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Which of you do not support England

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I don''t support England without limit by any means. It would be a Norwich win in the Championship every time rather than having to watch the likes of Terry and Cole enjoying any success whatsoever. If those two ere injured, of course, I would find English success more palatable, but blind patriotism regardless of the personnel? Not for me.

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[quote user="The 12th Devine"]I don''t support England without limit by any means. It would be a Norwich win in the Championship every time rather than having to watch the likes of Terry and Cole enjoying any success whatsoever. If those two ere injured, of course, I would find English success more palatable, but blind patriotism regardless of the personnel? Not for me.[/quote]

 

and as i said previous, did you stop supporting Norwich when Matty Patty was arrested for being drunk whilst driving? That was a disgraceful act that put shame on the club but it made no difference to your alliance for Norwich did it

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[quote user="Trent Canary"]"England is an arbitary nation state and I''ve got more in common with a

working man with a brain in Norway than I have with a chav from

Plymouth."By the same token surely you have more in common with a working man with a brain in Plymouth, than you have a chav from Heartsease or Mile Cross?Anyway, will leave this one for the evening, before I get accused of trying to boost my post count [:)][/quote]I guess that''s true (though I''m more likely to be related to the chave from Mile cross [;)])Anyway, I don''t like being expected or told to support something, but if it came down to it, I''d fight for the country just like the next man. I think it comes down to growing up with England being totally dull as a team for the last 20 years, city players always seemingly overlooked, first getting into football in the late 70s and England having lots of Ipwich players and then Robson turning up, the hooligan/nationalistic/racist element etc etc. I''d rather England won it than anyone else though [:P] 

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Spat - I havent read all the thread, but by no means would I tell anyone to support England. My objection would be people who dont really care about England, but if by some fluke we reached the final they would all of a sudden become huge fans. It would remind me of every Man U fan out there, or the likes of Blackpool fans who all crawled out of the woodwork for their playoff final. But I agree with an earlier post that you choose your club, but cant choose your country; If for whatever reason you didnt like England as a country then I can completely understand.I agree the hooligan element does irritate me, but I think thats just a British thing altogether. Any spanish tourist destination would agree! I went to Ricky Hattons last fight (The night Norwich got relegated), and the behaviour of the british fans was embarassing to say the least; however it wouldnt stop me supporting Hatton (Not that he will ever fight again after getting knocked the fk out.!)

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I agree with

Arthur Whittle here, I firmly believe that there isn''t a large hooliganism element in the England fans following, not like there used to be anyway. Sure England still has it''s share of trouble makers amongst our away following just like many other European fans, but the vast majority of our away following aren''t hooligans, some people on here must clearly find that hard to believe but it''s true. I''m very proud of the support our national teams gets, 2nd to none in terms or traveling in numbers and getting behind the team. But some people on here clearly want to paint all of our away supporters with the same brush when in reality they have never been to an away game their self. I was in Germany in 2006 for 1 weekend during the world cup and witnessed no violence or threatening behavior what so ever, just lots of drunk fans having a good time in the sun and watching the football, this is clearly no excuse to dampen your passion or love for supporting England so give this one a rest.

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Ban the World Cup and The Euro Championship.....Let''s have more reality TV and cookery programmes on the box instead.

And yes, more soaps and more property/relocation progs.....and much more talent shows like "X-poptastic and I''m fuggin'' British and incredibly fuggin'' talentless" (and similar sh*te stuff)....More adverts, more repeats, more Dr Who, more political programmes, more taxes, more MPs, more quangos, more costly fuel, more expensive Olympics, more tossers pukin'' an'' fallin'' and fightin'' in the City, more jobless, more obesity, more mind-games, more pollution, more manipulation, more concrete jungles, more benefits, more tea morty, more conflicts, more lies, more Mandelson, more medication, more money, more misery, more mugging, more me, me, me...... More, more , more...(Andrea True Connection)....    

Bloody supporting England?.....Who the hell wishes to be born and actually want to live here?

Anyone fancy a Ruby Murray?

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[quote user="6088m canary"]

here is a quick one to chuck in......

A lot has been spoken about the fact that the shirt doesnt seem to mean that much to the players.

Lampard and gerrard (apart from this season) are class for their clubs yet rarely live up to it in our shirt. Perhaps they try too hard? I doubt that however,

If the likes of Scholes and Carragher can decide to just turn their backs on their country (and however patriotic or not we are, we would all chop our right arm off to wear the england shirt im sure) then how does that look to the nation?!?

Its much like an atmosphere in a ground. You have your hardcore fans then you have the ones that need the team to provide them with something worth cheering.  We havent had much of that recently eh?!

