If the Tories really get nasty!

[paul moy 235]

[quote user="Croydon Canary"]Trust me on this,under this Tory government (it,s not really a coalition] we will end up with five million unemployed and a massive youth unemployment problem.The time to cut back on public spending is not now when we have a small fragile recovery underway.The economy will start contracting,social costs will rise and we will end up in a downward spiral. Never mind we will be told that it,s for our own good ! The Tories are using this deficit as an excuse to savage the public sector,we are not Canada,and trying to copy their austerity model will end in tears.Is public spending too high ? yes it is. but now is not the time.Growth and even a little bit of inflation is the pragmatic way to reduce the deficit.As long as Britain is growing it,s GDP the credit ratings agencies will be happy.We are not Spain,Greece or Ireland,our debt is secured in a much different way meaning much less immediate pressure to meet payments. Imagine Man United being taken over by the Tories,they would probably scrap the youth policy and reserve team and sell Rooney to attempt to nibble away at the clubs debts.[/quote]

 

There are already 8 million people of working age not working in this country, and youth unemployment is almost 1 million, so your scenario already exists. The solution is not necessarily in cutting jobs but in getting better value for the jobs already there. People in the private sector have been taking pay cuts for years as an effect of globalisation and competition from politically motivated mass immigration, so it is only fair that cuts in pay for the public sector is one area where savings can be made, as has been done already in other countries in the EU such as Spain and Greece.  Employees at BA in the private sector have already agreed to cuts in pay with the notable exception of some cabin crew, as they have realised that without them they will not have jobs before long. So cuts in pay do not mean job losses and will not affect growth, but no cuts and for sure jobs will have to go and growth will be affected. Growth indeed will clear some of this deficit but in no way is it going to clear an ongoing deficit of this scale.  

[Yellow Wal 314]

[quote user="morty"][quote user="Yellow Wall"]In all my working life I have only been without work for six weeks and that was an occassion when I was on strike.

The first two weeks were like a holiday, the second two weeks were a bit boring but the last two weeks were the worst two weeks of my life.

No purpose, no energy, not knowing what to do or where to go.

How the hell I could have done that for a year is beyond me![/quote]Well maybe some people don''t have a choice.[/quote]

And for them I feel extraordinarily sorry.

[morty 0]

[quote user="Yellow Wall"][quote user="morty"][quote user="Yellow Wall"]In all my working life I have only been without work for six weeks and that was an occassion when I was on strike.

The first two weeks were like a holiday, the second two weeks were a bit boring but the last two weeks were the worst two weeks of my life.

No purpose, no energy, not knowing what to do or where to go.

How the hell I could have done that for a year is beyond me![/quote]Well maybe some people don''t have a choice.[/quote]

And for them I feel extraordinarily sorry.[/quote]Good answer lol, because if you were about to come out with the answer of "You can always find work if you try hard enough" then I was going to go into rant mode.[:)]

[ricardo 7,349]

[quote user="morty"][quote user="Yellow Wall"][quote user="morty"][quote user="Yellow Wall"]In all my working life I have only been without work for six weeks and that was an occassion when I was on strike.

The first two weeks were like a holiday, the second two weeks were a bit boring but the last two weeks were the worst two weeks of my life.

No purpose, no energy, not knowing what to do or where to go.

How the hell I could have done that for a year is beyond me![/quote]Well maybe some people don''t have a choice.[/quote]

And for them I feel extraordinarily sorry.[/quote]Good answer lol, because if you were about to come out with the answer of "You can always find work if you try hard enough" then I was going to go into rant mode.[:)][/quote]Very true Morty. I thought it would be relatively easy to find work after I had been made redundant in 2006. I had never been unemployed before since starting work in 1962. However, despite being available for almost any job I found it impossible to even get an interview. They don''t want to know you when you are over 60 and you can''t  get pension credit if you have any reasonable amount of savings.After 6 months JSA it was a case of "you are on your own" and I had to live off my savings because despite what they say about the benefit system, there is nothing for those who have done the right thing over the years and put a bit aside for emergencies. Fortunately I eventually became self employed and did whatever I could to get a few quid.The benefit system is weighed in favour of unmarried mothers with plenty of kids and those who have never worked and know how to work the system. For those in the middle who have always worked and suddenly fall on hard times its a nightmare.I was lucky, in that I had paid up my mortgage and had no debts. For those of you that are young and are now facing the propect of losing your jobs I have great sympathy. Don''t think that the Government will keep you; it can''t because I''m afraid that the cupboard is bare.

