Its all down to the rest of us to stop the club issuing life bans!

[fire3822 0]

Is it just me or is this just a little bit sinister ''56 camera''s,23 of those are pan tilt & zoom (PTZ) with full recording facilities,police video)'' etc

It''s not just Norwich but the whole Country has become obsessed with this degree of surveilance.It is indicative of the level of control this government would like over the people & a ''dob them in'' culture which has generated a whole new industry to penalise the majority with threats of financial penalties for the most trivial of ''offences''.It has become a nanny state with officials saying ''you can''t do this,can''t do that,thats not good for you'' etc & I think it just sucks the spontaneity & life out of people,making them too afraid to do anything.

I''ve seen the ''Youtube'' video of the ''invasion'' & it looked innocuous as far as the fans went.The most disturbing thing for me was seeing the police filming people & one of the stewards rather cowardly trying to trip somebody over.I don''t think the football club are to blame as they are just jumping on the ''Labour'' bandwagon the same as everybody else but interestingly if you''ve ever read 1984 by George Orwell,the similarities are startling.

Take a look at the definition of ''Orwellian'' on ''Wiki'' & decide whether you think there are similarities.

Norwich City,Labour & officials all over the Country. . . . . . . . . . 1984 was not supposed to be an instruction manual.

[nutty nigel 7,513]

[quote user="Mr.Carrow"]

I`ve been off enjoying my life nutty.

I would hardly call that thread "many people", but fair enough, in a few cases you have a point.  I would suggest that some people have missed the point as what McNally has actually said was "There`s nothing wrong with being nice, but we`re not going to be pushovers any more".  I haven`t seen anywhere that he doesn`t regard us as a family club and bar one poster on that thread i haven`t read anyone claiming that.

[/quote]

I thought what McNally actually said was "We won''t be soft. There''s a difference between being nice and a pushover."

While I have been enjoying my life I haven''t missed your anti club spin one little bit[:|]

Why do you do it?

 

[nutty nigel 7,513]

Can''t agree with much of this fire3822. I think the reason the police videod the pitch invasion was because it had the potential for offences to be committed. I think it''s common practice for this type of thing. If the copper with the camera waits for the offence to be committed he would miss filming it.

Where I agree with you is that in that video I saw the other day linked from here and the act of trying to trip someone up. To me that didn''t look like a steward but I could be wrong. Stewards are surely trained in how to deal with these incidents and sticking out a leg to trip someone surely would not be part of that training. If that wasn''t a steward, as I suspect, then he should be warned not to do it again.

At the end of the day cameras are probably a neccessary evil. The reason we have them now is because we have the technology now. I maintain that if you act responsibly you have little to fear from these cameras and you never know but oned day you may be glad of them. If during even a good natured pitch invasion you had your pocket picked or something worse you may be glad to have the police check the video for evidence of this crime. Cameras are the best deterrent for finding the few bad people who hide among the majority as a cover to do what they want.

 

[fire3822 0]

I agree that a degree of surveillance is a good thing for the reasons you have described but personally I think that it is at saturation point & the sheer proliferation of video camera''s spying on people''s every move is an unhealthy way to go.

I have supported Norwich since 1975/76 & although I haven''t been to every game & only manage perhaps a dozen games a season since I''ve had children,I''m proud to say that I have never seen trouble at ANY game I''ve been to, either caused by or aimed at Norwich fans & that includes a lot of travelling during the 80''s.Banter yes,but actual trouble no & I think 53 camera''s at a family friendly football ground is overkill.This surveillance industry has grown in recent years & I''m sure will continue to grow as it employs more & more people.I don''t think that the amount of criminals has grown in correlation to this,so therefore,in my opinion it is unnecessary to have so much.It looked like a steward to me or other official.The main reason for replying to this particular post is that I don''t think it''s fair that the fans on the pitch should be penalised especially following the scenes at Luton or Sheffield this week,it really pales into insignificance.

[Mr.Carrow 376]

[quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="Mr.Carrow"]

I`ve been off enjoying my life nutty.