 

[/quote]

Now that I will take issue with - under Capello we have looked a genuinely good side most of the time - playing decent attacking football in a controlled manner, with players seemingly all knowing what their job is on the pitch.

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"You have your hardcore fans then you have the ones that need the team to provide them with something worth cheering.  We havent had much of that recently eh?!"Up until this season you could have been describing Norwich fans!

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That is exactly right Trent.I fall into both categories.At Carrow Road i abhore anyone that doesnt sing their lungs out and get behind the side.  Whenever i can get to games, i am always in the Lower Barclay, or of course the away end at other grounds.As for England i really fall into the non-hardcore category.  No single reason for that, just a basic amalgamation of most peoples views on here, regarding not having the same passion for England as they do City.I think the main reason is the rose tinted specs our supporters and media have of our side.England qualified mightily impressively i have to say, and congrats to all is deserved.  However, if you look through our side, try to pick out 3 of our starting eleven that would walk into the Spanish or Brazilian side (international form, not club form, since its a totally different game). Rooney, class above.  The rest, not quite up to scratch unfortunately.Like someone said, we should be hitting the quarters, we are good enough. To get beyond we need luck and underperforming others.  Its possible but being English im not overly optomistic.

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[quote user="Mello Yello"]

Ban the World Cup and The Euro Championship.....Let''s have more reality TV and cookery programmes on the box instead.

And yes, more soaps and more property/relocation progs.....and much more talent shows like "X-poptastic and I''m fuggin'' British and incredibly fuggin'' talentless" (and similar sh*te stuff)....More adverts, more repeats, more Dr Who, more political programmes, more taxes, more MPs, more quangos, more costly fuel, more expensive Olympics, more tossers pukin'' an'' fallin'' and fightin'' in the City, more jobless, more obesity, more mind-games, more pollution, more manipulation, more concrete jungles, more benefits, more tea morty, more conflicts, more lies, more Mandelson, more medication, more money, more misery, more mugging, more me, me, me...... More, more , more...(Andrea True Connection)....    

Bloody supporting England?.....Who the hell wishes to be born and actually want to live here?

Anyone fancy a Ruby Murray?

[/quote]That''s bloody genuis Mello.Recalls Radiohead in their ''97 pomp.

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"Like someone said, we should be hitting the quarters, we are good

enough. To get beyond we need luck and underperforming others.  Its

possible but being English im not overly optomistic."Now that I can agree with!Yeah I think ill go along with people can support whoever they like, as long as they stick with it. I dont mind people from Norwich supporting Man United, on the proviso that if they go broke and end up in league one then they still support them; we all know that wouldnt be the case. Same with Norwich, a lot of people got interested in Norwich when we reached the premiership, and dumped us again when we got relegated. With regards to England, if you want to support Spain then thats fine, but if somehow we ended up winning the world cup I expect those people not to take any pleasure in the success, or join in the celebrations that would inevitably take place. And I agree with regards the Media, but as mentioned already I have a real disdain for the British Media...

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[quote user="Old Shuck"]I think a lot of this is to do with choice.

We consciously make a decision to support Norwich. Its not made for you, and, if you are Norwich/Norfolk born and bred, it isn''t an automatic one either-there are many supporters in Norwich/Norfolk who support other teams and are proud to do so.Their choice, our choice.

If you are born in England-and you had no choice in that decision!-then you are expected to be English and support England in all things! The decision is not yours, its yours by trait of a birth that you had no choice in. Yes, I hope England do well in the World Cup. But my "relationship" with the England football team is to do with that association of birth and assumption that loyalty is ''given'' for that reason.

I chose to support Norwich. You don''t have to support your local team, even if you are born locally-that choice IS yours, I chose Norwich, many friends did the same, many more have chosen other clubs. We''re all English, but we played no part in that decision! On the other hand, our clubs-well, we did, and we do.

Do I have to be defined as an "Englishman" and therefore champion all that is English, simply because of my Birth? Or can I exercise freedom of choice-supposedly one of the bedrocks of being English/British? Or, must I be told that I HAVE to support England? Surely the opposite???[/quote]This sums up how I feel, but put in a far more eloquent way than I can manage.

