Norwich The Face of Sanitisation

[kilroyslefteyebrow 0]

Please remember that to a Leeds fan EVERYONE they meet will appear to be ''upper-middle class'' as they will all have indoor toilets and electric lighting.

[Smudger 0]

haha what a bunch of idiots... living in the 70''s still... wake up it was 40 years ago (and you didn''t exactly win loads then - even Cloughies Derby County shown you how it should be done)...Leeds fans are not big, they ain''t hard, they are a bunch of thugs who swing punches that Ken Dodd with his tickling stick would do more damage and they get away with it because of their reputation.The whole country hates Leeds and think they are an utter p!ss take!I would rather be watching NCFC or Lowestoft Town several leagues below the conference than have the attitude of 90% of Leeds Utd fans (there are the odd few that are alright).

[morty 0]

Is it possible that they are so arrogant that they expect all of us to change to suit their "ideal" of what they think football should be like?

[Mister Chops 7]

[quote user="morty"]Is it possible that they are so arrogant that they expect all of us to change to suit their "ideal" of what they think football should be like?[/quote]To be fair, as they carry on sinking down the leagues sooner or later they will find their level.

[Smudger 0]

[quote user="chicken"]

In a way it has become sanitised but I doubt it has much to do with Sky. Football was being televised for a long time before Sky came along - they just paid more for it and televised more matches.

It was teams like Leeds that actually led to football being sanitised in the first place. Football was becoming unsafe - not just because of incidents like the Hillsborough disaster but also because of the behaviour of certain clubs fans. Leeds are up there with the Millwall and Wolves of the past of failing to control their fans both before and after games.

Football may never have used to have been the ''entertainment buisiness'' it is now but it was always a huge spectator sport. Some spectators went too far and that is the reason why it was sanitised. In fact I believe the ban on English clubs in Europe was one of the things that finally swung it. No point having great football teams if they can''t play some of Europes best.

As for Leeds commenting on Norwich - not sure how they can question it all when their own ''little'' club can''t even get the same number through the gates on a regular basis. And I seem to remember them all being family orientated and face paints galour when they were in the champions league when they had sold their heart and soul to the banker to get there . . . . nice.

[/quote]Great point Chicken... [Y]Also all seated stadia... love them or hate them had a big part to play.I have never agreed with the media and always thought that many who are up for trouble are also very passionate football fans (although there are a few numb nuts who are not interested in the footie - but not many in my eyes).  Obviously they would not wish to see their club hurt by their actions.

[Smudger 0]

[quote user="25overpar"]YORKSHIRE BITTER ANYONE?[/quote]Eww one of the nastiest things to come out of Yorkshire, apart from the majority of it''s grumpy, ignorant, testosterone fuelled males is without doubt Tetley Bitter! [+o(]

[Smudger 0]

[quote user="Beauseant"]

I think that there are two quite separate issues here. There is no doubt that going to football matches has become much safer and family friendly, although that in itself is a double edged sword. It''s great to see kids able to experience live football without feeling threatened, but at the same time there has been a massive increase in what I would regard as "casual" supporters who like the experience but don''t have any real feeling for the club. I regret the loss of terracing and the attendant closeness and empathy with your fellow fan, although, as Mister Chops points out, the feeling on Saturday when Chrissy scored was unbelievable and I actually hugged the stranger next to me in sheer joy. Nevertheless the removal of the hooligan threat and improved facilities is not to be criticised.

What bothers me much more is the sanitisation of the game ON the field, as the idiot Blatter continues his crusade to ban physical contact. Watching the two Champions League games involving English clubs this week it is obvious that the trend on the continent (and increasingly in the Premiership) is to simply fall to the ground when in a tight spot safe in the knowledge that a free kick will be forthcoming. Much of the passion engendered on the terraces stemmed from seeing one of our players crashing into a tackle or grappling with an equally physical opponent and coming out on top, but that is being systematically removed form the game. If you take passion from the field it will, in turn, take passion form the stands and I think that we are seeing that.

As for the Leeds comments, I really wouldn''t dwell on them. They lost and may not even go up. They have two choices; look criticially at themselves and theire team or erect a smokescreen. KK''s quotes suggest that they have gone for the latter. Their problem, not ours.