I would hardly call that thread "many people", but fair enough, in a few cases you have a point.  I would suggest that some people have missed the point as what McNally has actually said was "There`s nothing wrong with being nice, but we`re not going to be pushovers any more".  I haven`t seen anywhere that he doesn`t regard us as a family club and bar one poster on that thread i haven`t read anyone claiming that.

[/quote]

I thought what McNally actually said was "We won''t be soft. There''s a difference between being nice and a pushover."

While I have been enjoying my life I haven''t missed your anti club spin one little bit[:|]

Why do you do it?

 

[/quote]

Never said it was a direct quote nutty.  How the hell is it "anti-club spin" though? 

[grantroederdisaster 0]

Fair enough cause the club don''t want to ban the fans really!

 

Having been involved in many pitch invasions over the years when it was seen as no big deal, I can''t say a lot but if they don''t want it and tell you not to do it then one can''t be annoyed if they get punished!

[Mello Yello 2,282]

[quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="Mr.Carrow"]

I`ve been off enjoying my life nutty.

I would hardly call that thread "many people", but fair enough, in a few cases you have a point.  I would suggest that some people have missed the point as what McNally has actually said was "There`s nothing wrong with being nice, but we`re not going to be pushovers any more".  I haven`t seen anywhere that he doesn`t regard us as a family club and bar one poster on that thread i haven`t read anyone claiming that.

[/quote]

I thought what McNally actually said was "We won''t be soft. There''s a difference between being nice and a pushover."

While I have been enjoying my life I haven''t missed your anti club spin one little bit[:|]

Why do you do it?

 

[/quote]

[yellow blood 0]

[quote user="fire3822"]Is it just me or is this just a little bit sinister ''56 camera''s,23 of those are pan tilt & zoom (PTZ) with full recording facilities,police video)'' etc It''s not just Norwich but the whole Country has become obsessed with this degree of surveilance.It is indicative of the level of control this government would like over the people & a ''dob them in'' culture which has generated a whole new industry to penalise the majority with threats of financial penalties for the most trivial of ''offences''.It has become a nanny state with officials saying ''you can''t do this,can''t do that,thats not good for you'' etc & I think it just sucks the spontaneity & life out of people,making them too afraid to do anything. I''ve seen the ''Youtube'' video of the ''invasion'' & it looked innocuous as far as the fans went.The most disturbing thing for me was seeing the police filming people & one of the stewards rather cowardly trying to trip somebody over.I don''t think the football club are to blame as they are just jumping on the ''Labour'' bandwagon the same as everybody else but interestingly if you''ve ever read 1984 by George Orwell,the similarities are startling. Take a look at the definition of ''Orwellian'' on ''Wiki'' & decide whether you think there are similarities. Norwich City,Labour & officials all over the Country. . . . . . . . . . 1984 was not supposed to be an instruction manual.[/quote]

 

Have you only just realised that almost every time you venture outside your front door, you are being monitored by cameras? Britain has the most surveillance camera''s (including shops etc.) in the western world. With regard to the camera''s at Carrow Road, they aren''t all used for monitoring bad behaviour. For instance if there was someone taken ill in the crowd, they can be "found" and reached quicker.

 

Also the person tripping or attempting to trip someone in the pitch "invasion" was a first aider...perhaps he was trying to justify his job?

[nutty nigel 7,513]

[quote user="Mr.Carrow"][quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="Mr.Carrow"]

I`ve been off enjoying my life nutty.

I would hardly call that thread "many people", but fair enough, in a few cases you have a point.  I would suggest that some people have missed the point as what McNally has actually said was "There`s nothing wrong with being nice, but we`re not going to be pushovers any more".  I haven`t seen anywhere that he doesn`t regard us as a family club and bar one poster on that thread i haven`t read anyone claiming that.

[/quote]

I thought what McNally actually said was "We won''t be soft. There''s a difference between being nice and a pushover."

While I have been enjoying my life I haven''t missed your anti club spin one little bit[:|]

Why do you do it?

 

[/quote]

Never said it was a direct quote nutty.  How the hell is it "anti-club spin" though? 

