Bargains Bargain Bargains

[Dr. Ink 0]

Seems to me this summer will be a bit different on the transfer front. More and more clubs are in financial difficulties and are offloading players either due to expired contracts or for nominal fees. Doc being the perfect example. A fine CB with a proven track record currently clubless. In someways it is picking up other clubs castoffs, but there will be plenty of bargains out there. The wages will always be an issue but this is easier to manage over time than having to stump up large initial transfer fees. I have faith we will get a stronger squad through the summer without breaking the bank. Of course other clubs will also do the same, so it will be down to the managers to get the best out of the players. Something PL seems to be very good at!

I hope we will stay within touching distance of the playoffs next year, but my head tells me we will be no better than mid-table.

[Old Shuck 183]

You''re right. There has been a lot of negative reaction to Doc''s release, but its the same at other clubs as well-you can tell that by the reaction on here, invariably a club will release a player, just as we have with the Doc, and we''re all over the name of that player like a rash, "he''d be a great signing" etc etc- Richard Chaplow and Jason Koumas are just two that have been mentioned in that way.

They''re both good players, so why have their clubs released them? Because of their ability-or lack of?-or because of the costs involved in offering them new deals?

We now note that Preston are the latest club to be experiencing real financial difficulties-which explains their decision to release Chaplow, and, another good player, in Chris Sedgewick.

Doc would have not come cheap, and would not, I suspect, accepted a new deal with a salary he might reasonably expect to get somewhere else-and a signing on fee as well. More and more clubs are also signing younger players with the added "insurance" of them having a "resale fee"-something which we might not have got with Doc, but sure as hell might with the likes of Johnson and Whitbread.

For that reason, I wouldn''t expect Russell to stay either.

Its those young, ambitious "hungry" players who are the focus now, that, and those coming through the ranks. Thats why, and I was one advocating it, we won''t be looking at players like Chaplow either. And that is why the Doc has gone. Time to move on.

[Don,tPanic 0]

I agree, two very good posts that make a lot of sense

[Yellowfuture 71]

A thoughfull post as ever Old  Shuck. The points your raise are logical and seem to describe what`s happening. The interesting point here for me is  if  your analysis is correct then where are the clubs that will be signing the likes of Doc (and I just use him as an example cos there are many others  the same) on the sort of wages he will expect. If he has  turned down a contract cos it is not valuable enough for him, and I dont know if this is the case, but if he has then where does anyone in his position, his age, coming from Div 3 expect to get a better deal. Perhaps the time has finally come, thank goodness, when average players are going to have to lower their expectations, and those that dont may find themselves struggling for a job. 

[chicken 0]

[quote user="Old Shuck"]You''re right. There has been a lot of negative reaction to Doc''s release, but its the same at other clubs as well-you can tell that by the reaction on here, invariably a club will release a player, just as we have with the Doc, and we''re all over the name of that player like a rash, "he''d be a great signing" etc etc- Richard Chaplow and Jason Koumas are just two that have been mentioned in that way. They''re both good players, so why have their clubs released them? Because of their ability-or lack of?-or because of the costs involved in offering them new deals? We now note that Preston are the latest club to be experiencing real financial difficulties-which explains their decision to release Chaplow, and, another good player, in Chris Sedgewick. Doc would have not come cheap, and would not, I suspect, accepted a new deal with a salary he might reasonably expect to get somewhere else-and a signing on fee as well. More and more clubs are also signing younger players with the added "insurance" of them having a "resale fee"-something which we might not have got with Doc, but sure as hell might with the likes of Johnson and Whitbread. For that reason, I wouldn''t expect Russell to stay either. Its those young, ambitious "hungry" players who are the focus now, that, and those coming through the ranks. Thats why, and I was one advocating it, we won''t be looking at players like Chaplow either. And that is why the Doc has gone. Time to move on.[/quote]

Really? PL has said he wants Russell to stay.

I think its more a case of who are the bigger earners and who can we afford to loose. Cureton has gone as well and him and Doherty must have been two of the bigger earners at the club. If we are looking to bring one or two players in other than Rose I should imagine we also want to keep the wages down as much as possible. If we are looking at lower league clubs then the wages the players will want wont be as much as perhaps an ex prem championship player would be.

As for resale fee, thats a tough one. Supposedly a player in their prime is aged 26-28. You sign someone aged 28 and give them a two year deal its pretty certain that their re-sale value may not be great. When you sign a 21/22 year old you take a risk in terms of consistancy and experience that a 26/27 year old may have. But you are right, if it pulls off you can make proffit on it.

It will be interesting to see what happens this summer and I have said to friends it will be as much about who Lambert lets go as to who he gets in. Seabourne moved in January so its unlikely he will be coming now. I am pretty sure it will be someone younger although both Spillane and R. Martin can play there.

[Old Shuck 183]

I would guess that, with that "resale" value, it doesn''t have to be a profit. Yes, that would be ideal-as in eventually selling Oli on for £3-£4 Million for example (*am not saying that will happen, but is an example of how that sort of purchase works out and pleases everyone*), indeed, maybe any sort of return would be preferred, if possible.

