Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
AndyCanary

Stadium expansion?

Recommended Posts

[quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="Mr.Carrow"]

I`ve never been against the building of the Jarrold stand but the infill should have waited.  I won`t list the other unneccessary stuff we wasted money on because you`ll only both ignore it again......

I`d love to see the ground expanded to 30k plus but i think that the new board members have got it right that we need at least two seasons in the Prem to be able to afford it.

When does the "We want Munby/Doncaster back" campaign start?  Or are you going to admit you`re glad they`ve gone?

[/quote]

Well, I don''t know about any "We want Munby/Doncaster back" campaigns but they were certainly partly responsible for the last time the ground was expanded. Unless it was only the Majority Shareholders.

Or Worthy?

[/quote]

Poor Worthy. I wonder if he knows how you still love him so?

[;)]

OTBC

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="Mello Yello"][quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="Mello Yello"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

Why don''t we expand the stadium with the requirements of all fans in mind. It''s quite obvious that there''s many fans who only want to see the game. The next time the stadium is expanded it should be done with these fans in mind. If the next stage is to put another tier on the City Stand then do this without all those expensive facilities. No bars or resturant facilities. Just a roof, seats and the minimum toilet facilities. Bog standard bogs if you like. A bit like the old South Stand before it was demolished. It''s about time the club started to consider the traditional grass roots fan rather than the sanitised version we have to "put up with" in the Jarrold.

[:O]

[/quote]

The only facilities I utilise in the City Stand, are my seat for the game and to use the loo before and after the game..... I don''t purchase food or drink within the stadium (or Morrison''s for that matter) and I do not purchase a programme, Golden Goal ticket - or have a bet.

I actually go to the game to watch and experience the match, have a chinwag with those around me - and then go to my fave City boozer for some ale and a laugh after full-time.

I can survive a 110+ minutes without having more than a quick couple of wazzes and can certainly cope without having a bland coffee/tea, a cardboard tasting lager - or the consumption of a  volcanic magma trendy pie - or pasty type sozzy roll pastry thingy.

If all supporters were like me......the club would now be 43million plus, in the red....

But, then again.....where would the club be without the quality infrastructure and amenities - or these fine people who are classed as sanitised fans?

We''d probably be like Swindon who have nothing like the facilities we have.....and who are only just in the play-off positions....Lucky us for having sanitised fans.

 

 

[/quote]

Well there''s a thing, Mello and nutty singing off the same hymn sheet. Perhaps we could sit next to eachother in this new bog standard stand. For gods sake keep it men only though. No women or children. We don''t want to see fathers with their children or grandparents with their grandchildren. They can go in the sanitary areas with the bars and the posh nosh. I was only telling Mr Carrow just the other day about my game in the Jarrold this season. There was a fan on a day out who didn''t even applaud our goals, I do know him but his name escapes me right now. And there was another guy I recognised with his son and an older guy, who I used to see around in the 60''s, with his grandson. These fans did applaud goals but didn''t get involved in the more passionate aspects of support like calling the ref and opposition players winkers[;)]. Yes, I''m looking for a new home and the bog standard stand is pressing all the right buttons for me.

[/quote]

yeah....

[/quote]

Lovely old job[Y]

[/quote]

With your worthy experience and expertise in cleaning the bogs in your establishment that you frequently regale us with, you should be right in line for the post of ''Chief Fan Bog Advisor'' when they''re considering the design of the bogs this new stand. Power to the people, so to speak.

They could also rope you in to develop the ''maintenance protocol'', I guess.

Lovely.

OTBC

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="nutty nigel"]

Remind me..

What''s a USA-type American and the associated insult that comes with it[:^)]

[/quote]

I''ll bite nutty.

The western hemisphere is largely on continuous interconnected land mass commonly known as the americas. The components parts are are North, Central and South America.

Central and South America each consist of several separate independent countries. North America consists of the United States of America and Canada.

The USA has abrogated to itself the exclusive soubriquets ''America'' and its derivative ''Americans'' when talking  about themselves.

In other words they are Americans but ctizens of all other countries of this large land mass are ---------- (something else).

That is why I describe them as Americans (USA-type). There are millions of other types of Americans.

The ideals of which you wrote in your post reminded me of the ideals often espoused by the dominant sub-set of Americans (USA-type). Insult? not really. I was just being a little troublesome that day - you know that feeling well.

[;)]

OTBC

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We''re selling out the home areas for virtually every home game in the 3RD DIVISION and I''m sure we''d get 26,000 every game if away fans were banned!

