Russell Martin and the myth of Spillane

[Morisons Prozac 0]

This has wound me up for a while now and I want to know what it is that makes Spillane so good and Russell Martin terrible?

Everyone always complains about Martin but I have never seen him have a poor game (apart from apparently Orient) or make a mistake once. Just because he isn''t a stand-out player doesn''t mean he shouldn''t play for us. People always refer to his time at Peterborough but can you expect anyone to play well with 10 other players who aen''t playing well? I wonder how many goals Chrissy would have got in that team?

Also the big myth is that Spillane is a world class right back and the sun shines out of his arse. Just because he is an academy product it doesn''t mean that he has the divine right to start before Martin. Sure Spillane had some good performances this season but they were against teams like Leyton Orient and when he came up against Sunderland he went and got himself sent off.

I know there is a minority on this board that agrees with me but I would like to know what specifically makes Russell Martin ''c r a p'' and Spillane an ''exciting prospect''.

[I am a Banana 0]

fans prefer spillane because he is ''ours'' and had come through the academy whereas RM hasn''t!

[thirdlion 0]

Bingo. He''s from the Academy - and this means some posters on here think he''s the next Gary Neville.

[morty 0]

I agree with you big nose. A lot of people see Spillane through yellow and green tinted glasses. If Spillane was the exciting prospect that some people make him out to be he would have featured more last season.I think he has to prove himself pretty soon or he''ll be out.

[Metal Militia 0]

I don''t see many people slating Martin it''s just that many of us rate Spillane and would be happy to see them both staying and competing for the same position. If Spillane did go we won''t get much for him and I would rather see what cash we do have being spent on a goal keeper, then right midfielder, then a forward, not to replace a right back who IMO is good enough for the Championship.

[Graham Humphrey 13]

Exactly.  With the way some people talk about him you''d think we''ve got Maicon waiting to come in at right back.  He''s okay in League One but he''s not really progressed at all since he made his debut.  If he was a player we went out and bought many fans would be disappointed.

[I am a Banana 0]

spillane will be the #1 RB at this club within the next 2 seasons.

[Graham Humphrey 13]

If the rumours linking him with Brentford are true he won''t be here within the next two weeks I''d have thought.

[CambridgeCanary 0]

Sorry, I see loads of people slagging Martin and so will you if you go to the other thread.  

Does it have to be either/or?  I actually rate both of them.

[Beauseant 0]

[quote user="Docs Big Nose that was at the Heart of the Defence"]

This has wound me up for a while now and I want to know what it is that makes Spillane so good and Russell Martin terrible?

Everyone always complains about Martin but I have never seen him have a poor game (apart from apparently Orient) or make a mistake once. Just because he isn''t a stand-out player doesn''t mean he shouldn''t play for us. People always refer to his time at Peterborough but can you expect anyone to play well with 10 other players who aen''t playing well? I wonder how many goals Chrissy would have got in that team?

Also the big myth is that Spillane is a world class right back and the sun shines out of his arse. Just because he is an academy product it doesn''t mean that he has the divine right to start before Martin. Sure Spillane had some good performances this season but they were against teams like Leyton Orient and when he came up against Sunderland he went and got himself sent off.

I know there is a minority on this board that agrees with me but I would like to know what specifically makes Russell Martin ''c r a p'' and Spillane an ''exciting prospect''.

[/quote]

As you know, I am one of that minority! Spillane was playing really well just before the injury, but to me he is more of a centre back. In addition he is prone to be a little rash on occasions, whereas Martin is much steadier. A classic example of what I mean (and I''ve quoted this before) came in the dying minutes at The Valley. Firstly, Spillane dived in unnecessarily near the corner of our box and gave a silly free kick away in a dangerous position, and in the resulting scramble Martin won the ball, deliberately drew a foul and then took an age to take the free kick , nearly taking us to the final whistle. I like Spillane, but Martin is the better right back.

[Morisons Prozac 0]

The name of this thread looks like a novell title. [:)]

[I am a Banana 0]

[quote user="Beauseant"][quote user="Docs Big Nose that was at the Heart of the Defence"]

This has wound me up for a while now and I want to know what it is that makes Spillane so good and Russell Martin terrible?