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[quote user="Arthur Whittle"]I have never supported England I wish to see Spain win the world cup as I believe they play the best football and would be deserving winners

Ok fair comment, you want the team who plays the best football to win...............so I take it you dont support Norwich then???.....We didnt play the best football in League One let alone the whole english league system as a whole.............supporting man Utd or Arsenal next season???[/quote]If you had read all of my posts you would have noted that essentially I fail to support England as I feel no particular emotional attachment to England as a whole, therefore who I choose to support on the national stage is almost a free choice. Although as I also pointed out essentially I consider myself an international neutral. I do feel like I have an emotional attachment to Norfolk, Norwich & City therefore my choice to support them is far more involved than who plays the best football. However I am proud to support a team that tries to play the game the ''right way'' As a side point I would be interested to hear your opinion of who played better football in league 1 than us last season?

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IDB - Thats fair enough, but as per my last post, if England were to win the world cup would you take any pleasure from it or join in the celebrations? Or would you not be particularly bothered by it?  If the latter then fair enough, if the former then that would be my issue with all this.

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''Lord Nelson! Lord Beaverbrook! Sir Winston Churchill! Sir Anthony Eden! Clement Attlee! Henry Cooper! Lady Diana! Maggie Thatcher - can you hear me, Maggie Thatcher! Your boys took one hell of a beating! Your boys took one hell of a beating!''
Said by Bjorge Lillelien on Norwegian TV
The irony is that  most of the Chav Scum who cover themselves in the flag during football tournaments have got no idea who these people are.

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[quote user="Trent Canary"]IDB - Thats fair enough, but as per my last post, if England were to win the world cup would you take any pleasure from it or join in the celebrations? Or would you not be particularly bothered by it?  If the latter then fair enough, if the former then that would be my issue with all this. [/quote]That''s it in a nutshell Trent. If we had been Brazil over the last 40 years, winning 3 World Cups (IIRC), I simply don''t think you''d even be able to find people with IDB''s point of view.In other words, I reckon what we''re actually witnessing is the legacy of long-term, ''fairweather fan'' disillusionment amongst a generation of England fans who only know failure and humiliation.

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Urgh, non-matching quote blocks... How do I get around that??PLD: -Im not saying thats IDB''s view, im sure he/she will comment soon. But I think thats the case amongst a lot of people. As a big England Rugby/Cricket fan I was amazed how many people claimed to be big England fans as soon as we won the world cup in 2003/Ashes in 2005. Those fans then disappeared again soon after. Guess thats life. Although having said that, its not as though England football are a bad team when you look at the bigger picture, its not as though we are a country like Wales who never qualify at all (Sorry to pick on Wales, first team that came to mind!) For me supporting England is like supporting Norwich. The lowpoints make the high points that much sweeter - The only problem being I have hadnt any highs with England yet! (Other than the 5-1)

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[quote user="Trent Canary"]IDB - Thats fair enough, but as per my last post, if England were to win the world cup would you take any pleasure from it or join in the celebrations? Or would you not be particularly bothered by it?  If the latter then fair enough, if the former then that would be my issue with all this. [/quote]Thats a fair point and if I am to answer it with 100% honesty I don''t know, perhaps if England perform brilliantly and get to the final I will get swept up in the excitement and find something that makes me want to support then team. Of course that would make me a massive hypocrite. In reality I don''t think it would happen I remember every tournament since Italia 1990 (which as a child I must confess I did follow England) by Euro 96 I had largely lost interest. I have neither been elated at victories or disappointed by defeat at any of the subsequent tournamnets. I watched the 5-1 win over Germany, but that night for me is only memorable because I broke my leg later that evening, I was unaffected emotionally by the result. So in answer to your question no I don''t think so. You have my word that if England do well and I ''jump on the bandwagon'' I will ressurect this thread and confess, I am not too proud to admit when I am wrong.

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Fair answer IDB. It sounds like you have a consistent position with regards to the England team, so im happy to accept your point of view. Given that we support Norwich, its tough to describe any of us as ''Fair-weather fans''! As you say though, I doubt we will reach the final,  I can see us sailing into the Quarters, before being knocked out in some ridiculous fashion.

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First and formost I''m a Norwich fan but England are a very close second, I used to go to England games at Wembly back in the 70''s but never had enough money to follow them abroad.

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[quote user="In Dubious Battle "][quote user="Trent Canary"]IDB - Thats fair enough, but as per my last post, if England were to win the world cup would you take any pleasure from it or join in the celebrations? Or would you not be particularly bothered by it?  If the latter then fair enough, if the former then that would be my issue with all this.
[/quote]

Thats a fair point and if I am to answer it with 100% honesty I don''t know, perhaps if England perform brilliantly and get to the final I will get swept up in the excitement and find something that makes me want to support then team. Of course that would make me a massive hypocrite.

