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Heskey for Holt - would you swap?

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[quote user="Ncfc"]Afraid next season people will see why Grant Holt has spent nearly his whole career at League1 and 2 level ,honestly any striker would have scored plenty playing in that Norwich side last season even Cureton . Whole different ball game in the Championship a massive jump in class and one i cannot see Holt being up to.[/quote]??? Cureton was in that Norwich side last season, and was then quickly discarded, loaned out...forgotten about..left to rot...etc

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its amazing how many people I know who have played the game at a decent level rate Heskey, and how many friends who just call themselves fans with what is obviously "average" football knowledge who obviously read the red tops and listen to the nazi station Talk sport don''t rate Heskey at all. Funny that.

How many different England managers have picked/played Heskey over the last 3 decades again? 60 caps? mmm? they all must be wrong and you lot are right. I think you all should apply for the job once Capello jumps/gets pushed.

I wont even go into why Heskey is in the team/squad as I''m frankly bored of explaining it. If you think that Heskey is the reason why england are playing so badly you need to open your eyes a bit wider...he has actually been one of our better players. Rooney has been awful...shall we all get on his back? would you swap Rooney for Holt next season - discuss? hahahahaha. Numbnuts!

Heskey over Holt anyday, but as thats never going to happen i''ll continue to cheer Holt on as he''s a great player for NCFC (and was my vote for PoTS - as i could remember the beginning of the season too and not the last 3 months) good ol me. [;)]

 

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Well, it''s surely pretty obvious that you don''t spend virtually your entire career playing at the highest level (including playing for a club of Liverpool''s stature) and many games and tournaments at international level without having something about you.  If he was that crap he''d have been found out years ago and would end up playing at some dead end League One club.

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Heskey is a striker ...

a strikers job is to score goals , heskey does not .

i dont think it is people being ignorant .

ask yourself one question ...is he any where near as good as rooney .

i think the answer is no , when Defoe came on he gave us another dimension .

midfielders such as Lampard and Gerrard should do the holding up play ,and bringing rooney into the game .

Heskey lost the ball nearly every-time he had it .

I can not remember Heskey having a shot on target friday night , unless he was aiming for the bird that sat on the goal net most of the game .

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well proof is in the pudding really .

play a striker who can has not a very good record at scoring goals ....he wont .

hence the reason we have scored 1 goal in 2 games.

logic prevails you can not rely on Rooney for the whole competition .

lets put it this way ... the boss has not got it right so far in this competition has he..?

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[quote user="singing canary"]Heskey is a striker ... a strikers job is to score goals , heskey does not . i dont think it is people being ignorant . ask yourself one question ...is he any where near as good as rooney . i think the answer is no , when Defoe came on he gave us another dimension . midfielders such as Lampard and Gerrard should do the holding up play ,and bringing rooney into the game . Heskey lost the ball nearly every-time he had it . I can not remember Heskey having a shot on target friday night , unless he was aiming for the bird that sat on the goal net most of the game .[/quote]

If your playing 4-4-2 you are really looking at a target man to hold the ball up and for a midfielder to be making a run for him to play it into or Rooney.

I thought Heskey did ok, he worked bloody hard and chased after the ball when he lost it and made chances out of nothing situations by hassling defenders.

Its unfair to compare Rooney to Heskey when there is the best part of ten years between them. Heskey had the same buzz about him as Rooney when he was younger - remember O''Neil bringing him through at Leicester?

None of the players played well and if anything Lennon, Lampard and Barry struggled greatly in terms of passing and movement when we had the ball more than anything else. I think we must have had all of 4/5 lame shots on goal.

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many friends who just call themselves fans with what is obviously "average" football knowledge who obviously read the red tops and listen to the nazi station Talk sport don''t rate Heskey at all. Funny that.

Ridiculous assumption....Mouriniho was never a player, yet hes done ok.

As for callingtalkSPORT a nazi station..baffling!!!

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[quote user="singing canary"]Heskey is a striker ... a strikers job is to score goals , heskey does not .  .[/quote]

I think you have to say, will heskey and rooney combined score more than defoe and rooney combined, On the occasions that Iv seen Rooney and Defoe on the pitch together ive been less than impressed, Heskey CAN hold the ball up, and thats the job he does for us, no, hea not perticularly great (nor is Crouch) but he is one of if not the best we have at that role, its just a case of who you prefere

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Fu@king amazing post.A man who can''t even get a game for villa is first choice for england.He has never ever scored many goals,yet some of you numb nuts would swap him for holt.I will bet anyone of you holt will be our top scorer next season .And anyone who would swap him for heskey can kiss my arse

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[quote user="Graham Humphrey"]Well, it''s surely pretty obvious that you don''t spend virtually your entire career playing at the highest level (including playing for a club of Liverpool''s stature) and many games and tournaments at international level without having something about you.  If he was that crap he''d have been found out years ago and would end up playing at some dead end League One club.
[/quote]Or on the subs bench for villa

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[quote user="spencer 1970"]

its amazing how many people I know who have played the game at a decent level rate Heskey, and how many friends who just call themselves fans with what is obviously "average" football knowledge who obviously read the red tops and listen to the nazi station Talk sport don''t rate Heskey at all. Funny that.

