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Mister Chops

Why would any sane footballer play for England?

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Starting from a position of being useless at sport - the only thing I was ever world class at was having a bad teenage mullet.  But I wonder how much players really do want to play for their country.Our elite international players are all at big, big clubs and they earn millions of pounds a year for their work.  Added to this, for most of them, is the glamour of European football.  They play with other international players from around the world, the very best players on the planet, each of them highly gifted in their own roles.  They are idolised by their club''s fans, treated like heroes and worshipped.What''s really in it for them to play for England?  They say it used to be every schoolboy''s dream to play for England, but really?  I would imagine many schoolboys would look at the dream lifestyle footballers have through their club football, and then ask exactly what do footballers get for playing for their country.  Money?  No.  Fame?  No more than at club level.  Travel?  No more than you would experience at club level, less perhaps than Manchester United who travel the world playing football.No, it seems the only thing you can get as an England player is your career ruined by making a mistake and having the media vultures tear strips off you while the public, fuelled with unrealistic ambition by the media machine and the commercial interests which fuel this orgy of drinking, consuming and blind "Ing-er-land" culture, can''t wait for you to play again next season so they can all abuse you.  Look at the treatment given to David Beckham after France 98 - look at the hysteria surrounding Rob Green now, where his error means we drew a match against the group''s toughest side, nothing more.We talk about wanting players to express themselves, but that''s not what

we want at all.  We want them to make no errors.  No wonder our players play on the international stage with such fear and timidity - they know that cocking up could be the end of their international career and their wonderful club careers, as they return home with their reputation in tatters.So seriously - why the hell would anyone want to play for England?

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[quote user="Mister Chops"]Starting from a position of being useless at sport - the only thing I was ever world class at was having a bad teenage mullet.  But I wonder how much players really do want to play for their country.

Our elite international players are all at big, big clubs and they earn millions of pounds a year for their work.  Added to this, for most of them, is the glamour of European football.  They play with other international players from around the world, the very best players on the planet, each of them highly gifted in their own roles.  They are idolised by their club''s fans, treated like heroes and worshipped.

What''s really in it for them to play for England?  They say it used to be every schoolboy''s dream to play for England, but really?  I would imagine many schoolboys would look at the dream lifestyle footballers have through their club football, and then ask exactly what do footballers get for playing for their country.  Money?  No.  Fame?  No more than at club level.  Travel?  No more than you would experience at club level, less perhaps than Manchester United who travel the world playing football.

No, it seems the only thing you can get as an England player is your career ruined by making a mistake and having the media vultures tear strips off you while the public, fuelled with unrealistic ambition by the media machine and the commercial interests which fuel this orgy of drinking, consuming and blind "Ing-er-land" culture, can''t wait for you to play again next season so they can all abuse you.  Look at the treatment given to David Beckham after France 98 - look at the hysteria surrounding Rob Green now, where his error means we drew a match against the group''s toughest side, nothing more.

We talk about wanting players to express themselves, but that''s not what we want at all.  We want them to make no errors.  No wonder our players play on the international stage with such fear and timidity - they know that cocking up could be the end of their international career and their wonderful club careers, as they return home with their reputation in tatters.

So seriously - why the hell would anyone want to play for England?

[/quote]

 

Great post. I read the inevitable headlines with a heavy heart this morning. If I''d been Capello I would have punched the idiot reporter who asked if he''d play Green against Algeria, as if that was the most important question to ask straight after the game. Yes, it was an awful error, but for God''s sake show me a player who has never screwed up. Only journalists are infallible (in their own imaginations).

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Presuming you''re good enough to play:

Money

Girls

Kudos

Big House

Nice Car

are all reasons to play for England. Poor old Greeno and numerous turnips down the years have all suffered dreadfully from being picked and failing to perform for England. They all get over it eventually. Gareth Southgate & Chris Waddle have carved lucrative careers out of bringing shame on our footballing nation.

I''d glady make a fool of myself in the name of England for 1% of what they get. Expect to seen Green on Question of Sport laughing about it sometime soon.

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Because if you win playing for a big club your great. If you win the world cup your a legend.

When your on 100k a week you can buy anything you want boats, cars women and hangers on.

You cannot buy a world cup though.

