Stadium expansion?

[ROBFLECK 132]

I believe we could fill a 35 K stadium. Most logical seems a second tier for the Jarrold stand.

[AndyCanary 0]

Of course the purpose of this topic is to discuss opinions etc. So let''s not let it get out of hand by clinging to the ''the board have already discussed this'' card.. otherwise every topic would end the same.. be it team selection, or player purchases etc.Lets say we upped to 35,000 capacity. Which is an additional 10,000 seats at £1500 per seat = £15million.If half were sold as season tickets each year at £300x 5000 = £1.5millionThe other half as casual tickets at an average of £20 per ticket x 5000 = £100,000 x 23 home games = £2.3millionThat''s £3.8million per season for an extra 10,000 seats.  It''d take roughly about 4 years to pay off the loan completely (minus interest) at that rate.I don''t know what sort of corporate finance Norwich would qualify for but if they went along to little ol N&P for a personal loan over 5 years it wouldn''t be unusual for 1 year of it to be paying back interest alone. So in an ideal (very rough) world they could be 10,000 seats better off and debt free (of that loan) in 5 years..Let''s say they only sell an average of 1500 season tickets and 1500 casual tickets of the 10,000 It would still only around 12 years for it to pay for itself and that''s at 30% capacity. Surely a worse case scenario.

[morty 0]

[quote user="AndyCanary"]Of course the purpose of this topic is to discuss opinions etc. So let''s not let it get out of hand by clinging to the ''the board have already discussed this'' card.. otherwise every topic would end the same.. be it team selection, or player purchases etc.Lets say we upped to 35,000 capacity. Which is an additional 10,000 seats at £1500 per seat = £15million.If half were sold as season tickets each year at £300x 5000 = £1.5millionThe other half as casual tickets at an average of £20 per ticket x 5000 = £100,000 x 23 home games = £2.3millionThat''s £3.8million per season for an extra 10,000 seats.  It''d take roughly about 4 years to pay off the loan completely (minus interest) at that rate.I don''t know what sort of corporate finance Norwich would qualify for but if they went along to little ol N&P for a personal loan over 5 years it wouldn''t be unusual for 1 year of it to be paying back interest alone. So in an ideal (very rough) world they could be 10,000 seats better off and debt free (of that loan) in 5 years..Let''s say they only sell an average of 1500 season tickets and 1500 casual tickets of the 10,000 It would still only around 12 years for it to pay for itself and that''s at 30% capacity. Surely a worse case scenario.[/quote]The trouble with this is we are right up to our overdraft limit, in a business that technically makes a loss every year without investment and freebies from board members.A bank would look at this and would be unlikely to lend us the money, its all very well saying we have great fans who will stay loyal and buy the tickets, but none of us can see into the future and we can''t guarantee this. You only have to look at big grounds round the country that are half empty every week.

[AndyCanary 0]

[quote user="morty"]You only have to look at big grounds round the country that are half empty every week.[/quote]Geography comes into it a lot though. Look at all the big grounds that instantly spring to mind as being half empty...Leeds > Not far from Man U, Man C, LiverpoolLondon clubs > goes without saying

Then look at Newcastle... they''re similar to us in terms of geography with Sunderland being like Ipswich are to us. (I.e the worse club in the league above despite have worse fans [;)]

[morty 0]

[quote user="AndyCanary"][quote user="morty"]You only have to look at big grounds round the country that are half empty every week.[/quote]Geography comes into it a lot though. Look at all the big grounds that instantly spring to mind as being half empty...Leeds > Not far from Man U, Man C, LiverpoolLondon clubs > goes without saying

Then look at Newcastle... they''re similar to us in terms of geography with Sunderland being like Ipswich are to us. (I.e the worse club in the league above despite have worse fans [;)][/quote]It can also work against us though. Norfolk doesn''t have a massive population, the fact we get the crowds that we do now is nothing short of miraculous! In fact if you were to take the population of the county, and put that against the crowds we get I think you would be hard pushed to find a better locally supported club.But could we find another 5 or 10,000 people to come week in, week out? I''m not so sure to be honest.

