Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
RichT - The Biscuit

One mans scrap, another mans gold?!?

Recommended Posts

Read a lot but don''t post much but thought I would comment on some interesting stuff on here.......

If there is one thing certain about life then it''s that no two men (women) are the same and that''s the same with opinions.

What made me type this is the debates that everyone has about players that we are linked with and whether we should consider because they have been released, ie Stephen Elliott or playing for a team that has been relegated, ie Tommy Spurr. Link this into the other post about Dickson Etuhu and you can also see that some people thought he was good here and others not, look at him now, Europa Final and probably the biggest game of his life (apart from scoring against the Scum of course.......)

So, the point of my post is this, just because a player has not performed at a club does not make them a bad player, there can be a number of reasons why it doesn''t work for them and because of this I think that any payer who has been deemed good enough for Premiership/Championship should be considered.

Couple of simple examples to prove a point......Darren Huckerby, couldn''t get a look in at Man City when they were poor yet he comes he and arguably the most high profile and loved player in recent years, and in the same way Diego Forlan, couldn''t hit a cow''s ass with someone elses banjo let alone his, but since he left he has been consistently one of the top scores in Spain.

Having said all of that, everyone is entitled to their opinion and I for one am fascinated to read them!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Plenty of our players have been good for us and rubbish elsewhere - Dale Gordon and Robert Fleck to name two. I can also remember Norwich letting a teenage Dion Dublin go....

All players have a certain natural level but whether we think of them as ''good'' depends entirely on whether we play to their strengths at that time

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Absolutely.

Oli Johnson, at Stockport who were clearly going down months ago, seen by Lambert as a future star, Stockport fans view is a waste of space and a lazy b''stard

My personal view on our loanees is that I think they could all do a job and I think pace is hard to play in any league and Elliott seems to have a bucketload, and you don''t get international caps if you don''t have some sort of talent!?!? - Although having said that I can actually think of a few that have appeared in England shirts and you have to wonder how, roll in Carlton Palmer............

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The only problem with the loanee''s is that you can''t solely rely on them, ala Glenn Rodent. A select few such as this season is fine, but Roeder completely overdid it to the point where we had more loan players than fully contracted ones. You need permanent players who are not only settled but actually want to play for the club. Whilst I don''t question a loan player''s desire to do well, they basically use the club as a stepping stone. Now with one or two players, this isn''t an issue. But when you have a near enough full squad of players who really don''t want to be there or treat Norwich as the costa del colney, then you''ve got a real problem on your hands. There''s a noticeable spark missing and a lack of fight.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sorry, I was more referring to keeping the loanees, ie Rose and Elliott.

Agree though, when they don''t fight the fight because their real club is elsewhere then I don''t want too many of them. Not something I think can be said about this years loanees as I think they have all showed commitment

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

[quote user="RichT - The Biscuit"]Sorry, I was more referring to keeping the loanees, ie Rose and Elliott. Agree though, when they don''t fight the fight because their real club is elsewhere then I don''t want too many of them. Not something I think can be said about this years loanees as I think they have all showed commitment[/quote]

I am not sure about keeping Elliot. Its fair to say that Elliot, Johnson and McDonald are a similiar kind of striker in my opinion. However I wouldn''t regard Elliot as an improvement upon either and since they are the men in possession they are the ones who will be staying.

As for Rose. He has been solid and the long throw is an added bonus. Is he any better than Wiggins who seems to have been exceptional at Bournemouth? I don''t know. Obviously Lambert has seen something he really dislikes in training. If so then Rose would be fine by me as cover for Drury. We have to accept Drury is still one of the best left backs in the championship so most other left backs will represent a step down in quality.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
"Whilst I don''t question a loan player''s desire to do well"

One of the dangers of loanees is they mostly don''t see their future at the club they have been loaned to.

Quite a few here have ''knuckled down'' to what Lambert wanted as have new arrivals. If loanees are brought in as short term ''fill up'' they can often bring the baggage that caused them to be loaned out and know ultimately they are not depenedant on the loaning club for their wages.