Its also the worlds largest shop window thus good world cup = $$$$$$$$$

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I think your taking Green''s national criticism way OTT Mister Chops, anyone would think Green is on Britains most wanted list with the way you are harping on. The guy made a costly mistake and has consequently been the tabloids scapegoat for England''s disappointing world cup start, fans in locals boozers up and down the country will no doubt  have a moan about his mistake, some may even solely blame him for England''s World Cup exit should it happen anytime soon. But this will all be blown over and be forgotten about in a couple of weeks (probably sooner) as we''ll all have something far better to talk about by then, but yes I''m sure right now Green isn''t feeling to great about himself and if he ever gets the chance to read a few local tabloid headlines it would probably make his stomach turn, but he''s a strong character, he''ll just get on with the task in hand and continue to fight for his place in the team.As for your daft question "Why would any sane footballer play for England?" Well I should have thought that''s blatantly obvious isn''t it? The World cup is the pinnacle of any players career, it''s an opportunity for any player to put his name down in the history books as a national legend and even boost his club level profile, as nothing puts your name in the shop window of top European club more than a successful world cup, it could practically double a players valuation. Of course all of this comes at a risk of being humiliated and being nationally slaughtered for a week, rightly or wrongly who cares, it''s a risk any sane football would give anything to take. Now give it a rest with the negative bull****.

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[quote user="Wembley_Canary"]Now give it a rest with the negative bull****.[/quote]Not sure if you missed it, but the national media have been full of negativity this weekend. I wonder why?

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I love the irony of someone coming on here, having a long, whiney rant about someone else''s opinion, then ending it with ''give it a rest with the negative bull****''.  You don''t have to read it sunshine, although by the looks of it I don''t think you did anyway.  Usually if you''re commenting on something then it helps to have some idea of the subject at hand, and you quite clearly haven''t been paying any attention to the media frenzy both in the lead-up to and following England''s first World Cup game.  In case you''ve missed it, Robert Green - ex-Norwich City player at whom many of us used to chant ''England''s Number 1'', someone many of us may have met, and an all-round affable chap - has been front page news with disparaging headlines and much discussion from pundits and public mongoloids about his future.Anyway... excellent post, Chops, my thoughts entirely.  Its becoming a poisoned chalice to play for England, and its almost entirely down to our media.  Some of the blame should also lie with the FA, though, for allowing their players so much exposure on unrelated matters in the build-up - adverts with Lou and Andy, fun and frolicks with James ''Smithy'' Corden, their faces on just about every product imaginable.  Let them get on with the football preparation!Incidentally, I heard on R5 yesterday that someone had done a study of all the national teams and their past 38 games - how far they''ve got in Cup competitions, how many wins, etc - and allocated points based on a normal domestic Premiership season.  It turns out that England are the Aston Villa of national football! And yet we''re told to expect them to win every game and every tournament.We all want England to win the World Cup, and we''re just as likely to achieve that as many of the other teams in the competition - but its going to take a lot of luck and moments of outstanding glory.  Without those, I''m afraid its Uefa Cup qualification and a summer of trying to hang onto our best players, once again...

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....and this morning we have the statutory sports hack on SSN pompously denouncing Capello''s selection of the injury prone King as a "another major error"  by the manager while conveniently ignoring the fact that his paper had whinged endlessly for his inclusion.

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Was Greeno affected by only being told 2 hours before the game that he was selected. Interesting point and I think that is quite likely to affect certain players. Maybe Capello  got it wrong on this one.

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Beau, the best one I found was in a BBC Blog:

The choice to pick king was wrong because of his injury problems. Followed almost immediately by: The defence of Carragher/Terry was too slow.

So either, we use the fit ones and have a slow defence or it was right to pick King and hope he doesn''t get injured.

On the original subject I would alter the question to why would any sane footballer play for England while not playing for ManU/Chelsea/Liverpool/Arsenal. Playing for one of these apparently grants immunity from tabloid prosecution (at least for playing badly) which necessarily means that the others get caned.

Look at the criticism of Heskey and Wright-Phillips for their misses and compare to the notices given to the totally absent Lampard and Rooney.

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It seems that Mr Chops is making the mistake of assuming that if you have money  then suddenly you stop being patriotic.(see also the flags thread)

Most footballers play because of love of the game, the money that goes with it now makes it better by far for them, but I think that, as in the "olden days" if the money was not there thay would still play because the game "is in the blood".

Therefore the pinnacle  is to "play for your country" money does not alter that, nor can it buy it. You are there on YOUR merit.

Unfortunately you expose youself to the mindless cretins that inhabit the modern tabloid press, do you take seriously what they print?

I don''t so why should they!

What better feeling can there be than to hold a gold medal, a trophy or a cup "On behalf of your Country". Again you can''t buy memories like that.(I still have the county shirt I was awarded nearly 50 years ago)

The reasons to play are simple, you played for your village/town/city, then your district then your county, then...........Is that not what ALL sportspersons (got it right) strive for?

 

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Didn''t a Mr Sutton of the county of Norfolk once decide he would only play for England on his own terms - tabloids still got him tho''.