[/quote]

Well no Mr Carrow, you didn''t say it was a direct quote. You just stated that it was what McNally actually said and then put it in quotation marks: -

 

I would suggest that some people have missed the point as what McNally has actually said was "There`s nothing wrong with being nice, but we`re not going to be pushovers any more".

 

As for anti-club. Well to me spinning statements from the club to suit whatever point you are making at the time is anti-club.

 

[PurpleCanary 5,554]

[quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="Mr.Carrow"][quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="Mr.Carrow"]

I`ve been off enjoying my life nutty.

I would hardly call that thread "many people", but fair enough, in a few cases you have a point.  I would suggest that some people have missed the point as what McNally has actually said was "There`s nothing wrong with being nice, but we`re not going to be pushovers any more".  I haven`t seen anywhere that he doesn`t regard us as a family club and bar one poster on that thread i haven`t read anyone claiming that.

[/quote]

I thought what McNally actually said was "We won''t be soft. There''s a difference between being nice and a pushover."

While I have been enjoying my life I haven''t missed your anti club spin one little bit[:|]

Why do you do it?

 

[/quote]

Never said it was a direct quote nutty.  How the hell is it "anti-club spin" though? 

[/quote]

Well no Mr Carrow, you didn''t say it was a direct quote. You just stated that it was what McNally actually said and then put it in quotation marks: -

 

I would suggest that some people have missed the point as what McNally has actually said was "There`s nothing wrong with being nice, but we`re not going to be pushovers any more".

 

As for anti-club. Well to me spinning statements from the club to suit whatever point you are making at the time is anti-club.

 

[/quote]---

 

Nutty, I

admire you for carrying on but I gave up debating (or trying to debate) with

Mr.Carrow  because he seems to have no

conception of the need for truth and accuracy, and – as here - would simply

make up what seemed like direct quotes to support his “case” and presumably

would hope no-one would notice the sleight of hand.

 My all-time favourite came when he was

trying to prove that the triumvirate of new directors was now fully in charge –

which explained why things were going so well. One of his hobby horses. As

evidence he came up with this pretty damned conclusive direct quote from Alan

Bowkett:

‘Bowkett recently stated that "Me, McNally and Phillips are running the

club with the full consent of the majority shareholders".’

Unfortunately what Bowkett ACTUALLY said was:

“ Paul [Lambert], David and I are now running

the Football Club with the complete support of the substantial shareholders.”

Oh dear. Not quite the same, is it, boys and girls? Doesn’t quite back up the

argument. So  just delete Lambert and

insert Phillips. Simple. What’s in a name, after all?

[Mr.Carrow 376]

Purple, if i`m not making a direct quote i nearly always make that clear and i`m pretty sure i did so in that case.  I didn`t above because it was a rushed post- as this one is.  As for "hoping people wouldn`t notice", quite the opposite- i always assume that obsessives like nutty will jump on any mistake therefore am quite careful to be accurate.  If i get something wrong, point it out, it`s not difficult.  One thing i will never do is quote half a sentence to score a point as nutty has done in the past.  I`ve been told that the new board members appointed Lambert and are basically calling the shots (they can outvote the "old" board as i`m sure you`re aware).  The people who told me should know.  Whether others want to believe that is entirely up to them- i couldn`t give a monkeys.

[blahblahblah 2]

[quote]56 camera''s,23 of those are pan tilt & zoom (PTZ) with full

recording facilities,police video)'' etc...[/quote]And precisely how many of these cameras were used when there was a problem containing Leeds fans after that match ?  How many arrests have resulted ?Not defending "friendly" pitch invaders, but surely there''s a difference in intent here.

[PurpleCanary 5,554]

[quote user="Mr.Carrow"]Purple, if i`m not making a direct quote i nearly always make that clear and i`m pretty sure i did so in that case.[/quote]No, no, no. You gave it as a direct quote. I pulled what you posted directly off the thread in question. But even if it had been an indirect quote that would not in the slightest way explain how Stephan Phillips'' name got substituted for that of Paul Lambert. Bowkett said one thing; you quoted him as saying quite another.

