Our defence - hmmm

[a1canary 0]

I can''t make my mind up about it. On the face of it, i think they''ve done well (not including greeno here) but we''ve still conceded more than most teams and it still looks like we''re firefighting back there. Not enough protection from midfield? Poor distribution? I personally think it''s because we''re conceding posession in midfield too easily but we have quite a few options in defence now and i think i''d like to see the back four given an overhaul.

Drury is a natural and disciplined defender who has made the step up pretty well.  Left backs are traditionally unsung and their contributions often go unnoticed (think dennis irwin). But i can''t decide. How do people think he has been? Someone has suggested he''s not preventing enough crosses. And crosses cause us problems with our lack of height in defence. I would really like to see some height in there but would not like to lose charlton''s experience and excellent distribution. Solution - Charlton left back with Shackell partnering Flem. I''d like to see Shack given a go because i think a lot of us really feel he has the sort of damo star quality that will shine in the prem.

Tough on Drury but a tactical switch as much as anything. As for right back, this is tough on Eddie too but i think helveg could have another go there now that he''s beginning to adjust to the pace of the game. He definitely has quality and I wonder if he has the fitness to last in the holt role for 90 mins.

So the overhaul looks like this:

---------------Green-----------------

Helveg--Shackell--Fleming--Charlton

Certainly a lot of experience there and no small amount of quality.

[Temp the Revelator 0]

I think the problem (if there really is one) with Drury is his style of defending - he prefers to stand off his man and jockey him than dive in and win the tackle.  Although over the course of a game this tactic is extremely effective in frustrating the player, it also leaves enough space for the quality of winger in this league to get a quick cross in.  In the fizzy pop, you can get away with it, at this level you can be punished; Drury needs to learn to get a bit tighter to his man.

[Old Boy 0]

On what basis do a lot of us think that Shackell has star quality that will shine in the Prem? A basis of wishful thinking? Can''t be anything more, because we haven''t seen enough of him. To shove Drury out for that is just a little chancy don''t you think? I''d like to see Flem rested and Helveg in, to see how he and Charlton gelled. OK, still a pair of short-arses, but quality and experience in spades.

[Kent Canary 0]

Edworthy Helveg Charlton Drury

Id play Eddie because he is a hard worker and does make good overlap runs (not always seen though), and is a solid performer.

Helveg as I agree Fleming could be rested for a bit, and Helveg will be hungry to show he can perform and earn his place

Charlton is solid, one of Worthys understated signings

Drury, he is captain, is equally comitted, and link well with Huckerby down the wing. Isnt afraid of getting forward.

I know we havent been too good with the height and have sometimes been caught ball watching, esp at the far post, and no doubt some will disagree with my reasons, but hey, thats what were here for!

Thats my tuppence worth.

[Tumbleweed 106]

I like a1''s suggestion and this type of game would be a good chance to try it.

The overriding problems for me are:

(a) lack of height- Beattie won almost everything the other week and we can''t give headers away in the box

(b) sitting too deep

(c) midfield sitting too close (OK, not a problem with the defence technically but its part of the overall picture)

(d) both fullbacks often get caught out and are raely close enough to prevent crosses into the box which is something of a problem given point (a)

(e) neither centre backs have enough physical presence.

I am afraid it won''t happen though. Nigel seems oblivious to the fact that we concede too many soft goals and look frequently stretched. A Saints fan I know said he would be terrified if they had our defence (and thats saying something as their''s isn''t great either).

[DumbleDelia is Magic 0]

I still think that Drury has done pretty well.  I think a1 is spot on when he says that left backs get little praise.  It''s a damn tough position to play. 

I still think the Doc could do a job at the back.  He''s got the height and if he had the authority he could really help the back 4

[a1canary 0]

Ok old boy, maybe not all of us, but i just felt, having been on this board pretty much from the start, that many of us hold shackell in high esteem and feel that he could do a job for us, even in the prem.  Every time he has been called upon, admittedly not very often, he has been superb for one so young (except at palace last year when he was played out of position). He has a similar attitude and apporach to the game as the likes of Damo and Leon which will stand him in good stead for the rigours of the top league.  

And for god sake when will NW wake up to the fact that we need some height in there when we are playing the likes of birmingham, bolton and charlton and maybe 70% of this league. A lot of us, me included, (and seemingly nige too) felt that there is less long ball stuff in the prem so we could get away with a couple of shorties in central defence but i see that''s rubbish now. Yeah sides play posession football on the deck a lot more but that doesn''t mean they don''t also mix it up and play it long or pile in the crosses from time to time. It''s only Arsenal and Chelsea that don''t. As the season progresses teams will increasingly know how to play us. For example, i''m convinced Curbishley did some proper homework on us and worked out a few training ground moves and plays that exploited our weaknesses. And it worked a treat for him. And Moyes saw it too even in the course of the game and made the neccessary changes to get the points off us.

Doherty could be an option but I for one, rate Shackell, above Doherty, and would like to see more of him and i don''t think i''m alone in thinking that.

[beelsie 0]

 I agree with much that''s been said and as I stated in another thread, our mid field is where the problem is, we give too much room to the opposing side near the half way line, we are not getting to the ball quick enough. To rectify this we must deploy a 5 man mid-field  close to the half-way line. I would like to see Helveg and Docherty start in this formation with our front two strikers being Mc Kenzie and Svennson, The others in the side will be left as a problem for Worthy to decide on, apart from Charlton and Drury who IMO are musts. OTBC!!!:

[beelsie 0]

 I agree with much that''s been said and as I stated in another thread, our mid field is where the problem is, we give too much room to the opposing side near the half way line, we are not getting to the ball quick enough. To rectify this we must deploy a 5 man mid-field  close to the half-way line. I would like to see Helveg and Docherty start in this formation with our front two strikers being Mc Kenzie and Svennson, The others in the side will be left as a problem for Worthy to decide on, apart from Charlton and Drury who IMO are musts. OTBC!!!:

[0Amarillo<P><FONT color=#cccc00 size=4><EM> º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸ Amarillo ¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°<EM><FONT><P>ddMMyyyy0Falseen-US<P><FONT color=#cccc00 size=4><EM> º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸ Amarillo ¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°<EM><FONT><P>True 0]

I think part of the problem is losing possession too easily towards the front, and in midfield. It means the ball comes back at the defence very quickly and regularly, and at this level that will always result in goal chances.And, we play quite deep, which further increases the pressure. So its not all about the defenders, it covers the whole team, the style of play. For example, do opposition midfielders have the time and room to put good balls through, round, over for the attackers? If they had less time and space, perhaps the quality of their ball through wouldn''t be so good and would be easier for our defence to deal with.Its never that simple.

[eio 0]

I can see now why Worthy was chasing Primus so hard now... On reflection he would have been perfect

Noticed Bramble is still being linked with us, especially in the Newcastle media

I''ve got a feeling that our major signing in Jan won''t be a striker...