[/quote]Great post Beau... [Y]What a joke that booking on Fabergas was last night!I don''t expect that UEFA would ever overturn any decision or even look at it either.As for Leeds who cares whether they stay up or down?  They are a nothing club and we will finish above them next season too even if they do miraculously manage to scrape promotion through the play-offs.

[Smudger 0]

[quote user="BigFish"][quote user="Beauseant"][quote user="Shack Attack"][quote user="Beauseant"]

What bothers me much more is the sanitisation of the game ON the field, as the idiot Blatter continues his crusade to ban physical contact. Watching the two Champions League games involving English clubs this week it is obvious that the trend on the continent (and increasingly in the Premiership) is to simply fall to the ground when in a tight spot safe in the knowledge that a free kick will be forthcoming. Much of the passion engendered on the terraces stemmed from seeing one of our players crashing into a tackle or grappling with an equally physical opponent and coming out on top, but that is being systematically removed form the game. If you take passion from the field it will, in turn, take passion form the stands and I think that we are seeing that.

[/quote]

I actually think that you''ve got this one wrong Beau. Or at least you''re blaming the wrong people.

The game in England has always been more physical than the rest of Europe (with the exception of some other Northern European countries) with more emphasis placed on tackling and physical contact. The English teams who flourished in Europe in the ''70s and ''80s were always those who were more discliplined (Forest) or who played better football and could bend the rules in a more ''crafty'' fashion (Liverpool). These facets of their game made the different way in which games were refereed in Europe less of a problem to them.

What we''ve seen in the last five years or so is the implementation of a more European style of refereeing being brought into The Premiership but this has been at the behest of The FA rather than FIFA. Why has this been done? I don''t know to be honest (maybe to attract more big stars from around the world who previously may have been put off by our more physical style of football?) but it has led to a period of English dominance in Europe. Who knows, it may even benefit our players in the upcoming World Cup. The rules of the game themselves haven''t been changed that much. Overly aggressive tackling, or however it is worded in the rules, has always been a foul it''s just that English referees have traditionally overlooked it.

Although I sometimes despair at some of the things that go on in modern football I actually think that the fact the game has become less physical* is a good thing. I want to see the likes of Messi, Rooney and Ronaldo playing this summer without the possibility of them being kicked out of the tournament like Pele in ''66 or Maradona in ''82.

You make an interesting point on how the fans feed off the passion involved in a bone crunching 50/50 tackle but surely there are other aspects of the game to get passionate about. About thirty minutes into last nights game Jim Beglin said something along the lines of ''This is a great exhibition of passing but it''s lacking passion. What it needs is a couple of meaty challenges in the centre of the pitch''. I just don''t understand that point of view. If you can''t enjoy watching the type of football played by Barca in the first half last night then I would suggest you try watching a different sport Jim!

* ''Less physical'' doesn''t really sum up what I''m trying to say, in fact it sort of proves your argument correct [:$]. Perhaps ''less reckless'' would be a better way of describing it. If you go through the back of the centre forward and risk snapping his achilles then you deserve a yellow card regardless of whether it''s your first offence. When I started playing I was encouraged to give the forward a boot early on ''just to let him now you''re there'' (and I quite enjoyed doing it to be honest [;)]) but I''m glad it''s no longer allowed.

[/quote]

I''m not sure we''re actually disagreeing very much Shack, it''s more a question of degree. I certainly don''t hanker after the days when the Chopper Harrises and Norman Hunters of this world reigned supreme, and I remember as a 9 year old being reduced to tears at the brutality inflicted on Pele in 66. In my view the physical side of the game is an essential part of football as a spectacle, and whilst I accept that skill, great footwork and imagination are just as uplifting (and anyone who wasn''t captivated by watching Barca last night probably needs a head transplant) but the balance has been shifted much too far. Football is a contact sport, but it won''t be if this trend continues.

