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No.74

Whitbread on Saturday?

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How do people rate Whitbread''s performance on Saturday?  I wasn''t at the game, but it looks like he should have done better in the run up to their goal, and again almost come unstuck towards the end of the highlights.Is this just unkind editing on the video or did he have a ''rusty'' game?  I appreciate he has had very little football all season, but it seems many have him pencilled in as first choice centre half next season and I wondered whether he disappointed a tad?

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Tensioned performance but will see a lot more from him..especially if you read what fans of charlton and leeds who came across him last year,think of him!...Some one once told me the worse debut by a player for us was steve bruce who constantly gave the ball away,lost nearly all the challanges and headering was diabolical..but after that he came on trundles! :)

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He looked rusty, as anyone would having hardly played all season. He was at fault for the goal and was barged off a bouncing  ball in the second half, but he also looked comfortable in possession, decent in the air, highly mobile and strong in the tackle. Inevitably he got better as the game went on, although Doc will, I''m sure, return on Saturday if fit.

Whitbread will be a very good player for us when fully match fit. He needs a full pre season and then, I suspect, he''ll start to live up to the high opinion that people within the camp have of him. What excites me is that he looks like an Alan Hansen type of centre back, capable of carrying the ball out and setting up attacks.

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Like the Doc has on occasions, he made a few mistakes. If fit and with games I think he''d be a better player which is not to say I don''t appreciate the job the Doc has done this year.

I reckon, Doc won''t be here next year unless he takes a pay cut

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On the assumption we get promoted I''m convinced Doc will still be here. I think the only occasion where he wouldn''t is if we don''t get promoted and then have to choose between having Whitbread and Doc (a choice Lambo has clearly already made).

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He wasn''t good on Monday but he clearly offers us a different type of centre back to Doc/Askou/ Nelson. As he is clearly more comfortable on the ball than the other 3 and is happy to move forward with it and find a pass. I am hoping that when he is fully fit that he defends a bit better as it would be good to have someone at the back who can pass it, instead of lumping it forward aimlessly.

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[quote user="Longy"]He wasn''t good on Monday but he clearly offers us a different type of centre back to Doc/Askou/ Nelson. As he is clearly more comfortable on the ball than the other 3 and is happy to move forward with it and find a pass. I am hoping that when he is fully fit that he defends a bit better as it would be good to have someone at the back who can pass it, instead of lumping it forward aimlessly.


[/quote]

Apart from Doc is fine on the ball and passes it around well.

I''m sure Zak will be good as well though.

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[quote user="Beauseant"]

He looked rusty, as anyone would having hardly played all season. He was at fault for the goal and was barged off a bouncing  ball in the second half, but he also looked comfortable in possession, decent in the air, highly mobile and strong in the tackle. Inevitably he got better as the game went on, although Doc will, I''m sure, return on Saturday if fit.

Whitbread will be a very good player for us when fully match fit. He needs a full pre season and then, I suspect, he''ll start to live up to the high opinion that people within the camp have of him. What excites me is that he looks like an Alan Hansen type of centre back, capable of carrying the ball out and setting up attacks.

[/quote]

Spot on in my opinion. He gives a new dimension to the defense that we haven''t had in a long time. A centre back who is capable and isn''t afraid of carrying the ball up past the halfway line. If he did at all, he must have only hoofed the ball once or twice all game. It also took him until the 32nd odd minute for him to misplace a pass. Well, that was the first one me and my mate noticed.

He was at fault for the first goal but he was also just as responsible for the second goal. Had he not been at that far post and battled to keep the ball in (when everyone thought it had crossed the touchline) we wouldn''t have got that second goal.

He did make a mistake, he didn''t excel, but he did show glimpses of what we may have and (aside from the goal) I was very very impressed with his positioning and playing off the shoulder of Nelson to make sure he got the ball out effectively each and every time. A welcome addition to the team given a few games.

