Spillane gone (almost)

[Morisons Prozac 0]

[quote user="Mello Yello"][quote user="blahblahblah"][quote user="Mello Yello"]

Some of our resident experts thought Doherty was our best defender.....Lambert obviously didn''t.

 [/quote]

Or maybe, just maybe, Lambert thought he was ok, but could do better for the money.

Shades of grey Mello.

[/quote]

No maybes or shades of grey in my opinion.

It''s a common and known fact that Doherty wasn''t a first choice selection centre-back for Lambert when he took the reins last season, and it was after all the injuries to players that allowed Doherty an opportunity to be in the side. If Lambert''s first choice 3 central defenders had remained fit and injury free....I actually think the Doc would have been bench-warming and probably gone in the January transfer window on loan - or maybe sold.

If Lambert thought Doherty was a valuable asset, and also a essential piece of vertebrae in the NCFC defence backbone - he''d have made a real effort to retain his services....He didn''t, and I don''t just think it was down to finances.

I''m not a Doc detester by the way, I liked his spirit and effort....and some of his other average qualities. 

But I certainly wasn''t that disappointed when he was shown the door....I won''t miss him, and I don''t think the new side will....(neither will Lambert for that matter in my personal opinion). I''m actually, quite looking forward to seeing what Whitbread''s capable of alongside Askou - and also think Micky Nelson will be on the bench.

I certainly wish the Doc well for the rest of his career. Although, if his new team (if he finds one) are to play us next season in any competitive (or cup-games for that matter)....I do hope that the Doc plays really absolute stinkers.

[/quote]

I''m sorry I didn''t realise Ward''s deal fell through, do you honestly think Askou will start? Lambert will start with both his own signings with probably Nelson on the bench. Can see Askou dropping right down the  pecking order.

[Mello Yello 2,281]

[quote user="Docs Big Nose that was at the Heart of the Defence"][quote user="Mello Yello"][quote user="blahblahblah"][quote user="Mello Yello"]

Some of our resident experts thought Doherty was our best defender.....Lambert obviously didn''t.

 [/quote]

Or maybe, just maybe, Lambert thought he was ok, but could do better for the money.

Shades of grey Mello.

[/quote]

No maybes or shades of grey in my opinion.

It''s a common and known fact that Doherty wasn''t a first choice selection centre-back for Lambert when he took the reins last season, and it was after all the injuries to players that allowed Doherty an opportunity to be in the side. If Lambert''s first choice 3 central defenders had remained fit and injury free....I actually think the Doc would have been bench-warming and probably gone in the January transfer window on loan - or maybe sold.

If Lambert thought Doherty was a valuable asset, and also a essential piece of vertebrae in the NCFC defence backbone - he''d have made a real effort to retain his services....He didn''t, and I don''t just think it was down to finances.

I''m not a Doc detester by the way, I liked his spirit and effort....and some of his other average qualities. 

But I certainly wasn''t that disappointed when he was shown the door....I won''t miss him, and I don''t think the new side will....(neither will Lambert for that matter in my personal opinion). I''m actually, quite looking forward to seeing what Whitbread''s capable of alongside Askou - and also think Micky Nelson will be on the bench.

I certainly wish the Doc well for the rest of his career. Although, if his new team (if he finds one) are to play us next season in any competitive (or cup-games for that matter)....I do hope that the Doc plays really absolute stinkers.

[/quote]

I''m sorry I didn''t realise Ward''s deal fell through, do you honestly think Askou will start? Lambert will start with both his own signings with probably Nelson on the bench. Can see Askou dropping right down the  pecking order.

[/quote]

It hasn''t fell through....It''s an opinion, I haven''t seen what Ward''s capabilities are, and will make my opinion and personal judgement when I see him play.

[Jacko 0]

I am dissapointed by this decision. I think he has good ability and perhaps has suffered through his versatility meaning it has never been properly established whether his best position is midfield, centre back or full back. Judging him soley as a full back I think he had more ability than Russell Martin but Lambert sees him in training every day so will have his own ideas. Perhaps I and others have built him up because we are desperate for our youth academy to suceed but it is one of the few things that Lambert has done that I am unhappy about. However ultimately Lambert won the league at an absolute canter so who I am to criticise.