Lambert may well want Russell to stay, i know I hope he does, but, if the sums don''t work out, then, much as people would like him to stay arouund, it won''t happen, and, I am sure, Lambert appreciates that.

But true, its as much about who comes in as who goes out. There wil be changes in the coaching side of things as well; we await, for example, the appointment of our new chief scout (and thats a crucial signing in itself) and, with Crooky due to return to Australia -and maybe confirmation of that in next day or so?-someone to head up the reserves as well, would hope it will be Gossy, who was assisting Chippy towards the end of last season, though I think Iwan has thrown his hat into the ring for that one as well.

[Tangible Fixed Assets anyone? 0]

[quote user="Old Shuck"]someone to head up the reserves as well, .[/quote]

I thought we were not going to have a regular reserve league to play in next season.

[Bury Yellow 2]

An interesting thread and mayhave got the general wrong angle of where folks are coming from but I don''t buy this idea that the idea of Russell and Doc leaving means they are going to better clubs than us. Can you imaging Doc against some of the pacy strikers eg Lita. Ha Ha Ha

Simply, if Lambo thought they are so good that he needs them for a serious push to the premiership then McNasty et al would back him to the hilt.

Thing is, I don''t think he wants Doc and is not that bothered about Russell. If that is Lambo''s thinking then I back him!!

[Its only my opinion 0]

[quote user="Bury Yellow"]An interesting thread and mayhave got the general wrong angle of where folks are coming from but I don''t buy this idea that the idea of Russell and Doc leaving means they are going to better clubs than us. Can you imaging Doc against some of the pacy strikers eg Lita. Ha Ha Ha Simply, if Lambo thought they are so good that he needs them for a serious push to the premiership then McNasty et al would back him to the hilt. Thing is, I don''t think he wants Doc and is not that bothered about Russell. If that is Lambo''s thinking then I back him!![/quote]

You don''t know what lambert is thinking... I think doherty will struggle against some of the players in the championship.. But i also think he was the best centre back at the club! I don''t think the is a centre back in the championship that would not struggle with lita''s or earnshaws pace, if the was and if they can also pass out from the back, like people seem to think we want to replace doherty, i''m sorry but a pacey strong centre back that can play from the back are not going to be playing in the championship! They''ll be playing champions league.. maybe you''ll get someone with pace or someone that can pass from the back but we will not be getting a compleat centre back with pace, a good defensive brain, can takle,thats good in the air and that can play from the back.... the is a very limited amount of players with all these attributes,if the is one playing at championship level and they are avalible every single club in the championship is going to want them so i hope we have alot of money to spend because we will need it 

[Bury Yellow 2]

You make a reasonable case. My problem is, I can''t get out of my mind Doc''s performances other than this season.

He certainly benefited from excellent coaching and playing in a well organised team this term but where I differ from your view is that there are quite a few centre halfs of Championship quality that, based on Doc''s other seasons, are of a much better quality.

The underlying reason for my comments is the fear that we as ncfc supporters have almost lost the vision that our club must not, or cannot aim too high. Maybe it''s a fear of failure that we have been so use to.

This season has given us a launching pad and perhaps Lambo feels he must get better quailty on most positions to achieve his and the boards targets.

[chicken 0]

[quote user="Bury Yellow"]An interesting thread and mayhave got the general wrong angle of where folks are coming from but I don''t buy this idea that the idea of Russell and Doc leaving means they are going to better clubs than us. Can you imaging Doc against some of the pacy strikers eg Lita. Ha Ha Ha Simply, if Lambo thought they are so good that he needs them for a serious push to the premiership then McNasty et al would back him to the hilt. Thing is, I don''t think he wants Doc and is not that bothered about Russell. If that is Lambo''s thinking then I back him!![/quote]

The difference is Lambert has made statements about both players. One being that he has offered Russell a contract and would like to talk to him about it soon and the other being that Doherty has been released.

We don''t really know if Doherty went under his own steam, turning down a contract in the process or whether Lambert didn''t offer him a new one.

One thing that could have happened is that Doherty has signed a pre-contractual agreement which he could do from January - Lambert knew this which is why he bought Whitbread who was injured and may not have returned before the end of the season. It could be any number of things but what is for sure is that he has clearly indicated that he would prefer Russell to stay otherwise he wouldn''t bother saying what he has said.

 

[GJP 79]

[quote user="Bury Yellow"]You make a reasonable case. My problem is, I can''t get out of my mind Doc''s performances other than this season. He certainly benefited from excellent coaching and playing in a well organised team this term but where I differ from your view is that there are quite a few centre halfs of Championship quality that, based on Doc''s other seasons, are of a much better quality. The underlying reason for my comments is the fear that we as ncfc supporters have almost lost the vision that our club must not, or cannot aim too high. Maybe it''s a fear of failure that we have been so use to. This season has given us a launching pad and perhaps Lambo feels he must get better quailty on most positions to achieve his and the boards targets.[/quote]

I actually disagree.