By the way, I take your point about the FA and FIFA, but I start to twitch if I don''t blame Blatter for something at regular intervals![:D]

[/quote]Interesting, and in many ways in agreement with the quoted Leeds views in spirit if not in meaning.Much of the response on this thread has been they called us names so lets call them ones and put it down to sour grapes. What prompts this reaction in some ways is the realisation that some of this is actually true. I guess no one would want to go back to this and yes younger posters that is the Barclay but it is undenaible that some of the magic has been lost along the way. If you have come to the club post Robert Chase this will be hard to understand but when I came to Carrow Road for the first time it was a strange and mysterious place, almost tribal, predominately male, smelling of smoke and stale alcolhol with a sense of danger (almost always entirely unfounded). The football was harder, more basic though often skilled, less athletic, rougher played by guys who lived amongst the fans and often went on to sell insurance, open newsagents & run pubs. There was more support but smaller crowds because people often picked theit matches so crowds could flex from 15k to 30k in the same season.All of this has gone and you can''t blame fans for missing it, whether it is to your taste or not.[/quote]Not much changed at all really... the police sat back watching it all go off as usual!Would rather that than or a modern day Carrow Road than this though Elland Road - Lack of Home fans V''s Derby 2006

[Bill 1,788]

I can understand where the Leeds fan is coming from, but that was then. The changes have not happened in isolation. Pubs were much the same, outside loos, more raucous and not so segmented as now. British Legion clubs at one end Riverside warehouses at the other with little between

One silly myth. Football is now a business, as if prior to the turn of the century it was all volunteers with no sponsors, no high wages, no admission charges etc. The difference now is the way business operates by trying to deliver a regular ''product''. No massive swings in attenances etc

Sadly that levelling out has removed nights like the cup semi final. However ''electric'' it was against Leeds they will never replicate those games of the 70'' and 60'' (and before I don''t doubt). There is not the intensity now of such a huge crowd packed into a small space. There was also the sense of the gritty underdog having a go at a big''un. Top flight football has robbed us of that feeling (whether good or bad is another debate).

A point that has to be understood is there is a far bigger percentage of the crowd who have never played the game, and I''m sorry to say, have often only a minimal understanding of the game. They are there for the spectacle rather than the game.

Does that matter. The game is played much the same irrespective of who''s watching and as already stated far better 25,000 watching that 8,000 ''real'' fans.

If there is one final point I would agree with our flat capped friend, that is allowing business to dictate our game. Business now determines WHEN games are played, it is trying to dictate HOW it is played through nonsense such as goal line cameras, bigger goals, lighter balls, game of 4 quarters.

It should not now dictate WHAT it is called. It is a linesman, a pass and we are not Aviva Norwich City - so lets stop dancing to their tune and remember it is the River End and The South Stand. Before any young''un squeaks ask yourself would you accept the Barclay being renamed the Morrison''s Stand, say ?

As to the more physical side of the game then that must return. Way back you could barge the keeper into the net if he was holding the ball. Bring that law back. A bit difficult if the keeper was on the edge of the box but none the less good fun to watch.

[Beauseant 0]

[quote user="City1st"]I can understand where the Leeds fan is coming from, but that was then. The changes have not happened in isolation. Pubs were much the same, outside loos, more raucous and not so segmented as now. British Legion clubs at one end Riverside warehouses at the other with little between One silly myth. Football is now a business, as if prior to the turn of the century it was all volunteers with no sponsors, no high wages, no admission charges etc. The difference now is the way business operates by trying to deliver a regular ''product''. No massive swings in attenances etc Sadly that levelling out has removed nights like the cup semi final. However ''electric'' it was against Leeds they will never replicate those games of the 70'' and 60'' (and before I don''t doubt). There is not the intensity now of such a huge crowd packed into a small space. There was also the sense of the gritty underdog having a go at a big''un. Top flight football has robbed us of that feeling (whether good or bad is another debate). A point that has to be understood is there is a far bigger percentage of the crowd who have never played the game, and I''m sorry to say, have often only a minimal understanding of the game. They are there for the spectacle rather than the game. Does that matter. The game is played much the same irrespective of who''s watching and as already stated far better 25,000 watching that 8,000 ''real'' fans. If there is one final point I would agree with our flat capped friend, that is allowing business to dictate our game. Business now determines WHEN games are played, it is trying to dictate HOW it is played through nonsense such as goal line cameras, bigger goals, lighter balls, game of 4 quarters. It should not now dictate WHAT it is called. It is a linesman, a pass and we are not Aviva Norwich City - so lets stop dancing to their tune and remember it is the River End and The South Stand. Before any young''un squeaks ask yourself would you accept the Barclay being renamed the Morrison''s Stand, say ? As to the more physical side of the game then that must return. Way back you could barge the keeper into the net if he was holding the ball. Bring that law back. A bit difficult if the keeper was on the edge of the box but none the less good fun to watch.[/quote]

 

Excellent post[Y]

[Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB 1,023]

Whilst the Leeds fans comments are clearly fuelled by bitterness. they do resonate with me. Anybody who knows me will tell you that I am football crazy, and have been from a very young age...however I find myself slowly falling out of love with football.