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[quote user="Barclaybred"]Tensioned performance but will see a lot more from him..especially if you read what fans of charlton and leeds who came across him last year,think of him!...Some one once told me the worse debut by a player for us was steve bruce who constantly gave the ball away,lost nearly all the challanges and headering was diabolical..but after that he came on trundles! :)[/quote]

 

I think Bruce also scored an own goal on his debut, 3 all draw with Liverpool?

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He was obviously a little rusty, but that big fella up front for Stockport put himself about a bit and it got to Whitbread in the first half.

Second half he looked much better, good positioning some good headers and also can take the ball out of defence (although I must say the Doc has got better at this)

 

My question is: what has happened to Askou?  Looked like an awesome centre back first 20 games (our Vidic!) a tendency to hoof but certainly no nonsense and great in the air.  Does lambert not rate him?  Nelson has done well but in my opinion Askou looks better and more suited to Championship.

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Whitbread has the potential to be one of City''s best ever centre backs, according to Ian Crook. Well this is what Chris Lakey quoted Crook as saying on Radio Norfolk.

However, Ian Crook''s knowledge of defending could written on the back of a stamp. He does know about passing though, and we do need defenders capable of distributing the ball.

On Saturday I thought Whitbread got outmuscled too often and went wandering a bit too much. Match experience and time at the gym should improve him.

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[quote user="Pabs"]

He was obviously a little rusty, but that big fella up front for Stockport put himself about a bit and it got to Whitbread in the first half.

Second half he looked much better, good positioning some good headers and also can take the ball out of defence (although I must say the Doc has got better at this)

 

My question is: what has happened to Askou?  Looked like an awesome centre back first 20 games (our Vidic!) a tendency to hoof but certainly no nonsense and great in the air.  Does lambert not rate him?  Nelson has done well but in my opinion Askou looks better and more suited to Championship.

[/quote]

Askou is injured again, isn''t he?

Although we haven''t really missed him. Think he''ll find it hard to get into the team now.

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[quote user="Pyro Pete"]Whitbread has the potential to be one of City''s best ever centre backs, according to Ian Crook. Well this is what Chris Lakey quoted Crook as saying on Radio Norfolk.

However, Ian Crook''s knowledge of defending could written on the back of a stamp. He does know about passing though, and we do need defenders capable of distributing the ball.

On Saturday I thought Whitbread got outmuscled too often and went wandering a bit too much. Match experience and time at the gym should improve him.[/quote]

bar the obvious mistake on saturday Whitbread must have been rusty (as you''ve all said)...I''m sure he''ll work out fine as just what we need. From what i''ve seen of him and to copy the jist of another current thread, he''s got the Callum Daventport''s about him (although not as fast) and that ain''t a bad thing.

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I think Zak is a good signing. Give him a break, a few games to grow in the team. No he''s not up to the standards of a few of our other defenders, but I think he''ll do OK

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I''m convinced (injuries aside) Zak will be at the heart of our defence next year along side Nelson or Askou

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IMO Zak is the best centre  back we have at the club by a garden mile & will prove so in time!.

 For christs sake get off his back, his first start of the season granted hes made a mistake for their goal but how many has the mighty Doc made over the years? yeah thats right MANY that has seen us relegated this standard of football for the first time in fifty years and made one at Tranmere on Good Friday!

Zak is far more composed with the ball at his feet, a better passer of the ball, better in the air than Doc or Nelson, expect to see  out of the current personel if still available next season Zak & Askou be the regular starters. Nelson is a Div 1 player at best and will be murdered in the championship and Doc has always struggled at this level for pace, I for one would not be suprised if Doc is here next year anyway as he is surely one of our best paid players at the club and is out of contract in the summer and possibly Lambert is thinking he can get a far better centre back for Docs salary?!?!

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Being fair to Zak, his first half performance was poor, but he really did improve after half time.Reminds me a bit of Eddy when he joined us. He had a fairly poor first game (2nd half at Bradford), but from then on he was marvellous. (Not that I guarantee ZakW will be [:)])

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Whitbread was being covered by a player aparently with far less ability - Michael Nelson!

 

His mistake led to Stockports goal, he looked slow and rusty and his passing wasn''t the best!

