Doherty "will struggle against pace"...

[Mook 0]

...can we finally retire this oft-perpetuated statement once and for all? I''m not trying to start yet another fight between the haters and the likers, I''m just trying to dispel one of the many Doherty myths repeated endlessly on here, and in the stands. It was difficult to tell on the horribly jerky live feed, but I had Radio Norfolk on at the same time and it seemed to me that Doherty got in a foot race with Beckford and matched him stride for stride.So can we just agree, once and for all? Doherty. Is. Not. Slow.

[nutty nigel 7,531]

I had this conversation with someone after the game and apparently you and I are wrong Mook. Beckford wasn''t fit! Sometimes you have to accept you can''t win but Carry On Trying my friend, even if they do turn it into a film with Charles Hawtry[;)]

 

[Canary_on_the Trent 0]

Occassionally Doherty is turned by smaller agile players but put him in a foot race over 10-20 yards and i''ve rarely seen Doherty done for pace.

[Romantic 0]

More to the point - he''s thinking ahead of the game more these days. Counter criticism would have it that the game is easier to read at this level, but against Leeds he had "championship" or even "premiership" quality (not sure about that but we all know the hype around Beckford) to compete with and coped admirably. His concentration seems to have improved massively of late. Less post move reactions, more game reading and organisation. I think not being captain helps as does some consistency in central defense. He can concentrate on his role now.Beckford, for one, is a ''ball behind'' type striker, who should have the measure of any ''slow'' CB. But Doc was in position to respond to Beckford every time he was required on Saturday, and not for the first time this season! But I don''t think it''s just about pace - indeed I''m sure Beckford would cane Doc in a flat race. Doc is an experienced campaigner and I''m pleased to say is improving consistantly and constantly.

[Beauseant 0]

Doc''s much quicker than his detractors give him credit for. I remember him outpacing Tyson in the Forest game last year as well as having Beckford in his pocket. The guy was simply magnificent on saturday, as he has been for much of the season.

[First Wizard 0]

[quote user="Mook"]...can we finally retire this oft-perpetuated statement once and for all? I''m not trying to start yet another fight between the haters and the likers, I''m just trying to dispel one of the many Doherty myths repeated endlessly on here, and in the stands.

It was difficult to tell on the horribly jerky live feed, but I had Radio Norfolk on at the same time and it seemed to me that Doherty got in a foot race with Beckford and matched him stride for stride.

So can we just agree, once and for all? Doherty. Is. Not. Slow.
[/quote]

Hmm? maybe, but you will!

[Brendo 0]

[quote user="Canary_on_the Trent"]Occassionally Doherty is turned by smaller agile players but put him in a foot race over 10-20 yards and i''ve rarely seen Doherty done for pace.[/quote]I agree. Only time I can remember off the top of my head is the Col U black guy who did him a treat for their second. Clive Platt I believe.

[Romantic 0]

Is it also that we''re all a bit Gingerist? I''m not being facetious - I genuinely think that if he was a wiry little black dude we''d debate his pace a lot less. But he''s a bit like someone''s RE teacher so we don''t imagine him being as athletic as he is.

[Paul Lamberts Disciple 0]

[quote user="Mook"] Doherty. Is. Not. Slow.[/quote]Not over a straight line, no. Its his turning circle - roughly equivalent to a ULCC supertanker - that''s the issue.

[Lambo 0]

Doc''s not slow IMO, I would rather have seen Whitbred in over Nelson coming into the Leeds game as Whitbred knows what Leeds front two are about having played (and played well) against them previously.

Doc was exceptional Saturday, this season could be just what he needed to build up his confidence again.

[Brendo 0]

[quote user="Lambo"]Doc''s not slow IMO, I would rather have seen Whitbred in over Nelson coming into the Leeds game as Whitbred knows what Leeds front two are about having played (and played well) against them previously.

Doc was exceptional Saturday, this season could be just what he needed to build up his confidence again.[/quote]I''ve always liked Doc. I think him and Nelson work very well together, and if you''ve noticed (I have) that in the warm up Doc won''t go anywhere without him. They are good together in my opinion. Plus I think it''s pretty good how Doherty looks about 50, and he''s only 30. [url]http://img.skysports.com/09/09/218x298/Gary-Doherty-Norwich_2361665.jpg[/url]In this picture genuinly looks like a pensioner. [:)]

[Buncey 1]

Don''t think anybody could reasonably argue that. I remember him out marking, and for a lot of it, out pacing a young Theo Walcott a while back. It''s more that if he''s turn the wrong way then he''s a bit slow to recover.

[singing canary 0]

beckford scored against the premiership champions .

i think the doc proved his worth really...

he should be proud for his recent perfomances,... i rate the player

[Jacko 0]

I am not going lie when one ball was knocked over the top of the defence and Beckford was in I thought there was no way Doc would catch him. Admittedly Beckford had to bring the ball under control but the way Doc got back at him, then got across him and got the ball back to Forster was sensational defending in my opinion. Lambert was going ballistic on the touchline. That was how good it was.

[G 0]

[quote user="Good Touch For A Big Man"]

I am not going lie when one ball was knocked over the top of the defence and Beckford was in I thought there was no way Doc would catch him. Admittedly Beckford had to bring the ball under control but the way Doc got back at him, then got across him and got the ball back to Forster was sensational defending in my opinion. Lambert was going ballistic on the touchline. That was how good it was.

[/quote]

Ye i think that got a bit of a standing ovation from the barclay. It was absolutely outstanding defending but like someone said earlier I don''t think Beckford was fit but when he did burn some pace chasing a ball you saw how quick he really was.