[morty 0]

[quote user="ricardo"][quote user="morty"][quote user="Yellow Wall"][quote user="morty"][quote user="Yellow Wall"]In all my working life I have only been without work for six weeks and that was an occassion when I was on strike.

The first two weeks were like a holiday, the second two weeks were a bit boring but the last two weeks were the worst two weeks of my life.

No purpose, no energy, not knowing what to do or where to go.

How the hell I could have done that for a year is beyond me![/quote]Well maybe some people don''t have a choice.[/quote]

And for them I feel extraordinarily sorry.[/quote]Good answer lol, because if you were about to come out with the answer of "You can always find work if you try hard enough" then I was going to go into rant mode.[:)][/quote]Very true Morty. I thought it would be relatively easy to find work after I had been made redundant in 2006. I had never been unemployed before since starting work in 1962. However, despite being available for almost any job I found it impossible to even get an interview. They don''t want to know you when you are over 60 and you can''t  get pension credit if you have any reasonable amount of savings.After 6 months JSA it was a case of "you are on your own" and I had to live off my savings because despite what they say about the benefit system, there is nothing for those who have done the right thing over the years and put a bit aside for emergencies. Fortunately I eventually became self employed and did whatever I could to get a few quid.The benefit system is weighed in favour of unmarried mothers with plenty of kids and those who have never worked and know how to work the system. For those in the middle who have always worked and suddenly fall on hard times its a nightmare.I was lucky, in that I had paid up my mortgage and had no debts. For those of you that are young and are now facing the propect of losing your jobs I have great sympathy. Don''t think that the Government will keep you; it can''t because I''m afraid that the cupboard is bare. [/quote]You talk a lot of sense.Because I have specialised in a niche of my chosen profession I have now applied for nearly 150 jobs since I was made redundant nearly 6 months ago now. Luckily prior to that I was well paid, and I had savings to tide me over.The state pays me nothing because I have a military pension, they have just told me they are no longer even going to pay my national insurance stamp.I asked at the job centre if there was money available for training, they told me there was, so I asked for £150 to upgrade one of my engineering qualifications, which would help me in finding a job, only to be met with the reply "Sorry, you''re too old, we''re only giving training grants to the under 25''s"Thanks for f uck all, welfare state.[:)]

[ricardo 7,349]

[quote user="morty"][quote user="ricardo"][quote user="morty"][quote user="Yellow Wall"][quote user="morty"][quote user="Yellow Wall"]In all my working life I have only been without work for six weeks and that was an occassion when I was on strike.

The first two weeks were like a holiday, the second two weeks were a bit boring but the last two weeks were the worst two weeks of my life.

No purpose, no energy, not knowing what to do or where to go.

How the hell I could have done that for a year is beyond me![/quote]Well maybe some people don''t have a choice.[/quote]

