument and sign up for the lynch mob. I''m sure that Paul Lambert will also have noted this and will take the requisite action forthwith. Clearly being a virtual ever present in a Championship since signing counts for nothing when there are Academy products about.

[/quote]

No not at all, look i aint a huge Spillane fan either, i dont think either of them are good enough. Martin is steady at times and that is it. He either plays average or poorly. Can you honestly remember him ever having a really good match?

I hope he proves me wrong and i eat my words but im afraid im pretty certain i wont be

[Davo 0]

Wallerboi said:

" He either plays average or poorly. Can you honestly remember him ever having a really good match?"

I could and would say the same about Edworthy yet he was in our championship winning side. Martin is a steady player I doubt he''ll ever win many MoM awards but that doesn''t mean he''s crap. It just means that when he''s playing well the team is playing well so he goes un-noticed. The game everyone mentions when bashing him is Orient, yes he was shocking but so was most of the team.

Davo

[Bill 1,788]

Russel Martin and the myth of Spillane

Sounds like the next Harry Potter film................. or the Harry Potter Heigham film

[RichT - The Biscuit 0]

I''ll have my two-penneth for what it''s worth!

I think I''ve only seen Spillane play half a dozen games (as have most of us) so coming to the conclusion that he''s some sort of right back genius is a bit premature.

Personally, I think he''s much more comfortable as a centre back than a right back, yes he can do a good job and did so when he scored a belter cutting in but that doesn''t make him the best right back option for next season.

I thought Martin was consistent last season and helped us keep a solid base defensively, he''s not everyones cup of tea clearly but I''ll go for consistency every week and he was exactly that!

Having said all of that to join the debate, wouldn''t be suprised at all if another arrived!

[Hairy Canary 668]

I don''t see much between them at the moment but I do feel Spillaine has potential to improve - unlike Martin. He''s better now than he was before he went to Luton and hopfully there''s more to come. I also feel he put in the best right back performances of anyone before he got injured and that he never really got back to that level when he came back. That often happens and I would be disappointed if he left.

Neither are world beaters but sometimes moving up a league brings out the best in some players. Edworthy is a good example when he ended up winning his place back from Helveg.

[Bing Bang 0]

[quote user="Davo"]Wallerboi said: " He either plays average or poorly. Can you honestly remember him ever having a really good match?" I could and would say the same about Edworthy yet he was in our championship winning side. Martin is a steady player I doubt he''ll ever win many MoM awards but that doesn''t mean he''s crap. It just means that when he''s playing well the team is playing well so he goes un-noticed. The game everyone mentions when bashing him is Orient, yes he was shocking but so was most of the team. Davo[/quote]

No!!

Edworthy was either average or very good. Martin is either average or very poor

[Yellowbeagle 0]

There really isnt much between them imo, Spillane has the potential, he tackles well, he gets up and down the pitch, he''s usually composed on the ball and has had some really good games (sheff wednesday on his debut, Man City in the cup, leyton Oirent) aswell as some pretty poor ones as you''d expect from someone just out of his teens. He probably has suffered abit from not having a specific position in his development but he''s still young. I think pace wise he''s just average and his heading should be alot better from someone who is over 6 ft. I like alot of other people probably see alittle more in him because he''s been developed via the club and i like seeing homegrown players in our side, but he still has to prove he''s good enough regardless.

There really isnt that much wrong with R.Martin at the level we just played at and we''ll soon see how he perform at Championship standard, i''m willing to give him a chance personally, if Lambert rates him it''s good enough for me. He seems just average in everything he does and is more steady than Spillane as you''d expect from someone whose got 4 years more experience. I cant really see why we have to choose between them, personally i''m happy for them to be our right backs next season. If neither player works out, i''d be happy to see a loan brought in now we dont have a whole team based on them.

 

 

[Northern Canary 0]

[quote user="I am a Banana"]spillane will be the #1 RB at this club within the next 2 seasons.[/quote]

Why? I don''t think Spillane is a bad player and i would be happy to see him in the side, but I agree with the post and I think we are still yet to see what his level is. Hes certainly worth a shot at the Championship but its hard to know how it will go, thats why I would like to see another right back brought in.

[Shyster 0]

[quote user="Beauseant"][quote user="Docs Big Nose that was at the Heart of the Defence"]

This has wound me up for a while now and I want to know what it is that makes Spillane so good and Russell Martin terrible?

