Belated thoughts on last night

[Jim Smith 2,314]

Sure has all been said in other posts but for what its worth a few thoughts on last night:

1. Worst we have played under lambert in my opinion. The football last night was absolutely dreadful pretty much from start to finish.

2. I still think we will limp home by virtue of the 2 home games and other sides taking points off each other so there is certainly no need to panic but I think what certain recent games have shown us is how we should not be complacent and how much we will still need to improve the squad in certain areas to be half decent in the championship next season. Ok we were missing Holt and Hooly but the simple truth is that last night was not a blip or a one off type of performance. We are not a good side, we are the most consistently least sh*t  team in this league. I don''t think we''ve played very well for most of the games i''ve seen this year. We generally get away with it through moments of excellence from our key performers (Fraser, Holt, Hooly, Martin) and the opposition being sh*t but generally we don''t control games and we always give the opposition chances. You can''t keep getting out of jail with late goals every week - sooner or later you will get burnt and that is starting to happen to us. Thankfully we have enough points in the bag and games are running out for others to catch us so we should get away with it.

3. As i am sure has been said below Russell Martin, Nelson, Lappin and Elliott are all not good enough. I cannot believe Spillane has been kept out by Martin as the latter is defensively a liability and before his injury I thought Spillane was looking excellent, To be fair to him Nelson has been better than i expected and defensively quite solid most of the time but his hoofing is embarassing and I believe is part of the reason we are not able to keep possession and pass the ball in the manner we were earlier in the season.

4. The midfield combo of Smith and Russell in the middle doesn''t work as although both great players neither are great passers of the ball. I would really like to see Hughes on saturday as he does get us ticking over and can put his foot on the ball.

5. Lambo is clearly a great manager and will take us up. He deserves all the credit in the world for getting this bunch of players to the position he has done. My only reservation at present is I don''t really rate many of his signings but hope this is more a conseqeunce of the resources he has had made available to him rather than his general eye for a player as the latter will be very important to us if we are going to have another good season next season.

 

[Boyo 0]

Agree with most of that but when you say about Smith and Russel playing in the middle together, they generally don''t.  When we play the diamond Smith isn''t really in the middle is he.  Also when you say that we have looked quite poor everytime you have seen us play how can you say that and what games have you seen?  Since the first ten games we have breezed through this league up untill this point.  Yes we havn''t played pretty football every game but in this league when you get teams stick ten men behind the ball and kick you here there and everywhere you can''t always play that stuff.

I will agree with R.Martin, Nelson and Elliott aren''t good enough but it was pretty harsh on Lappin to say that.  He has been generally very good for us this year.  But don''t worry, we will go up and we will win the league.

[Jim Smith 2,314]

I''ve seen every game bar about 5. I said haven''t seen us play particularly well "this year" - i.e. since January. With the exception of Col U away and the second half at Wycombe I don''t think we really have. We have been scoring late goals and nicking wins but have not been hugely convincing and if other teams had a goalscorer up front they would have made us pay.

Lappin has been useless for 2 months now. So slow its unbelievable. Spends most of his time waving his arms about and shouting at people whilst chasing the ball around like a labrador.

As i;''ve said above though I do think we will go up.

[Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB 1,017]

Great post Jim, you echo my feelings entirely, saved me typing a longer post!!.

[Hardhouse44 261]

[quote user="Jim Smith"]

Sure has all been said in other posts but for what its worth a few thoughts on last night:

1. Worst we have played under lambert in my opinion. The football last night was absolutely dreadful pretty much from start to finish.

2. I still think we will limp home by virtue of the 2 home games and other sides taking points off each other so there is certainly no need to panic but I think what certain recent games have shown us is how we should not be complacent and how much we will still need to improve the squad in certain areas to be half decent in the championship next season. Ok we were missing Holt and Hooly but the simple truth is that last night was not a blip or a one off type of performance. We are not a good side, we are the most consistently least sh*t  team in this league. I don''t think we''ve played very well for most of the games i''ve seen this year. We generally get away with it through moments of excellence from our key performers (Fraser, Holt, Hooly, Martin) and the opposition being sh*t but generally we don''t control games and we always give the opposition chances. You can''t keep getting out of jail with late goals every week - sooner or later you will get burnt and that is starting to happen to us. Thankfully we have enough points in the bag and games are running out for others to catch us so we should get away with it.

3. As i am sure has been said below Russell Martin, Nelson, Lappin and Elliott are all not good enough. I cannot believe Spillane has been kept out by Martin as the latter is defensively a liability and before his injury I thought Spillane was looking excellent, To be fair to him Nelson has been better than i expected and defensively quite solid most of the time but his hoofing is embarassing and I believe is part of the reason we are not able to keep possession and pass the ball in the manner we were earlier in the season.

