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First Wizard

HOLT: Is Worthy Learning?.

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1st Half: Holt in, City are useless, and couldn''t string two passes together.

2nd Half: Holt substituted in favour of Helveg, City are a different team, and with luck, may have won.

A simplistic view?, hmm, maybe.

Of course, Leon replaced Brennan as well. But my point is this:

Up until 2 weeks ago, Worthy would have stuck with Holt, come hell or high water, now he''s being forced to substitute him. This to Worthy, would have been unthinkable, a few weeks ago.

Has the penny finally dropped?, and does Worthy now agree, with what the supporter''s have been saying for weeks now, that 3 lungs can''t cope with the premiership''s speed of thought and skill.

Holt''s a nice guy, and a great championship player, But I believe, and hope, that his premiership days are now numbered.

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Yeah, and last week first game without Holt... first win.....coincindence??? Hes been a good servant but time to hand over the reigns i think.

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[quote]Yeah, and last week first game without Holt... first win.....coincindence??? Hes been a good servant but time to hand over the reigns i think.[/quote]

You''re dead right there Rob, but its still sad, yes.

I''ve always had a soft spot for ''three lungs'', and Worthy has always admired someone who works hard. But as I said, you need a little bit more than that, in this league.

I think we saw yesterday, what Peter Raven has said all season, that Helveg is pure class.

I just hope, that this realisation hasn''t come too late for Helveg, and that he''s transferred in January, that would be a great mistake and a real shame, I feel.

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I dont think Mr W is learning - he is just getting more confusing

Holt in, Brennan in, Leon out.....Hucks up front.....take off Holt, take off Brennan, Helveg on, Leon on..... Hucks on the left

I''m sure he is making it up as he goes along now rather than having any sort of predetermined game plan.

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I disagree and think this is a far too simplistic view. The whole of the midfield was poor in the first half, are you telling me Mulryne or Bentley were better than Holt in the first half? We were better in the second half because was normally are, this is not the first time we have improved after the break irrespective of Holt playing or not. I thought Brennan was very average too. Seems like the simple option is to blame Holt for a poor first half from the whole team (thats 11 players if you didn;t know!). Also, i think Mackenzie had the biggest influence on this game for Norwich, not Helveg.

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Marty, I agree that the whole midfield was poor yesterday in the first half - I think we sat to deep, didn''t close players down quickly enough and made Birmingham look a much better side thn they actually are. I think Robbie Savage did an excellent job of unsettling our midfielders. So yes, to blame Holt is the easy was out - but at the end of the day we have to keep the ball better. Watching MOTD last night showed that almost every team in this division can play good, quick passing when they get the ball down. Unfortunately for us, Gary Holt takes about half an hour to get the ball under control. His passing isn''t good enough for this level. When Helveg came on, he didn''t do anything spectacular, but he did do the simple things well and we looked a much better team with him and Leon on the pitch.

It''s a shame - I, like most people on here, have a lot of respect and admiration for Holt - his workrate is second to none. But we need that extra bit of class in midfield that I''m afraid he just can''t bring.

On another note - how can Worthy claim that our lack of height at the back isn''t a problem? Heskey was winning the ball in the air for fun yesterday as Fleming and Charlton couldn''t get close. I haven''t been entirely convinced by Fleming this season, so maybe it''s time to take him out and either show some confidence in Gary Doherty or finally give Shackell the chance he deserves.

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Hurrah for 1st Wizard - he also knows that form is temporary and class is permanent. I remember it took Steeno a whole season to settle at Norwich. Sadly, I think the damage is already done and, come January, the Prince of Denmark will be an Odense player - our loss is most definitely their gain.

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Well said Tackleberry. I agree 200% regarding our pint sized defence as per my post on the ''Leave Helveg Alone'' thread. This needs to be sorted ASAP or we will be sorry! Its time for the Shack Attack!!!

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Peter - nice to see someone is following my ''form is temporary'' line  Quality will always out.

Hopefully once Worthy finally accepts that Holt is not up to scratch he will move onto the other huffer puffers and city will then start to fly up the table.  It may take a time for the penny to drop but worthy has always learnt from his mistakes in the past, its just that sometimes it takes him a while to see which decisions are wrong.  