I think it should be understood why the loans system is used. If you have a certain amount of money for a season you will want to spend that on the best possible players. If you cannot be sure of having the same budget the following season you do not have the option of signing players on two or three year contracts - hence it has to be the short term loan.

Unfortunately we will never really know what goes on behind the scenes and what financial constraints managers are under.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
This is something I''ve never understood, the complaint that loan players don''t give a toss.

If you are young and sent out on loan to a lower league club, does that not indicate you have potiential? Why would you not give a rat''s bum and just go through the motions for your temporary club? The reward of being brought back to start seems pretty significant. Either do well there and come back to bigger wages and higher level or go there and suck and get cut, demoted, dropped or traded to an even lower level club (since you played poorly for the one you got loaned to).

If my dream was to play pro footie and make tons of money, but I got loaned to NCFC, I''d want to impress the managers at my club and NCFC so I could earn a big paycheck the next season from either one of them.

Granted, plenty of loans suck, but is that not because they suck in general? The home club dropped them to see if they could perfomr elsewhere, but the receiving club gets nothing for the, what is the payoff for that???????????? Who would want them after that? Certainly not anyone willing to pay even more in wages, I would think.

2 years ago, we were all ready to dump C Martin, but he shone at Luton and has shone for us this season, and now there is rumor of higher level clubs wanting him. Had he been a waste at Luton since he was on loan there, what would have been the payoff for him?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think that Lambert''s comments in the papers yesterday about loanees indicate that he is not going to have more than 2 or 3 in the squad.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Two or three loanees is about right, especially if one is Forster.

Norwich City, of all clubs, should be well aware of over-reliance on the loan system. Many more players have failed whilst on loan with us than have succeeded. None has come cheaply. Some have, IMHO, paid a big part in our DECLINE since Peter Grant''s reign, rather than the opposite. Loanees contributed to our debt and our relegation.

PL is right. Treat loanees with caution. Use the system , as was done when Spillane and Martin were lent out and the likes of Ched Evans brought in. Do not let it, or some of these half-hearted players, use you.

The whole system eats money. We cannot afford expensive loanees poncing around for a few meaningless months or agents living it up on the commission we have paid them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Loans - it all depends on the players attitudes;  if they have a desire to learn and progress or reignite their career then  they work well for everyone/   If its to simply releive the boredom of not playing elsewhere then we dont want them.  

People have criticised Bentley.  The issue was expectation - the fans and manager expected him to be able to give us consistent quality from  the start of the season.  How many 21 yo with NO competetitve experience can give that?   Like Bertrand they both worked and learnt enormously while here.  And both gave strong committed performances on the pitch.  Bentley once back in teh frame was a Norwich player from the Manure game onwards.  His outlook improved and he learnt the need to graft and earn respect that was clouding the talent that was evident early season for us.  His arrogance became toned down.  Had we planned to use him sparingly to start with he would and did become a major part of our team.

The worst are the likes of Sibierski,  no committment, here to take the money.

Its all down to attitude.  And god knows there were as many players in last years squad who gave less effort and committment than some loaness.

Its never the status of the contract that determines a players ability on the pitch;  its the desire in the heart and mind,  everytime.

 

And that also explains why some players excel at one club rather than another,  it feels right, the style of play suits and the manager knows how to get the best from them.  I agree with the OP.  I have seen enough signings convert from awful to wonderful AND vice versa when joining my club.   Its not about their past record;  its the time of their career, how they fit in, their drive to succeed (the desire to be the best he can every time he plays is the one attribute of David Beckhams that is truly world class) and how they work within the team that counts.

Forster - an unknown loanee;  works hard and is a success

Elliott - proven at a higher level;  committed - average success

Cureton - loves the club,  past his best,  unsuccessful signing

Wiggins - potential, not come on just not worked out

Oli - rejuvenated by a move of club 

    

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...