4. The midfield combo of Smith and Russell in the middle doesn''t work as although both great players neither are great passers of the ball. I would really like to see Hughes on saturday as he does get us ticking over and can put his foot on the ball.

5. Lambo is clearly a great manager and will take us up. He deserves all the credit in the world for getting this bunch of players to the position he has done. My only reservation at present is I don''t really rate many of his signings but hope this is more a conseqeunce of the resources he has had made available to him rather than his general eye for a player as the latter will be very important to us if we are going to have another good season next season.

 

[/quote]

Wasn''t at the game so can''t comment on your first point. The

rest real echos my thoughts.

Russell Martin is a bad bit of business. Not good enough for a title challenge

in this league let alone if or when we get promoted. Clappin Lappin! lots of

huff and puff loads of hand clapping and clearly a great deal of passion.

However he is a fraud in my view all the clapping and passion the clapping and

anguish when we concede masked and hide to many eye the fact that he''s a light

weight tackle shy player who can''t pass well and is living on his occasional

good dead ball which is something of a rarity at present and his slight defensive

superiority over alternatives.

That brings me to my point. Without Hoolhan we are far too uncreative with a

midfield of Russell, Smith and Lappin. Especially at home I feel the manager

needs to substitute the defensive quality of our midfield for a more attacking,

creative approach.

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 1,735]

Agreed re:squad for next season. What we have to remember is that bar Holt our eam is basically a team of players that we were left with at the end of last season that nobody else wanted after relegation, plus a lower league journeyman or two.

There is huge work to be done in the summer.

[Yellowfuture 71]

[quote user="Jim Smith"]

Sure has all been said in other posts but for what its worth a few thoughts on last night:

1. Worst we have played under lambert in my opinion. The football last night was absolutely dreadful pretty much from start to finish.

2. I still think we will limp home by virtue of the 2 home games and other sides taking points off each other so there is certainly no need to panic but I think what certain recent games have shown us is how we should not be complacent and how much we will still need to improve the squad in certain areas to be half decent in the championship next season. Ok we were missing Holt and Hooly but the simple truth is that last night was not a blip or a one off type of performance. We are not a good side, we are the most consistently least sh*t  team in this league. I don''t think we''ve played very well for most of the games i''ve seen this year. We generally get away with it through moments of excellence from our key performers (Fraser, Holt, Hooly, Martin) and the opposition being sh*t but generally we don''t control games and we always give the opposition chances. You can''t keep getting out of jail with late goals every week - sooner or later you will get burnt and that is starting to happen to us. Thankfully we have enough points in the bag and games are running out for others to catch us so we should get away with it.

3. As i am sure has been said below Russell Martin, Nelson, Lappin and Elliott are all not good enough. I cannot believe Spillane has been kept out by Martin as the latter is defensively a liability and before his injury I thought Spillane was looking excellent, To be fair to him Nelson has been better than i expected and defensively quite solid most of the time but his hoofing is embarassing and I believe is part of the reason we are not able to keep possession and pass the ball in the manner we were earlier in the season.

4. The midfield combo of Smith and Russell in the middle doesn''t work as although both great players neither are great passers of the ball. I would really like to see Hughes on saturday as he does get us ticking over and can put his foot on the ball.

5. Lambo is clearly a great manager and will take us up. He deserves all the credit in the world for getting this bunch of players to the position he has done. My only reservation at present is I don''t really rate many of his signings but hope this is more a conseqeunce of the resources he has had made available to him rather than his general eye for a player as the latter will be very important to us if we are going to have another good season next season.

 

[/quote]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well put Jim, points that many of us have been making for some time now only to be attacked by those who are completely satisfied with our situation and feel that any critism of players or manager is heresy.

I think yesterday has been coming for some time,  Lambert is a very good manager IMO and I feel reasonably confident he will have learned a lot from the game.

I  do however share your concern about some of the players he has brought in, of course he has not had much money to play with. There was a lot of  celebrating from the stuffed  shirts last night up on the balcony, noteably before the game started, I assume this was Delia and other Board members, couldnt be sure at that distance. Hopefully last night will have cleared out any complacency that they  may have been feeling about  our chances in the  Championship next season (assuming we go up which I  am sure we will), I advocated the need to invest in the team in January so that we could start building a quality squad which would carry us through any dips in form this year and build momentum for next season. I sincerly hope that they will dig deep during the summer to prevent history repeating itself!

[Bury Yellow 2]

Must agree with most of this thread. Lambo has performed a miracle to get the best out this squad. I think his signings have been good considering the money available.

I''m also pleased that some have the same opinion as me regarding Lappin. He wears his heart on his sleeve but he is too lightweight for even League One.

I suppose the worst insult I could throw at him is that he reminds me of a certain Daryl Sutch. Arm waving, pointing but not actually achieving very much. Although he does have a decent left foot I wouldn''t fancy him in the trenches.