[AndyCanary 0]

You have a good point.. looking at Championship attendances:

Team	Pld	Total	Highest	Average	Capacity		Pct
1	Newcastle United (1)	22	945735	49644	42988	52387		82.0%
2	Derby County (16)	21	610409	33010	29067	33597		86.5%
3	Sheffield United (10)	22	551804	29210	25082	32609		76.9%
4	Nottingham Forest (3)	22	525521	29155	23887	30602		78.0%
5	Leicester City (5)	21	495691	31759	23604	32500		72.6%
6	West Bromwich Albion (2)	21	462740	24924	22035	28003		78.6%
7	Sheffield Wednesday (22)	21	460516	30644	21929	39814		55.0%
8	Ipswich Town (13)	21	436391	27059	20781	30300		68.5%
9	Cardiff City (4)	22	453192	25630	20600	20376		101.0%
10	Middlesbrough (8)	22	431086	27342	19595	35100		55.8%
11	Coventry City (17)	21	362798	22209	17276	32500		53.1%
12	Reading (11)	20	342004	20515	17100	24200		70.6%
13	Swansea City (6)	21	321600	18794	15314	20500		74.7%
14	Crystal Palace (21)	22	325931	24430	14815	26309		56.3%
15	Bristol City (9)	22	319777	19144	14535	21479		67.6%
16	Watford (19)	22	313975	17120	14272	19920		71.6%
17	Queens Park Rangers (18)	20	264203	17082	13210	19148		68.9%
18	Barnsley (15)	22	286237	20079	13011	23186		56.1%
19	Preston North End (14)	22	281170	19840	12780	19525		65.4%
20	Doncaster Rovers (12)	22	240686	14850	10940	15231		71.8%
21	Plymouth Argyle (23)	21	215604	14792	10267	19500		52.6%
22	Peterborough United (24)	22	197192	12877	8963	15314		58.5%
23	Blackpool (7)	21	174597	9861	8314	9491		87.5%
24	Scunthorpe United (20)	20	129819	8921	6491	9183		70.6%

[AndyJR 0]

The City Stand is the one to replace and isn''t that the reason why they bought ''Carrow Road''? (in inverted commars as I mean the road as in the road, not the stadium as in Carrow Road, although they are the same name so.......Oh Shut up Andy, they know what you mean....)

[Posh Yella 0]

There is some very dodgy maths going on in this thread.

10,000 new seats at £1500 a seat = £15m

£1500 per new seat pays for itself in 5 years

These statements are complete nonsense. To add 10k or even 5k seats would mean knocking down an existing stand and rebuilding those seats as well - you can''t just magic them in. Knock down the City Stand and build a 12000 seater stand in it''s place is 12000 x 1500 + cost of knocking down existing stand +  at least a years lost revenue = well who knows but at least £20m for just 8k extra seats. That is already £2.5k per seat without considering interest payments! With interest over the time it would take to pay for it you are looking at closer to £4k a seat.

Now my maths is dodgy as well but a tad more realistic than some of the posts on here.

[morty 0]

[quote user="AndyJR"]The City Stand is the one to replace and isn''t that the reason why they bought ''Carrow Road''? (in inverted commars as I mean the road as in the road, not the stadium as in Carrow Road, although they are the same name so.......Oh Shut up Andy, they know what you mean....)[/quote]Yes, because if they double the height of the stand it will also expand in depth and will go over the road.

[AndyCanary 0]

[quote user="Posh Yella"]

There is some very dodgy maths going on in this thread.

10,000 new seats at £1500 a seat = £15m

£1500 per new seat pays for itself in 5 years

These statements are complete nonsense. To add 10k or even 5k seats would mean knocking down an existing stand and rebuilding those seats as well - you can''t just magic them in. Knock down the City Stand and build a 12000 seater stand in it''s place is 12000 x 1500 + cost of knocking down existing stand +  at least a years lost revenue = well who knows but at least £20m for just 8k extra seats. That is already £2.5k per seat without considering interest payments! With interest over the time it would take to pay for it you are looking at closer to £4k a seat.

Now my maths is dodgy as well but a tad more realistic than some of the posts on here.

[/quote]You need to read all the posts in the topic. Nobody is talking about knocking down any stand. Or closing off any seating areas.

[Mello Yello 2,279]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

Why don''t we expand the stadium with the requirements of all fans in mind. It''s quite obvious that there''s many fans who only want to see the game. The next time the stadium is expanded it should be done with these fans in mind. If the next stage is to put another tier on the City Stand then do this without all those expensive facilities. No bars or resturant facilities. Just a roof, seats and the minimum toilet facilities. Bog standard bogs if you like. A bit like the old South Stand before it was demolished. It''s about time the club started to consider the traditional grass roots fan rather than the sanitised version we have to "put up with" in the Jarrold.

[:O]

[/quote]

The only facilities I utilise in the City Stand, are my seat for the game and to use the loo before and after the game..... I don''t purchase food or drink within the stadium (or Morrison''s for that matter) and I do not purchase a programme, Golden Goal ticket - or have a bet.