How many different England managers have picked/played Heskey over the last 3 decades again? 60 caps? mmm? they all must be wrong and you lot are right. I think you all should apply for the job once Capello jumps/gets pushed.

I wont even go into why Heskey is in the team/squad as I''m frankly bored of explaining it. If you think that Heskey is the reason why england are playing so badly you need to open your eyes a bit wider...he has actually been one of our better players. Rooney has been awful...shall we all get on his back? would you swap Rooney for Holt next season - discuss? hahahahaha. Numbnuts!

Heskey over Holt anyday, but as thats never going to happen i''ll continue to cheer Holt on as he''s a great player for NCFC (and was my vote for PoTS - as i could remember the beginning of the season too and not the last 3 months) good ol me. [;)]

 

[/quote]

Agree 100%

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[quote user="lobstercatcher2"][quote user="Graham Humphrey"]Well, it''s surely pretty obvious that you don''t spend virtually your entire career playing at the highest level (including playing for a club of Liverpool''s stature) and many games and tournaments at international level without having something about you.  If he was that crap he''d have been found out years ago and would end up playing at some dead end League One club.
[/quote]Or on the subs bench for villa[/quote]

To be fair, i dont think any of our first 11 would get on Villa''s sub''s bench regularly. Doesnt mean i think he should be starting for england though. If someone said to me we were bringing Heskey in to play championship football i would be chuffed, the only advantage i can see in Holt over Heskey is age, i do think Holt has been great for us though.

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Obviously Heskey has played at the top level all his career and Holt has played in the lower leagues. However one thing I will say for Holt is that when we have possession he desperate to get into the box and bag a goal. Whereas Heskey seems content with winning the ball back and trotting slowly upfield. Who is the better footballer? Heskey without question. Who is the bigger goal threat? Even though I will get slaughtered for saying it Grant Holt. For the simple reason he gets himself into scoring positions inside the opposition penalty area. Something Heskey seldom does.

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I am not too ignorant to see what some people see in Heskey.  I don''t agree with it, and I don''t agree with his England selection, but I can see why some may value him.

First and foremost Heskey is a striker/forward, therefore, surely a proportion of his game (as with all strikers) SHOULD be scoing goals?  There are different types of striker/forward, the common ground between them must be scroing goals to some extent.

Rooney has lots of facets to his game, yet still scores 30 goals a season, Bent is a bit of a goal poacher, yet in a poor Sunderland side scored 20 odd goals.  I can recognise that big/tall target men often don''t score as many as your Rooney''s or Bent''s, yet for an England international you would still expect to see a return of 15 to 20 and not just 3!  Also going against what I am actually saying myself is Grant Holt, yes I recognise it was in League One, but he scored 30 goals and still did all/most of the ''Heskey'' things if not more - which shows it is possible to do both.  You can ony play against what''s infront of you and you still need to be able to tuck the ball away, the goals aren''t smaller in the Premiership.

I don''t think Heskey would score anywhere near 20 goals in the Championship, the defenders in the Championship aren''t mugs, look at Shola Ameobi, he hardly set the Championship alight did he?  No matter what level you play at, you still need the goal scoring instinct, Heskey just doesn''t have it.

Ask youself one thing, if Heskey is so great and forges a remarkable partnership when he plays with Rooney, why hasn''t one of the greatest/most successful managers of recent times in England tried to sign him?  I think in there lies your answer.

 

 

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[quote user="Brendo "][quote user="singing canary"]

and missed a header any decent forward would put in the back of the net[/quote]You''re not serious? [|-)]That was too far above him, Peter may have got it, but anyone else wouldn''t have. [/quote]

Crouch cant jump.... I''d take Heskey in a heartbeat over Holt, daft question.

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An international striker with a long pedigree of playing at the top level or a guy who has banged in a shed load of goals in one season in League 1. Now how would anyone other than a City fan answer that one?

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[quote user="Arthur Whittle"]many friends who just call themselves fans with what is obviously "average" football knowledge who obviously read the red tops and listen to the nazi station Talk sport don''t rate Heskey at all. Funny that.

Ridiculous assumption....Mouriniho was never a player, yet hes done ok.

As for callingtalkSPORT a nazi station..baffling!!![/quote]

Sorry AW you''ve

missed me there fella. I usually like what you''ve

got to say, even if i don’t agree so I wont start a war of words...but I’ve got

to put the record straight.

I cant remember saying that poor professional players

don’t make world class managers (Wegner too)...you put words in my mouth there amigo. (and

BTW Mourihno WAS a professional player in the Portuguese league, just not a

very good one, so poor infact he never started a game). I, like a lot of my

pals only played semi-pro which is massively behind anyone fully pro but we are

all pretty much unified in what heskey can bring to the table, and my other

mates that think that by sticking a copy of the sun in their back pockets and

listen to Der Talken sporten they can form a real opinion on how the game

should be played...that were all clueless as players - it shows on their footy

knowledge...i can see the similarities with a lot of the people on this forum.