And for them I feel extraordinarily sorry.[/quote]Good answer lol, because if you were about to come out with the answer of "You can always find work if you try hard enough" then I was going to go into rant mode.[:)][/quote]Very true Morty. I thought it would be relatively easy to find work after I had been made redundant in 2006. I had never been unemployed before since starting work in 1962. However, despite being available for almost any job I found it impossible to even get an interview. They don''t want to know you when you are over 60 and you can''t  get pension credit if you have any reasonable amount of savings.After 6 months JSA it was a case of "you are on your own" and I had to live off my savings because despite what they say about the benefit system, there is nothing for those who have done the right thing over the years and put a bit aside for emergencies. Fortunately I eventually became self employed and did whatever I could to get a few quid.The benefit system is weighed in favour of unmarried mothers with plenty of kids and those who have never worked and know how to work the system. For those in the middle who have always worked and suddenly fall on hard times its a nightmare.I was lucky, in that I had paid up my mortgage and had no debts. For those of you that are young and are now facing the propect of losing your jobs I have great sympathy. Don''t think that the Government will keep you; it can''t because I''m afraid that the cupboard is bare. [/quote]You talk a lot of sense.Because I have specialised in a niche of my chosen profession I have now applied for nearly 150 jobs since I was made redundant nearly 6 months ago now. Luckily prior to that I was well paid, and I had savings to tide me over.The state pays me nothing because I have a military pension, they have just told me they are no longer even going to pay my national insurance stamp.I asked at the job centre if there was money available for training, they told me there was, so I asked for £150 to upgrade one of my engineering qualifications, which would help me in finding a job, only to be met with the reply "Sorry, you''re too old, we''re only giving training grants to the under 25''s"Thanks for f uck all, welfare state.[:)][/quote]Yes, that all rings a bell Morty. My mistake was taking a pension lump sum at 61 which I had to use to fund my last 4 years. If I hadn''t taken it I would have got Pension Credit and still had my lump sum to look forward to. The benefit system is so unfair in so many ways.You can get Tax credits, but only if you have kids or work over 30 hours a week. To get to that figure most people have to do 2 or 3 part time jobs.My advice to you Morty would be to have a sex change and have a house full of kids. You can really coin it then.

[morty 0]

[quote user="ricardo"][quote user="morty"][quote user="ricardo"][quote user="morty"][quote user="Yellow Wall"][quote user="morty"][quote user="Yellow Wall"]In all my working life I have only been without work for six weeks and that was an occassion when I was on strike.

The first two weeks were like a holiday, the second two weeks were a bit boring but the last two weeks were the worst two weeks of my life.

No purpose, no energy, not knowing what to do or where to go.

How the hell I could have done that for a year is beyond me![/quote]Well maybe some people don''t have a choice.[/quote]

And for them I feel extraordinarily sorry.[/quote]Good answer lol, because if you were about to come out with the answer of "You can always find work if you try hard enough" then I was going to go into rant mode.[:)][/quote]Very true Morty. I thought it would be relatively easy to find work after I had been made redundant in 2006. I had never been unemployed before since starting work in 1962. However, despite being available for almost any job I found it impossible to even get an interview. They don''t want to know you when you are over 60 and you can''t  get pension credit if you have any reasonable amount of savings.After 6 months JSA it was a case of "you are on your own" and I had to live off my savings because despite what they say about the benefit system, there is nothing for those who have done the right thing over the years and put a bit aside for emergencies. Fortunately I eventually became self employed and did whatever I could to get a few quid.The benefit system is weighed in favour of unmarried mothers with plenty of kids and those who have never worked and know how to work the system. For those in the middle who have always worked and suddenly fall on hard times its a nightmare.I was lucky, in that I had paid up my mortgage and had no debts. For those of you that are young and are now facing the propect of losing your jobs I have great sympathy. Don''t think that the Government will keep you; it can''t because I''m afraid that the cupboard is bare. [/quote]You talk a lot of sense.Because I have specialised in a niche of my chosen profession I have now applied for nearly 150 jobs since I was made redundant nearly 6 months ago now. Luckily prior to that I was well paid, and I had savings to tide me over.The state pays me nothing because I have a military pension, they have just told me they are no longer even going to pay my national insurance stamp.I asked at the job centre if there was money available for training, they told me there was, so I asked for £150 to upgrade one of my engineering qualifications, which would help me in finding a job, only to be met with the reply "Sorry, you''re too old, we''re only giving training grants to the under 25''s"Thanks for f uck all, welfare state.[:)][/quote]Yes, that all rings a bell Morty. My mistake was taking a pension lump sum at 61 which I had to use to fund my last 4 years. If I hadn''t taken it I would have got Pension Credit and still had my lump sum to look forward to. The benefit system is so unfair in so many ways.You can get Tax credits, but only if you have kids or work over 30 hours a week. To get to that figure most people have to do 2 or 3 part time jobs.My advice to you Morty would be to have a sex change and have a house full of kids. You can really coin it then.[/quote]Its like I''m on the scrap heap at 42 lol.I''ll consider your advice!

[Binky 0]

[quote user="First Wizard"]

And pensions, jobs, savings etc all get cut, how long could you afford to support City?

Season tickets and the club could all be hit hard.............. well?