[nutty nigel 7,513]

[quote user="Mr.Carrow"]Purple, if i`m not making a direct quote i nearly always make that clear and i`m pretty sure i did so in that case.  I didn`t above because it was a rushed post- as this one is.  As for "hoping people wouldn`t notice", quite the opposite- i always assume that obsessives like nutty will jump on any mistake therefore am quite careful to be accurate.  If i get something wrong, point it out, it`s not difficult.  One thing i will never do is quote half a sentence to score a point as nutty has done in the past.  I`ve been told that the new board members appointed Lambert and are basically calling the shots (they can outvote the "old" board as i`m sure you`re aware).  The people who told me should know.  Whether others want to believe that is entirely up to them- i couldn`t give a monkeys.[/quote]

Unfortunately for you Mr Carrow more posters will now see through your thinly disguised spin. You got away with it for so long because you were saying the things they wanted to hear. Now we are winning the fans around here like the club a bit more so look a little more closely at what you have to say.

Is it obsessive to take the time to post accurate information? Where''s this half a sentence that I quoted to score a point or did you make that up too?

 

[Mello Yello 2,282]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

[quote user="Mr.Carrow"]Purple, if i`m not making a direct quote i nearly always make that clear and i`m pretty sure i did so in that case.  I didn`t above because it was a rushed post- as this one is.  As for "hoping people wouldn`t notice", quite the opposite- i always assume that obsessives like nutty will jump on any mistake therefore am quite careful to be accurate.  If i get something wrong, point it out, it`s not difficult.  One thing i will never do is quote half a sentence to score a point as nutty has done in the past.  I`ve been told that the new board members appointed Lambert and are basically calling the shots (they can outvote the "old" board as i`m sure you`re aware).  The people who told me should know.  Whether others want to believe that is entirely up to them- i couldn`t give a monkeys.[/quote]

Unfortunately for you Mr Carrow more posters will now see through your thinly disguised spin. You got away with it for so long because you were saying the things they wanted to hear. Now we are winning the fans around here like the club a bit more so look a little more closely at what you have to say.

Is it obsessive to take the time to post accurate information? Where''s this half a sentence that I quoted to score a point or did you make that up too?

 

[/quote]

.....[8]"When I''m cleanin'' toilets"[8]

[Arthur Whittle 0]

Sounds a bit like emotional blackmail to me.....your fellow fans wont be punished as long as you dont celebrate on the pitch....if you do they will get life bans..........sounds a bit childish....also sounds a bit like an empty threat....meaning they dont actually know the majoority who went on the pitch......hardly a violent invasion was it???????

[Mr.Carrow 376]

[quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="Mr.Carrow"]Purple, if i`m not making a direct quote i nearly always make that clear and i`m pretty sure i did so in that case.

[/quote]

No, no, no. You gave it as a direct quote. I pulled what you posted directly off the thread in question. But even if it had been an indirect quote that would not in the slightest way explain how Stephan Phillips'' name got substituted for that of Paul Lambert. Bowkett said one thing; you quoted him as saying quite another.
[/quote]

If that`s the case then you should have made me look a prat on the relevant thread then.  As you can see even on this thread i haven`t got a problem with being shown if i`ve got something wrong.  In all honesty i can`t be ar*ed these days to trawl back through articles and posts to get things word-perfect for a group of people who would never,ever change their opinion one iota anyway.  Events have proved them wrong, and i think they know it.....

I remember when my friend K.Roads got branded "anti-club" amongst other more unsavoury stuff for daring to politely call for a change of direction at the 2007 AGM.  Turns out he had a point.  I remember when Bowkett`s open letter reflected alot of the "anti-club" criticism on here so i guess according to some peoples "logic" we now have an anti-club club Chairman....[:|]  I remember when calls on here for a modicum of ambition- ie. to spend at least as much on players as you receive in the transfer market- were branded "anti-club" and we were told hell and damnation lay that way.  Funny, people seem pretty happy with the result of that approach this season..... So, in summary, certain people want to celebrate an approach they argued against all along whilst continuing to slate those who proposed it!  Ah, the wonderful, logical world of the Pinkun messageboard [:D]

And nutty, you quoted a sentence by me from 2004 whilst conveniently lopping off the last 10 or so words thereby totally changing the meaning and context.  Is the old infallible nutty memory slipping?