 

This is after 5 previous seasons of 24,000+ average including last seasons disaster that led to relegation!

 

In the Premiership season, club officials said that for many games they could of sold 35,000 tickets!

 

That suggests that we could justifiably increase ground capacity when the finances allow which would be in the event of being in the Premiership or finding investment!

One of the lowest attended home games by home fans this season was the Leeds game because Leeds took over 2000 fans. I''m sure we''d of comforbaly sold over 30,000 tickets for that game!

Oh and before the gloom merchants blinded by the "little club Norwich" rubbish start suggesting we don''t need to increase ground capacity if we increased prices cause the only reason we get good crowds is cause we so cheap - A casual ticket in the Barclay against Stockport was £26. Now I don''t consider paying that sort of money to watch a 3rd Division game against the Leagues cannon fodder team to be cheap. Also their are no concessions in the Jarold stand for children, so a kid watching the Stockport game would also of had to pay £26 plus. The crowd that day was 25,400!

 Yes season ticket prices are very competitive but they are not as cheap as some people would make out. Our ST prices are comfortably more expensive than most others in this Division and even Premiership clubs like Wigan and Blackburn who are desperate to entice fans in!

 

Personally in current times, I think a capacity increase up to 30,000 wouldn''t make much difference cause I think we''d be able to get that most weeks, especially during a successful campaign like this one has been so far!

 

A previous poster states that its not "miraculous" we get the crowds we do!!

 

What tripe!

 

Remember what Division we''re in. Yes we haven''t got much competition, but in the early 90''s we were getting crowds as low as 10,000 to watch us in the top flight. The fact we''re still getting bigger crowds than most Championship clubs and some premiership clubs, many of whom would be considered bigger clubs with large fanbases, is my book miraculous! 

The way to increase ground capacity is to do what the club have been doing since the ground went all seater in 1992 - increase the ground capacity a little bit at a time, so as not to saturate the demand and therefore probably lose season ticket holders.

 

At the AGM the board said that in the current stadium footprint, the capacity can be increased by 2-3000. The only place in the current footprint that isn''t developed is the hotel corner, so its most probably this area that is the one that can be increased. If this end was developed then the away fans would be moved to the end of this new infill nearest the Barclay which would allow the club to sell more tickets in the Jarold stand to home fans.

 

Also at the AGM the board said that to redevelop the City stand, but putting a new tier on top (the foundations were built with that in mmind!) would cost in current prices £15M which obviously the club cannot afford at present. I''d say that a City stand upper tier would probably hold no more than 5,000.

 

These developments would take ground capacity up to about 33,000 which would be a good, realistic figure for our club. If we had a number of seasons selling out at this capacity then further ground expansion would no doubt be investigated. Where? -

 

I''m sure that by this time the N&P stand would be looking old (it does now surrounded by newer stands with better facilities) and I''m sure that it would be possible to build a bigger (another 2000 seats?) stand  with better facilities in its place. Although some say the foundations of the Jarold stand don''t allow for an upper tier I''m sure it would be possible to put another tier above it with its own facilities. Then it has been suggested that the Barclay could be replaced by new and bigger single tier Kop like version.

 

Yes all pie in the sky at the moment but for the club to fulfill its full potential, a bigger Carrow Road would be a must!

 

In the EDP the other week the board stated that the club are looking into increasing ground capacity in the short term by putting up a temporary stand, which again the only feasible place would be in front of the hotel.

 

I like David Mcnally cause hes said things like they are and he stated that for us to reach our full potential if we established ourselves in the Premiership then a capacity of 35-40,000 would be needed which I fully agree with. At last one of the top officials at the club getting away from the bulls hit little club stereotype that most people outside of East Anglia go with and even some of our fans do as well!

 

Mcnally also said that if the football side of things at the club is made good then everything else will follow which would include the obvious need to increase ground capacity!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="grantroederdisaster"]In the EDP the other week the board stated that the club are looking into increasing ground capacity in the short term by putting up a temporary stand, which again the only feasible place would be in front of the hotel.[/quote]McNally dismissed that idea at the Fans Forum but says we are looking to shoe horn extra seats in here and there to increase capacity by a few hundred.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="Mr.Carrow"]

I`d love to see the ground expanded to 30k plus but i think that the new board members have got it right that we need at least two seasons in the Prem to be able to afford it.