[/quote]As someone already on a pension, it would need a bit of thought but  in no particular order:1. sell off all my gold reserves2. raid your pension3. start a war somewhere and then write my memoirs4. go backpacking around the world and earn a living giving lectures on world peace

[The Fish Seller 0]

Poignant dialogue Ricardo and Morty, good luck to you both from one who knows what it''s like. [Y]

[Houston Canary 0]

Sex change for morty? Not another one!

or

Sex change? I already thought morty was a chick.

That sucks for ricardo and morty. Have either of you thought about teaching school? I don''t know the situation there, but we always have shortages of qualified people here. With engineering in your background, morty, you''d be snapped up in a minute for science or math, and those teachers get bonuses for teaching in the harder to fill positions.

Funny story- I went into the science teacher''s room to drop something off to a student and saw she was showing them the Al Gore movie. This turned out to be the same day I was using class time to show the students an editorital written by a real PhD in Meteorolgy about the AGW debate. The students seemed overwhelmingly in favor of my side. Go figure.

[morty 0]

[quote user="Buckethead"]Poignant dialogue Ricardo and Morty, good luck to you both from one who knows what it''s like. [Y][/quote]Thanks man.[Y]

[Badger 0]

Ricardo, sorry to hear that you have been let down by the system, however I have to take issue with what you say about single mothers. It is a fallacy that "they could easily get a job if they tried" but in many cases the same can be applied to single mothers. A younger relative of mine was left by her partner with a young child and believe me it is no more "the land of milk and honey" for her than it was for you. She gets as angry about all the "feckless young mothers" talk as I''m sure you did about the "idle unemployed who could easily get a job if only they bothered."

Most people on welfare have genuine need. I am sure that there are those that take advantage of the system but we shouldn''t label all people on benefits as undeserving because of it.

[Old Shuck 183]

The one time in my life when I was unemployed i thought (good education, good CV, experience, expertise etc) it would be fairly easy to get another job, *providing* I was disciplined about it and made getting a job, as people say, a job in itself...still getting up early, having a set routine, making regular checks or calls in all the usual places and being as committed and professional as possible...

...soon became a bit dis-illusioned after a few weeks of that and realising anyone and everyone who got up at 11am and spent the day in jogging pants just dossing around got the same income as me and probably had the same chance of getting a job as me-so I thought "**** it" and pretty much dossed about myself for a while. Which is, of course, the time an opportunity came up and that was that!

When I was having pretty damned intense and daily treatment for Cancer (which impacted on my wife''s life and earnings as well, as she had to drive me to Portsmouth every day for over 4 weeks to have radiotherapy and, on some days, chemo as well*) I came to realise that, being on IB at the time made me the lowest of the low, and that people on JSA were royalty, compared to me! "He has to be assessed, call in" ; "He can''t, his mouth and throat are burnt, he is sick, underweight, has no energy and is still on treatment", "yes, well, he still needs to be assessed, and come to that, he should be on the phone, where is he?" -etc etc etc!

So it slightly riles me when "sources" reckon a lot of people on IB are ''fit to work'' -sure, a lot might be, but a lot aren''t-and, given the epidemic of Cancer (and it is) in this country right now, a lot of them will be feeling as I did, or worse.

Of course, there are people who are vulnerable, and people who will always need care. That can''t be begrudged. Similarly, I can''t see how cutting or freezing benefits can help, I do think that some countries pay benefits -and at a decent level-to people in "return" for community work, and wonder why it is rarely mooted here-when it is, the argument about"human rights" seems to come to the fore, and cannot understand that at all.

[ricardo 7,349]

[quote user="Badger"]Ricardo, sorry to hear that you have been let down by the system, however I have to take issue with what you say about single mothers. It is a fallacy that "they could easily get a job if they tried" but in many cases the same can be applied to single mothers. A younger relative of mine was left by her partner with a young child and believe me it is no more "the land of milk and honey" for her than it was for you. She gets as angry about all the "feckless young mothers" talk as I''m sure you did about the "idle unemployed who could easily get a job if only they bothered."

Most people on welfare have genuine need. I am sure that there are those that take advantage of the system but we shouldn''t label all people on benefits as undeserving because of it.[/quote]I have no gripe with that Badger. The vast majority of people claiming benefits are genuine cases. My criticism is for the small minority who seem to have choosen the benefit system as a life style.