[Smudger 0]

[quote user="Gazza"]

Gutted in many aspects especially with him being home grown  think he is an excellent player and certainly an excellent squad member who can be utilised in a number of positions. Another loss to the squad today with Russell leaving also, I hope we have some deals lined up because the squad is the weaker for these two decisions!

Good luck Michael, hope you have a long & successful career.....

[/quote]I agree with this Bro... [Y]Certainly TWO losses to the squad, if not the first team and two players who will need to be replaced before the season kicks off in my opinion.We are now looking pretty weak at right-back and have no proven experience at Championship level in Russell''s crucial position at the base of the diamond.It would be a very big gamble indeed for Lambert to go with either Korey or Crofts at the base of the diamond week in week out in my opinion.  We still do not really have the players for a 4-4-2 in my opinion and both of these players are a loss to our midfield options which were starting to look pretty strong prior to the release of Russell/Spillane.We have at least covered the goalkeeper options today with the signing of Ruddy.To me we need to sign another 4 or 5 players after the loss of Russell and Spillane. Cover for right back/right midfield (an out and out right winger like Lloyd Sam on a FREE would also have been nice), a solid defensive centre midfielder who is strong in the tackle, at least one striker (possibly a back up target man for Holt if we choose to go for the out and out pace of Simeon Jackson) and I still wouldn''t rule out that we may need another centre half prior to Christmas either.The loss of these two players has left big gaps in what was looking like a nice jigsaw of a squad capable of a play-off push or more in my opinion.Without another two or three of these signings being made prior to the start of the season I am thinking that a mid-table finish would be good for us.  A few weeks ago I was hoping for so much more!

[Smudger 0]

[quote user="Mook"]This is weird because Smudger & First Wizard (among others) assured me that Lambert knew Spillane was our best defender and Lambert was going to be playing him at centre back next season.Smudger AND First Wizard are wrong???? I just don''t know who to trust any more *sob*[/quote]Think yo are talking out of your backside... [:P]What I actually said was that Zak Whitbread was the best centre half we had at the club last season and that I that I rated Askou and Spillane as better than Doherty.Remind me, has the Doc found a Championship Club to take him on a FREE transfer yet??? [:#]

[Smudger 0]

[quote user="Graham Humphrey"]

I thought when he was initially given a chance he showed a bit of promise but he''s never developed beyond that and appears to be a fairly ordinary lower league player.  In fact I''m almost glad he''s gone just to spite the deluded souls on here who think he''s the next Maicon.  But if he was that good he wouldn''t be off to the mighty Brentford.

Best of luck to the guy though.  I''m pretty sure he won''t go quite the same way as some of our so-called ''promising'' youngsters but will probably end up a run-of-the-mill League One or Two player.

[/quote]Hey, hey, hush your tongue young Graham... remember Brentford are the Barcelona of the lower Football Leagues! remember??? [:O]

[thirdlion 0]

I wonder which of Charlton or Brentford we''ll see in the Championship first.

[Smudger 0]

[quote user="Chalk"]Dissapointed about this. I know we will be bringing in another RB now but surely Spillane has the potential to be a much better player than Russell Martin will ever be. Think Spillane we be a regular in the Championship someday. Lets just hope we bring in a decent replacment because Martin is poor for the Championship imo.[/quote]I wonder if Lambert is paying Russell Martin more than Spillane was on?More than likely!How many on here consider Russell Martin a far superior player in the right back slot than Spillane is?Spillane can also cover for a variety of positions in midfield adding a bit of steel in the tackle in there.  All I can say is that Crofts best be one hell of a signing if we don''t sign another hard tackling midfielder!

[Smudger 0]

[quote user="thirdlion"]I wonder which of Charlton or Brentford we''ll see in the Championship first. [/quote]I would put good money on Brentford finishing higher than Charlton this coming season.I think that Charlton need to think about just surviving rather than thinking of the Championship for a few seasons.

[Montgomery Bumpkin 0]

Spillane - "can cover several positions".

Jack of all trades, master of none.

Didn''t make the grade, cheerio. We''ll never play you again!

[Beauseant 0]

[quote user="Smudger"][quote user="Chalk"]Dissapointed about this. I know we will be bringing in another RB now but surely Spillane has the potential to be a much better player than Russell Martin will ever be. Think Spillane we be a regular in the Championship someday. Lets just hope we bring in a decent replacment because Martin is poor for the Championship imo.
[/quote]

I wonder if Lambert is paying Russell Martin more than Spillane was on?