I actually go to the game to watch and experience the match, have a chinwag with those around me - and then go to my fave City boozer for some ale and a laugh after full-time.

I can survive a 110+ minutes without having more than a quick couple of wazzes and can certainly cope without having a bland coffee/tea, a cardboard tasting lager - or the consumption of a  volcanic magma trendy pie - or pasty type sozzy roll pastry thingy.

If all supporters were like me......the club would now be 43million plus, in the red....

But, then again.....where would the club be without the quality infrastructure and amenities - or these fine people who are classed as sanitised fans?

We''d probably be like Swindon who have nothing like the facilities we have.....and who are only just in the play-off positions....Lucky us for having sanitised fans.

 

 

[Harleston Canary 0]

As mentioned by others, the real warning for any such plans can be found at the bottom of the A140. They mistakenly expanded Portman Road when their existing ground was over-flowing with glory-hunters as they had one good season in the Premier League.

The glory-hunters are long gone, and if I remember correctly they couldn''t even sell-out for the derby last year. At the risk of being shot-down, they have a very similar size fan-base (with less loyalty, granted). A bigger stadium with swathes of empty seats is not the same as a slightly smaller one, full to bursting.

The problem for us is that if you expand and remove the need for such large numbers of season-ticket holders (because they can buy game-by-game), this then causes cash-flow/budgeting problems for the club because they are less sure about their income season to season. This also, paradoxically, makes it less likely to be able to secure/finance any future borrowings because the ''security'' of some of the 19,000 season ticketholders and their funds is lost.

People may disagree, but I think we''d struggle to sell out a stadium much bigger than 28-29,000 capacity. An expansion to this size is not economically viable and would risk empty seats (albeit only 3-4000) for some of the less desirable games.

Raising ticket prices would have to be part of any financing package for an extension, and this would have the effect of reducing demand as well.

It all points to keeping a moderately-sized stadium that''s full every week. Let''s face it, if you plan ahead it''s quite easy for members and casual supporters to get to watch games during the year.

OTBC.

Let''s have a win tonight, especially if it leads to Bob Mills having a whinge about us next time he''s on Fighting Talk.

[AndyCanary 0]

[quote user="Mello Yello"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

Why don''t we expand the stadium with the requirements of all fans in mind. It''s quite obvious that there''s many fans who only want to see the game. The next time the stadium is expanded it should be done with these fans in mind. If the next stage is to put another tier on the City Stand then do this without all those expensive facilities. No bars or resturant facilities. Just a roof, seats and the minimum toilet facilities. Bog standard bogs if you like. A bit like the old South Stand before it was demolished. It''s about time the club started to consider the traditional grass roots fan rather than the sanitised version we have to "put up with" in the Jarrold.

[:O]

[/quote]

The only facilities I utilise in the City Stand, are my seat for the game and to use the loo before and after the game..... I don''t purchase food or drink within the stadium (or Morrison''s for that matter) and I do not purchase a programme, Golden Goal ticket - or have a bet.

I actually go to the game to watch and experience the match, have a chinwag with those around me - and then go to my fave City boozer for some ale and a laugh after full-time.

I can survive a 110+ minutes without having more than a quick couple of wazzes and can certainly cope without having a bland coffee/tea, a cardboard tasting lager - or the consumption of a  volcanic magma trendy pie - or pasty type sozzy roll pastry thingy.

If all supporters were like me......the club would now be 43million plus, in the red....

But, then again.....where would the club be without the quality infrastructure and amenities - or these fine people who are classed as sanitised fans?

We''d probably be like Swindon who have nothing like the facilities we have.....and who are only just in the play-off positions....Lucky us for having sanitised fans.

 [/quote]

The facilities are irrelivent. 10,000 more fans would buy 10,000 fans worth of food and drink which is highly profitable for the club and this would outweigh any costs for toilets etc.

The glory hunter argument isn''t really that strong as you say they were fighting strong in the Premier league when they extended.. we''re in League 1...

[nutty nigel 7,509]

[quote user="Mello Yello"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

Why don''t we expand the stadium with the requirements of all fans in mind. It''s quite obvious that there''s many fans who only want to see the game. The next time the stadium is expanded it should be done with these fans in mind. If the next stage is to put another tier on the City Stand then do this without all those expensive facilities. No bars or resturant facilities. Just a roof, seats and the minimum toilet facilities. Bog standard bogs if you like. A bit like the old South Stand before it was demolished. It''s about time the club started to consider the traditional grass roots fan rather than the sanitised version we have to "put up with" in the Jarrold.

