Connor Wickham's valuation...

[Norfolk Mustard 94]

(Article from Sky Sports News): Ipswich Town are adamant teenage striker Connor Wickham will not be leaving Portman Road for a Premier League club this summer.

Wickham is one of the brightest prospects outside the top flight and scored six goals in 29 appearances in all competitions last season

...

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I realise there is more to a player''s game than simply scoring goals; but six in 29! That''s a ratio of 1 in 5. Hardly prolific for a striker is it?

Nonetheless some parts of the media claim he''s valued at millions and attracting attention from Premiership teams.

Whatever does this make Chris Martin - a proven 1 in 3 player worth I wonder?

(37 goals in 108 games; Luton & Norwich - source Soccerbase)

[Canary_on_the Trent 0]

The biggest striking prospect in the country has to be worth a fair bit surely. Obviously lots of hot prospects fall by the wayside but Wickham has it all and he''s only just 17, big, strong, quick, great finisher and a footballing brain. Why should Ipswich sell him cheaply if they believe he''s going to go on to play at the very top level?

[Jacko 0]

The reason for the valuation is that the guy only turned 17 in March. So he has vast potential. I have heard a lot of people who reckon he could make right to the top. Also it is worth taking these links with a pinch of salt. Chris Martin at 18 was linked the media to Manchester United after his goalscoring run in 2006/7 for us and the England U19s

[When Saturday Comes 0]

I think this is just a bit of jealousy really - let''s just accept that Ipswich have a VERY good player on their hands. I reckon in 4 years time we''ll all be supporting him at the World Cup. He is that good, and good luck to him. Seems like he has a good head on his shoulders.

[LocalDerbys 0]

1) Connor recently turned 17, Martin is 21.2) Connor is playing in the championship, Martin has been playing in league 1.3) You have obviously never seen him play.4) Majority of those appearances are from the bench.5) Norwich have been scoring an abundance of goals, Ipswich couldn''t score for sh*t last term.

He is going to be one hell of a player when he grows up, wouldn''t mind betting he''s in the 23 for the World Cup 2014. He''ll probably bang in 10/15 goals next year ;)

[Norfolk Mustard 94]

[quote user="Canary_on_the Trent"]The biggest striking prospect in the country has to be worth a fair bit surely. Obviously lots of hot prospects fall by the wayside but Wickham has it all and he''s only just 17, big, strong, quick, great finisher and a footballing brain. Why should Ipswich sell him cheaply if they believe he''s going to go on to play at the very top level?[/quote]

I''m making the observation that strikers need to score; and 1 in 5 is nothing remarkable. We have better than that in Chris Martin...

Wickham may go on to be world class, but right now he seems to be rated incredibly highly - without the end product called goals!

I doubt Robbie Fowler, Michael Owen, Wayne Rooney etc commenced their careers with stats as low as that?

[Jacko 0]

[quote user="When Saturday Comes"]I think this is just a bit of jealousy really - let''s just accept that Ipswich have a VERY good player on their hands.

I reckon in 4 years time we''ll all be supporting him at the World Cup. He is that good, and good luck to him. Seems like he has a good head on his shoulders.
[/quote]

Thats what I have been told by my friend who supports the binners. That a lot of the top coaches in England regard him as being a potential partner for Rooney at the next world cup. To be playing regular first team football at 16 you have to be pretty special. Particularly as he has kept people like Priskin out of the team who did pretty well at Watford.  

[Crafty Canary 495]

He is clearly an exciting prospect and given the money paid for Walcott and Ramsay when they were about his age then the Scum''s valuation of £10M is probably not outrageously wide of the mark given the money swilling around in the Premiership. The Scum have the Army to thank for Wickham as his dad was transferred from Aldershot to Colchester Garrison and that''s how he came to join the blue filfth. He might otherwise be a Reading player for instance. Anyway good luck to the lad (except in the derbies when I hope he makes a complete **** of himself) and I wonder how long before he''s in a big club''s squad.

[Canary_on_the Trent 0]

[quote user="Norfolk Mustard"][quote user="Canary_on_the Trent"]The biggest striking prospect in the country has to be worth a fair bit surely. Obviously lots of hot prospects fall by the wayside but Wickham has it all and he''s only just 17, big, strong, quick, great finisher and a footballing brain. Why should Ipswich sell him cheaply if they believe he''s going to go on to play at the very top level?[/quote]

I''m making the observation that strikers need to score; and 1 in 5 is nothing remarkable. We have better than that in Chris Martin...