In reality I don''t think it would happen I remember every tournament since Italia 1990 (which as a child I must confess I did follow England) by Euro 96 I had largely lost interest. I have neither been elated at victories or disappointed by defeat at any of the subsequent tournamnets. I watched the 5-1 win over Germany, but that night for me is only memorable because I broke my leg later that evening, I was unaffected emotionally by the result.

So in answer to your question no I don''t think so. You have my word that if England do well and I ''jump on the bandwagon'' I will ressurect this thread and confess, I am not too proud to admit when I am wrong.
[/quote]

I think I am very similar to you in this, I can''t place my finger on any particular reason why, but I just don''t get excited by England games; I do however get excited when watching some other national teams play, although it is rarely consistant. I guess I see international football as an exhibition rather than something you support like you would Norwich or another club team, it seems almost unreal. This is probably caused by the long gaps between international games of any meaning, it is hard to get excited by England vs Andorra.

I think Euro ''96 was a real turning point for me, I just didn''t feel the same levels of enjoyment of watching England beat Scotland as I did when watching the Czech v Portugal game. I guess it was due to seeing players that you don''t get to see week in, week out on MOTD.

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[quote user="Arthur Whittle"]Your point about age may well be a good one even though it doesn''t make a lot of sense. The world has changed greatly since I was a kid and I''m guessing I''m a fair bit younger than you (and a lot younger than Arthur ). What does being English mean to young fans today? Age is the question that needs to be looked at on this debate. So to those on this debate, who will be supporting anyone but England.........how old are you??? The answers might lay in that question........[/quote]

 

41 here and hubby 53

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As a side point I would be interested to hear your opinion of who played better football in league 1 than us last season?

Southampton? Millwall? Swindon?

At times we looked great, but that slowly turned into win at any cost.....dont get me wrong, i want to win, and dont care if we do it stylishly {like Colchester away} or boring {Hartlepool - time wasting 2-1 up at home to hartlepool?, Exeter, etc}.......Im not slagging Lambert, he had a job to do, promotion, he achieved that, so im not fussed that sometimes the football wasnt pretty.

To be honest In Dubious battle or Say Hello To The Angels {why the name change?}.....I dont understand how you can have a feeling of being proud and norfolk, not proud and english...........perhaps something happened that changed this???....I dont know you may have personal reasons that are none of my business.

All I will say, as another poster pointed out, is that if England are in the world cup final....I have no doubt ALL the people supporting other nations, will suddenly turn to the most patriotic person in england, with over the top st georges bunting flags, car flags, england shirts, wigs and face paint.......funny what a bit of success can do to people....................fair play In Dubious, if we do get to the final and say its England I would be interested to see how many from this thread saying they wont support England....suddenly pop up a thread called say "England in the final!!!} and start gettingall patriotic.....

I also think, like another poster that age is a big factor.........obviously im older than many on here, maybe the oldest of all, but say 20-50 years ago, to not support England was unheard of......yes we won the world cup in 66, but before that people were proud to be english.....I think society, for whatever reason has changed over the years.........ive followed England proudly, our best performence abroad 1990, went to evry game, to places like Albania....ive loved it and wouldnt change a minute of it.............thats one thing I will say......maybe you have to have gone to an England away game to feel the buzz....England at home, yes I want them to win, but the atmosphere is hit and miss....England away, you have die hard England followers, who scrape together money by any means to support their country........England away games have given me a bigger buzz than any, and I do mean any {maybe not the milk cup semi v scum} Norwich game.......Turin, italy 90, semi against West Germany, yes we lost on penaltys, but that feeling of pride that not has never been matched at a Norwich game...........Just being honest....................give it a go, its not the racist skin head thugs at England away games anymore, thats the past, and despite the press waiting in the wings to film any smashed pint glass....it really isnt anything like the press make out.....the press and news teams, want to sell papers and people to watch their programmes......pictures of England fans sitting,drinking, enjoying the atmosphere, doesnt sell papers or entice people to watch programmes....

trust me, do what you can to take in an England away game, then come back and tell me how you felt....everyone I know has been scepticle of going to England away games.....but once they go they are hooked........

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Arthur your appraisal of following England is spot on. It seems most on here are basing their views on what is written in the News of the World!!

Been following England home and away (done about 40 aways) for about 12 years now and the away games are like a drug simply addictive visiting cracking places with good mates for a good laugh as well as some memorable games of football (5-1 in Munich, 3-2 against the Argies in Geneva, 5-1 in Zagreb etc). Have also met a load of top people including many Norwich on my travels.

For the record i am a S/T holder at Norwich as well have been for 23 years, done about 1000 games and been to 94 differnet grounds.

