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Smudger

Anthony McNamee can't defend...

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...and we are losing out so much as a team defensively by playing such a lazy individual on the wing... [:$]Is it not about time that this myth was buried once and for all?We have only conceded one goal so far (at home to Southend) with McNamee on the pitch!

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Who did we play with McNamee in the side? Southend, Oldham & Yeovil

It''s not just the lack of protection he offers Rose/Martin but we''re a better unit with the ball with the 3 in the middle, it allows us to win the ball back quickly, we would just allow the opposition so much time on the ball with McNamee & Hoolahan, we got away with it against the above mentioned sides but decent sides like Huddersfield & Swindon would have created lots, having 3 in the middle also allows us to keep possession, without the ball we won''t hurt times half as much as we can with the ball.

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Versus Yeovil he tracked back won the ball back (not him who lost it) moved forward with it and setup the second goal from it..I love the guy... he''s great!

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[quote user="Canary_on_the Trent"]

Who did we play with McNamee in the side? Southend, Oldham & Yeovil

It''s not just the lack of protection he offers Rose/Martin but we''re a better unit with the ball with the 3 in the middle, it allows us to win the ball back quickly, we would just allow the opposition so much time on the ball with McNamee & Hoolahan, we got away with it against the above mentioned sides but decent sides like Huddersfield & Swindon would have created lots, having 3 in the middle also allows us to keep possession, without the ball we won''t hurt times half as much as we can with the ball.

[/quote]Do you have any stats to back this up?How many have we conceeded with the diamond in recent matches?PS - we have also won every game that McNamee has started.  He also had a large hand in rescuing all 3 points at Walsall away.

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[quote user="Smudger"]How many have we conceeded with the diamond in recent matches?

PS - we have also won every game that McNamee has started.  He also had a large hand in rescuing all 3 points at Walsall away.
[/quote]Why doesn''t Paul Lambert ever listen to you smudger? LAMBERT OUT! [:@]

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[quote user="Smudger"]...and we are losing out so much as a team defensively by playing such a lazy individual on the wing... [:$]

Is it not about time that this myth was buried once and for all?

We have only conceded one goal so far (at home to Southend) with McNamee on the pitch!

[/quote]

Would McNamee have prevented Swindon''s goal on Saturday? No (the Doc slipped on the wet pitch and lost his player, who nodded it in). Huddersfield''s goal the week before came from another defensive lapse at a corner (Nelson lost his player on that occasion). 

I know you don''t want Lappin in the team, but your argument just doesn''t hold water.   

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[quote user="LinkNR9"]

[quote user="Smudger"]...and we are losing out so much as a team defensively by playing such a lazy individual on the wing... [:$]Is it not about time that this myth was buried once and for all?We have only conceded one goal so far (at home to Southend) with McNamee on the pitch![/quote]

Would McNamee have prevented Swindon''s goal on Saturday? No (the Doc slipped on the wet pitch and lost his player, who nodded it in). Huddersfield''s goal the week before came from another defensive lapse at a corner (Nelson lost his player on that occasion). 

I know you don''t want Lappin in the team, but your argument just doesn''t hold water.   

[/quote]...or the two goals against Southampton at home, or the two conceeded away at Millwall, or the one against Brighton away, or the one against Hartlepool at home?Shall we continue?We sit far too deep as a team without McNamee in the line up for me - Russell plus the back four and a fantastic keeper at this level in Fraser Forster is more than enough to cope with what teams in this division can throw at us in my opinion.Why did Swindon have so much of the play on Saturday, which led to the pressure they built up which finally resulted in their well deserved equaliser?  Because we sat FAR TOO DEEP as a team!

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Smudger, I don''t want to argue with your point but I think it''s unfair to compare us playing the diamond with us as a more traditional 442. We''ve played a lot more games as a diamond so more opportunity to lose or concede. Unless we''d played the same number as a 442 outfit it''s like comparing apples and pears.

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and swindon, southampton,  Millwall are all far far better teams than Oldham, Yeovil and Southend.  so what does the comparison prove?  No team is always going to keep a clean sheet - and if simply selecting McNamee instead of Lappin would ensure that dont you think he would be playing?