[Mook 0]

[quote user="Paul Lamberts Disciple"][quote user="Mook"] Doherty. Is. Not. Slow.[/quote]Not over a straight line, no. Its his turning circle - roughly equivalent to a ULCC supertanker - that''s the issue.[/quote]No. No it''s not the issue. There are many people that have stated, categorically, that Doherty will struggle against pace (honestly, just search this board). This is why I''m making the point. He didn''t struggle, at all.Let''s leave the turning circle debate for another day, but suffice to say most big guys (which defenders usually are) turn slowly, and when a striker is already facing goal, you''re gonna look sllllllow in comparison. So the issue with that is positioning, either playing on the half turn or getting tight.

[Gingerpele 0]

Doc has the most pace out of anyone in our team :P

[Heresyourfathersgun 0]

Here''s my two penneth. Doc''s too slow. He''s a magnificent trier, but he has to use his hands too much to hang on. Perhaps Lambert has got more out of him this year, but I think there''s a chance he might not get another contract with us.

[Mook 0]

[quote user="Heresyourfathersgun"]Here''s my two penneth. Doc''s too slow. He''s a magnificent trier, but he has to use his hands too much to hang on. Perhaps Lambert has got more out of him this year, but I think there''s a chance he might not get another contract with us.[/quote]*slaps forehead with palm*

[Nik 0]

I remember reading an article in the past, during the pre-season fitness tests, and it said that Doherty was second only to Huckerby over 100 metres, and if you watch the Doc, he is very seldom beaten for pace !

Really has been an awesome season so far for The Doc !!

[Mister Chops 7]

[quote user="Heresyourfathersgun"]Here''s my two penneth. Doc''s too slow. He''s a magnificent trier, but he has to use his hands too much to hang on. Perhaps Lambert has got more out of him this year, but I think there''s a chance he might not get another contract with us.[/quote]Do you use Betfair?  If you want to lay odds on "Doc getting a new contract", I''ll have some of that.

[lobster catcher 0]

I have sung "you will never beat the doc" ever since he got his place back.At first everyone around me laughed but now they all join in.I would be more worried about nelson''s lack of pace to be honest

[Heresyourfathersgun 0]

[quote user="Mook"][quote user="Heresyourfathersgun"]Here''s my two penneth. Doc''s too slow. He''s a magnificent trier, but he has to use his hands too much to hang on. Perhaps Lambert has got more out of him this year, but I think there''s a chance he might not get another contract with us.[/quote]

*slaps forehead with palm*

You started it. Do you want me to agree with you?
[/quote]

[grantroederdisaster 0]

Urban myths -

The Doc c r ap!

The Docs slow!

The truth is the Docs been one of our best players for the best part of 5 years and this season is playing at a level below his and if theres a better CB in this Division I''d like to see him cause I''m not sure there is and I''ve seen nearly every team in this Division!

Last season Stefanovic and Kennedy were brought in casue they were perceived as better than we had but the Doc was better than both of them put together!

The fact that every manager (who are meant to be experts though in the case of Roedernowhere I''d disagree!) from Worthy onwards has picked the Doc which speaks volumes.

Also worth remembering who we signed the Doc from - Spurs. Yes he''d never be classed as one of their greats and indeed was sold because he wasn''t good enough for them but you don''t play for Spurs if your no good!

The Doc rarely gets beaten by pace and firm evidence of this is last Saturday against Beckford and I remember the Doc outpacing Earnshaw in the Forest home game last season!

Trouble is with a lot of Norwich fans is that they need a scapegoat and are way overcriticial (though last season in most cases it was justified though not in the Docs case!) so the Doc who looks 10 years older than he is and isn''t a trendsetter with an atitude is an easy target!

For instance on Saturday, if the Doc had played as poorly as messrs Holt and Hoolahan did then we''d of probably lost the game and he''d of been crucified by the fans!

Over 200 games for us and cost £750,000 so all in all he owes us nothing and has been good value!

[Heresyourfathersgun 0]

Sorry. Can''t resist it. I know it exasperates some

[grantroederdisaster 0]

Like the Docs the only player who shirt pulls!

For the record hes been doing it much less this season!

[GJP 79]

I might have to say this quietly but I would actually say that the Doc is a better defender and player than Malky Mackay.

[Heresyourfathersgun 0]

[quote user="GJP"]I might have to say this quietly but I would actually say that the Doc is a better defender and player than Malky Mackay.[/quote]

Trouble with Malky was he''s slower than Doc

[sven_goran 0]

Doc is man of the week 12/2010

...

[Yellowbeagle 0]

[quote user="Heresyourfathersgun"]

[quote user="GJP"]I might have to say this quietly but I would actually say that the Doc is a better defender and player than Malky Mackay.[/quote]

Trouble with Malky was he''s slower than Doc

[/quote]

Malky did an important job and fitted into perfectly with the other players we had at the time, he was the bruiser out of the centre back pairing while Fleming was a brilliant reader of the game and there was also a younger and fit Adam Drury covering round, not to mention the hardest working player i have ever seen in Gary Holt in front of him charging around winning all the 50-50 balls, together with a future England goalkeeper behind them all. It''s impossible to say who was the better player.

As for Doherty he''s had a great season and is in the side in merit, however i have my doubts if we''ll compete at the top end of the championship with him in the side. I''m sure if he gets a new contract he''ll start in the first 11 next season, but i''m really not sure he''ll stay there. People have their reasons for not rating him and they are not totally wrong and anyone who cant see some striking weaknesses in his game when we played at a higher level are kidding themselves. Maybe he''s just peaking ability wise and next season he will be as dominant in the higher division, i hope so and hope he proves me wrong.