[:O]

[/quote]

The only facilities I utilise in the City Stand, are my seat for the game and to use the loo before and after the game..... I don''t purchase food or drink within the stadium (or Morrison''s for that matter) and I do not purchase a programme, Golden Goal ticket - or have a bet.

I actually go to the game to watch and experience the match, have a chinwag with those around me - and then go to my fave City boozer for some ale and a laugh after full-time.

I can survive a 110+ minutes without having more than a quick couple of wazzes and can certainly cope without having a bland coffee/tea, a cardboard tasting lager - or the consumption of a  volcanic magma trendy pie - or pasty type sozzy roll pastry thingy.

If all supporters were like me......the club would now be 43million plus, in the red....

But, then again.....where would the club be without the quality infrastructure and amenities - or these fine people who are classed as sanitised fans?

We''d probably be like Swindon who have nothing like the facilities we have.....and who are only just in the play-off positions....Lucky us for having sanitised fans.

 

 

[/quote]

Well there''s a thing, Mello and nutty singing off the same hymn sheet. Perhaps we could sit next to eachother in this new bog standard stand. For gods sake keep it men only though. No women or children. We don''t want to see fathers with their children or grandparents with their grandchildren. They can go in the sanitary areas with the bars and the posh nosh. I was only telling Mr Carrow just the other day about my game in the Jarrold this season. There was a fan on a day out who didn''t even applaud our goals, I do know him but his name escapes me right now. And there was another guy I recognised with his son and an older guy, who I used to see around in the 60''s, with his grandson. These fans did applaud goals but didn''t get involved in the more passionate aspects of support like calling the ref and opposition players winkers[;)]. Yes, I''m looking for a new home and the bog standard stand is pressing all the right buttons for me.

 

[Mello Yello 2,279]

[quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="Mello Yello"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

Why don''t we expand the stadium with the requirements of all fans in mind. It''s quite obvious that there''s many fans who only want to see the game. The next time the stadium is expanded it should be done with these fans in mind. If the next stage is to put another tier on the City Stand then do this without all those expensive facilities. No bars or resturant facilities. Just a roof, seats and the minimum toilet facilities. Bog standard bogs if you like. A bit like the old South Stand before it was demolished. It''s about time the club started to consider the traditional grass roots fan rather than the sanitised version we have to "put up with" in the Jarrold.

[:O]

[/quote]

The only facilities I utilise in the City Stand, are my seat for the game and to use the loo before and after the game..... I don''t purchase food or drink within the stadium (or Morrison''s for that matter) and I do not purchase a programme, Golden Goal ticket - or have a bet.

I actually go to the game to watch and experience the match, have a chinwag with those around me - and then go to my fave City boozer for some ale and a laugh after full-time.

I can survive a 110+ minutes without having more than a quick couple of wazzes and can certainly cope without having a bland coffee/tea, a cardboard tasting lager - or the consumption of a  volcanic magma trendy pie - or pasty type sozzy roll pastry thingy.

If all supporters were like me......the club would now be 43million plus, in the red....

But, then again.....where would the club be without the quality infrastructure and amenities - or these fine people who are classed as sanitised fans?

We''d probably be like Swindon who have nothing like the facilities we have.....and who are only just in the play-off positions....Lucky us for having sanitised fans.

 

 

[/quote]

Well there''s a thing, Mello and nutty singing off the same hymn sheet. Perhaps we could sit next to eachother in this new bog standard stand. For gods sake keep it men only though. No women or children. We don''t want to see fathers with their children or grandparents with their grandchildren. They can go in the sanitary areas with the bars and the posh nosh. I was only telling Mr Carrow just the other day about my game in the Jarrold this season. There was a fan on a day out who didn''t even applaud our goals, I do know him but his name escapes me right now. And there was another guy I recognised with his son and an older guy, who I used to see around in the 60''s, with his grandson. These fans did applaud goals but didn''t get involved in the more passionate aspects of support like calling the ref and opposition players winkers[;)]. Yes, I''m looking for a new home and the bog standard stand is pressing all the right buttons for me.

 

[/quote]

yeah....

[nutty nigel 7,509]

[quote user="Mello Yello"][quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="Mello Yello"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

Why don''t we expand the stadium with the requirements of all fans in mind. It''s quite obvious that there''s many fans who only want to see the game. The next time the stadium is expanded it should be done with these fans in mind. If the next stage is to put another tier on the City Stand then do this without all those expensive facilities. No bars or resturant facilities. Just a roof, seats and the minimum toilet facilities. Bog standard bogs if you like. A bit like the old South Stand before it was demolished. It''s about time the club started to consider the traditional grass roots fan rather than the sanitised version we have to "put up with" in the Jarrold.