Whether McNamee defends, or plays, or not is different from the team defending too deep.   We played 442 for the last 2 seasons, including with Hux in the side and still we sat FAR TOO DEEP as a team and last season got relegated as a consequence.  Likewise during the Yeovil and Southend games we also had periods where the midfield sat far too deep;  its the tactic that the central players fall back on and I suspect the manager choses too.

McNamees best game for us was against Yeovil - where he was less of an attacking threat but added some real energy to his whole game,  showing some willingness to work back and still put in good looking crosses.  He was criticised on this board for not having a good game!    That game showed he can offer defensive protection and as long as that effort continues from him then I am now more confident that he will perform well for us when chosen.   

Its all quite irrelevant however, as it is clear that Lambert continues to feel that 433 is our best formation and Lappin the best left sided option ahead of AM not matter what any of us think. 

 

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[quote user="jammis"]Smudger, I don''t want to argue with your point but I think it''s unfair to compare us playing the diamond with us as a more traditional 442. We''ve played a lot more games as a diamond so more opportunity to lose or concede. Unless we''d played the same number as a 442 outfit it''s like comparing apples and pears.[/quote]I am not trying to compare the two different formations as such mate.Just trying to point out that the major criticism of McNamee''s game by many so far appears to be a myth to me.  I am also pretty sure that McNamee could play in the diamond system at this level, while many seem to think that we would get murdered if Lambert was to try this.

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I would''nt start with McNamee at the moment. However I think Smudge makes a valid point about him possibly pushing us higher up the field. Hughes was totally ineffective when he came on and we seemed to drop even deeper. Felt he could have come on as sub.

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[quote user="Smudger"][quote user="jammis"]Smudger, I don''t want to argue with your point but I think it''s unfair to compare us playing the diamond with us as a more traditional 442. We''ve played a lot more games as a diamond so more opportunity to lose or concede. Unless we''d played the same number as a 442 outfit it''s like comparing apples and pears.[/quote]

I am not trying to compare the two different formations as such mate.

Just trying to point out that the major criticism of McNamee''s game by many so far appears to be a myth to me. 

I am also pretty sure that McNamee could play in the diamond system at this level, while many seem to think that we would get murdered if Lambert was to try this.
[/quote]

I''ll try and get in touch with PL and persuade him to listen to you because you obviously know far more about picking teams that he does.

Did I miss your tenure of ........... ?

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[quote user="Smudger"][quote user="jammis"]Smudger, I don''t want to argue with your point but I think it''s unfair to compare us playing the diamond with us as a more traditional 442. We''ve played a lot more games as a diamond so more opportunity to lose or concede. Unless we''d played the same number as a 442 outfit it''s like comparing apples and pears.[/quote]

I am not trying to compare the two different formations as such mate.

Just trying to point out that the major criticism of McNamee''s game by many so far appears to be a myth to me. 

I am also pretty sure that McNamee could play in the diamond system at this level, while many seem to think that we would get murdered if Lambert was to try this.
[/quote]

I''ll try and get in touch with PL and persuade him to listen to you because you obviously know far more about picking teams that he does.

Did I miss your tenure of ........... ?

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[quote user="Good Touch For A Big Man"]I would''nt start with McNamee at the moment. However I think Smudge makes a valid point about him possibly pushing us higher up the field. Hughes was totally ineffective when he came on and we seemed to drop even deeper. Felt he could have come on as sub.[/quote]

It''s nothing to do with one midfielder. As you probably know, it''s the back four that dictates how deep the team plays. (When a team defends a narrow lead, there''s sometimes a tendancy to drop off so that the ball isn''t played in behind a nervy back four, so that they have to turn to defend; this is especially so if your back four isn''t blessed with pace). You might have seen Lambert doing his nut on a couple of occasions this season when this has happened.

In turn, this pulls the midfield back and then the front players back, so that the opposition doesn''t exploit the spaces.  