[Mister Chops 7]

[quote user="Old Shuck"]The one time in my life when I was unemployed i thought (good education, good CV, experience, expertise etc) it would be fairly easy to get another job, *providing* I was disciplined about it and made getting a job, as people say, a job in itself...still getting up early, having a set routine, making regular checks or calls in all the usual places and being as committed and professional as possible...

...soon became a bit dis-illusioned after a few weeks of that and realising anyone and everyone who got up at 11am and spent the day in jogging pants just dossing around got the same income as me and probably had the same chance of getting a job as me-so I thought "**** it" and pretty much dossed about myself for a while. Which is, of course, the time an opportunity came up and that was that!

When I was having pretty damned intense and daily treatment for Cancer (which impacted on my wife''s life and earnings as well, as she had to drive me to Portsmouth every day for over 4 weeks to have radiotherapy and, on some days, chemo as well*) I came to realise that, being on IB at the time made me the lowest of the low, and that people on JSA were royalty, compared to me! "He has to be assessed, call in" ; "He can''t, his mouth and throat are burnt, he is sick, underweight, has no energy and is still on treatment", "yes, well, he still needs to be assessed, and come to that, he should be on the phone, where is he?" -etc etc etc!

So it slightly riles me when "sources" reckon a lot of people on IB are ''fit to work'' -sure, a lot might be, but a lot aren''t-and, given the epidemic of Cancer (and it is) in this country right now, a lot of them will be feeling as I did, or worse.

Of course, there are people who are vulnerable, and people who will always need care. That can''t be begrudged. Similarly, I can''t see how cutting or freezing benefits can help, I do think that some countries pay benefits -and at a decent level-to people in "return" for community work, and wonder why it is rarely mooted here-when it is, the argument about"human rights" seems to come to the fore, and cannot understand that at all.[/quote]Sounds like you had a rough time, I hope all is in remission now.I consider myself somewhat liberal/left-wing but I support the idea of "workfare" for those who can work, i.e. linking benefit payment to a given number of hours community service/volunteering.  If nothing else it brings structure to your day, it gives you a sense of having done something and achievement (however small that may be), it keeps you active, it means you get out of the house and meet new people.  There seems to be a lot to be said for it. (Of course I am idealising it and the reality of getting up at 7am to paint over some graffiti is less than ideal, but I think there is a small minority of people who have decided on a benefit lifestyle, i.e. who have never worked, and for whom claiming benefits without effort in return is an "entitlement"/a way of life, and this would get them out into the world.)Maybe I''m not as left wing as I thought.

[Mister Chops 7]

[quote user="ricardo"][quote user="Badger"]Ricardo, sorry to hear that you have been let down by the system, however I have to take issue with what you say about single mothers. It is a fallacy that "they could easily get a job if they tried" but in many cases the same can be applied to single mothers. A younger relative of mine was left by her partner with a young child and believe me it is no more "the land of milk and honey" for her than it was for you. She gets as angry about all the "feckless young mothers" talk as I''m sure you did about the "idle unemployed who could easily get a job if only they bothered."

Most people on welfare have genuine need. I am sure that there are those that take advantage of the system but we shouldn''t label all people on benefits as undeserving because of it.[/quote]I have no gripe with that Badger. The vast majority of people claiming benefits are genuine cases. My criticism is for the small minority who seem to have choosen the benefit system as a life style.[/quote]Yes, that''s what I was trying to say in many more words.  The Benefit system should be a safety net, a temporary thing and not an entitlement/lifestyle choice.

[AndyJR 0]

Frankly, watching question time last night made me realise two things.  A) Katie Hopkins holds hideous views and is at odds with the vast majority of my views ( I blame the BBC for dumbing down the program so it''s not entirely her fault ) and B) I was an utter prat for voting Liberal, although I still hold the true values of Liberalism as do many members. There used to be a job swap week in which many UK public/private sector companies participated, shame it wasn''t continued.  I would happily swap my work with certain people on this board; perhaps they might realise how incredibly desperate those in the ''benefit life style'' system are.  Documentaries about people ripping off the system appears to appeal to the contrite voyerurs; if a documentary was made representing the 95% of people who want to get out of it, it wouldn''t be watched.How sad.