Do not get me wrong I do not believe in living in the past, but there are aspects of the modern game that make me despair:

All seater stadia, personally I believe the fans should have a choice whether they sit or stand, the only reason they are not is not a question of safety but a question of money, basically football clubs can charge you much more for having a tiny bit of plastic under your backside. If you disagree with the safety question, explain to me why the modern stadia in the Bundesliga have large terracing areas? The only time German sides have to have all seater stadia is when they are playing in European competitions.

Sky TV - Basically they have made the rich teams richer and the gulf between them and the rest of the teams so huge that it is getting boring. The question of who is going to win the Premiership comes down to Chelsea, Arsenal, Man Utd err thats it, for goodness sake pundits are getting excited over who wil get "the 4th Champions League spot"!!. The same goes for the FA Cup and League Cup, there is a 99% chance that the finals will be an all Premiership affair. Gone are the days when a team like Wimbledon can progress through from non league football to win the FA Cup, some of you may not care, but I do.

The Champions League - My arse!!, they should name it "The Team That Finished 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th In Their Domestic League League"

Franchise - Do not even get me started on MK Dons, you may not think it matters, but how would you feel if the worst happened and we went out of existence and some franchise popped up in darkest Kent calling themselves "RTW Canaries", fine if you live in that neck of the woods but what about the rest of us?

[blahblahblah 2]

Great post SoB - the only thing I''d argue with is that it''s still possible to come from nothing to do well, if not to win something.  Hull came from old division 4 to Premiership in about 10 seasons.

[dylanisabaddog 4,911]

Reminds me of an old saying.  You can always tell a Yorkshireman, but you can''t tell him much.I''ve read the views of the Leeds fans twice now.  I couldn''t quite believe my eyes the first time.  Thank God I live in Norfolk!I lived through football in the 70''s and 80''s when idiots like this brought our game to its knees. I saw us play at Leeds in the early 80''s when their fans booed their own manager (Jimmy Armfield) because he had the guts to go on the pitch with a microphone and ask them to behave like human beings. They had wreaked havoc somewhere the week before. The Leeds fans on Saturday were an unhappy reminder of those times but the rest of the world has moved on.  It appears that Leeds hasn''t.Physcology students would probably say that people like this make up for a feeling of inadequacey when faced with a civilised environment in the only way they know how, by lashing out.  Everyone else just thinks that they''re a bunch of *****

[blahblahblah 2]

I guess the problem I have with that post is that they are saying "look at them, they used to be like us, but they''ve gone corporate and soft."  The fact is we were never like them, most clubs have never been.

[Old Shuck 183]

"Is the game ever going to go back to being packed tight on a filthy terrace, a crowd that is almost exclusively bolkes aged 16-50''ish, white, working class, content to piss down their programme and onto the terrace?"

LOL, I don''t think he/she is harking back with fondness for those days, its more of a glad acceptance that it ISN''T like that anymore and you have to move on!

But interesting and some saliant points in amongst the "we are real fans" nonsense.

I think one major issue with them is that, for a long time, we were never their rivals, not even their contemporaries, and, often, just another club in a lower division-now we are, at present, very clearly a club that is their equal at worse and moving up and away from them.

[Clever Farke 64]

I''d rather they were Leeds fans in the conference too. I take everything they say as a compliment to our club and supporters and am proud that Norwich have welcomed a the new demographic of football supporters and that it is a safe place for them all, kids with face paint and sexy chics, excellent I say! If they want to live in that dark pre- Hillsborough era then they are welcome to it - just make sure it is in the conference and well away from us. Cavemen.