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[quote user="Smudger"]...and we are losing out so much as a team defensively by playing such a lazy individual on the wing... [/quote]People also said that about Hucks

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[quote user="dhickl"][quote user="Smudger"]...and we are losing out so much as a team defensively by playing such a lazy individual on the wing... [/quote]People also said that about Hucks[/quote]Yes I know they did... how silly of them!

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[quote user="LinkNR9"]

[quote user="Good Touch For A Big Man"]I would''nt start with McNamee at the moment. However I think Smudge makes a valid point about him possibly pushing us higher up the field. Hughes was totally ineffective when he came on and we seemed to drop even deeper. Felt he could have come on as sub.[/quote]

It''s nothing to do with one midfielder. As you probably know, it''s the back four that dictates how deep the team plays. (When a team defends a narrow lead, there''s sometimes a tendancy to drop off so that the ball isn''t played in behind a nervy back four, so that they have to turn to defend; this is especially so if your back four isn''t blessed with pace). You might have seen Lambert doing his nut on a couple of occasions this season when this has happened.

In turn, this pulls the midfield back and then the front players back, so that the opposition doesn''t exploit the spaces.  

[/quote]I think that you are wrong here.  It is mainly the midfield who dictate how far up the pitch the rest of the team sits.Too deep an you invite pressure on to the midfield and the back four.We were not winning anywhere near enough ball in the centre of the pitch yesterday.  Was this our midfields fault or were the defence to blame?We had Russell, Smith and Lappin rarely going out of their own half before half time - which obviously invites teams to launch attack after attack at you.  We were lucky that it was only Swindon Town and not a team that could of taken advantage of how far back we sat.

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[quote user="Smudger"][quote user="LinkNR9"]

[quote user="Good Touch For A Big Man"]I would''nt start with McNamee at the moment. However I think Smudge makes a valid point about him possibly pushing us higher up the field. Hughes was totally ineffective when he came on and we seemed to drop even deeper. Felt he could have come on as sub.[/quote]

It''s nothing to do with one midfielder. As you probably know, it''s the back four that dictates how deep the team plays. (When a team defends a narrow lead, there''s sometimes a tendancy to drop off so that the ball isn''t played in behind a nervy back four, so that they have to turn to defend; this is especially so if your back four isn''t blessed with pace). You might have seen Lambert doing his nut on a couple of occasions this season when this has happened.

In turn, this pulls the midfield back and then the front players back, so that the opposition doesn''t exploit the spaces.  

[/quote]I think that you are wrong here.  It is mainly the midfield who dictate how far up the pitch the rest of the team sits.Too deep an you invite pressure on to the midfield and the back four.We were not winning anywhere near enough ball in the centre of the pitch yesterday.  Was this our midfields fault or were the defence to blame?We had Russell, Smith and Lappin rarely going out of their own half before half time - which obviously invites teams to launch attack after attack at you.  We were lucky that it was only Swindon Town and not a team that could of taken advantage of how far back we sat.[/quote]Yesterday?I meant to say Saturday... must be living in a time warp today... [:$]

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[quote user="Smudger"][quote user="LinkNR9"]

[quote user="Good Touch For A Big Man"]I would''nt start with McNamee at the moment. However I think Smudge makes a valid point about him possibly pushing us higher up the field. Hughes was totally ineffective when he came on and we seemed to drop even deeper. Felt he could have come on as sub.[/quote]

It''s nothing to do with one midfielder. As you probably know, it''s the back four that dictates how deep the team plays. (When a team defends a narrow lead, there''s sometimes a tendancy to drop off so that the ball isn''t played in behind a nervy back four, so that they have to turn to defend; this is especially so if your back four isn''t blessed with pace). You might have seen Lambert doing his nut on a couple of occasions this season when this has happened.

In turn, this pulls the midfield back and then the front players back, so that the opposition doesn''t exploit the spaces.  

[/quote]

I think that you are wrong here.  It is mainly the midfield who dictate how far up the pitch the rest of the team sits.

Too deep an you invite pressure on to the midfield and the back four.

We were not winning anywhere near enough ball in the centre of the pitch yesterday.  Was this our midfields fault or were the defence to blame?