[Mister Chops 7]

I''m not sure why an ex-Apprentice contestant would be a "suitable" panel member on the BBC Question Time.  I presume she was the token populist viewpoint?

[Webbo118 0]

[quote user="ricardo"][quote user="morty"][quote user="Yellow Wall"][quote user="morty"][quote user="Yellow Wall"]In all my working life I have only been without work for six weeks and that was an occassion when I was on strike. The first two weeks were like a holiday, the second two weeks were a bit boring but the last two weeks were the worst two weeks of my life. No purpose, no energy, not knowing what to do or where to go. How the hell I could have done that for a year is beyond me![/quote]

Well maybe some people don''t have a choice.
[/quote] And for them I feel extraordinarily sorry.[/quote]

Good answer lol, because if you were about to come out with the answer of "You can always find work if you try hard enough" then I was going to go into rant mode.

[:)]
[/quote]

Very true Morty. I thought it would be relatively easy to find work after I had been made redundant in 2006. I had never been unemployed before since starting work in 1962. However, despite being available for almost any job I found it impossible to even get an interview. They don''t want to know you when you are over 60 and you can''t  get pension credit if you have any reasonable amount of savings.

After 6 months JSA it was a case of "you are on your own" and I had to live off my savings because despite what they say about the benefit system, there is nothing for those who have done the right thing over the years and put a bit aside for emergencies. Fortunately I eventually became self employed and did whatever I could to get a few quid.

The benefit system is weighed in favour of unmarried mothers with plenty of kids and those who have never worked and know how to work the system. For those in the middle who have always worked and suddenly fall on hard times its a nightmare.

I was lucky, in that I had paid up my mortgage and had no debts. For those of you that are young and are now facing the propect of losing your jobs I have great sympathy. Don''t think that the Government will keep you; it can''t because I''m afraid that the cupboard is bare.
[/quote]

Agree with all of that but would just substitute 50 for 60. The questions go "are you married?", "does your wife work?" and "how many hours per week?" , quickly followed by "cheerio then". My experience of J.C.''s is totally negative. With only a few exceptions, they are staffed my uninterested, negative people who show little regard for their "customers". My experiences also confirm that ageism is rife in this country. I have been told on countless occasions that I can''t be given a job because I am over-qualified. The learning point - you have to look after and make provisions for yourself because no-one else is going to. 

[ricardo 7,349]

[quote user="Webbo118"]

Agree with all of that but would just substitute 50 for 60. The questions go "are you married?", "does your wife work?" and "how many hours per week?" , quickly followed by "cheerio then". My experience of J.C.''s is totally negative. With only a few exceptions, they are staffed my uninterested, negative people who show little regard for their "customers". My experiences also confirm that ageism is rife in this country. I have been told on countless occasions that I can''t be given a job because I am over-qualified. The learning point - you have to look after and make provisions for yourself because no-one else is going to. 

[/quote]Likewise Webbo, it was a depressing and demeening experience for me to.I found that their main aim was to push all over 60''s onto pension credit if at all possible. To me, that was just a way of fiddling the real unemployment figures. There must be tens of thousands of people who have to come off JSA after the 6 month entitlement period and who are then in receipt of no benefit and just numbered as economically inactive.

[ricardo 7,349]

[quote user="AndyJR"]Frankly, watching question time last night made me realise two things.  A) Katie Hopkins holds hideous views and is at odds with the vast majority of my views ( I blame the BBC for dumbing down the program so it''s not entirely her fault ) and B) I was an utter prat for voting Liberal, although I still hold the true values of Liberalism as do many members. There used to be a job swap week in which many UK public/private sector companies participated, shame it wasn''t continued.  I would happily swap my work with certain people on this board; perhaps they might realise how incredibly desperate those in the ''benefit life style'' system are.  Documentaries about people ripping off the system appears to appeal to the contrite voyerurs; if a documentary was made representing the 95% of people who want to get out of it, it wouldn''t be watched.How sad. [/quote]Unfortunately Andy, its the small minority who abuse the system who make the news.