As  far as Holt is concerned I still do not think that he should be written off completely.  He should remain a valuable squad member and we will know exactly what would get from him if he does play.   And if the worst happens and we should get relegated he will be a key player in the championship next season.

OTBC 

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Peter - nice to see someone is following my ''form is temporary'' line  Quality will always out.

Hopefully once Worthy finally accepts that Holt is not up to scratch he will move onto the other huffer puffers and city will then start to fly up the table.  It may take a time for the penny to drop but worthy has always learnt from his mistakes in the past, its just that sometimes it takes him a while to see which decisions are wrong.  

As  far as Holt is concerned I still do not think that he should be written off completely.  He should remain a valuable squad member and we will know exactly what would get from him if he does play.   And if the worst happens and we should get relegated he will be a key player in the championship next season.

OTBC 

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Not sure what the point about Worthy being confused is all about.  People on this board have been going on about how Brennan should get a start and how Huckerby should start up front because he is a striker not a winger for ages.  With the injury to McVeigh and the crap form of Jonson, if Worthy felt he would try Huckers up front for a change, the sensible option would be Brennan.

OK, it didn''t work out, but it was worth a try.  Worthy then made a tactical change and it worked for the best.  To have a go at him for this is ridiculous.

Hats off to him for taking Holty off and bringing Helveg on as well.  To replace your defensive midfielder early in the second half can be very disruptive, but Worthy felt it needed to be done, and annoyed as I was that Safri wasn''t the one to replace Holt (wasn''t even on the bench) Helveg did a good job.  I for one thought Helveg couldn''t do a job in this position, but he seemed pretty solid.  Maybe we have found a position for Helveg after all.

Worthington is a sensible and disciplined football manager who has done an excellent job.  People seem to want to find fault in everything he does.  Fat Man and Premier - who would you prefer?  Megson?

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Hux up front did work to a degree on Sat - its just that the 9 players behind him gave him no service at all - citys midfield in that 45 mins were non existent.

When he did get the ball he looked good and was the best city player in the first half by a long way.

I agree with wiz that Worthy is learning but he is making mistakes that are costing us points and we should be able to point these out without being branded part of a worthy out campaign.

OTBC

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The vast majority of city supporters want Worthy, warts and all.. he is the best way forward for the club, and appears committed to building the club from top to bottom, including the infrastructure, the finances, the youth scheme, as well as the team. That doesnt mean he is immune from criticism, and his blind spot over the floundering Gary Holt, is one such area of complaint. Last week, one poster actually claimed that Holt is our best and most effective midfielder, Saturday proved beyond doubt that this is not the case, holt simply must not start on Saturday. This is not a personal attack on holt, nor is it a racist slur....  Its simply a statement of fact.   

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[quote]I disagree and think this is a far too simplistic view. The whole of the midfield was poor in the first half, are you telling me Mulryne or Bentley were better than Holt in the first half? We were bet...[/quote]

Marty: May I quote you, ''We were better in the second half because we normally are''.

Answer me this then. How many games this season, has Holt started.?. Exactly!.

How many games has Helveg or Safri started and finished this season.? Exactly!.

Unlike Peter Raven, I still believe its not too late for Worthy to persuade Helveg to stay.

If he''s (Worthy) big enough to admit that he was wrong, then I''m convinced Thomas will still be here in February.

Hang on, Nigel admitting he was wrong?, maybe Peter R, is correct after all.

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[quote]Hux up front did work to a degree on Sat - its just that the 9 players behind him gave him no service at all - citys midfield in that 45 mins were non existent. When he did get the ball he looked go...[/quote]

I personally thought Svennson was our best player through out the game, put himself about, won alot of the ball and linked well with players.  Neither had any support from our midfield like you said, but then that is why I believe huxs should be in the midfield, but if we can find a good creative midfield Zip I would be all for him playing up front, just not now.

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Splendid Rush - I do find some of the decisions that Worthy makes to be extremely confusing -are you saying that you agree with every choice that he makes?  In my opinion he is still learning his trade and he makes some naive decisions at times.  As to changing him for someone else.....that could be an interesting thought

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