We had Russell, Smith and Lappin rarely going out of their own half before half time - which obviously invites teams to launch attack after attack at you.  We were lucky that it was only Swindon Town and not a team that could of taken advantage of how far back we sat.
[/quote]

"We were lucky it was only Swindon"......would that be the Swindon who have lost only 2 of their last 15 league games Smudger?

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I don''t agree with that. You are effectively saying the back four sit deep when they feel like it. Smudge is right that a player with pace determines how deep a team sits because they are scared of the threat of a ball played in behind.

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[quote user="Smudger"][quote user="LinkNR9"]

[quote user="Good Touch For A Big Man"]I would''nt start with McNamee at the moment. However I think Smudge makes a valid point about him possibly pushing us higher up the field. Hughes was totally ineffective when he came on and we seemed to drop even deeper. Felt he could have come on as sub.[/quote]

It''s nothing to do with one midfielder. As you probably know, it''s the back four that dictates how deep the team plays. (When a team defends a narrow lead, there''s sometimes a tendancy to drop off so that the ball isn''t played in behind a nervy back four, so that they have to turn to defend; this is especially so if your back four isn''t blessed with pace). You might have seen Lambert doing his nut on a couple of occasions this season when this has happened.

In turn, this pulls the midfield back and then the front players back, so that the opposition doesn''t exploit the spaces.  

[/quote]

I think that you are wrong here.  It is mainly the midfield who dictate how far up the pitch the rest of the team sits.

Too deep an you invite pressure on to the midfield and the back four.

We were not winning anywhere near enough ball in the centre of the pitch yesterday.  Was this our midfields fault or were the defence to blame?

We had Russell, Smith and Lappin rarely going out of their own half before half time - which obviously invites teams to launch attack after attack at you.  We were lucky that it was only Swindon Town and not a team that could of taken advantage of how far back we sat.
[/quote]

We''ll have to agree to disagree here. However, having played semi-pro football, I''m confident with my post. I''m presuming that you''ve played at a higher level, Smudger? 

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I just do not get it regarding the enthusiasm to find a place for McNamee in the team. It seems as if we want to drop somebody from a team who has swept all before them, by a young player who has only had a couple of games. He looks promising but it is early days and for the moment I just see him as a useful sub to bring on if necessary. Reminds me of a lot of these young pacy wingers, looks dangerous but end product lacking. Time will tell but I do not see him as another Ruel Fox.

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[quote user="TIL 1010"][quote user="Smudger"][quote user="LinkNR9"]

[quote user="Good Touch For A Big Man"]I would''nt start with McNamee at the moment. However I think Smudge makes a valid point about him possibly pushing us higher up the field. Hughes was totally ineffective when he came on and we seemed to drop even deeper. Felt he could have come on as sub.[/quote]

It''s nothing to do with one midfielder. As you probably know, it''s the back four that dictates how deep the team plays. (When a team defends a narrow lead, there''s sometimes a tendancy to drop off so that the ball isn''t played in behind a nervy back four, so that they have to turn to defend; this is especially so if your back four isn''t blessed with pace). You might have seen Lambert doing his nut on a couple of occasions this season when this has happened.

In turn, this pulls the midfield back and then the front players back, so that the opposition doesn''t exploit the spaces.  

[/quote]I think that you are wrong here.  It is mainly the midfield who dictate how far up the pitch the rest of the team sits.Too deep an you invite pressure on to the midfield and the back four.We were not winning anywhere near enough ball in the centre of the pitch yesterday.  Was this our midfields fault or were the defence to blame?We had Russell, Smith and Lappin rarely going out of their own half before half time - which obviously invites teams to launch attack after attack at you.  We were lucky that it was only Swindon Town and not a team that could of taken advantage of how far back we sat.[/quote]

"We were lucky it was only Swindon"......would that be the Swindon who have lost only 2 of their last 15 league games Smudger?