Everyone always complains about Martin but I have never seen him have a poor game (apart from apparently Orient) or make a mistake once. Just because he isn''t a stand-out player doesn''t mean he shouldn''t play for us. People always refer to his time at Peterborough but can you expect anyone to play well with 10 other players who aen''t playing well? I wonder how many goals Chrissy would have got in that team?

Also the big myth is that Spillane is a world class right back and the sun shines out of his arse. Just because he is an academy product it doesn''t mean that he has the divine right to start before Martin. Sure Spillane had some good performances this season but they were against teams like Leyton Orient and when he came up against Sunderland he went and got himself sent off.

I know there is a minority on this board that agrees with me but I would like to know what specifically makes Russell Martin ''c r a p'' and Spillane an ''exciting prospect''.

[/quote]

As you know, I am one of that minority! Spillane was playing really well just before the injury, but to me he is more of a centre back. In addition he is prone to be a little rash on occasions, whereas Martin is much steadier. A classic example of what I mean (and I''ve quoted this before) came in the dying minutes at The Valley. Firstly, Spillane dived in unnecessarily near the corner of our box and gave a silly free kick away in a dangerous position, and in the resulting scramble Martin won the ball, deliberately drew a foul and then took an age to take the free kick , nearly taking us to the final whistle. I like Spillane, but Martin is the better right back.

[/quote]

As usual, Beau, writes much sense here. Having attended several Luton games the season before last, I''ve probably seen Spillane play more times than most here and I can confirm that he does play better through the centre of the park, be it as a centre-half or defensive midfielder.His performance against Premier opposition in the form of Man City in a domestic Cup a few seasons ago was outstanding - he played DMC that evening and was one of the best players on the pitch.

[barclay seats 4849 0]

[quote user="morty"]I agree with you big nose. A lot of people see Spillane through yellow and green tinted glasses. If Spillane was the exciting prospect that some people make him out to be he would have featured more last season.I think he has to prove himself pretty soon or he''ll be out.[/quote]

He was a fixture until he tore the hamstring ....I really do wonder if any of you lot ver manage to get to a game ? He is miles better than russell martin.

[RichT - The Biscuit 0]

Everyone has an opinion and we''re never gonna agree but I don''t people are blinkered, tell me where Russell Martim cost us that much last year, now before you say neither really did Spillane but who played the most!

One thing is for certain, clearly PL rated both of the

as they were in squad when available but as mentioned on so many of these debates, the only opinion that counts is that of PL and the coaching staff, the rest is just academic!

Can''t beat a good debate though

[Harry 0]

[quote user="RichT - The Biscuit"]Everyone has an opinion and we''re never gonna agree but I don''t people are blinkered, tell me where Russell Martim cost us that much last year, now before you say neither really did Spillane but who played the most! [/quote]Spillane would have had a longer run if he hadn''t been injured and we all know Lambert doesn''t like to change a winning side so IMO that''s why Martin had a run for as long as he did.

[GJP 79]

[quote user="barclay seats 4849 "]

 He is miles better than russell martin.[/quote]

But does Paul Lambert see it that way?

We''ll find out in the months (perhaps weeks) to come.

 

[Lambo 0]

Martin does a solid, decent yet unspectacular job. Exactly what I don''t mind seeing from my Full Backs. If he''s in the line up vs Watford I shan''t be complaining.

[Crew Cut Wes 0]

I''m sorry, has everyone forgotten that goal Spillane scored against Orient? Can''t see R. Martin doing that.

I don''t think Martin''s poo but the fact that its hard to differentiate the quality of the two and that Spillane is 3 years younger with less experience, I''d take Spillane over Martin any day.

[thirdlion 0]

No, my memory is hazy - can you remind me of said goal? I don''t think its come up before.

[grantroederdisaster 0]

Russell Martin done a solid job for us last season and will probably do a reasonable squad job for us in the Championship!

 

Spillane also was solid but looks injury prone.

 

In my opinion both of them are right backs and nothing else. It was painful watching Martin play in midfield at Charlton although we got away with it. Spillane is not strong enough in the air to ever become an established centreback, anyone that says hes more than an emergency CB is wide of the mark! 

 

I think both of them are capable of doing a job at right back next season!

[Tangible Fixed Assets anyone? 0]

[quote user="morty"]I agree with you big nose. A lot of people see Spillane through yellow and green tinted glasses. If Spillane was the exciting prospect that some people make him out to be he would have featured more last season.

I think he has to prove himself pretty soon or he''ll be out.
[/quote]

In fairness morty he was in the first team and then got injured, which kept him on the sidelines for quite a while.