 

Whitbreads a good back up player but he is a fair way behind messrs Doc and Nelson!

 

But of course urban myth says that the Doc and Nelson aren''t very good and slow while Whitbread will be a regular soon!

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[quote user="Pyro Pete"]Whitbread has the potential to be one of City''s best ever centre backs, according to Ian Crook. Well this is what Chris Lakey quoted Crook as saying on Radio Norfolk. However, Ian Crook''s knowledge of defending could written on the back of a stamp. He does know about passing though, and we do need defenders capable of distributing the ball. On Saturday I thought Whitbread got outmuscled too often and went wandering a bit too much. Match experience and time at the gym should improve him.[/quote]

I''m sure Crook played at the top level long enough to see what makes a good defender better than the people on this message board, yes his own strengths might not have been defending but he will have played/trained with and against some top level defenders over his time. Whitbread has been missing for such a long time this season he''s bound to struggle at times against players who have been up and running all season. Millwall fans seem to rate him and i dont see them being keen on him if they though he would be outmuscled or would pussyfoot around in a tackle, so i''d expect to see a very different player when fit and having a run in the side.

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[quote user="Gazza"]

For christs sake get off his back, his first start of the season granted hes made a mistake for their goal but how many has the mighty Doc made over the years? yeah thats right MANY that has seen us relegated this standard of football for the first time in fifty years and made one at Tranmere on Good Friday!

Zak is far more composed with the ball at his feet, a better passer of the ball, better in the air than Doc or Nelson, expect to see  out of the current personel if still available next season Zak & Askou be the regular starters. Nelson is a Div 1 player at best and will be murdered in the championship and Doc has always struggled at this level for pace, I for one would not be suprised if Doc is here next year anyway as he is surely one of our best paid players at the club and is out of contract in the summer and possibly Lambert is thinking he can get a far better centre back for Docs salary?!?!

[/quote]

What a surprise someone with blinkers on when talking about Doc. It is quite clear since Lambert has come into management here the Doc has been rejuvenated and has shown a lot of confidence. If you actually watch Doc this season his cross field balls from the back have been superb as well as chipping in with 6 goals putting him as the highest scorer after the front 3.

Also concerning Whitbread I hope he does really well for us (who wouldn''t) but he was shocking on saturday and it isn''t like he has been locked up in a dark room away from a football this season. He has been able to practice with the rest of the squad, yet his positional play was atrocious and never looked to pass the ball quickly and get things moving.

I''m sure whitbread will improve with match time, but I don''t understand why we can''t analyse a performance by one of our players just because he hasn''t played much this season?

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What game was u watching legand? he was far from shocking ok he made a mistake....like doc did on friday eve every player makes mistakes........just get over it hes here to stay wether you like it or not.............lamberts the boss and he knows best.

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[quote user="Legend Iwan"][quote user="Gazza"]

For christs sake get off his back, his first start of the season granted hes made a mistake for their goal but how many has the mighty Doc made over the years? yeah thats right MANY that has seen us relegated this standard of football for the first time in fifty years and made one at Tranmere on Good Friday!

Zak is far more composed with the ball at his feet, a better passer of the ball, better in the air than Doc or Nelson, expect to see  out of the current personel if still available next season Zak & Askou be the regular starters. Nelson is a Div 1 player at best and will be murdered in the championship and Doc has always struggled at this level for pace, I for one would not be suprised if Doc is here next year anyway as he is surely one of our best paid players at the club and is out of contract in the summer and possibly Lambert is thinking he can get a far better centre back for Docs salary?!?!

[/quote]

What a surprise someone with blinkers on when talking about Doc. It is quite clear since Lambert has come into management here the Doc has been rejuvenated and has shown a lot of confidence. If you actually watch Doc this season his cross field balls from the back have been superb as well as chipping in with 6 goals putting him as the highest scorer after the front 3.

Also concerning Whitbread I hope he does really well for us (who wouldn''t) but he was shocking on saturday and it isn''t like he has been locked up in a dark room away from a football this season. He has been able to practice with the rest of the squad, yet his positional play was atrocious and never looked to pass the ball quickly and get things moving.