[morty 0]

Lol, job centre, don''t make me laugh.In 6 months they have not done one thing for me, every job I have applied for, each interview, has been done off my own back.No help in any way, shape or form.

[AndyJR 0]

[quote user="morty"]Lol, job centre, don''t make me laugh.In 6 months they have not done one thing for me, every job I have applied for, each interview, has been done off my own back.No help in any way, shape or form.[/quote]Because they are told to spend under 3 minutes with each customer, but in order to offer people help, let''s cut those on the front line.  Brilliant.  Stat''s stat''s stat''s morty.  It''s disgusting I agree and also makes for a workforce (many who care) feel like giving up.  It''s not as simple as blaming those on the front line sir.

[AndyJR 0]

[quote user="Mister Chops"]I''m not sure why an ex-Apprentice contestant would be a "suitable" panel member on the BBC Question Time.  I presume she was the token populist viewpoint?[/quote]Oh yes. Watch it on BBC I player but I will pre-warn you; you may find castrating yourself in a bath of vinegar more comfortable than watching that level of elitism.

[morty 0]

[quote user="AndyJR"][quote user="morty"]Lol, job centre, don''t make me laugh.In 6 months they have not done one thing for me, every job I have applied for, each interview, has been done off my own back.No help in any way, shape or form.[/quote]Because they are told to spend under 3 minutes with each customer, but in order to offer people help, let''s cut those on the front line.  Brilliant.  Stat''s stat''s stat''s morty.  It''s disgusting I agree and also makes for a workforce (many who care) feel like giving up.  It''s not as simple as blaming those on the front line sir. [/quote]You are wrong actually. Each appointment is about 5 minutes, and at about the 4 month point you go onto 10 minute appointments for about 6 weeks.Still utterly, utterly useless.Its their job, they should care, if they don''t want to do their job then I''ll quite happily have it.

[Badger 0]

Mt Chops, I regard myself as pretty left wing too and see absolutely no problem with workfare. If it puts off the small minority of people that chose welfare as a lifestyle, the huge majority of genuine cases will be the ones that benefit, through better support and forcing the rest of society to acknowledge the reality of the problem.

It is a shame that the incoming government recently cut the Future Jobs Fund, which did precisely this. Young people were forced to take a job (subsidised through the fund) to imbue good habits and actually get them used to life of working rather than benefits. Instead, I suppose that they are deluding themselves that they are going to do the same with better detection etc (no chance). I fear that they will repeat the same mistakes that they did in the 1980s creating the very dependency culture that they claim to deplore.

The "tough talk" will be popular but will fail because it misdiagnoses the nature of the problem. In the long run it will serve to make it worse, and will increase benefit costs.

[AndyJR 0]

[quote user="morty"][quote user="AndyJR"][quote user="morty"]Lol, job centre, don''t make me laugh.In 6 months they have not done one thing for me, every job I have applied for, each interview, has been done off my own back.No help in any way, shape or form.[/quote]Because they are told to spend under 3 minutes with each customer, but in order to offer people help, let''s cut those on the front line.  Brilliant.  Stat''s stat''s stat''s morty.  It''s disgusting I agree and also makes for a workforce (many who care) feel like giving up.  It''s not as simple as blaming those on the front line sir. [/quote]You are wrong actually. Each appointment is about 5 minutes, and at about the 4 month point you go onto 10 minute appointments for about 6 weeks.Still utterly, utterly useless.Its their job, they should care, if they don''t want to do their job then I''ll quite happily have it.[/quote]You''re wrong Monty.  I really could tell you exactly what the targets are as I work within in them but your probably not wrong for being bitter. Writre to your MP and stop blaming and correcting those that actually care.  No offence but you''ve really got my goat.