 

[morty 0]

[quote user="Tangible Fixed Assets anyone"]

[quote user="morty"]I agree with you big nose. A lot of people see Spillane through yellow and green tinted glasses. If Spillane was the exciting prospect that some people make him out to be he would have featured more last season.I think he has to prove himself pretty soon or he''ll be out.[/quote]

In fairness morty he was in the first team and then got injured, which kept him on the sidelines for quite a while.

 

[/quote]This I know. But I think that he has had nearly long enough to turn himself from "promising academy product" into "genuine first team contender" now. See my earlier question asking "What would you think of him if he was a player we had bought in?"He needs to step up to the plate VERY soon for me.

[RichT - The Biscuit 0]

Morty,

I''m with you, he''s now in his 20''s, seemingly had an excellent season with Luton where he played Centre Half or Centre Midfield.

He''s not a full back in my view (just my view so please don''t get offended anyone who thinks differently) but I think he would make an excellent Centre Half, unfortunately I don''t see him getting in there ahead of Ward, Askou or Whitbread before even thinking about Nelson and Stephens.

Maybe Lambert also sees him as a Centre Half which is why Spillane has got itchy feet and seeking a move???

[thirdlion 0]

He''ll never be a top Championship quality centre half. He''ll never have the speed or the ability in the air.

[Matt Morriss 69]

What a ridiculous post. Anyone who saw enough of Spillane and Martin, which i did, should be well aware of the ability of our 2 right backs.

Martin wad on the whole solid but did often seem a bit ineffective once he''d crossed the half way line and in my opinion didnt seem to be any better than Otsemobor, apart from being better at heading and bit more solid defensively.

Spillane on the other hand impressed me, tenacious in defece and effective getting forward, he reminds me of Johnson, pacey likes to get forward and get involved but a strong tackler and knows his defensive responsibilities.

Id pick Spillane over Martin every day of thr week.

[missing in action? 0]

Best i saw spillane play was at Defensive midfield against man City in the carling cup. Ive always seen him as a good DM and never understood why he wasnt considered there again.

[Tangible Fixed Assets anyone? 0]

[quote user="morty"][quote user="Tangible Fixed Assets anyone"]

[quote user="morty"]I agree with you big nose. A lot of people see Spillane through yellow and green tinted glasses. If Spillane was the exciting prospect that some people make him out to be he would have featured more last season.

I think he has to prove himself pretty soon or he''ll be out.
[/quote]

In fairness morty he was in the first team and then got injured, which kept him on the sidelines for quite a while.

 

[/quote]

This I know. But I think that he has had nearly long enough to turn himself from "promising academy product" into "genuine first team contender" now. [/quote]

I agree that he has got to establish himself as a first team regular this season.

[GJP 79]

[quote user="Barclayman"]What a ridiculous post. Anyone who saw enough of Spillane and Martin, which i did, should be well aware of the ability of our 2 right backs. Martin wad on the whole solid but did often seem a bit ineffective once he''d crossed the half way line and in my opinion didnt seem to be any better than Otsemobor, apart from being better at heading and bit more solid defensively. Spillane on the other hand impressed me, tenacious in defece and effective getting forward, he reminds me of Johnson, pacey likes to get forward and get involved but a strong tackler and knows his defensive responsibilities. Id pick Spillane over Martin every day of thr week.[/quote]

Yeaah, to be honest it''s a bit surprising Spillane is being linked with Brentford and not a bigger club, maybe even a Premier League club. He''s got so much going for him both defensively and from an attacking point of view.

I''m sure Paul Lambert will realise what a talent he has got on his hands and will look to use him as his first choice right back next season.

[Syteanric 1]

Spillanes a handy player and i think has a few goals in him.. i dont think Russ Martin is as bad as has been mentioned in the past, but i do feel he is an "old style" Full back, and in an attacking team doesnt quite fit in.

[Legend Iwan 30]

[quote user="GJP"]

 

Yeaah, to be honest it''s a bit surprising Spillane is being linked with Brentford and not a bigger club, maybe even a Premier League club. He''s got so much going for him both defensively and from an attacking point of view.

I''m sure Paul Lambert will realise what a talent he has got on his hands and will look to use him as his first choice right back next season.

[/quote]

Maybe that hasn''t happened because he isn''t as good as you believe.

I don''t believe RB is the best position for Spillane, but as defensive midfielder. I agree he is talented at his defensive duties, however, he still has lots to learn and next season will hopefully offer him the chance to gain all the necessary experience.