[/quote]

Which, as it happens, is simply a continuation of the policy of the much-maligned old board. No change there at all.
[/quote]

And where exactly did i say anything different?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

[quote user="morty"][quote user="Mr.Carrow"][quote user="morty"][quote user="Mr.Carrow"]

Morty, i don`t want to get into a silly slanging match so i apologise for the confrontational nature of my post- it just winds me up that i`ve probably posted the above 20 times on here yet it still doesn`t seem to sink in.  In terms of catchment area we are in a fantastic and enviable position and 25k per week is definately not miraculous.  If you compare us with more populous parts of the country, those other areas without exception have more clubs and sports fighting for the same pool of people- ie. Birmingham- 3million people with 6 football clubs, South Yorkshire- 1.2m people with 5 football clubs plus rugby.  We have over 1 million to ourselves- not bad huh?

The club has done well to market the itself over recent years, but the potential to grow has always been there- just not recognised by the predominant "little norwich" outlook so many ascribe to.

[/quote]

That still does not guarantee we can put 35k bums on seats week in, week out.

We may have a large population but that doesn''t mean they are all football fans. Its nothing to do with any "Little Norwich" outlook, its about borrowing money on a gamble that we may get bigger crowds, which no fancy figures or market demographics can definitely assure.

And that is what is stopping us expanding, risk.
[/quote]

Morty, i haven`t argued any of the above, i`ve just pointed out that to say that Norfolk has a small population and to get 25k each week is miraculous is just plain wrong.  It annoys me because i hear it so often and when i ask people what they base their opinion on, they haven`t got a clue!  It`s one of those things that has been repeated so many times that people assume it must be true, and then get angry when it`s pointed out that it`s actually a load of rubbish.  I remember Chase stating that "NCFC has a catchment area of 120,000 people and can never average more than 20k per game"- and an awful lot of people actually believed him.....[:|]

[/quote]

Its not about catchment area, its about how many people actually want to come to Norwich City week in, week out. Which you don''t know and neither do I.

We could have ten million people living in Norwich and if only 25k of them want to come and watch football then thats your audience.

So we get on average probably 23k home fans at each game, call it 25k for the sake of arguments and we had nearly a thousand on the waiting list for season tickets.

Those figures don''t up to a whole lot more that 26k best scenario. Yes, we will get more for some Prem games but you can''t build a bigger stand on the off chance you will fill it 4 or 5 times a season.
[/quote]

Earlier in the thread you said that with Norfolk`s population it`s miraculous we get the crowds we do and we must have one of the highest percentages of local support in the country, now i`ve pointed out that that is wrong you change your argument....

The figures i`ve seen are that 20% of the British population regard themselves as "football supporters".  You may get slight regional variations in that, but ours is likely to be higher than areas like Yorkshire and the West Country where there are many rugby supporters.  Obviously not all of those are going to follow City and you are quite right that you can never accurately judge demand until you actually have the facilities, but there is plenty of evidence that demand towards the top of the Champs or in the Prem would be much higher than our current capacity- Doncaster put a figure of 35k per game on demand in the promotion and Prem seasons and McNally has said 35-40k.  But perhaps you know better than them?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="AndyCanary"][quote user="Tangible Fixed Assets anyone"]

You sound like a Labour Chancellor, lets have more debt when we are already having a £2.5m holiday from servicing the existing debt. 

Furthermore we are not guaranteed the extra income to service the extra debt at a sufficient level while we are in The Championship or do you know 5,000 new ST holders prepared to commit to 15 years in advance?  

As the board has already said we would need to be in The Prem or bobbing between The Championship and The Prem for the expansion of the GW. stand to happen. Even then I suspect will try to pay for some of the stand with cash in order to keep the burden of debt servicing down.

[/quote]

Don''t be a dweeb LOL.
[/quote]

May I suggest you stop looking at yourself in a mirror.

 

You really do believe in fantasy economics.

If borrowing the money to build a new stand was so secure, then why is NCFC Plc. taking a holiday from paying £2.5m to service the debt this season?

Please answer that question.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="AndyCanary"][quote user="Tangible Fixed Assets anyone"]

You sound like a Labour Chancellor, lets have more debt when we are already having a £2.5m holiday from servicing the existing debt. 

Furthermore we are not guaranteed the extra income to service the extra debt at a sufficient level while we are in The Championship or do you know 5,000 new ST holders prepared to commit to 15 years in advance?  

As the board has already said we would need to be in The Prem or bobbing between The Championship and The Prem for the expansion of the GW. stand to happen. Even then I suspect will try to pay for some of the stand with cash in order to keep the burden of debt servicing down.