[/quote]Yes the same Swindon whose ground is a dump, who have no money, few fans and who are also likely to be playing in this league for more years than they do any other league in the football pyramid.Teams at a higher level ( a level we should be preparing to be competitive at) would put us to the sword if we were to give them so much possession.  I thought we would only get a point at Swindon but am also convinced that we were at least 2 or 3 (maybe 4 players away from our best line-up).  With our best line up I would of expected all 3 points.Maybe you consider all of our starting 11 capable of holding their own at a higher level?  Many other people think that we have at least 2 or 3 individuals who are not good enough for the step up.Of course you were a bit slow to realise that some of these very same individuals would see us relegated in the first place.  So it does not surprise me in the slightest if you are content to bide your time before being critical of the same players if they are turning out for us and not coming up with the goods over the first few months of next season.Are you still slightly worried that we may finish in the play-offs?

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IMO at the moment there is no need to make any games more open until such time as we are mathmatically promoted. Other teams at present seem content in trying to contain us rather than worrying about their own game.

 

After saying this Lambert does suddenly seem to favour of late a much more attacking side against weaker teams when we are at home, presumably because he feels they will not come after us. So there is of course a possibility of an attacking lineup against Stockport and MK, but of course his first aim is to get us promoted so he may decide that if we keep it tight not losing will be more important than a win.

I cannot however beleive we would have more points on the board if we had started with McNamee.   

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[quote user="vos"]I just do not get it regarding the enthusiasm to find a place for McNamee in the team. It seems as if we want to drop somebody from a team who has swept all before them, by a young player who has only had a couple of games. He looks promising but it is early days and for the moment I just see him as a useful sub to bring on if necessary. Reminds me of a lot of these young pacy wingers, looks dangerous but end product lacking. Time will tell but I do not see him as another Ruel Fox.[/quote]Young?  He is 25 (26 in July) and should be approaching the prime of his career surely?We may of swept all before us, but we have all but mathematically gained promotion already and should be looking to find our strongest line-up in preparation for next season in my book.  Many of the players we have in our first team at present are not of good enough quality for the step up that is required.McNamee has no end product?  False - he has about 3 assists to his name in as many starts (far better statistics than Lappin on a per game basis).  He also had a big hand to play in turning the game on it''s head away at Walsall.McNamee also has proven quality in the Chapionship - winning promotion with Watford and playiug a few games for them in the Premiership.So wrong, wrong and wrong yet again Mr Vos... [:$]

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[quote user="LinkNR9"][quote user="Smudger"][quote user="LinkNR9"]

[quote user="Good Touch For A Big Man"]I would''nt start with McNamee at the moment. However I think Smudge makes a valid point about him possibly pushing us higher up the field. Hughes was totally ineffective when he came on and we seemed to drop even deeper. Felt he could have come on as sub.[/quote]

It''s nothing to do with one midfielder. As you probably know, it''s the back four that dictates how deep the team plays. (When a team defends a narrow lead, there''s sometimes a tendancy to drop off so that the ball isn''t played in behind a nervy back four, so that they have to turn to defend; this is especially so if your back four isn''t blessed with pace). You might have seen Lambert doing his nut on a couple of occasions this season when this has happened.

In turn, this pulls the midfield back and then the front players back, so that the opposition doesn''t exploit the spaces.  

[/quote]I think that you are wrong here.  It is mainly the midfield who dictate how far up the pitch the rest of the team sits.Too deep an you invite pressure on to the midfield and the back four.We were not winning anywhere near enough ball in the centre of the pitch yesterday.  Was this our midfields fault or were the defence to blame?We had Russell, Smith and Lappin rarely going out of their own half before half time - which obviously invites teams to launch attack after attack at you.  We were lucky that it was only Swindon Town and not a team that could of taken advantage of how far back we sat.[/quote]

We''ll have to agree to disagree here. However, having played semi-pro football, I''m confident with my post. I''m presuming that you''ve played at a higher level, Smudger? 

[/quote]No only a few games at a similar level and not the most gifted of players either.  Simply a very hard grafter who worked his heart out foir the team, done the simple things well and made those who played alongside him feel confident that I would be grafting and winning the ball and not giving it away cheaply either.

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