Everyone always complains about Martin but I have never seen him have a poor game (apart from apparently Orient) or make a mistake once. Just because he isn''t a stand-out player doesn''t mean he shouldn''t play for us. People always refer to his time at Peterborough but can you expect anyone to play well with 10 other players who aen''t playing well? I wonder how many goals Chrissy would have got in that team?

Also the big myth is that Spillane is a world class right back and the sun shines out of his arse. Just because he is an academy product it doesn''t mean that he has the divine right to start before Martin. Sure Spillane had some good performances this season but they were against teams like Leyton Orient and when he came up against Sunderland he went and got himself sent off.

I know there is a minority on this board that agrees with me but I would like to know what specifically makes Russell Martin ''c r a p'' and Spillane an ''exciting prospect''.

[/quote]

As you know, I am one of that minority! Spillane was playing really well just before the injury, but to me he is more of a centre back. In addition he is prone to be a little rash on occasions, whereas Martin is much steadier. A classic example of what I mean (and I''ve quoted this before) came in the dying minutes at The Valley. Firstly, Spillane dived in unnecessarily near the corner of our box and gave a silly free kick away in a dangerous position, and in the resulting scramble Martin won the ball, deliberately drew a foul and then took an age to take the free kick , nearly taking us to the final whistle. I like Spillane, but Martin is the better right back.

[/quote]I think to play spillane at CB with very little exp woudl be wrong so he will be 3rd choice and like i said be #1 choice in 2 seasons time

[Legend Iwan 30]

[quote user="I am a Banana"]I think to play spillane at CB with very little exp woudl be wrong so he will be 3rd choice and like i said be #1 choice in 2 seasons time[/quote]

So if he was to go CB for us now he would be 3rd choice, I highly doubt he would be above any of the current CB''s we currently have. Also if in accordance with Lambert''s plans for the future, 2 seasons time, will see us fighting for prmotion if not in it.

Why would he be up to that job then and not 1st choice now?

[Beauseant 0]

[quote user="I am a Banana"][quote user="Beauseant"][quote user="Docs Big Nose that was at the Heart of the Defence"]

This has wound me up for a while now and I want to know what it is that makes Spillane so good and Russell Martin terrible?

Everyone always complains about Martin but I have never seen him have a poor game (apart from apparently Orient) or make a mistake once. Just because he isn''t a stand-out player doesn''t mean he shouldn''t play for us. People always refer to his time at Peterborough but can you expect anyone to play well with 10 other players who aen''t playing well? I wonder how many goals Chrissy would have got in that team?

Also the big myth is that Spillane is a world class right back and the sun shines out of his arse. Just because he is an academy product it doesn''t mean that he has the divine right to start before Martin. Sure Spillane had some good performances this season but they were against teams like Leyton Orient and when he came up against Sunderland he went and got himself sent off.

I know there is a minority on this board that agrees with me but I would like to know what specifically makes Russell Martin ''c r a p'' and Spillane an ''exciting prospect''.

[/quote]

As you know, I am one of that minority! Spillane was playing really well just before the injury, but to me he is more of a centre back. In addition he is prone to be a little rash on occasions, whereas Martin is much steadier. A classic example of what I mean (and I''ve quoted this before) came in the dying minutes at The Valley. Firstly, Spillane dived in unnecessarily near the corner of our box and gave a silly free kick away in a dangerous position, and in the resulting scramble Martin won the ball, deliberately drew a foul and then took an age to take the free kick , nearly taking us to the final whistle. I like Spillane, but Martin is the better right back.

[/quote]I think to play spillane at CB with very little exp woudl be wrong so he will be 3rd choice and like i said be #1 choice in 2 seasons time

[/quote]

 

I think you''ll find that he''s played at centre back much more often than at right back over his career. If he''s our number one right back in two seasons we will be in trouble.

 

[I am a Banana 0]

[quote user="Beauseant"][quote user="I am a Banana"][quote user="Beauseant"][quote user="Docs Big Nose that was at the Heart of the Defence"]

This has wound me up for a while now and I want to know what it is that makes Spillane so good and Russell Martin terrible?

Everyone always complains about Martin but I have never seen him have a poor game (apart from apparently Orient) or make a mistake once. Just because he isn''t a stand-out player doesn''t mean he shouldn''t play for us. People always refer to his time at Peterborough but can you expect anyone to play well with 10 other players who aen''t playing well? I wonder how many goals Chrissy would have got in that team?

