A very simple poll....

[Resident Leeds Fan Jonny! 0]

I''m pretty sure if the team had a few Norwich players in you''d think twice before calling them wankers.England to win the world cup every time. It''s pretty inevitable that Leeds will climb back in to the premiership once again, it''s just a matter of time. But it''s not inevitable that England will win the world cup in my life time. For the country that invented the game to win the world cup and shut all those doubters and critics up would be a dream. Also I''d love to see the Blatter and Platinis face''s....god that would be nice.Again, and I''ve said this somewhere before, it''s just pathetic to criticise a whole country on a few hooligans and erm...dodgy made flags??? hmmBut if you want to live in your ''high and mighty'' bubble then so be it. If you somehow believe that your better than all other football fans by not supporting your national team, the country that gave football to the world, then ok that''s your prerogative. In some ways these people are refuse to get behind the national team sound like those who come to this country then openly criticise it. Yet they''d happily work, eat and live here.Get a grip, there are Norwich fans who are losers just like there are England fan who are the very same. Would you stop supporting Norwich because all of a sudden you''ve realised there''s a few bad eggs knocking about??? Unlikely.

[Jacko 0]

Resident Leeds Fan Jonny:

Interesting post I would just take issue with a couple of points:

1. Leeds will probably get promoted to Premier League in your lifetime but I wouldn''t say it is inevitable. Just ask Wolves fans who despite Jack Hayward''s millions, sizeable support, decent ground and good history were out of the top flight for over 30 years. Leeds will be getting around 25,000-30,000 next year I would guess but the way the modern game is that merely puts you on a par with many other clubs. The championship has increasingly become Premiership Mk II in that respect. With the parachute payment money as well making the Premiership an increasingly closed shop I think you are underestimating the size of the task which faces everyone who wishes to get promoted.

2. To be fair I don''t think there are many pinkun posters on here who want to see England perform badly. We will all be glued to our TVs cheering England on. I am not interested in the players personal lives. They are representing England in their capacity as footballers and therefore they have my unconditional support. Just in the same way that people who put on a Norwich shirt represent the city I am proud to live in. If Connor Wickham (Very promising Ipswich player) fired England to victory in 2018 I would be absolutely delighted.

However whilst I am proud to be English I have a stronger sense of regional identity. I have spent the vast majority of my life in Norwich and I see the lift it gives my friends, family and the local community when the team are performing. If Norwich were to get promoted that would last for a whole season and possibly more if we remained in the Premiership for a couple of years (hypothetical territory I know). I like others on here invest a lot of time, money and emotion following City across the country so the chance to see us play the big boys again after trekking around some of the outposts would be too good to turn down.

But hey just my opinion. Nice to get a good debate going I think.

[Mook 0]

I think another interesting point is this - there are many people that don''t give a crap about England on this thread. BUT I will guarantee that those people will be the first to complain when we go out on penalties in the quarter finals."bla bla typical England, they don''t give a stuff, they''ve got no guts etc etc"I personally think if you don''t support the team, then what the hell right do you have to criticise the team? You may feel let down in the past, but it''s not like they''re trying to lose is it? We''re probably around the eighth best team in the world. That''s actually pretty good. So we''re likely to make Quarter Finals, anything beyond that will be a bonus. We have no divine right to get any further.It reminds me of all the criticism Tim Henman used to get for "failing". How many other players have won Grand Slams? Not many. How many English players have we have been in the top 10 in the world over the last 25 years? One. Tim Henman. So we waited for 25 years to get a good tennis player, then write him off as a national joke and a failure because he only made the semi-finals of Wimbledon and Roland Garros. Annoying.

[Jacko 0]

Thats a great point. You shouldn''t criticise the people who are there. We should be looking instead at why we don''t produce better players in all sport. I was playing football with some mates yesterday afternoon on a school pitch. About an hour into our the game, a PE lesson promptly came onto the pitch so we of course moved on as we shouldn''t really have been there. However out of curiosity we watched about 5 minutes of the session just to see exactly what the kids got taught. There was unfortunately only 1 for around 60 boys. They were set up into 3 games on 11 a side width ways across the pitch.

Naturally every game descended into absolute choas because they were basically unsupervised. There was no idea of positions (surprising given that these kids must have been about year 7 / year 8) so they were just gathering around the ball hacking at it and while the bigger more disruptive kids were tripping people up and rugby tackling others etc. I appreciate the financial and time contraints regarding coaching, that some kids are not interested and have to be effectively baby sat but it seems tragic that this might be the only exposure some children get to what is an absolutely wonderful game. It also little wonder that they we produce very few players with high technical ability.