Wickham may go on to be world class, but right now he seems to be rated incredibly highly - without the end product called goals!

I doubt Robbie Fowler, Michael Owen, Wayne Rooney etc commenced their careers with stats as low as that?[/quote]Of those only Rooney was playing regular first team football at 16

2002–03

33games

6 goals.

[Jacko 0]

[quote user="Norfolk Mustard"][quote user="Canary_on_the Trent"]The biggest striking prospect in the country has to be worth a fair bit surely. Obviously lots of hot prospects fall by the wayside but Wickham has it all and he''s only just 17, big, strong, quick, great finisher and a footballing brain. Why should Ipswich sell him cheaply if they believe he''s going to go on to play at the very top level?
[/quote] I''m making the observation that strikers need to score; and 1 in 5 is nothing remarkable. We have better than that in Chris Martin... Wickham may go on to be world class, but right now he seems to be rated incredibly highly - without the end product called goals! I doubt Robbie Fowler, Michael Owen, Wayne Rooney etc commenced their careers with stats as low as that?[/quote]

Wayne Rooney

2002/3 Season: 33 appearances 6 goals (Rooney was 17 at the start of this season, remember Wickham was 16 at the start of this season)

2003/4 Season: 34 appearances 10 goals

Admittedly he was playing in the Premiership when he did this but the argument still stands. When he was a similiar age as Wickham he didn''t exactly have the best goalscoring record. But we all saw the incredible talent with goals like the one against Arsenal.

[LocalDerbys 0]

[quote user="Norfolk Mustard"][quote user="Canary_on_the Trent"]The biggest striking prospect in the country has to be worth a fair bit surely. Obviously lots of hot prospects fall by the wayside but Wickham has it all and he''s only just 17, big, strong, quick, great finisher and a footballing brain. Why should Ipswich sell him cheaply if they believe he''s going to go on to play at the very top level?[/quote]

I''m making the observation that strikers need to score; and 1 in 5 is nothing remarkable. We have better than that in Chris Martin...

Wickham may go on to be world class, but right now he seems to be rated incredibly highly - without the end product called goals!

I doubt Robbie Fowler, Michael Owen, Wayne Rooney etc commenced their careers with stats as low as that?[/quote]Mate, to sum up, it''s a totally different league and Martin has 4 more years of experience. When Wickham is 20+ I have a feeling he won''t be playing in League 1.

[Norfolk Mustard 94]

[quote user="When Saturday Comes"]I think this is just a bit of jealousy really - let''s just accept that Ipswich have a VERY good player on their hands. I reckon in 4 years time we''ll all be supporting him at the World Cup. He is that good, and good luck to him. Seems like he has a good head on his shoulders. [/quote]

Guys - no jealousy whatsoever from me - I love watching football of all types. I coach kids, am Vice Chair of my local club, Child Welfare Officer etc too - so I''m well involved and appreciate the game.

If Wickham plays for England I''ll be delighted. If he score a hat trick against Norwich next season I''ll gracefully ackowledge his achievement.

I haven''t seen him play; the point I was making is his stats aren''t brilliant. If he''s come off the bench maybe that''s different, but doesn''t that beg the question why if he''s supposed to be so good?

Rooney was let loose to start and complete 90 minute Premiership games at 16 - David Moyes showed there''s no need to hold back major talent if they''re strong enough.

[Canary_on_the Trent 0]

"he''s come off the bench maybe that''s different, but doesn''t that beg the question why if he''s supposed to be so good?" He was 16 for christ sake.Wayne Rooney barely started any games at the age of 16, Wickham didn''t

start too often at the start of the season but since easter has started most games and scored a fair few goals in just a handful of

starts.

[Legend Iwan 30]

As much as I hate it, due to him being one of them, he has the potential to be world class.

And potential is what drives up prices, English players especially.

[Jacko 0]

[quote user="Canary_on_the Trent"]"he''s come off the bench maybe that''s different, but doesn''t that beg the question why if he''s supposed to be so good?" He was 16 for christ sake.

Wayne Rooney barely started any games at the age of 16, Wickham didn''t start too often at the start of the season but since easter has started most games and scored a fair few goals in just a handful of starts.
[/quote]

You can''t keep starting a 16 year old week after week in the championship. He is still growing and developing physically. Even Rooney wasn''t strong enough to compete against Premiership defenders at that age so was dipped in and out. His cameo against Arsenal came from the bench. Moyes managed him correctly in that respect. Looking at Norwich I think Lambert was clearly worried about the workload he was placing on Korey Smith at 18 because is obviously still developing as well.