I have to say though, that if Lambo thinks he''s the man then that''s good enough for me.

Obviously we miss Holt and Hooly. They are both class players and even good sides still have to rely on one or two top players to squeeze through games in a long season.

At Orient last night I swore (!) that I would not go to Charlton as I couldn''t bear another torrid time like last year but....I''ll be there.... of course!!

[Whats a right winger 0]

DIDN''T THINK IT WAS BOARD MEMBERS ON THE BALCONY ON THE FAR SIDE, THOUGHT THEY WERE FURTHER DOWN AND THOSE UP TOP WERE EXECUTIVE TYPE FANS(WELL HEELED & WELL OILED)

[Yellowfuture 71]

[quote user="Whats a right winger"]DIDN''T THINK IT WAS BOARD MEMBERS ON THE BALCONY ON THE FAR SIDE, THOUGHT THEY WERE FURTHER DOWN AND THOSE UP TOP WERE EXECUTIVE TYPE FANS(WELL HEELED & WELL OILED)[/quote]

 

Your probably right mate, the old  eyes are not as good as they were!

[Helsinki canary 240]

A very good post Jim, I have not had the chance to see too many games this year but from what I have seen and heard on the commentaries we have been doing exactly as you say, playing pretty average (poorly in championship terms) and nicking results. I was unfortunate to be at the southampton game and I came away with very mixed feelings, we had come up against a strong / powerful team which we will meet most weeks in the champ and we basically got wiped off the park, they were just too good for us in the middle and there was nobody to take the game by the scruff. On the other hand the table doesnt lie , we are top because we have won the most games (for which I am delighted), but the way we have done it has been far from convincing from time to time. I think like most that we will limp over the line - but I am acutely aware without significnat strengthening in the middle and defence we will really struggle again next season because teams up there are able to punish us alot more. Come on city put this season to bed!

[Mr.Carrow 376]

Well i was there and i`m afraid i think all this doom and gloom is ridiculous.  We let in two goals i would be ashamed of if it was my Sunday team (genuinely).  That meant we were chasing the game and Orient knew all they had to do was keep hassling us and we`d be forced into playing rushed long balls to an attack which didn`t have a target-man and therefore won virtually nothing- yet we still managed to hit the woodwork twice and Hughes missed a chance which looked easier to score.  The defence need a roasting for the ridiculous goals, some of our players looked tired which may need to be addressed and Lambert warrents some criticism for not bringing in a reserve target-man as Holt does seem to be a bit hot-headed.  Other than that i think we`ll be fine.

[grantroederdisaster 0]

1 - Agree we were poor!

2, I to think or rather hope we''ll get through this blip!

You can only beat who you are up against.

Its normally the teams with the better players and who are the least sh it team in their respective league that wins it - your stating the obvious!

3, Russell Martin has had his shockers but has in the most put in steady consistant performances.

Nelson as we all know is limited passing wise but hes a great stopper and has done a good job for us this season. He caused the 2nd Orient goal last night by deciding to leave the ball rather than head it away.

Lappin - Yes he can be lightweight but his desire, steadiness and adding good balance to the left hand side of our midfield means hes done a good job for us!

Elliot - Shown a few glimpses of class in earlier games but is clearly not a targetman the same as messrs Johnson, Mcdonald and Chris Martin are not. Overall hasn''t been good enough!

Your being way over harsh with these players!

4, In the diamond Smith is not in the middle. Overall these two have done very well for us this season though in recent games have struggled a little bit against opposition playing out of their skin against the league leaders and 2 games where the refs were shocking!

5 Yes your right Lambert is a great manager with one of the positive elements being that his signings make sense. Compare his signing to messrs Grant and Roeders signings!

Some points you make are right but you are being way way over the top in your pessimism!

You sound like you belong to the set of fans that think unless we''re winning 5-0 we''re not playing well. The Division 1 title winning team won many games that season through luck and grinding out results, anyone saying otherwise need to take of their rose tinted glasses. Even in the not great standard League 1, the teams train everyday so therefore are fit and know what their team mates are doing - in reality they are mostly not going to be pushovers!

The easy games are few and far between!

Look at Leeds, QPR and Nottingham Forest for evidence of previously higher league clubs who''ve spent more than one season trying to get out of League 1. That said if we do it this season at the 1st time of asking then it will be a massive achievement!

Will this squad be good enough for the Championship?

I think with 4 additions, Championship quality players replacing fringe players then I see no reason why we can''t seriously challenge for a top 6 place.

But you worry about that when/if we get into the Championship!