[:O]

[/quote]

The only facilities I utilise in the City Stand, are my seat for the game and to use the loo before and after the game..... I don''t purchase food or drink within the stadium (or Morrison''s for that matter) and I do not purchase a programme, Golden Goal ticket - or have a bet.

I actually go to the game to watch and experience the match, have a chinwag with those around me - and then go to my fave City boozer for some ale and a laugh after full-time.

I can survive a 110+ minutes without having more than a quick couple of wazzes and can certainly cope without having a bland coffee/tea, a cardboard tasting lager - or the consumption of a  volcanic magma trendy pie - or pasty type sozzy roll pastry thingy.

If all supporters were like me......the club would now be 43million plus, in the red....

But, then again.....where would the club be without the quality infrastructure and amenities - or these fine people who are classed as sanitised fans?

We''d probably be like Swindon who have nothing like the facilities we have.....and who are only just in the play-off positions....Lucky us for having sanitised fans.

 

 

[/quote]

Well there''s a thing, Mello and nutty singing off the same hymn sheet. Perhaps we could sit next to eachother in this new bog standard stand. For gods sake keep it men only though. No women or children. We don''t want to see fathers with their children or grandparents with their grandchildren. They can go in the sanitary areas with the bars and the posh nosh. I was only telling Mr Carrow just the other day about my game in the Jarrold this season. There was a fan on a day out who didn''t even applaud our goals, I do know him but his name escapes me right now. And there was another guy I recognised with his son and an older guy, who I used to see around in the 60''s, with his grandson. These fans did applaud goals but didn''t get involved in the more passionate aspects of support like calling the ref and opposition players winkers[;)]. Yes, I''m looking for a new home and the bog standard stand is pressing all the right buttons for me.

 

[/quote]

yeah....

[/quote]

Lovely old job[Y]

 

[Mr.Carrow 376]

[quote user="morty"][quote user="AndyCanary"][quote user="morty"]You only have to look at big grounds round the country that are half empty every week.
[/quote]

Geography comes into it a lot though. Look at all the big grounds that instantly spring to mind as being half empty...

Leeds > Not far from Man U, Man C, Liverpool
London clubs > goes without saying


Then look at Newcastle... they''re similar to us in terms of geography with Sunderland being like Ipswich are to us. (I.e the worse club in the league above despite have worse fans [;)]
[/quote]

It can also work against us though. Norfolk doesn''t have a massive population, the fact we get the crowds that we do now is nothing short of miraculous! In fact if you were to take the population of the county, and put that against the crowds we get I think you would be hard pushed to find a better locally supported club.

But could we find another 5 or 10,000 people to come week in, week out? I''m not so sure to be honest.
[/quote]

I don`t know how many times i`ve responded to baseless guff like this but here goes.....again:

Norfolk and the Waveney area of N.Suffolk have a population of over 1 million, and that`s not even taking into account the hundreds of supporters we draw from Bury/Cambridgeshire/South Lincolnshire etc.  Why on earth are 25,000 crowds from a catchment area of well over 1 million with virtually no competition from other clubs or high-profile sports "miraculous"??!

[morty 0]

[quote user="Mr.Carrow"]

[quote user="morty"][quote user="AndyCanary"][quote user="morty"]You only have to look at big grounds round the country that are half empty every week.[/quote]Geography comes into it a lot though. Look at all the big grounds that instantly spring to mind as being half empty...Leeds > Not far from Man U, Man C, LiverpoolLondon clubs > goes without saying

Then look at Newcastle... they''re similar to us in terms of geography with Sunderland being like Ipswich are to us. (I.e the worse club in the league above despite have worse fans [;)][/quote]It can also work against us though. Norfolk doesn''t have a massive population, the fact we get the crowds that we do now is nothing short of miraculous! In fact if you were to take the population of the county, and put that against the crowds we get I think you would be hard pushed to find a better locally supported club.But could we find another 5 or 10,000 people to come week in, week out? I''m not so sure to be honest.[/quote]

I don`t know how many times i`ve responded to baseless guff like this but here goes.....again:

Norfolk and the Waveney area of N.Suffolk have a population of over 1 million, and that`s not even taking into account the hundreds of supporters we draw from Bury/Cambridgeshire/South Lincolnshire etc.  Why on earth are 25,000 crowds from a catchment area of well over 1 million with virtually no competition from other clubs or high-profile sports "miraculous"??!