I''m sure whitbread will improve with match time, but I don''t understand why we can''t analyse a performance by one of our players just because he hasn''t played much this season?

[/quote]

Blinkers?! Did you watch the game versus Tranmere?. Yeah ok Doc has performed OK this year and is certainly no world beater but lets remember we are in Div 3 and he certainly seems to have found his level!

How many mistakes did he make on a regular basis in the championship? yeah thats right quite a few so perhaps it is you my friend that wears blinkers or perhaps yella & green rose tinted specs!?

I stand by my inital comment Whitbread is far superior to any other centre back presently at the club and am confident that this will be proven next season as per Lambert prob thinks hence him stating he was his no1 target to bring to the club.......

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[quote user="Gazza"][quote user="Legend Iwan"][quote user="Gazza"]

For christs sake get off his back, his first start of the season granted hes made a mistake for their goal but how many has the mighty Doc made over the years? yeah thats right MANY that has seen us relegated this standard of football for the first time in fifty years and made one at Tranmere on Good Friday!

Zak is far more composed with the ball at his feet, a better passer of the ball, better in the air than Doc or Nelson, expect to see  out of the current personel if still available next season Zak & Askou be the regular starters. Nelson is a Div 1 player at best and will be murdered in the championship and Doc has always struggled at this level for pace, I for one would not be suprised if Doc is here next year anyway as he is surely one of our best paid players at the club and is out of contract in the summer and possibly Lambert is thinking he can get a far better centre back for Docs salary?!?!

[/quote]

What a surprise someone with blinkers on when talking about Doc. It is quite clear since Lambert has come into management here the Doc has been rejuvenated and has shown a lot of confidence. If you actually watch Doc this season his cross field balls from the back have been superb as well as chipping in with 6 goals putting him as the highest scorer after the front 3.

Also concerning Whitbread I hope he does really well for us (who wouldn''t) but he was shocking on saturday and it isn''t like he has been locked up in a dark room away from a football this season. He has been able to practice with the rest of the squad, yet his positional play was atrocious and never looked to pass the ball quickly and get things moving.

I''m sure whitbread will improve with match time, but I don''t understand why we can''t analyse a performance by one of our players just because he hasn''t played much this season?

[/quote]

Blinkers?! Did you watch the game versus Tranmere?. Yeah ok Doc has performed OK this year and is certainly no world beater but lets remember we are in Div 3 and he certainly seems to have found his level!

How many mistakes did he make on a regular basis in the championship? yeah thats right quite a few so perhaps it is you my friend that wears blinkers or perhaps yella & green rose tinted specs!?

I stand by my inital comment Whitbread is far superior to any other centre back presently at the club and am confident that this will be proven next season as per Lambert prob thinks hence him stating he was his no1 target to bring to the club.......

[/quote]

So you think, after playing about 10 years in the top two tiers of English league football that it''s just this season that Doherty has found his level? Seems a bit of a silly thing to say to me.

As for mistakes in the Championship...not a lot really. I mean people like you will put that kind of spin on in it to try and make a case to support your argument but those of us who have been watching Norwich over recent years and know a bit about football will know that Gary Doherty has done a fine job in the Championship for us. Unfortunately for us some of his team mates (and managers) wren''t able to perform to the required standard.

Zak Whitbread probably is going to be a good signing but I think he''s only 3 or 4 years younger than the Doc and has done a fraction of what the Doc has done in the game.

We have some good players in our squad but it''s the Doc who has played the most football at the highest level. That should tell you a little something (although it probably won''t).

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Looks like this has started a bit of a debate...funny how so many people who have all watched the same game can have such different opinions!  I''d have been very surprised, given his lack of playing time, if Whitbread hadn''t have been rusty on Monday - just wondered if the mistakes shown on the highlights were typical of his whole 90 mins.  For what its worth, if Lambo decides he''s good enough for City, and Crook obviously does, than thats all that matters to me.  IMO, I would love to see him lining up alongside Askou as first choice centre backs next season.

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