[Wembley_Canary 0]

[quote user="book end"]

I''d rather they were Leeds fans in the conference too. I take everything they say as a compliment to our club and supporters and am proud that Norwich have welcomed a the new demographic of football supporters and that it is a safe place for them all, kids with face paint and sexy chics, excellent I say! If they want to live in that dark pre- Hillsborough era then they are welcome to it - just make sure it is in the conference and well away from us. Cavemen.

[/quote]

Agreed, if they want to live in past and act like everyone else around them is in the wrong then that''s their problem, I say embrace modern football and stop being such a whinge bag.

[Houston Canary 0]

Good point. When the Cro-magnons switched to sharper tipped spears, the neanderthals were left to wallow in their faded glories as the world past them by. By the time they realized they could not continue in their ways, it was too late for them and they got relegated. For good.

[ROBFLECK 132]

[quote user="Beauseant"]

I think that there are two quite separate issues here. There is no doubt that going to football matches has become much safer and family friendly, although that in itself is a double edged sword. It''s great to see kids able to experience live football without feeling threatened, but at the same time there has been a massive increase in what I would regard as "casual" supporters who like the experience but don''t have any real feeling for the club. I regret the loss of terracing and the attendant closeness and empathy with your fellow fan, although, as Mister Chops points out, the feeling on Saturday when Chrissy scored was unbelievable and I actually hugged the stranger next to me in sheer joy. Nevertheless the removal of the hooligan threat and improved facilities is not to be criticised.

What bothers me much more is the sanitisation of the game ON the field, as the idiot Blatter continues his crusade to ban physical contact. Watching the two Champions League games involving English clubs this week it is obvious that the trend on the continent (and increasingly in the Premiership) is to simply fall to the ground when in a tight spot safe in the knowledge that a free kick will be forthcoming. Much of the passion engendered on the terraces stemmed from seeing one of our players crashing into a tackle or grappling with an equally physical opponent and coming out on top, but that is being systematically removed form the game. If you take passion from the field it will, in turn, take passion form the stands and I think that we are seeing that.

As for the Leeds comments, I really wouldn''t dwell on them. They lost and may not even go up. They have two choices; look criticially at themselves and theire team or erect a smokescreen. KK''s quotes suggest that they have gone for the latter. Their problem, not ours.

[/quote] That''s about my opinion Beau'' ... I love the club through and through and I know a lot about it and was 8 years old when I took place on the terraces behind the iron bars that used to seperate us from the pitch. I even remember these at the Den when I went over there in ''89... I agree there are loads of casual "supporters", if they are this name worthy... I know that NCFC fans stick by their team , wathever the situation is, and that is why I love the club!!! I''ll always be a fan,... because we still have real fans the full houses at CR prove that

[gazzathegreat 0]

Poor old Leeds, you have got to love ''em! Is it just sour grapes, no I think some of them genuinely believe that the rest of football is foreign to them and their way is the right way. For goodness sake, some of them think they are still European Champions!

Like many contributors to this thread I have experienced football in the 70s and 80s. Whilst there is much of it I embraced (after all I must have liked it or I wouldn''t still be going!) there are many many things which have improved it, but as in all walks of life, much has improved in general.

To the Leeds ''fan'' who waxes lyrically about those attending in the old days, he sounds just like a rather tired BNP candidate. Back in the 70s were plenty of kids going (most of us posting on here for a start!), older people and women - what did the women of Leeds get up to on a Saturday afternoon in the 70s I wonder!

After witnessing the aftermath of last Saturday, I can only count my blessings and thank God I wasn''t born in Leeds, to be a decent human being supporting that club must be hard work, then and now. If it pleases them to behave like thugs (animals are superior in every way) then they throughly deserve their fate of watching League One forever, the Leeds fans I know personally despise these so called hard men, and the reputation their club has.

There are some things precious about my memories of Carrow Road, and I am sure we can all say the same. I don''t like the sponsored names of the stands, the N and P is and always will be the River End, likewise the South Stand and I can only wonder what would happen should there come a time an attempt is made to rename the Barclay. When I look at the ground now, yes it''s changed but I will always remember it as it was on my first visit, I remember the games and the songs and the feeling of belonging. Is it one big happy family? Yes when we are doing well (more recently it''s been anything but). Are we tribal? Yes, but some of us have respect for other tribes and behave accordingly. Are we happy clappy? Yes, there are fans who go with very little knowledge of our history (we can pin that one on Leeds too).