[/quote]Baseless guff?Lol.Your fancy facts and figures still don''t guarantee we will fill a 35k stadium. Miraculous due to the fact that attendances are plummeting elsewhere and we are playing in the third division.

[Mr.Carrow 376]

Morty, i don`t want to get into a silly slanging match so i apologise for the confrontational nature of my post- it just winds me up that i`ve probably posted the above 20 times on here yet it still doesn`t seem to sink in.  In terms of catchment area we are in a fantastic and enviable position and 25k per week is definately not miraculous.  If you compare us with more populous parts of the country, those other areas without exception have more clubs and sports fighting for the same pool of people- ie. Birmingham- 3million people with 6 football clubs, South Yorkshire- 1.2m people with 5 football clubs plus rugby.  We have over 1 million to ourselves- not bad huh?

The club has done well to market the itself over recent years, but the potential to grow has always been there- just not recognised by the predominant "little norwich" outlook so many ascribe to.

[BigFish 1,986]

[quote user="Mr.Carrow"]

Morty, i don`t want to get into a silly slanging match so i apologise for the confrontational nature of my post- it just winds me up that i`ve probably posted the above 20 times on here yet it still doesn`t seem to sink in.  In terms of catchment area we are in a fantastic and enviable position and 25k per week is definately not miraculous.  If you compare us with more populous parts of the country, those other areas without exception have more clubs and sports fighting for the same pool of people- ie. Birmingham- 3million people with 6 football clubs, South Yorkshire- 1.2m people with 5 football clubs plus rugby.  We have over 1 million to ourselves- not bad huh?

The club has done well to market the itself over recent years, but the potential to grow has always been there- just not recognised by the predominant "little norwich" outlook so many ascribe to.

[/quote][:P] Mr C - I thought you were dead against infrastructure spending.

[nutty nigel 7,509]

[quote user="BigFish"][quote user="Mr.Carrow"]

Morty, i don`t want to get into a silly slanging match so i apologise for the confrontational nature of my post- it just winds me up that i`ve probably posted the above 20 times on here yet it still doesn`t seem to sink in.  In terms of catchment area we are in a fantastic and enviable position and 25k per week is definately not miraculous.  If you compare us with more populous parts of the country, those other areas without exception have more clubs and sports fighting for the same pool of people- ie. Birmingham- 3million people with 6 football clubs, South Yorkshire- 1.2m people with 5 football clubs plus rugby.  We have over 1 million to ourselves- not bad huh?

The club has done well to market the itself over recent years, but the potential to grow has always been there- just not recognised by the predominant "little norwich" outlook so many ascribe to.

[/quote]

[:P] Mr C - I thought you were dead against infrastructure spending.
[/quote]

Only that which has been spent...

... not that we haven''t spent yet....

...I think [*-)]

 

 

[morty 0]

[quote user="Mr.Carrow"]

Morty, i don`t want to get into a silly slanging match so i apologise for the confrontational nature of my post- it just winds me up that i`ve probably posted the above 20 times on here yet it still doesn`t seem to sink in.  In terms of catchment area we are in a fantastic and enviable position and 25k per week is definately not miraculous.  If you compare us with more populous parts of the country, those other areas without exception have more clubs and sports fighting for the same pool of people- ie. Birmingham- 3million people with 6 football clubs, South Yorkshire- 1.2m people with 5 football clubs plus rugby.  We have over 1 million to ourselves- not bad huh?

The club has done well to market the itself over recent years, but the potential to grow has always been there- just not recognised by the predominant "little norwich" outlook so many ascribe to.

[/quote]That still does not guarantee we can put 35k bums on seats week in, week out.We may have a large population but that doesn''t mean they are all football fans. Its nothing to do with any "Little Norwich" outlook, its about borrowing money on a gamble that we may get bigger crowds, which no fancy figures or market demographics can definitely assure.And that is what is stopping us expanding, risk.

[BigFish 1,986]

[quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="BigFish"][quote user="Mr.Carrow"]

Morty, i don`t want to get into a silly slanging match so i apologise for the confrontational nature of my post- it just winds me up that i`ve probably posted the above 20 times on here yet it still doesn`t seem to sink in.  In terms of catchment area we are in a fantastic and enviable position and 25k per week is definately not miraculous.  If you compare us with more populous parts of the country, those other areas without exception have more clubs and sports fighting for the same pool of people- ie. Birmingham- 3million people with 6 football clubs, South Yorkshire- 1.2m people with 5 football clubs plus rugby.  We have over 1 million to ourselves- not bad huh?