[/quote]

As Morty said £1500 a seat for expansion. If we isolate that cost and divide it by season ticket cost it pays for itself in 5 years. [/quote]

 

At the AGM the club said it would cost £15m to build the Main Stand.  

I''ll take the clubs figures rather than Mortys and on the basis of that, it would take about 15 years to repay £15m including the interest (and thats assuming you could find someone to lend us the money given our existing debt level).

Time for realism not fantasy economics.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="blahblahblah"][quote user="Tangible Fixed Assets anyone"]

[quote user="blahblahblah"][quote user="morty"]The intention is to replace the city stand with something probably similar to the Jarrold. But we would have to be at least 2 seasons in the Prem before it is even considered. They said at the supporters forum (and I may have the exact figure wrong) that the industry standard price for a new stand was something like £1500 per seat.

So basically unless you put a bum on that seat every game for about 4 seasons you''re losing money.
[/quote]

Could you sell a 5 year season ticket to every bum who wanted those seats, paid for monthly by direct debit ?
[/quote]

6,000 seats @ say £340 (net of VAT) = £2m approx.

So £15m / £2m -> 7.5 years BUT that is not even considering the interest costs........think of 15 years as being more realistic

[/quote]

''ang on a mo, where does the 15 million come from ?  6000 seats * 1500 quid = 9 million.
[/quote]

From the club at the AGM.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

[quote user="AndyCanary"]Of course the purpose of this topic is to discuss opinions etc. So let''s not let it get out of hand by clinging to the ''the board have already discussed this'' card.. otherwise every topic would end the same.. [/quote]

BUT its the NCFC Plc board who will decide when the ground will be expanded not you.

Nice attempt at trying to wind people up.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="BlyBlyBabes"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

Remind me..

What''s a USA-type American and the associated insult that comes with it[:^)]

[/quote]

I''ll bite nutty.

The western hemisphere is largely on continuous interconnected land mass commonly known as the americas. The components parts are are North, Central and South America.

Central and South America each consist of several separate independent countries. North America consists of the United States of America and Canada.

The USA has abrogated to itself the exclusive soubriquets ''America'' and its derivative ''Americans'' when talking  about themselves.

In other words they are Americans but ctizens of all other countries of this large land mass are ---------- (something else).

That is why I describe them as Americans (USA-type). There are millions of other types of Americans.

The ideals of which you wrote in your post reminded me of the ideals often espoused by the dominant sub-set of Americans (USA-type). Insult? not really. I was just being a little troublesome that day - you know that feeling well.

[;)]

OTBC

 

[/quote]

Well you wriggled out of that one well and just about got away with it.

"Insult? Not really" Oooooooookkkkkkkkkkk [*-)]

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="Tangible Fixed Assets anyone"]

[quote user="AndyCanary"]Of course the purpose of this topic is to discuss opinions etc. So let''s not let it get out of hand by clinging to the ''the board have already discussed this'' card.. otherwise every topic would end the same.. [/quote]

BUT its the NCFC Plc board who will decide when the ground will be expanded not you.

Nice attempt at trying to wind people up.

 [/quote]

Are you a dribbler? Of course it is NCFC Plc that will decide.. Just like it is Paul Lambert and his management team that will decide the team that plays.. does that mean we''re not allowed to discuss who should be in the team at all? Of course it doesn''t. It''s exactly the same concept.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

[quote user="Tangible Fixed Assets anyone"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

Bog standard bogs if you like.

[:O][/quote]

So you piss onto the road below?

[/quote]

Now in the days before football was sanitised the bogs were outside, without a roof, if you were lucky[:O]

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="AndyCanary"][quote user="Tangible Fixed Assets anyone"]

[quote user="AndyCanary"]Of course the purpose of this topic is to discuss opinions etc. So let''s not let it get out of hand by clinging to the ''the board have already discussed this'' card.. otherwise every topic would end the same.. [/quote]

BUT its the NCFC Plc board who will decide when the ground will be expanded not you.

Nice attempt at trying to wind people up.

 [/quote]


Are you a dribbler?

[/quote]

Not unless I am Bill Punton in disguise!

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="Tangible Fixed Assets anyone"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

Bog standard bogs if you like.

[:O][/quote]

So you piss onto the road below?

[/quote]

Now in the days before football was sanitised the bogs were outside, without a roof, if you were lucky[:O]

[/quote]

Just like those behind the River End mound before the N&P. stand was built.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...