More than likely!

How many on here consider Russell Martin a far superior player in the right back slot than Spillane is?

Spillane can also cover for a variety of positions in midfield adding a bit of steel in the tackle in there. 

All I can say is that Crofts best be one hell of a signing if we don''t sign another hard tackling midfielder!
[/quote]

 

And that''s really the point Smudge. It''s all speculation in that none of us has really seen enough of Crofts, Fox and Smith to have a true picture. I appreciate your attachment to Rusty and Spillane, although I don''t fully agree with your assessment of either, but I think we have to trust Lambert a bit here. Are you coming to Dereham on Saturday to have a look at the new faces?

[Smudger 0]

[quote user="Mook"][quote user="Barclaybred"]

[quote user="Mook"]This is weird because Smudger & First Wizard (among others) assured me that Lambert knew Spillane was our best defender and Lambert was going to be playing him at centre back next season.Smudger AND First Wizard are wrong???? I just don''t know who to trust any more *sob*[/quote]

Sorry mook but add me to that list! ..I really rated spillane..[/quote]

Don''t get me wrong - I would like to have kept Spillane too. But I do feel he''s only rated so highly because he didn''t have enough matches to look ****. Sometimes your value goes up more when you don''t play than when you do!I just enjoy taking the rip out of Wizard & Smudger who absolutely assured me that Spillane was Lambert''s most important defender. Seems not.Put it this way. Have we really - I mean really - regretted selling Joe Lewis? He wasn''t the number one at our club, and had the chance to be a number one at Peterborough, but 400k seems like we got the better deal at the moment. Yes, Lewis & Spillane may go on to be great players, but we need the players NOW to keep us in the Championship, and if they''re not the ones then they''re better off elsewhere playing regularly.[/quote]Enjoy taking the rip out of me?Dear oh dear, you really must try harder... remind me how much money we lost on purchasing the far superior David Marshall when we could have played Joe Lewis again???Approx £500 to 600k  I think the difference was in the two keepers values?  Yes we re-couped this when Marshall was eventually sold to Cardiff after relegation but maybe that money would have been better spent on a whole host of other positions that we were found wanting in during our last few years in the Championship?Still it seems they are rated about as highly by a host of prospective purchasers and both to me have shown enough to suggest that they are not any better than a club that will be knocking around in the top half of the Championship.

[Smudger 0]

[quote user="Beauseant"]

[quote user="Smudger"][quote user="Chalk"]Dissapointed about this. I know we will be bringing in another RB now but surely Spillane has the potential to be a much better player than Russell Martin will ever be. Think Spillane we be a regular in the Championship someday. Lets just hope we bring in a decent replacment because Martin is poor for the Championship imo.[/quote]I wonder if Lambert is paying Russell Martin more than Spillane was on?More than likely!How many on here consider Russell Martin a far superior player in the right back slot than Spillane is?Spillane can also cover for a variety of positions in midfield adding a bit of steel in the tackle in there.  All I can say is that Crofts best be one hell of a signing if we don''t sign another hard tackling midfielder![/quote]

 

And that''s really the point Smudge. It''s all speculation in that none of us has really seen enough of Crofts, Fox and Smith to have a true picture. I appreciate your attachment to Rusty and Spillane, although I don''t fully agree with your assessment of either, but I think we have to trust Lambert a bit here. Are you coming to Dereham on Saturday to have a look at the new faces?