Club or Country? - Don''t need to choose as

i don''t have too, England World Cup win or Norwich Championship win? Hopefully both but either would do.

Can never understand an Englishman not being patriotic or not wanting England to win but each to their own!!

Got a 10 day trip and tickets for Semi Final and Final in SA and can''t wait.

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I see where you are coming from RE: some of our performances towards the end of the season, but I do think our general performance and finishing for the bulk of the season were a cut above. However I only go to away games so must confess to forming my judgment without seeing any of the action from Carrow Road. 2 reasons for the name change, firstly it was a song title from a band I no longer really like, but more importantly I got a bit sick of having my name shortened to SHTTA for obvious reasons. Was gonna make an announcement type thread about it as I know some people on here don''t like sudden name changes, but I didn''t think I was that well known on here for people to notice or care. You may well be right and I have said if its the case I will own up to becoming a hypocrite. I spent much of my teenage years living in France and Spain perhaps for me that is why I never developed a deep attachment to England, even now if I do venture away from Norfolk other than to follow city it is usually to Europe I go as thats where the bulk of my friends and family live. I think that your devotion to England is honourable and I certainly don''t seek to critisise. The simple fact is I cannot force myself to have an attachment to England as a whole or the football team, it is how it is, kinda out of my hands if that makes sense. Good luck to England in the world cup, I certainly don''t wish to see them loose, thats as far as i can go. If they face Spain/Brazil/Argentina in the final? Well my feelings will probably depend on who I feel has played the best football over the tournament or perhaps who deserves it on the day.

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Follow Norwich and England everywhere, where finances permit.

So many of you feel no national pride. You all seem to follow the reports by The Mirror and The Sun and speak with no expwerience. The stereotype England fan is in your mind now due to rubbish from the tabloids, and cut material, to suit the story, by news teams.

I enjoy following England, as much as Norwich, addictive, brilliant experience. Perhaps even more than Norwich.

You cant slate all England fans, because some of you have seen a few flare ups down Riverside after an England game.

I wonder if the same people who are put off supporting England because of fans behaviour down Prince Of Wales Road and Riverside, have ever been down there on a normal Friday or Saturday night? It kicks off all weekend down that way, England playing or not.

To be English, a football fan, and not support England is f#cking pathetic.

I agree with what Whittle says about England away games. Do one and you will understand, instead of sitting back passing judgment via Ceefax.

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[quote user="Patriot15"]Arthur your appraisal of following England is spot on. It seems most on here are basing their views on what is written in the News of the World!! Been following England home and away (done about 40 aways) for about 12 years now and the away games are like a drug simply addictive visiting cracking places with good mates for a good laugh as well as some memorable games of football (5-1 in Munich, 3-2 against the Argies in Geneva, 5-1 in Zagreb etc). Have also met a load of top people including many Norwich on my travels. For the record i am a S/T holder at Norwich as well have been for 23 years, done about 1000 games and been to 94 differnet grounds. Club or Country? - Don''t need to choose as i don''t have too, England World Cup win or Norwich Championship win? Hopefully both but either would do. Can never understand an Englishman not being patriotic or not wanting England to win but each to their own!! Got a 10 day trip and tickets for Semi Final and Final in SA and can''t wait.[/quote]

Good man [Y]

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[quote user="Millo"]To be English, a football fan, and not support England is f#cking pathetic.[/quote]Oh dear God I''m pathetic. The shame of it. [:''(]

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[quote user="Millo"]Follow Norwich and England everywhere, where finances permit.

So many of you feel no national pride. You all seem to follow the reports by The Mirror and The Sun and speak with no expwerience. The stereotype England fan is in your mind now due to rubbish from the tabloids, and cut material, to suit the story, by news teams.

I enjoy following England, as much as Norwich, addictive, brilliant experience. Perhaps even more than Norwich.

You cant slate all England fans, because some of you have seen a few flare ups down Riverside after an England game.

I wonder if the same people who are put off supporting England because of fans behaviour down Prince Of Wales Road and Riverside, have ever been down there on a normal Friday or Saturday night? It kicks off all weekend down that way, England playing or not.

To be English, a football fan, and not support England is f#cking pathetic.

I agree with what Whittle says about England away games. Do one and you will understand, instead of sitting back passing judgment via Ceefax.[/quote]Great post, but thinking this through some more, I''d argue that you cannot actually "opt out" from supporting your country, anyway.Everybody is born with a nationality, whether they like it or not. We are all de facto fans of our national sides. Pretending otherwise is self-defeating and, as you say, rather sad.

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