[Mutley 74]

2

[First Jedi 0]

England every time - Norwich are rubbish!

:)

(sorry - it''s just asking this question on here, means very few people are going to say England whatever they think!)

[GenerationA47 751]

Good points, Mook.

In many cases (though I don''t share it) the lack of support for England compared to for our club must stem from an ingrained and bienially reinforced bitterness about the recurring disappointments - feels like a Henman-like ''betrayal'', so downgrade your support to protect yourself. That''s maybe a clue to why the criticism from such folk can be so harsh...

The lack of identification with the players and background set-up must play a big part too.However much people may complain about NCFC''s current owners, supporters keep flocking as there is a continuity of tradition and an identification with our visible shrine nestling by our river - representing us.

Having said that, I also have friends and acquaintances who will only support Norwich when we''re doing well, for the same reason - the attitude "if the team doesn''t make the effort, why should I...?". (In my view, this is a mistake, as it confuses the value of the club as a permanent institution and icon with the current team''s/board''s abilities.)

But in general by contrast, the FA leadership shows itself again and again to be a negative influence on the national sport in the pure, pyramid sense - although a super champion for Premier League businesses, a term which can capture the players, agents, clubs, broadcasters, advertisers, sponsors and pub chains.

The players may be representing the country - which is the only reason I support them, not because I think we''re better than other lands - but they simultaneously appear to be representing the worst side of football and are not personally likable. (In fact, if so minded, you could argue they represent capitalist olde England down to a T!) I''d personally make an exception to this for one or two genuine characters in the national team.

Resident Leeds Fan makes some fair points and is right to say the lukewarm-at-best-to-England attitude would be different if one or two of our players were involved. However, if that were true then by definition we''d be a different type of club than we are currently - either Premiership moneyspinners or Premiership gamblers.

(And I''ve no doubt we have the potential to become the latter once/if we finally regain the promised land, though probably not under this club regime - and human nature says that most of our fans would embrace the role, in the name of success. After all, we as a club helped create the Premiership ''monster'' in the first place...)

To this extent I do sympathise with the England nay-sayers, though I myself would take the World Cup over promotion this season because I know how happy I''d be; plus with decent club management, you should get a fair crack at promotion every season.

[Shaun Tilly Lace 0]

Option 1 please.

Come On, ENGLAND!

[Davo 0]

[quote user="Good Touch For A Big Man"] Naturally every game descended into absolute choas because they were basically unsupervised. There was no idea of positions (surprising given that these kids must have been about year 7 / year 8) so they were just gathering around the ball hacking at it and while the bigger more disruptive kids were tripping people up and rugby tackling others etc. I appreciate the financial and time contraints regarding coaching, that some kids are not interested and have to be effectively baby sat but it seems tragic that this might be the only exposure some children get to what is an absolutely wonderful game. It also little wonder that they we produce very few players with high technical ability. [/quote]

Now I find this an interesting point. The main problem I see here is you have some kids playing who just wouldn''t be interested in the game but being forced to play. Hence the fouling and rugby tackles.On the other hand taking Brazil as an example a lot of the kids over there learn to play in the slums. There is no coaching here or much facilities or equipment but they do produce some of the most technically gifted players around.

The key difference I see between the two is not so much the lack of coaching but the desire to play the game. I remember when I was at school and we h ad to play football you would find the game almost ruined by people who didn''t want to play. Some of these people were football fans but had no will to play the game unless it was on a computer. It got to the stage from about 12 onwards that unless I was playing for my club or in the park after school I wouldn''t play footbal in PE unless I had to, if tehre was the option of rugby or hockey instead I would play those and let the people who went to football because it was the easier option ruin it for others.

I guess my point is that unless your playing football as a kid with others who actually want to play then you won''t get any coaching and you won''t really improve. PE in this day and age is just about getting kids to run around for an hour or so rather than teaching them how to perform in sports and improve themselves.

 

Davo

[Boot 0]

1

[SwindonCanary 455]

England for me;- It would lift the whole country from this doom & gloom crisis.

Norwich to the Premiership:- No thanks, There''s nothing in it for the fans. football should be played 3pm Saturday, I do not wish to take a day off work just to see us hammered away to the likes of Man USA. on a Monday night.

Given the choice Lets be world Champions next month.