[Henry 0]

Any chance of taking the petty arguments to somewhere else guys? Its all getting a bit boring [:|]

[Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB 1,020]

Makes me laugh that a couple of happy people running aimlessly on the pitch for a couple of minutes is being compared by some posters with the mass disorder that occured at Luton and Sheff Wed. The statement from the club was amusing..."A pregnant woman in the crowd was distressed". I half expected to read on and see "and a police dog suffered a nasty chinese burn from a young fan, Veronica Postlethwaite aged 6 of Mile Cross was quoted as saying the dog looked at me funny so I did it"....

[Arthur Whittle 0]

Exactly Sons of Bo.

Also the statement "A pregnant woman in the crowd was distressed"....would you really take your wife/girlfriend to a game if she were pregnant, what with all the barging, shoving, and accidently tripping people over on the way to and from the game???

[morty 0]

what with all the barging, shoving, and accidently tripping people over

on the way to and from the game???Errrr, what?

[WeAreYellows49 0]

[quote user="morty"]what with all the barging, shoving, and accidently tripping people over on the way to and from the game???

Errrr, what?
[/quote]

 

I always thought we were a nice, polite and friendly club [:|]

[morty 0]

[quote user="WeAreYellows49"]

[quote user="morty"]what with all the barging, shoving, and accidently tripping people over on the way to and from the game???Errrr, what?[/quote]

 

I always thought we were a nice, polite and friendly club [:|]

[/quote]I have never witnessed or been involved in any of the above in all my time going to Carrow road lol.

[Arthur Whittle 0]

Are you serious? You have never seen this??? Do you honestly see Norwich fans leaving the ground in single file and a 1ft gap inbetween each person???

I must be going to a different ground??????????

[morty 0]

[quote user="Arthur Whittle"]Are you serious? You have never seen this??? Do you honestly see Norwich fans leaving the ground in single file and a 1ft gap inbetween each person???

I must be going to a different ground??????????[/quote]I never see pushing, shoving and tripping over people.[:|]

[Arthur Whittle 0]

Never had to push and shove your way out of the ground? Never seen people tripped over? Never seen seen people barging others out of the way on the bridge? Ok Morty I must be wrong, we all leave the ground 1 at a time, women and children 1st.......

[morty 0]

The fact is that Arthurs statement has actually highlighted exactly the opposite point he intended.In trying to say that a pregnant woman shouldn''t have been in that position raises the point that she was in that position because she saw no risk, and saw going to Carrow road as a safe environment to be in.Had it been an old person that was distressed would the claim that old people shouldn''t be there?

[morty 0]

[quote user="Arthur Whittle"]Never had to push and shove your way out of the ground? Never seen people tripped over? Never seen seen people barging others out of the way on the bridge? Ok Morty I must be wrong, we all leave the ground 1 at a time, women and children 1st.......[/quote]Frankly, no. No, can''t ever recall seeing someone tripped over either.You''re probably more at risk of that going shopping, maybe pregnant women should refrain from that too?

[Arthur Whittle 0]

Ok fine, you are right Morty, every game ive been to, ive walked single file, we dont celebrate goals we just stay in our seats and clap, the snakepit and Barclay dont all steam down the front when we score, nobody ever gets pushed on there way to or from the game, and in my many years of going i have never seen a single person knocked over....better now??...good....jesus wept.

[William Darby 0]

[quote user="morty"][quote user="Arthur Whittle"]Are you serious? You have never seen this??? Do you honestly see Norwich fans leaving the ground in single file and a 1ft gap inbetween each person???

I must be going to a different ground??????????[/quote]I never see pushing, shoving and tripping over people.[:|][/quote]I have, people who sit in the middle of rows.  When during a particularly good game they insist on racing off to the tea bar before everybody else.  While making everybody stand up to let their sweaty fat arses past.