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[quote user="7rew"]Beau, the best one I found was in a BBC Blog: The choice to pick king was wrong because of his injury problems. Followed almost immediately by: The defence of Carragher/Terry was too slow. So either, we use the fit ones and have a slow defence or it was right to pick King and hope he doesn''t get injured. On the original subject I would alter the question to why would any sane footballer play for England while not playing for ManU/Chelsea/Liverpool/Arsenal. Playing for one of these apparently grants immunity from tabloid prosecution (at least for playing badly) which necessarily means that the others get caned. Look at the criticism of Heskey and Wright-Phillips for their misses and compare to the notices given to the totally absent Lampard and Rooney.[/quote]

 

Being a journalist means never having to say you''re sorry! You are judge, jury and executioner, but you can''t criticise the Lampards and Rooneys of this world because your paper might miss out on that next exclusive interview. Much better to hammer the players who don''t chose to live their lives for public consumption and therefore have no way of hitting back.

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Gerrard was on with that fat bloke playing golf last night and was saying that the players do know what it means, and of course they do, they''ve grown up with it.  They also get a kick out of seeing themselves on the merchandise / licensed software I''m sure.  But while they''re over in South Africa, they probably aren''t paying much attention to the press, and to be honest who can blame them ?  As an example - Lawrenson on radio 1 this morning saying Green should be dropped in case he drops a clanger against Algeria and "destroys his career", what a clown !Greens'' attitude has been entirely right - held his hands up, said sorry to his team-mates, spoke to the press afterwards and said he''s sorry, but it''s happened, and he''s going to get on with the rest of the tournament.  Unfortunately, nobody in the press seems to have heard him.

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[quote user="Beauseant"]

[quote user="7rew"]Beau, the best one I found was in a BBC Blog: The choice to pick king was wrong because of his injury problems. Followed almost immediately by: The defence of Carragher/Terry was too slow. So either, we use the fit ones and have a slow defence or it was right to pick King and hope he doesn''t get injured. On the original subject I would alter the question to why would any sane footballer play for England while not playing for ManU/Chelsea/Liverpool/Arsenal. Playing for one of these apparently grants immunity from tabloid prosecution (at least for playing badly) which necessarily means that the others get caned. Look at the criticism of Heskey and Wright-Phillips for their misses and compare to the notices given to the totally absent Lampard and Rooney.[/quote]

 

Being a journalist means never having to say you''re sorry! You are judge, jury and executioner, but you can''t criticise the Lampards and Rooneys of this world because your paper might miss out on that next exclusive interview. Much better to hammer the players who don''t chose to live their lives for public consumption and therefore have no way of hitting back.

[/quote]Lol, I have joined the same facebook group you joined earlier mate, not many of us in it , are there?

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[quote user="morty"][quote user="Beauseant"]

[quote user="7rew"]Beau, the best one I found was in a BBC Blog: The choice to pick king was wrong because of his injury problems. Followed almost immediately by: The defence of Carragher/Terry was too slow. So either, we use the fit ones and have a slow defence or it was right to pick King and hope he doesn''t get injured. On the original subject I would alter the question to why would any sane footballer play for England while not playing for ManU/Chelsea/Liverpool/Arsenal. Playing for one of these apparently grants immunity from tabloid prosecution (at least for playing badly) which necessarily means that the others get caned. Look at the criticism of Heskey and Wright-Phillips for their misses and compare to the notices given to the totally absent Lampard and Rooney.[/quote]

 

Being a journalist means never having to say you''re sorry! You are judge, jury and executioner, but you can''t criticise the Lampards and Rooneys of this world because your paper might miss out on that next exclusive interview. Much better to hammer the players who don''t chose to live their lives for public consumption and therefore have no way of hitting back.

[/quote]

Lol, I have joined the same facebook group you joined earlier mate, not many of us in it , are there?
[/quote]

 

Sadly no![:D]