Although i rate Heskey as i can see his merits (agreed goals scoring isn’t one

of them ,but don’t we have Rooney/Lamps/Stevie G in the team bombing on? and he

simply hold it up/lays it off like NO ONE else in England can do)...i still actually don’t

think he should play if J.Cole is fit. I would play 4/2/3/1 (I''ve been saying this for months) with Rooney up

front on his tod and Lamps, Stevie and Cole behind him, and THEN switch it to

4/4/2 if we got stifled. Someone like Lennon (or Walcott ahem! SWP? dont make me laugh!)  would rip a

team apart in the last 20mins in the conditions of this world cup...and Heskey

or Crouch could come on once the winger/side striker dynamic is working.

nazi jibe = check who owns the station...I can smell it as soon as I hear it. (KK, so you know RM aint far behind).

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[quote user="Good Touch For A Big Man"]Obviously Heskey has played at the top level all his career and Holt has played in the lower leagues. However one thing I will say for Holt is that when we have possession he desperate to get into the box and bag a goal. Whereas Heskey seems content with winning the ball back and trotting slowly upfield. Who is the better footballer? Heskey without question. Who is the bigger goal threat? Even though I will get slaughtered for saying it Grant Holt. For the simple reason he gets himself into scoring positions inside the opposition penalty area. Something Heskey seldom does.[/quote]

Agree.  Heskeys all-round play would be a cut above in the Champs but i`d still back Holt to score more, so it`s nowhere near as clear-cut as some would have you believe.  Some of the smaller nations at the world cup have shown that there isn`t a vast gulf between players from Inter/Barca/Chelsea and players who`ve always played at lower levels.  Fallon for N.Zealand more than held his own against the current world champions defence and the young W.Brom lad who came on held the ball up a la Heskey AND nearly scored a wonder-goal which Heskey could never do.

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While there have been some good arguements put across, maybe if we ask this question to people who dont support Norwich and we would get some different answers...For me Holt only has age on his side, in terms of quality theres a reason that in his prime (27-28) he was playing in league two and league one. I really hope he has a great season in the championship, but its far from a given.Fun discussion though.

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I would rather see Holt in an England shirt than Heskey, yeah Heskey would have a better first touch but HE CAN''T SCORE.

I remember the days when he played on the left wing for England (LOL) I would seriously rather have seen Huckerby out there.

England focus too much on playing the big names and not building a team.

Capello wants a big target man that can score, Ashton obviously would have been perfect but Heskey can''t fulfil the role, instead of focusing on big names why not look to lower leagues?

Having a good team is better than sticking a load of big names together, Algeria played as a good team and our so called big name players could break them down? Why? Because half of them play out of position? Gerrard and Lampard are contantly played out of position.

Playing Gerrard on the left is a waste of a great player, you might as well not play him and replace him for someone who is more comfortable out there, but England managers never have the guts to drop the big names so instead they just put them in any old position.

Holt or Heskey? Holt every time because he is not scared of shooting and he has strikers instinct.

Heskey is not a striker. Heskey would not score 30 goals in league one. The biggest problem with Heskey is his inability to get into dangerous goal scoring positions, why doesnt he score from corners? Because he is clueless! Holt would score from corners.

Who would you choose to take a penalty? HOLT everytime!

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[quote user="Wardogz"]

Having a good team is better than sticking a load of big names together, Algeria played as a good team and our so called big name players could break them down? ![/quote]

Sorry i meant couldn''t break them down

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Incredible to think some people rate a slow lump of a forward who was untill last season playing for League 2 Shrewsbury to be better than a player whos career has seen him play for the likes of Liverpool , Villa and England .

Take the green tinted specs off people Holt will be way out of his depth in the Championship and will be lucky to net 10 next season .

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[quote user="Freebie City F.C."]Take the green tinted specs off people...[/quote]Take the blue tinted specs off then you''d realise Holt is better than any striker you have............ 

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Freebie is a town fan with 1,800+ posts? Wow that is sad, go back to your own board freebie!

I think Holt is a better goalscorer than Heskey. Sure heskey will have a better first touch and better awareness but those things alone do not make you a good striker. Heskey lacks any kind of clinical finishing in front of goal, he can''t even read the game to get himself in regular goal scoring positions.

Heskey is the one of the worst strikers I have ever seen. And let''s be honest most prem clubs have dropped him like a bad habit.

England managers seem to like him but then the last two England managers have been a joke and the current one looks set to drop him. (fingers crossed!)

Now to confuse you all, I don''t think Holt is premiership quality, but I do think he is a better goal scorer than Heskey. Holt has what I like to call strikers instinct, he gets him self in dangerous positions, he can read the game, Heskey can''t do that.

Heskey is the annoying kind of striker that is too scared to take a penalty in the first 5 of a penalty shoot out.

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