[morty 0]

[quote user="AndyJR"][quote user="morty"][quote user="AndyJR"][quote user="morty"]Lol, job centre, don''t make me laugh.In 6 months they have not done one thing for me, every job I have applied for, each interview, has been done off my own back.No help in any way, shape or form.[/quote]Because they are told to spend under 3 minutes with each customer, but in order to offer people help, let''s cut those on the front line.  Brilliant.  Stat''s stat''s stat''s morty.  It''s disgusting I agree and also makes for a workforce (many who care) feel like giving up.  It''s not as simple as blaming those on the front line sir. [/quote]You are wrong actually. Each appointment is about 5 minutes, and at about the 4 month point you go onto 10 minute appointments for about 6 weeks.Still utterly, utterly useless.Its their job, they should care, if they don''t want to do their job then I''ll quite happily have it.[/quote]You''re wrong Monty.  I really could tell you exactly what the targets are as I work within in them but your probably not wrong for being bitter. Writre to your MP and stop blaming and correcting those that actually care.  No offence but you''ve really got my goat. [/quote]I think I know how long my appointments have lasted mate.Yeah, lets just all look around for someone else to blame, thats the answer. I understand that people work under constraints, but if they are obviously showing no enthusiasm for their job whatsoever, then they belong on the other side of the desk.

[AndyJR 0]

[quote user="morty"][quote user="AndyJR"][quote user="morty"][quote user="AndyJR"][quote user="morty"]Lol, job centre, don''t make me laugh.In 6 months they have not done one thing for me, every job I have applied for, each interview, has been done off my own back.No help in any way, shape or form.[/quote]Because they are told to spend under 3 minutes with each customer, but in order to offer people help, let''s cut those on the front line.  Brilliant.  Stat''s stat''s stat''s morty.  It''s disgusting I agree and also makes for a workforce (many who care) feel like giving up.  It''s not as simple as blaming those on the front line sir. [/quote]You are wrong actually. Each appointment is about 5 minutes, and at about the 4 month point you go onto 10 minute appointments for about 6 weeks.Still utterly, utterly useless.Its their job, they should care, if they don''t want to do their job then I''ll quite happily have it.[/quote]You''re wrong Monty.  I really could tell you exactly what the targets are as I work within in them but your probably not wrong for being bitter. Writre to your MP and stop blaming and correcting those that actually care.  No offence but you''ve really got my goat. [/quote]I think I know how long my appointments have lasted mate.Yeah, lets just all look around for someone else to blame, thats the answer. I understand that people work under constraints, but if they are obviously showing no enthusiasm for their job whatsoever, then they belong on the other side of the desk.[/quote]Norwich, Yarmouth, Cormer, Dereham, King''s Lynn.... Do tell me.  Evidently I''m not doing my job if that''s how long it takes. Request a GL24 next time it takes that long. 

[morty 0]

[quote user="AndyJR"][quote user="morty"][quote user="AndyJR"][quote user="morty"][quote user="AndyJR"][quote user="morty"]Lol, job centre, don''t make me laugh.In 6 months they have not done one thing for me, every job I have applied for, each interview, has been done off my own back.No help in any way, shape or form.[/quote]Because they are told to spend under 3 minutes with each customer, but in order to offer people help, let''s cut those on the front line.  Brilliant.  Stat''s stat''s stat''s morty.  It''s disgusting I agree and also makes for a workforce (many who care) feel like giving up.  It''s not as simple as blaming those on the front line sir. [/quote]You are wrong actually. Each appointment is about 5 minutes, and at about the 4 month point you go onto 10 minute appointments for about 6 weeks.Still utterly, utterly useless.Its their job, they should care, if they don''t want to do their job then I''ll quite happily have it.[/quote]You''re wrong Monty.  I really could tell you exactly what the targets are as I work within in them but your probably not wrong for being bitter. Writre to your MP and stop blaming and correcting those that actually care.  No offence but you''ve really got my goat. [/quote]I think I know how long my appointments have lasted mate.Yeah, lets just all look around for someone else to blame, thats the answer. I understand that people work under constraints, but if they are obviously showing no enthusiasm for their job whatsoever, then they belong on the other side of the desk.[/quote]Norwich, Yarmouth, Cormer, Dereham, King''s Lynn.... Do tell me.  Evidently I''m not doing my job if that''s how long it takes. Request a GL24 next time it takes that long.  [/quote]I''m not interested mate to be honest, I don''t even get any money, I was only going to get my stamp paid, and I have had a letter saying they are not even going to do that anymore.I''m going to tell them to poke it next time I go and sign on.What I have said to you isn''t some kind of dig, it is my opinion based on my own personal experience.They may as well sack the lot of them and just tell people to go home and find their own job.