There are those who go for a ''good day out'' but haven''t we always done that, perhaps we just express things differently now.

Those that know me and are not football fans cannot understand the passion and love I have for Norwich City. It''s something, if you are lucky you fall into, perhaps accidentally and it''s with you for life. While you may not accept bad and lean times, you hope for the future.

Would I go to Elland Road again, not on your life, four visits over the years, all typically unpleasant experiences, though not on the scale of Wolverhampton. There you go Leeds fans, you are not as bad as you think.

[Farkes The Herald Angels 0]

Having read through all the responses to my original post it''s even more patently obvious that this is a club with a really unique soul and character. Not that I doubted it, but the depth of the responses reinforces it. Makes me feel even more proud to have been smitten by NCFC-ness when I went to my first match over 40 years (box to stand on, rosette on jacket and a rattle my dad made).

[BlyBlyBabes 0]

[quote user="Smudger"]haha what a bunch of idiots... living in the 70''s still... wake up it was 40 years ago (and you didn''t exactly win loads then - even Cloughies Derby County shown you how it should be done)...

Leeds fans are not big, they ain''t hard, they are a bunch of thugs who swing punches that Ken Dodd with his tickling stick would do more damage and they get away with it because of their reputation.

The whole country hates Leeds and think they are an utter p!ss take!

I would rather be watching NCFC or Lowestoft Town several leagues below the conference than have the attitude of 90% of Leeds Utd fans (there are the odd few that are alright).
[/quote]

Now that''s a fair weather supporter!!!!!!!!

[;)]

OTBC

[7rew 0]

I feel the need to face up to that kind of criticism with "So what if I am middle class, so what if I grew up in a family that didn''t like football and so didn''t discover it until very late. That doesn''t make me less of a fan than you, you smelly under educated Yorkshire oik."

Unfortunately I actually just tutted. Some things are just too ingrained.

[Bill 1,788]

"rosette on jacket" bah, middle upper class affection

As to a box to stand on. Luxury. I remember there used to thirteen of us huddled on an upturned milk crate watching through a gap in the Barclay/Main Stand gate.

As to a rattle, we were lucky if we had a set of clothes made from old copies of the pinkun, but we were happy. A far sight happier than kids are today with their wi-pods, family enclosures and bmx boxes.

[WeAreYellows49 0]

[quote user="gazzathegreat"]Poor old Leeds, you have got to love ''em! Is it just sour grapes, no I think some of them genuinely believe that the rest of football is foreign to them and their way is the right way. For goodness sake, some of them think they are still European Champions! Like many contributors to this thread I have experienced football in the 70s and 80s. Whilst there is much of it I embraced (after all I must have liked it or I wouldn''t still be going!) there are many many things which have improved it, but as in all walks of life, much has improved in general. To the Leeds ''fan'' who waxes lyrically about those attending in the old days, he sounds just like a rather tired BNP candidate. Back in the 70s were plenty of kids going (most of us posting on here for a start!), older people and women - what did the women of Leeds get up to on a Saturday afternoon in the 70s I wonder! After witnessing the aftermath of last Saturday, I can only count my blessings and thank God I wasn''t born in Leeds, to be a decent human being supporting that club must be hard work, then and now. If it pleases them to behave like thugs (animals are superior in every way) then they throughly deserve their fate of watching League One forever, the Leeds fans I know personally despise these so called hard men, and the reputation their club has. There are some things precious about my memories of Carrow Road, and I am sure we can all say the same. I don''t like the sponsored names of the stands, the N and P is and always will be the River End, likewise the South Stand and I can only wonder what would happen should there come a time an attempt is made to rename the Barclay. When I look at the ground now, yes it''s changed but I will always remember it as it was on my first visit, I remember the games and the songs and the feeling of belonging. Is it one big happy family? Yes when we are doing well (more recently it''s been anything but). Are we tribal? Yes, but some of us have respect for other tribes and behave accordingly. Are we happy clappy? Yes, there are fans who go with very little knowledge of our history (we can pin that one on Leeds too). There are those who go for a ''good day out'' but haven''t we always done that, perhaps we just express things differently now. Those that know me and are not football fans cannot understand the passion and love I have for Norwich City. It''s something, if you are lucky you fall into, perhaps accidentally and it''s with you for life. While you may not accept bad and lean times, you hope for the future. Would I go to Elland Road again, not on your life, four visits over the years, all typically unpleasant experiences, though not on the scale of Wolverhampton. There you go Leeds fans, you are not as bad as you think.[/quote]