[CanaryOne 0]

[quote user="LocalDerbys"]1) Connor recently turned 17, Martin is 21.2) Connor is playing in the championship, Martin has been playing in league 1.3) You have obviously never seen him play.4) Majority of those appearances are from the bench.5) Norwich have been scoring an abundance of goals, Ipswich couldn''t score for sh*t last term.

He is going to be one hell of a player when he grows up, wouldn''t mind betting he''s in the 23 for the World Cup 2014. He''ll probably bang in 10/15 goals next year ;)[/quote] Yes but when Martin first broke onto the scene it was at Championship level and he was scoring more frequently than Wickham , Wickham could be anything and i include turning out to be the next Bowditch in that , remember him worth £5 million, Liverpool interested and finished up at Yeovil.

[Brendo 0]

[quote user="When Saturday Comes"]I think this is just a bit of jealousy really - let''s just accept that Ipswich have a VERY good player on their hands. I reckon in 4 years time we''ll all be supporting him at the World Cup. He is that good, and good luck to him. Seems like he has a good head on his shoulders. [/quote]Absolutely agree. [Y] I tried praising him before...As Trent said, he''s got everything a great striker needs, and he''s only 17! Would swap him for any 3 players in our team any day.

[bjg123 0]

[quote user="Ncfc"][quote user="LocalDerbys"]1) Connor recently turned 17, Martin is 21.2) Connor is playing in the championship, Martin has been playing in league 1.3) You have obviously never seen him play.4) Majority of those appearances are from the bench.5) Norwich have been scoring an abundance of goals, Ipswich couldn''t score for sh*t last term.

He is going to be one hell of a player when he grows up, wouldn''t mind betting he''s in the 23 for the World Cup 2014. He''ll probably bang in 10/15 goals next year ;)[/quote] Yes but when Martin first broke onto the scene it was at Championship level and he was scoring more frequently than Wickham , Wickham could be anything and i include turning out to be the next Bowditch in that , remember him worth £5 million, Liverpool interested and finished up at Yeovil.[/quote]Not much more frequently, 5 in 20, and was a year older than Wickham.

[Lincs CR 0]

The best thing of all, is he will be playing premiership football before his current club will when a big team notices his potential and Ipswich have no choice but to accept the offer considering the money they''ve wasted on drop outs the past few years.

[Coelho 0]

Well if they do get their asking price, maybe Marcus Evans will be able to take back the money the club owes him and f**k off back into the hole from which he came... we can but hope ;)

[TheNewBoy 0]

[quote user="Norfolk Mustard"][quote user="Canary_on_the Trent"]The biggest striking prospect in the country has to be worth a fair bit surely. Obviously lots of hot prospects fall by the wayside but Wickham has it all and he''s only just 17, big, strong, quick, great finisher and a footballing brain. Why should Ipswich sell him cheaply if they believe he''s going to go on to play at the very top level?
[/quote] I''m making the observation that strikers need to score; and 1 in 5 is nothing remarkable. We have better than that in Chris Martin... Wickham may go on to be world class, but right now he seems to be rated incredibly highly - without the end product called goals! I doubt Robbie Fowler, Michael Owen, Wayne Rooney etc commenced their careers with stats as low as that?[/quote]

Your opinion seems completely void of any sort of genuine consideration or analysis to be taken the slightly bit seriously, your follow up is non-factual and inaccurate. Firstly he has only just turned 17, so 6 goals in 29 appearances were scored by a 16 year old. A little bit of research, as now for some reason undertaken by me on your behalf, confirms the following:

• Robbie Fowler did not make his Liverpool debut until the age of 17 and a half.
• Michael Owen did not make his Liverpool debut until the age of 17 and a half.
• Wayne Rooney began playing for Everton as a 16 year old but scored just 8 goals in 37 appearances.
• Wayne Rooneys 8 in 37 is a scoring rate of 4.625, in other words 1 in 5.
• A higher proportion of Wickhams appearances were from the subs bench.
• Chris Martin was almost 2 years older than Wickham when making his Norwich debut.
• Chris Martin''s first season wielded 4 goals in 18 games, the equivalent of 1 in 5, with most of his appearances being starts.