The club has done well to market the itself over recent years, but the potential to grow has always been there- just not recognised by the predominant "little norwich" outlook so many ascribe to.

[/quote][:P] Mr C - I thought you were dead against infrastructure spending.[/quote]

Only that which has been spent...

... not that we haven''t spent yet....

...I think [*-)]

 [/quote]

Ah..........so we can borrow some more, take it out of the football budget etc[<:o)]

[Mr.Carrow 376]

[quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="BigFish"][quote user="Mr.Carrow"]

Morty, i don`t want to get into a silly slanging match so i apologise for the confrontational nature of my post- it just winds me up that i`ve probably posted the above 20 times on here yet it still doesn`t seem to sink in.  In terms of catchment area we are in a fantastic and enviable position and 25k per week is definately not miraculous.  If you compare us with more populous parts of the country, those other areas without exception have more clubs and sports fighting for the same pool of people- ie. Birmingham- 3million people with 6 football clubs, South Yorkshire- 1.2m people with 5 football clubs plus rugby.  We have over 1 million to ourselves- not bad huh?

The club has done well to market the itself over recent years, but the potential to grow has always been there- just not recognised by the predominant "little norwich" outlook so many ascribe to.

[/quote]

[:P] Mr C - I thought you were dead against infrastructure spending.
[/quote]

Only that which has been spent...

... not that we haven''t spent yet....

...I think [*-)]

 

 

[/quote]

I`ve never been against the building of the Jarrold stand but the infill should have waited.  I won`t list the other unneccessary stuff we wasted money on because you`ll only both ignore it again......

I`d love to see the ground expanded to 30k plus but i think that the new board members have got it right that we need at least two seasons in the Prem to be able to afford it.

When does the "We want Munby/Doncaster back" campaign start?  Or are you going to admit you`re glad they`ve gone?

[Mr.Carrow 376]

[quote user="BigFish"][quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="BigFish"][quote user="Mr.Carrow"]

Morty, i don`t want to get into a silly slanging match so i apologise for the confrontational nature of my post- it just winds me up that i`ve probably posted the above 20 times on here yet it still doesn`t seem to sink in.  In terms of catchment area we are in a fantastic and enviable position and 25k per week is definately not miraculous.  If you compare us with more populous parts of the country, those other areas without exception have more clubs and sports fighting for the same pool of people- ie. Birmingham- 3million people with 6 football clubs, South Yorkshire- 1.2m people with 5 football clubs plus rugby.  We have over 1 million to ourselves- not bad huh?

The club has done well to market the itself over recent years, but the potential to grow has always been there- just not recognised by the predominant "little norwich" outlook so many ascribe to.

[/quote]

[:P] Mr C - I thought you were dead against infrastructure spending.
[/quote]

Only that which has been spent...

... not that we haven''t spent yet....

...I think [*-)]

 [/quote]

Ah..........so we can borrow some more, take it out of the football budget etc[<:o)]

[/quote]

When you`ve so obviously lost the argument, make one up and argue against that.  Sad to see.

[nutty nigel 7,509]

[quote user="Mr.Carrow"]

I`ve never been against the building of the Jarrold stand but the infill should have waited.  I won`t list the other unneccessary stuff we wasted money on because you`ll only both ignore it again......

I`d love to see the ground expanded to 30k plus but i think that the new board members have got it right that we need at least two seasons in the Prem to be able to afford it.

When does the "We want Munby/Doncaster back" campaign start?  Or are you going to admit you`re glad they`ve gone?

[/quote]

Well, I don''t know about any "We want Munby/Doncaster back" campaigns but they were certainly partly responsible for the last time the ground was expanded. Unless it was only the Majority Shareholders.

Or Worthy?

 

[Mr.Carrow 376]

[quote user="morty"][quote user="Mr.Carrow"]

Morty, i don`t want to get into a silly slanging match so i apologise for the confrontational nature of my post- it just winds me up that i`ve probably posted the above 20 times on here yet it still doesn`t seem to sink in.  In terms of catchment area we are in a fantastic and enviable position and 25k per week is definately not miraculous.  If you compare us with more populous parts of the country, those other areas without exception have more clubs and sports fighting for the same pool of people- ie. Birmingham- 3million people with 6 football clubs, South Yorkshire- 1.2m people with 5 football clubs plus rugby.  We have over 1 million to ourselves- not bad huh?

The club has done well to market the itself over recent years, but the potential to grow has always been there- just not recognised by the predominant "little norwich" outlook so many ascribe to.

[/quote]

That still does not guarantee we can put 35k bums on seats week in, week out.