[/quote]Nope... I have promised myself that I am not going to do any of the friendlies this year mate.It is not an attachment I have to either player as such.  More a fact that I thought we had a very promising midfield  with many options put together for the coming season, which could have only been added to be purchasing an out and out right winger.  Spillane while not great, is a youngster who always gives 100%, gets stuck in and can cover a variety of positions - something which should not be overlooked in a reasonably small squad where the manager is working within a tight budget.Crofts I do not know enough about to judge whther he will be good enough to step in to Russell''s shoes and even had minor doubt''s over whether Russell would have been good enough at the base of the diamond for a promotion push.  I know that Fox is a good player but am starting to wonder how our midfield will shape up.  When Lambert brought Fox I thought that it was to mainly be used on the left hand side of the diamond instead of Lappin.  Since then Lambert has obviously trumped that by bringing in Surman.I think that the diamond needs 3 players in the midfield who are strong in the tackle to work at Championship level.  I think Surman and Fox will offer a good mix down the left hand side.  At the moment though we have narrowed our options at the base of the diamond and down the right hand side drastically by letting both Russell and Spillane go.  Who do we have as back up to Korey down the right hand side of the midfield now?  Nobody!  We also only have Korey and the unseen Crofts who could possibly offer enough protection at the base of the diamond.  The lack of options on the right hand side of our midfield is also compounded by the fact that the only right back we have with Championship experience was deemed 2nd choice by relegated Peterborough last season.I still do not feel we we have the right players to field a 4-4-2 and think that Lambert is intending on going with the diamond as his 1st choice plan of action again.Prior to letting these two players go I still thought we needed to add one to what we had.  Now I am slightly concerned that we need at least two new midfielders if not three to put in a sustained play-off push!

[Smudger 0]

[quote user="Montgomery Bumpkin"]

Spillane - "can cover several positions".

Jack of all trades, master of none.

Didn''t make the grade, cheerio. We''ll never play you again!

[/quote]I will remind you of that every time we play somebody out of position this coming season.

[Montgomery Bumpkin 0]

I''m moist with anticipation!

[Bill 1,788]

"have no proven experience at Championship level"What tosh. If that was the criteria, then no player would be able to gain Championship experience as they wouldn''t be played - because they " have no proven experience at Championship level". Liewise Forster would not be up to itas he had" no proven experience at Championship level". What proven Div 1 experience did Chris Martin have last season ? He had spent the season before fighting relegation with Luton - in a league below Div I.Players happily move between divisions. It is not like the difference between Rugby league and Rugby union. An enormous part is played by the organisation of the team and the motivation by the manager of the players - as with Nott''m Forest who came up out of the second tier to win the title, and then subsequently, the European Cup. The players that have been signed certainly look like they want to win. And undoubtedly have been sounded out as to whether they have the character to battle it out. How many players have we seen who have been described as a wasted talent ? Players who for many reasons just don''t seem to be able, or want, to apply themselves. I would suggest this lot coming in will have that application and a few weeks into the seaon they will have proven themselves.

[Smudger 0]

[quote user="City1st"]"have no proven experience at Championship level"What tosh. If that was the criteria, then no player would be able to gain Championship experience as they wouldn''t be played - because they " have no proven experience at Championship level". Liewise Forster would not be up to itas he had" no proven experience at Championship level". What proven Div 1 experience did Chris Martin have last season ? He had spent the season before fighting relegation with Luton - in a league below Div I.Players happily move between divisions. It is not like the difference between Rugby league and Rugby union. An enormous part is played by the organisation of the team and the motivation by the manager of the players - as with Nott''m Forest who came up out of the second tier to win the title, and then subsequently, the European Cup. The players that have been signed certainly look like they want to win. And undoubtedly have been sounded out as to whether they have the character to battle it out. How many players have we seen who have been described as a wasted talent ? Players who for many reasons just don''t seem to be able, or want, to apply themselves. I would suggest this lot coming in will have that application and a few weeks into the seaon they will have proven themselves.

[/quote]The same kind of tosh that the FA base their evidence on when saying that Capello has the best CV for the England job??? [:|]Yes a few players break the mould every season and show that they have the ability to play at a higher level.  Does this mean that you would want to go in to a new league with almost an entire team of players who do not have experience at that level???

[Smudger 0]

[quote user="Montgomery Bumpkin"]I''m moist with anticipation![/quote]lol... [+o(]

[7rew 0]

Smudger: wasn''t experience at international level the main rational behind the recent England Team selection?

Germany on the other hand didn''t seem to consider that....

[Binky 0]

Both surprised and disappointed by this decision - whilst we cannot know all the reasons, it is hardly the case that we have too much cover at RB is it? And as others have said, he looked OK in the centre too. Thought he was looking an effective tidy tackler before his injury and he scored a decent goal too. Lambert obviously has a tight budget and cannot carry too many spare parts, but this is one player I would like to see more of - I think he will still progress his career and I hope we got a sell-on clause. On this basis, there must be a number of midfielders who will also be shown the door.