Quite why you would want to bring statistics in the game when judging any kid is beyond me though, all that matters is what he looks like on the pitch? This post probably loses you a bit of credibility to be honest, I will put it down to bias. If you want to judge footballers by statistics then Michael Ricketts would have been better in the 2001/2002 season than Fernando Torres was in 2009/2010 season and Simon Lappin would be better than Darren Huckerby based on his ''assist statistics''.

Anybody with any ounce of knowledge about football, having seen Wickham play, would have worked out that Wickham is twice as good as Chris Martin within about 5 minutes. Connor Wickham has been attracting the attention of the big four since he was 13, he hasn''t suprised anybody. Either you haven''t seen him play and you have based your opinion on a few numbers on a computer screen, or you don''t know how to spot a good player, which is it?

Statistics were brought to football by poncy French managers and made mainstream by the armchair fan. I hate them. But if you want to argue with numbers, I think I have just beat you sir.

[TheNewBoy 0]

[quote user="Coelho"]Well if they do get their asking price, maybe Marcus Evans will be able to take back the money the club owes him and f**k off back into the hole from which he came... we can but hope ;)
[/quote]

I don''t want Marcus Evans to go anywhere, he is doing an excellent job of wasting money on achieving nothing. Any man who appoints Roy Keane as manager of Ipswich Town is a legend in my eyes.

[TheNewBoy 0]

[quote user="Norfolk Mustard"][quote user="When Saturday Comes"]I think this is just a bit of jealousy really - let''s just accept that Ipswich have a VERY good player on their hands.

I reckon in 4 years time we''ll all be supporting him at the World Cup. He is that good, and good luck to him. Seems like he has a good head on his shoulders.
[/quote] Guys - no jealousy whatsoever from me - I love watching football of all types. I coach kids, am Vice Chair of my local club, Child Welfare Officer etc too - so I''m well involved and appreciate the game. If Wickham plays for England I''ll be delighted. If he score a hat trick against Norwich next season I''ll gracefully ackowledge his achievement. I haven''t seen him play; the point I was making is his stats aren''t brilliant. If he''s come off the bench maybe that''s different, but doesn''t that beg the question why if he''s supposed to be so good? Rooney was let loose to start and complete 90 minute Premiership games at 16 - David Moyes showed there''s no need to hold back major talent if they''re strong enough.[/quote]

And if you do decide that judging a 16 year old by ''stats'' isn''t such a bright idea, then here is a video of the winning goal in the U17 European Championships final against, no less than, Spain. He had already scored both goals against France in the semi-final and 2 goals against the Czech Republic. He is a right footed player who scored both of his goals with his left foot.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wFeZjwQdR8

You might want to compare Wickham with Chris Martin, whilst the rest of football is comparing him with Fernando Torres. Former Internationals were even suggesting that he should be taken to the world cup. I am just shocked really, that somebody doesn''t rate him - he is almost the complete player at 17, this has thrown me a bit.

[TheNewBoy 0]

[quote user="TheNewBoy"]

[quote user="Norfolk Mustard"][quote user="When Saturday Comes"]I think this is just a bit of jealousy really - let''s just accept that Ipswich have a VERY good player on their hands.

I reckon in 4 years time we''ll all be supporting him at the World Cup. He is that good, and good luck to him. Seems like he has a good head on his shoulders.
[/quote] Guys - no jealousy whatsoever from me - I love watching football of all types. I coach kids, am Vice Chair of my local club, Child Welfare Officer etc too - so I''m well involved and appreciate the game. If Wickham plays for England I''ll be delighted. If he score a hat trick against Norwich next season I''ll gracefully ackowledge his achievement. I haven''t seen him play; the point I was making is his stats aren''t brilliant. If he''s come off the bench maybe that''s different, but doesn''t that beg the question why if he''s supposed to be so good? Rooney was let loose to start and complete 90 minute Premiership games at 16 - David Moyes showed there''s no need to hold back major talent if they''re strong enough.[/quote]

And if you do decide that judging a 16 year old by ''stats'' isn''t such a bright idea, then here is a video of the winning goal in the U17 European Championships final against, no less than, Spain. He had already scored both goals against France in the semi-final and 2 goals against the Czech Republic. He is a right footed player who scored both of his goals with his left foot.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wFeZjwQdR8

You might want to compare Wickham with Chris Martin, whilst the rest of football is comparing him with Fernando Torres. Former Internationals were even suggesting that he should be taken to the world cup. I am just shocked really, that somebody doesn''t rate him - he is almost the complete player at 17, this has thrown me a bit.

[/quote]

*both of his goals against France with his left foot.