Also the big myth is that Spillane is a world class right back and the sun shines out of his arse. Just because he is an academy product it doesn''t mean that he has the divine right to start before Martin. Sure Spillane had some good performances this season but they were against teams like Leyton Orient and when he came up against Sunderland he went and got himself sent off.

I know there is a minority on this board that agrees with me but I would like to know what specifically makes Russell Martin ''c r a p'' and Spillane an ''exciting prospect''.

[/quote]

As you know, I am one of that minority! Spillane was playing really well just before the injury, but to me he is more of a centre back. In addition he is prone to be a little rash on occasions, whereas Martin is much steadier. A classic example of what I mean (and I''ve quoted this before) came in the dying minutes at The Valley. Firstly, Spillane dived in unnecessarily near the corner of our box and gave a silly free kick away in a dangerous position, and in the resulting scramble Martin won the ball, deliberately drew a foul and then took an age to take the free kick , nearly taking us to the final whistle. I like Spillane, but Martin is the better right back.

[/quote]I think to play spillane at CB with very little exp woudl be wrong so he will be 3rd choice and like i said be #1 choice in 2 seasons time

[/quote]

 

I think you''ll find that he''s played at centre back much more often than at right back over his career. If he''s our number one right back in two seasons we will be in trouble.

 

[/quote]

He will only get better so maybe a season on loan and then a seaso back here and then he will be #1 Cb or RB

[Boyo 0]

Well personally, this is how I look at them both:

R.Martin:  He isn''t overly strong in the air and is not very convincing when he does head it.  I remember him in one game heading it just outside the 18yard box everytime in the first half.  He seemed to do this a lot all be it not as much as in this particular game.  Also when the opposition winger has the ball in a crossing position he is very slow in closing him down.  This either allows a cross to be put in or gives the winger a good run at Martin.  Also his distribution was quite poor.  Once he got in attacking positions he was good but distributing it from the defence wasn''t that good.  Also he tended to get too involved with the winger and often left wide gaps between him and the centre back allowing runners through.  However he was good going forward.

Spillane:  Defensively he knows what he is doing.  He closes the player down well, he is good in the tackle and has a good understanding with the centre backs so he dosn''t leave wide open spaces for the runners to come into.  Also going forward he maybe dosn''t have a final ball like R.Martin but he can certainly make himself a threat.  His defensive attributes though tend to be a little bit better than R.Martin''s.  However if there was one thing to criticise him on it would be his heading is not very good and tends to get stuck underneath the ball.

Overall I would say that Spillane is better defensively and R.Martin is better going forward.  However going forward R.Martin isn''t miles ahead of Spillane but defensivley Spillane is comfortably better than R.Martin IMO.  So then for the Championship I would rather have a better defensive right back than attacking one.

[Morisons Prozac 0]

Neither of those descriptions match. I think you are just saying what you want to hear.

[Jim Smith 2,498]

I actually thought that when he played Spillane got forward much more than any of our other rightbacks last season and did pose an attacking threat. Martin is also quite good going forward.

I don''t think Martin is terrible. I don''t think Spillane is amazing. What i do think is that I thought Martin looked defensively shaky in quite a few games last season and had some dreadful first halves at Carrow Road in particular. Although he can still make the odd rash tackle, Spillane was more solid defensively and just before he got injured he was playing really well in that right back slot. I think therefore he has more potential to make the step up to the championship.

Ultimately, in Lambert we trust but if Martin is a our regular right back next season i will be nervous about our defence. Having said that if he does play i sincerely hope he proves me wrong and certainly won''t be giving him stick.

[morty 0]

I put it to people, if we had paid money for Spillane, what would you think of him then?[:)]

[GJP 79]

[quote user="morty"]I put it to people, if we had paid money for Spillane, what would you think of him then?

[:)]
[/quote]

Or even worse...what if he was a loan player we had brought in?

[Bing Bang 0]

For me russell martin struggled at times last year in a poor league. I think he is fairly weak in the air and even weaker in a tackle. He doesnt stand out often wich at times is a good thing but if you spend the game actually studying wot he does you will realise he is the weakest link in our defence. Seems like a player that doesnt want to take responsibility of situations wen perhaps he should be, he doesnt seem to really ever want the ball.