Fantastic post as always

[lappinitup 629]

[quote user="City1st"]we were lucky if we had a set of clothes made from old copies of the pinkun[/quote]One turnip used to feed  us for a week and my dad used to make me shoes from what was left over[:(]

[Leedscanary 337]

[quote user="gazzathegreat"]After witnessing the aftermath of last Saturday, I can only count my blessings and thank God I wasn''t born in Leeds, to be a decent human being supporting that club must be hard work, then and now. If it pleases them to behave like thugs (animals are superior in every way) then they throughly deserve their fate of watching League One forever, the Leeds fans I know personally despise these so called hard men, and the reputation their club has.[/quote]Great post Gazza, as ever, and as the above quote illustrates, I was "one of the unfortunates" [:)] - however they had lost my support after what my dad told me about the club when I was very young. He was a 3rd generation season ticket holder before I was born, but stopped going because of the trouble. I begged and begged my old man to take me to the football, but he always refused. From that day I vowed never to follow Leeds Utd, and ended up supporting City. Best thing that ever happened, thanks dad. The irony is I took him to Carrow road in the late 90''s and he loved it!

[Bill 1,788]

A turnip, a whole turnip. We used to dream of such extravagance.

We didn''t even know what a swede was ''til Svensson turned up.

Ruddy middle classes, taking over our game ............ ''appen.

[Rudolph Hucker 0]

I have some special memories of the 70''s but that was in a different society to todays.

Without going into detail, football reflected our decaying post industrial landscape.

That said, more children could afford to go to games. Today, Norwich City are exceptional in this respect, at many grounds the crowd is full of middle aged men on their own. The only thing that keeps me on my own at City is the fact I cannot get a spare seat near mine.

But also in the 70''s there were not the same social problems of today. Yes, there was fighting but the youths involved went home to both parents and a hot meal more often than not and the drug scene was on a different scale.

We are better off as a society, but less happy. Isn''t that odd?

I hate the Sky and benefactor imbalance in football but I like the media coverage. Having said that, the one view you got of a Gerry Harrison commentary of highlights was treasured like Disney Time on a Good Friday.

For all her faults Delia has always worked to keep Norwich City as a community club. We have the fan base we do because anyone born and bred in this county and many people who come to live here have a great civic love of the place whereas in many parts of the country it is somewhere to aspire to get away from rather than aspire to return to, and usually for the children.

The difference between Leeds and Norwich is as plain as the difference between waccoe and PinkUn. You can show as much extreem passion as you like in the form of overt language but what do you do when the choice of expletives runs out or everyone else just becomes immune to them?

I thought Leeds were all huff and puff, with one ball for Beckford and little else. They reflect their fans attitude in this, but in the end you need something else beside hard work....you need to work smart too.

As for sanitised.......a ground with so many empty seats looks more sterile than a ground full of largely undemonstrative, slow to rouse but sincere Norfolk folk.

I know which I prefer, and if you disagree I won''t feel the need to turn violent to make myself feel vindicated.

[willynaylor 0]

Some interesting anti-Leeds thoughts on here.

You may or may not have seen me post, but me and essex white try and offer up reasoned debate...the way you guys have stormed the league and literally pissed all over us has been very impressive.

Lots of Leeds fans have a problem at with how Elland Rd now is very sanitised, passionless and lacking atmosphere. Thats not to say it should go back to the bad old days of causing trouble for visiting fans as soon as they step off the train at Leeds Central, but many of us do hanker for the return of terracing.

As someone said, football is now classless and of course thats important for the future of football. But lets face it, even though football was pretty bankrupt in the 80s, is it much better now? The horrendous influence of $ky, and the egos and attitude that go with it...huge ticket prices, even bigger debt, foreign owners, the decline of the England national side.

Leeds fans are angry that we''re paying high prices to watch a mediocre team in a mediocre league, and teams like Brentford, Walsall are coming and enjoying themselves when we should be rubbing their noses in it.

its been a nightmare of a season for us, and feelings are running high