I think we all want the best for our club, I''d be surprised if anyone has some kind of fear of failure or a reluctance to hope for (and want) better.

Gary Doherty is an absolutely fine Championship level defender. However, we''ve signed at a time when it was very likely the club was going to go one way and that was down. Now of course that decline isn''t his fault, however, it''s something that he will always be linked to and some people will never see past it.

To begin with I wasn''t a Doherty fan. I heard what people said about a "clumsy, ginger oaf from Spurs" and he joined a team that was going to struggle in that league. From the start I was swayed against him.

However, after watching him play regularly I started to realise well hang on...he wins pretty much everything that comes at him in the air and on the floor, he puts himself in the way of things that''ll hurt, he rarely gets done for pace, he reads the game well, his touch and control are good for a defender and he rarely gives the ball away. Add that to the fact Spurs saw he had enough ability for them to buy him and add that to the fact he was bought by our most successful manager in recent times and all of a I sudden I knew we had a good player on our hands.

Now, football wise, Gary Doherty is a much better player and defender than Malky Mackay ever was. Malky was a simple and straightforward head it and clear it away defender. Limited with the ball. But he, of course, scored a memorable goal or two and was part of the team that got us promoted. He was associated with the good times. But a better player than Doherty, he was not.

Taking into account that we signed Doherty on the back of promotion to the Premier League when we had a bit more status and probably a bit more money if Paul Lambert can now sign us a better defender than him then he will have done extremely well.

Perhaps Lambert thinks he can get someone in with a few more years on their side and who commands a smaller wage. Fair play to him if he can do it without any negative consequences to the team.

 

 

 

 

[morty 0]

[quote user="GJP"]

[quote user="Bury Yellow"]You make a reasonable case. My problem is, I can''t get out of my mind Doc''s performances other than this season. He certainly benefited from excellent coaching and playing in a well organised team this term but where I differ from your view is that there are quite a few centre halfs of Championship quality that, based on Doc''s other seasons, are of a much better quality. The underlying reason for my comments is the fear that we as ncfc supporters have almost lost the vision that our club must not, or cannot aim too high. Maybe it''s a fear of failure that we have been so use to. This season has given us a launching pad and perhaps Lambo feels he must get better quailty on most positions to achieve his and the boards targets.[/quote]

I actually disagree.

I think we all want the best for our club, I''d be surprised if anyone has some kind of fear of failure or a reluctance to hope for (and want) better.

Gary Doherty is an absolutely fine Championship level defender. However, we''ve signed at a time when it was very likely the club was going to go one way and that was down. Now of course that decline isn''t his fault, however, it''s something that he will always be linked to and some people will never see past it.

To begin with I wasn''t a Doherty fan. I heard what people said about a "clumsy, ginger oaf from Spurs" and he joined a team that was going to struggle in that league. From the start I was swayed against him.

However, after watching him play regularly I started to realise well hang on...he wins pretty much everything that comes at him in the air and on the floor, he puts himself in the way of things that''ll hurt, he rarely gets done for pace, he reads the game well, his touch and control are good for a defender and he rarely gives the ball away. Add that to the fact Spurs saw he had enough ability for them to buy him and add that to the fact he was bought by our most successful manager in recent times and all of a I sudden I knew we had a good player on our hands.

Now, football wise, Gary Doherty is a much better player and defender than Malky Mackay ever was. Malky was a simple and straightforward head it and clear it away defender. Limited with the ball. But he, of course, scored a memorable goal or two and was part of the team that got us promoted. He was associated with the good times. But a better player than Doherty, he was not.

Taking into account that we signed Doherty on the back of promotion to the Premier League when we had a bit more status and probably a bit more money if Paul Lambert can now sign us a better defender than him then he will have done extremely well.

Perhaps Lambert thinks he can get someone in with a few more years on their side and who commands a smaller wage. Fair play to him if he can do it without any negative consequences to the team.

 

 

 

 

[/quote]I don''t think I have seen a fairer, more balanced assessment of the man, good work.[Y]

[improper fraction 0]

I think wages and transfer fees will be major factors when it coms to offering new deals to players and not just for our club either. With finances tight this method for keeping/releasing/signing players is being replicated in other fields of business.For example many schools, when filling teaching posts that have become vacant for various reasons, will more often than not employ a newly qualified teacher over an experienced teacher because they are cheaper. Obviously the NQT must have other points in their favour - fitting in with the current staff, supportive of school ethos, have taught successfully on placements etc - but impact on the school''s budget will be a high priority.There are going to be plenty of players available over the coming weeks and it''s going to be a buyer''s market as the managers will be able to have the luxury to pick and choose their targets on their terms over the negotiating table.

[I am a Banana 0]

[="Tangible Fixed Assets anyone?"]

[="Old Shuck"]someone to head up the reserves as well, .[

I thought we were not going to have a regular reserve league to play in next season.

 

 

were not.