We may have a large population but that doesn''t mean they are all football fans. Its nothing to do with any "Little Norwich" outlook, its about borrowing money on a gamble that we may get bigger crowds, which no fancy figures or market demographics can definitely assure.

And that is what is stopping us expanding, risk.
[/quote]

Morty, i haven`t argued any of the above, i`ve just pointed out that to say that Norfolk has a small population and to get 25k each week is miraculous is just plain wrong.  It annoys me because i hear it so often and when i ask people what they base their opinion on, they haven`t got a clue!  It`s one of those things that has been repeated so many times that people assume it must be true, and then get angry when it`s pointed out that it`s actually a load of rubbish.  I remember Chase stating that "NCFC has a catchment area of 120,000 people and can never average more than 20k per game"- and an awful lot of people actually believed him.....[:|]

[morty 0]

[quote user="Mr.Carrow"][quote user="morty"][quote user="Mr.Carrow"]

Morty, i don`t want to get into a silly slanging match so i apologise for the confrontational nature of my post- it just winds me up that i`ve probably posted the above 20 times on here yet it still doesn`t seem to sink in.  In terms of catchment area we are in a fantastic and enviable position and 25k per week is definately not miraculous.  If you compare us with more populous parts of the country, those other areas without exception have more clubs and sports fighting for the same pool of people- ie. Birmingham- 3million people with 6 football clubs, South Yorkshire- 1.2m people with 5 football clubs plus rugby.  We have over 1 million to ourselves- not bad huh?

The club has done well to market the itself over recent years, but the potential to grow has always been there- just not recognised by the predominant "little norwich" outlook so many ascribe to.

[/quote]That still does not guarantee we can put 35k bums on seats week in, week out.We may have a large population but that doesn''t mean they are all football fans. Its nothing to do with any "Little Norwich" outlook, its about borrowing money on a gamble that we may get bigger crowds, which no fancy figures or market demographics can definitely assure.And that is what is stopping us expanding, risk.[/quote]

Morty, i haven`t argued any of the above, i`ve just pointed out that to say that Norfolk has a small population and to get 25k each week is miraculous is just plain wrong.  It annoys me because i hear it so often and when i ask people what they base their opinion on, they haven`t got a clue!  It`s one of those things that has been repeated so many times that people assume it must be true, and then get angry when it`s pointed out that it`s actually a load of rubbish.  I remember Chase stating that "NCFC has a catchment area of 120,000 people and can never average more than 20k per game"- and an awful lot of people actually believed him.....[:|]

[/quote]Its not about catchment area, its about how many people actually want to come to Norwich City week in, week out. Which you don''t know and neither do I.We could have ten million people living in Norwich and if only 25k of them want to come and watch football then thats your audience.So we get on average probably 23k home fans at each game, call it 25k for the sake of arguments and we had nearly a thousand on the waiting list for season tickets.Those figures don''t up to a whole lot more that 26k best scenario. Yes, we will get more for some Prem games but you can''t build a bigger stand on the off chance you will fill it 4 or 5 times a season.

[BigFish 1,986]

[quote user="Mr.Carrow"][quote user="BigFish"][quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="BigFish"][quote user="Mr.Carrow"]

Morty, i don`t want to get into a silly slanging match so i apologise for the confrontational nature of my post- it just winds me up that i`ve probably posted the above 20 times on here yet it still doesn`t seem to sink in.  In terms of catchment area we are in a fantastic and enviable position and 25k per week is definately not miraculous.  If you compare us with more populous parts of the country, those other areas without exception have more clubs and sports fighting for the same pool of people- ie. Birmingham- 3million people with 6 football clubs, South Yorkshire- 1.2m people with 5 football clubs plus rugby.  We have over 1 million to ourselves- not bad huh?

The club has done well to market the itself over recent years, but the potential to grow has always been there- just not recognised by the predominant "little norwich" outlook so many ascribe to.

[/quote][:P] Mr C - I thought you were dead against infrastructure spending.[/quote]

Only that which has been spent...

... not that we haven''t spent yet....

...I think [*-)]

 [/quote]

Ah..........so we can borrow some more, take it out of the football budget etc[<:o)]

[/quote]

When you`ve so obviously lost the argument, make one up and argue against that.  Sad to see.

[/quote]Well perhaps you should stop doing it then[:P]

[PurpleCanary 5,554]

[quote user="Mr.Carrow"]

I`d love to see the ground expanded to 30k plus but i think that the new board members have got it right that we need at least two seasons in the Prem to be able to afford it.

[/quote]Which, as it happens, is simply a continuation of the policy of the much-maligned old board. No change there at all.