[Harry 0]

[quote user="grantroederdisaster"]

Nelson as we all know is limited passing wise but hes a great stopper and has done a good job for us this season. He caused the 2nd Orient goal last night by deciding to leave the ball rather than head it away.  [/quote]Leave it? He bloody well ducked

[Smudger 0]

[quote user="thefutureisyellow"][quote user="Jim Smith"]

Sure has all been said in other posts but for what its worth a few thoughts on last night:

1. Worst we have played under lambert in my opinion. The football last night was absolutely dreadful pretty much from start to finish.

2. I still think we will limp home by virtue of the 2 home games and other sides taking points off each other so there is certainly no need to panic but I think what certain recent games have shown us is how we should not be complacent and how much we will still need to improve the squad in certain areas to be half decent in the championship next season. Ok we were missing Holt and Hooly but the simple truth is that last night was not a blip or a one off type of performance. We are not a good side, we are the most consistently least sh*t  team in this league. I don''t think we''ve played very well for most of the games i''ve seen this year. We generally get away with it through moments of excellence from our key performers (Fraser, Holt, Hooly, Martin) and the opposition being sh*t but generally we don''t control games and we always give the opposition chances. You can''t keep getting out of jail with late goals every week - sooner or later you will get burnt and that is starting to happen to us. Thankfully we have enough points in the bag and games are running out for others to catch us so we should get away with it.

3. As i am sure has been said below Russell Martin, Nelson, Lappin and Elliott are all not good enough. I cannot believe Spillane has been kept out by Martin as the latter is defensively a liability and before his injury I thought Spillane was looking excellent, To be fair to him Nelson has been better than i expected and defensively quite solid most of the time but his hoofing is embarassing and I believe is part of the reason we are not able to keep possession and pass the ball in the manner we were earlier in the season.

4. The midfield combo of Smith and Russell in the middle doesn''t work as although both great players neither are great passers of the ball. I would really like to see Hughes on saturday as he does get us ticking over and can put his foot on the ball.

5. Lambo is clearly a great manager and will take us up. He deserves all the credit in the world for getting this bunch of players to the position he has done. My only reservation at present is I don''t really rate many of his signings but hope this is more a conseqeunce of the resources he has had made available to him rather than his general eye for a player as the latter will be very important to us if we are going to have another good season next season.

 

[/quote]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well put Jim, points that many of us have been making for some time now only to be attacked by those who are completely satisfied with our situation and feel that any critism of players or manager is heresy.

I think yesterday has been coming for some time,  Lambert is a very good manager IMO and I feel reasonably confident he will have learned a lot from the game.

I  do however share your concern about some of the players he has brought in, of course he has not had much money to play with. There was a lot of  celebrating from the stuffed  shirts last night up on the balcony, noteably before the game started, I assume this was Delia and other Board members, couldnt be sure at that distance. Hopefully last night will have cleared out any complacency that they  may have been feeling about  our chances in the  Championship next season (assuming we go up which I  am sure we will), I advocated the need to invest in the team in January so that we could start building a quality squad which would carry us through any dips in form this year and build momentum for next season. I sincerly hope that they will dig deep during the summer to prevent history repeating itself!

[/quote]Totally agree with this and I was saying the same thing... look to strengthen all the time when you are doing well.The moment you are happy with what you have got you fail to strive for improvements and complacency creeps in.Hopefully they will realise that we need to spend a reasonable amount in the summer to make a good fist of things in the Championship and don''t copy the mantra of what we done when prmoted to the Premiership and wait until January before bringing in any real quality.  Maybe we will this time considering that we were very conservative in the January prior to promotion in comparison to the year we won the Championship?

[morty 0]

Ever considered the fact that we maybe didn''t have the money?

[Yellowfuture 71]

[quote user="morty"]Ever considered the fact that we maybe didn''t have the money?
[/quote]

 

 

As I`m sure you know Morty that to run any successful business you need to evaluate risk. Your success or failure can depend on your appetite for risk and the quality of your analysis, it was a no brainer to invest money in the team in January to give us the best possible chance of promotion and to build a decent squad for next season.    

[dylanisabaddog 4,866]

[quote user="Jim Smith"]

I''ve seen every game bar about 5. I said haven''t seen us play particularly well "this year" - i.e. since January. With the exception of Col U away and the second half at Wycombe I don''t think we really have. We have been scoring late goals and nicking wins but have not been hugely convincing and if other teams had a goalscorer up front they would have made us pay.

Lappin has been useless for 2 months now. So slow its unbelievable. Spends most of his time waving his arms about and shouting at people whilst chasing the ball around like a labrador.

As i;''ve said above though I do think we will go up.

[/quote]

 

On behalf of Labradors everywhere, I wish to object to this remark.  I do not chase balls unless there is a positive reward at the end of the game (biscuits etc)

On a more serious note, I agree that we haven''t played well since January.  Is this because we are playing teams for the 2nd time and they know what to expect?