[Norfolk Mustard 94]

[quote user="TheNewBoy"]

[quote user="Norfolk Mustard"][quote user="Canary_on_the Trent"]The biggest striking prospect in the country has to be worth a fair bit surely. Obviously lots of hot prospects fall by the wayside but Wickham has it all and he''s only just 17, big, strong, quick, great finisher and a footballing brain. Why should Ipswich sell him cheaply if they believe he''s going to go on to play at the very top level?
[/quote] I''m making the observation that strikers need to score; and 1 in 5 is nothing remarkable. We have better than that in Chris Martin... Wickham may go on to be world class, but right now he seems to be rated incredibly highly - without the end product called goals! I doubt Robbie Fowler, Michael Owen, Wayne Rooney etc commenced their careers with stats as low as that?[/quote]

Your opinion seems completely void of any sort of genuine consideration or analysis to be taken the slightly bit seriously, your follow up is non-factual and inaccurate. Firstly he has only just turned 17, so 6 goals in 29 appearances were scored by a 16 year old. A little bit of research, as now for some reason undertaken by me on your behalf, confirms the following:

• Robbie Fowler did not make his Liverpool debut until the age of 17 and a half.
• Michael Owen did not make his Liverpool debut until the age of 17 and a half.
• Wayne Rooney began playing for Everton as a 16 year old but scored just 8 goals in 37 appearances.
• Wayne Rooneys 8 in 37 is a scoring rate of 4.625, in other words 1 in 5.
• A higher proportion of Wickhams appearances were from the subs bench.
• Chris Martin was almost 2 years older than Wickham when making his Norwich debut.
• Chris Martin''s first season wielded 4 goals in 18 games, the equivalent of 1 in 5, with most of his appearances being starts.

Quite why you would want to bring statistics in the game when judging any kid is beyond me though, all that matters is what he looks like on the pitch? This post probably loses you a bit of credibility to be honest, I will put it down to bias. If you want to judge footballers by statistics then Michael Ricketts would have been better in the 2001/2002 season than Fernando Torres was in 2009/2010 season and Simon Lappin would be better than Darren Huckerby based on his ''assist statistics''.

Anybody with any ounce of knowledge about football, having seen Wickham play, would have worked out that Wickham is twice as good as Chris Martin within about 5 minutes. Connor Wickham has been attracting the attention of the big four since he was 13, he hasn''t suprised anybody. Either you haven''t seen him play and you have based your opinion on a few numbers on a computer screen, or you don''t know how to spot a good player, which is it?

Statistics were brought to football by poncy French managers and made mainstream by the armchair fan. I hate them. But if you want to argue with numbers, I think I have just beat you sir.

[/quote]

Blimey, you really have provided a comprehensive response! No, I''ve not gone to see him play - I prefer watching my own team. I was just wondering why this lad is being touted as being worth all that money without scoring many goals?

We''ll all find out soon enough - probably when he starts netting a few! I genuinely look forward to it.

[City penguin 0]

its still very early in his career could flop he is worth a couple of million.

[Bethnal Yellow and Green 1,557]

An important factor is that he is 17, if a club buys him now in 4 years time he will class as being "home grown - trained at the club". New UEFA regulations will mean that clubs have to include a certain number of players trained within the club, this will see the price of 17 year olds being pushed up as clubs will look to buy the best young talents.Also with young players it isn''t a fact of looking at their stats but at how they actually play. Wickham has shown he has the ability to become a top-class player.

[Branston Pickle 3,655]

He''s undoubtedly a good prospect, and I hope for his sake (rather than for the binners!) that he does come on as predicted, but the game is littered with young players who burst onto the scene and then flop or just don''t progress as hoped for in their second season.

When I was a kid, I went to an England U-18 international, and not one of those who was playing made it as a pro, certainly not at the top level....

[TheGoogler 324]

Totally agree with BP. He''s a young lad who has done very well for himself so far. He''s clearly potentially talented. But realising that talent is another thing altogether.

His emergence onto the scene has been so hyped simply because Ipswich have so little to cheer about. I, for one, hope the weight of expectation on him doesn''t crush him.

[Norfolk Mustard 94]

Fergie was fiercely protective of Ryan Giggs when he was 17 - no media interviews etc - and look at the outcome; Giggs has become the most decorated player in the English game.

There''s a lot to be said for nurturing - mind you, Man Utd''s ''success culture'' enabled Giggs to grow - it''s different at many other clubs where the expectation can weigh them down. For Englands sake I too hope that doesn''t happen with Wickham!