My biggest concern with him and someone has mentioned it is his defensive ability. He''s seems to easy to beat for me and if it was a problem last season then it will be a huge problem this season, especially if we are still playing the diamond where he will be exposed more often than not. I know a lot of people wont agree with me but out of the whole side he is my biggest wory.

[Beauseant 0]

[quote user="Wallerboi"]

For me russell martin struggled at times last year in a poor league. I think he is fairly weak in the air and even weaker in a tackle. He doesnt stand out often wich at times is a good thing but if you spend the game actually studying wot he does you will realise he is the weakest link in our defence. Seems like a player that doesnt want to take responsibility of situations wen perhaps he should be, he doesnt seem to really ever want the ball.

My biggest concern with him and someone has mentioned it is his defensive ability. He''s seems to easy to beat for me and if it was a problem last season then it will be a huge problem this season, especially if we are still playing the diamond where he will be exposed more often than not. I know a lot of people wont agree with me but out of the whole side he is my biggest wory.

[/quote]

 

Sorry, but are we talking about the same Russell Martin?

[Yellow Rider 0]

[quote user="morty"]I agree with you big nose. A lot of people see Spillane through yellow and green tinted glasses. If Spillane was the exciting prospect that some people make him out to be he would have featured more last season.

I think he has to prove himself pretty soon or he''ll be out.
[/quote]

Er, have you forgotten that he missed several weeks (in fact ''months'') of the season with that nasty hamstring injury. At the time he had played a couple of games at right back and looked very solid and particularly impressive going forward. His goals v Orient was goal of the season for me. Had that injury not struck I think we all know that he would probably have gone on to nail down the place in his own right.   

[morty 0]

[quote user="Yellow Rider"]

[quote user="morty"]I agree with you big nose. A lot of people see Spillane through yellow and green tinted glasses. If Spillane was the exciting prospect that some people make him out to be he would have featured more last season.I think he has to prove himself pretty soon or he''ll be out.[/quote]

Er, have you forgotten that he missed several weeks (in fact ''months'') of the season with that nasty hamstring injury. At the time he had played a couple of games at right back and looked very solid and particularly impressive going forward. His goals v Orient was goal of the season for me. Had that injury not struck I think we all know that he would probably have gone on to nail down the place in his own right.   

[/quote]No I haven''t forgotten this fact.My point still remains that he needs to up his game a fair bit.

[Bing Bang 0]

[quote user="Beauseant"][quote user="Wallerboi"]

For me russell martin struggled at times last year in a poor league. I think he is fairly weak in the air and even weaker in a tackle. He doesnt stand out often wich at times is a good thing but if you spend the game actually studying wot he does you will realise he is the weakest link in our defence. Seems like a player that doesnt want to take responsibility of situations wen perhaps he should be, he doesnt seem to really ever want the ball.

My biggest concern with him and someone has mentioned it is his defensive ability. He''s seems to easy to beat for me and if it was a problem last season then it will be a huge problem this season, especially if we are still playing the diamond where he will be exposed more often than not. I know a lot of people wont agree with me but out of the whole side he is my biggest wory.

[/quote]

 

Sorry, but are we talking about the same Russell Martin?

[/quote]

I think so, the same player that was deemed not good enough by the side that finished bottom of the Championship last season, also the same player that the majority of this board would like to see replaced next season by an academy product who has barely featured in the first team and has no/extemely little experience at Championship level

Thats the Russell Martin im talking about

[G 0]

Maybe he would of featured more last season if he wasn''t injured...

[Bing Bang 0]

Yeah absolutely he would of done, why? coz russell martin isn''t good enough.

[G 0]

And what about Francomb? He has alot of potential, looked very good for the half i saw him play.

[Bing Bang 0]

Not seen him play unfortunately but must have somthing about him to have earned a new contract.

[Davo 0]

Boyo'' wrote about Martin:

" Also when the opposition winger has the ball in a crossing position he is very slow in closing him down."

He also wrote:

"Also he tended to get too involved with the winger and often left wide gaps between him and the centre back allowing runners through."

Is it me or does these two points contradict each other? Surely he can''t be too far away from the winger and too involved with him at the same time?

I think your trying to find faults that don''t exist just to make your point that you prefer Spillane.

I would prefer we played Spillane over Martin because he''s come through the ranks but if he''s not good enough he shouldn''t play end of.

Davo