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[quote user="Evil Monkey"]I love the irony of someone coming on here, having a long, whiney rant about someone else''s opinion, then ending it with ''give it a rest with the negative bull****''.  You don''t have to read it sunshine, although by the looks of it I don''t think you did anyway.  Usually if you''re commenting on something then it helps to have some idea of the subject at hand, and you quite clearly haven''t been paying any attention to the media frenzy both in the lead-up to and following England''s first World Cup game.  In case you''ve missed it, Robert Green - ex-Norwich City player at whom many of us used to chant ''England''s Number 1'', someone many of us may have met, and an all-round affable chap - has been front page news with disparaging headlines and much discussion from pundits and public mongoloids about his future.[/quote]No monkey you patronizing sod,  I think it''s you who is fully missing the point here and you''re quite clearly failing to put things into context, I read mister chops original post but did you read mine properly? I fully understand what Chops was getting at in his post and I''m merely answering the question of the subject in hand.A few people on here have become too emotionally attached to Rob Green and are taking his national criticism to heart, when clearly you wouldn''t have reacted in such a way if it was any of the other England players in Rob Greens shoes, but because Rob Green is an Ex Norwich City player some people are too quick to jump at Greeno''s defence and pose daft question about whether playing for England is really worth it? Of course it is, for reasons I have already mentioned. Rightly or wrongly Rob Green was always going to get slaughtered by the press the second he made that howler which cost England dear, every England player must know that they run that risk every time they put on an England shirt, it''s part and parcel. Green is a tough cookie, he''ll just continue with the task in hand and wont let it phase him. It will be blown over sooner than you think, it''s hardly killed his career as some people seem to be suggesting, just a rough patch.

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[quote] Rightly or wrongly Rob Green was always going to get slaughtered by the

press the second he made that howler which cost England dear, every

England player must know that they run that risk every time they put on

an England shirt, it''s part and parcel.[/quote]Looks to me like you''ve swallowed the presses'' party line whole.  Maybe you even wrote it ?I think most of us are just fatigued by the ridiculous hype which the press apply to the England team, setting them up to knock them down.  If it had been Johnson, or Carragher, I think you would have similar responses.

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Quoting Roosevelt: It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.

Thats why I hate the UK Media and dont support Englands football team good luck Greeno

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[quote user="blahblahblah"][quote] Rightly or wrongly Rob Green was always going to get slaughtered by the

press the second he made that howler which cost England dear, every

England player must know that they run that risk every time they put on

an England shirt, it''s part and parcel.[/quote]Looks to me like you''ve swallowed the presses'' party line whole.  Maybe you even wrote it ?I think most of us are just fatigued by the ridiculous hype which the press apply to the England team, setting them up to knock them down.  If it had been Johnson, or Carragher, I think you would have similar responses.[/quote]Now your just being completely blinkered with your response, Green''s mistake on Saturday was an absolute howler and did cost England dear, you can''t deny that, I would say the same thing if it happened to a Norwich player for Norwich City. It''s not a case of me agreeing with the media''s stance on building a team up with hype so they can knock it them down, I just accept that''s the way they operate and probably always will, it''s part and parcel of being a top footballer, the players know this and still choose to represent their country for obvious reasons.

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It wasn''t his finest hour, but there were other, less obvious incidents where we could have won the game and failed to.  Heskey and SWP both shot straight at the keeper when players of their class should be able to put the ball past the keeper.  You''re right in that Green will suck it up and just get on with it, and in my opinion he is right to get on with it - it is just a shame that the scapegoat mentality of the press means that supporters won''t think the same way.

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[quote user="Heresyourfathersgun"]

Presuming you''re good enough to play:

Money

Girls

Kudos

Big House

Nice Car

are all reasons to play for England. Poor old Greeno and numerous turnips down the years have all suffered dreadfully from being picked and failing to perform for England. They all get over it eventually. Gareth Southgate & Chris Waddle have carved lucrative careers out of bringing shame on our footballing nation.

I''d glady make a fool of myself in the name of England for 1% of what they get. Expect to seen Green on Question of Sport laughing about it sometime soon.

[/quote]

your not paid to play, and girls are after the money, the money pays for the house and car so MC has made a great point!

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Nana England players do get a match fee but as their clubs already make them so wealthy they donate them all to charities. Otehrwise your right though they don''t play for England for the money only the fame.

Davo

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[quote user="blahblahblah"]It wasn''t his finest hour, but there were other, less obvious incidents where we could have won the game and failed to.  Heskey and SWP both shot straight at the keeper when players of their class should be able to put the ball past the keeper.  You''re right in that Green will suck it up and just get on with it, and in my opinion he is right to get on with it - it is just a shame that the scapegoat mentality of the press means that supporters won''t think the same way.
[/quote]

Agreed [Y] Heskey and SWP were just as much to blame with their misses - I actually thought that Heskey did very well in his role but we would all have been fuming even at Cureton for shooting straight at the keeper the way he did. If he hadn''t we would have snatched all 3 points but all of the attention has been on Green for losing us the two points - hardly any mention of Heskey''s or SWP''s misses in the gutter press even though they cost ''England ''just as dear'' ... ergo WC I agree with BBB that you are sucking up the press line to an extent - and I don''t really think it''s surprising that people on an NCFC message board are sticking up for him - do you??! [*-)] 

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