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Puzzy magnet

So, how many tickets could we sell for the league game?

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I know it is only in theory; but I reckon we could shift 35k for this game no problem.

Serious consideration needs to be given to expanding the ground soon. Will need a new owner to be able to afford it though.

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[quote user="Puzzy magnet "]I know it is only in theory; but I reckon we could shift 35k for this game no problem.

Serious consideration needs to be given to expanding the ground soon. Will need a new owner to be able to afford it though.[/quote]

We simply can''t expand the stadium, it''s the Jarrold Stand that has us in the financial difficulty we''re in now, paying the substantial interest on the loan. Although with the old south stand almost condemned that had to be done. Until a very large chunk our current debt is cleared we won''t expand the stadium as any additional ticket revenue will be more than cancelled out by further loan payments.

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[quote user="Canary_on_the Trent"]

[quote user="Puzzy magnet "]I know it is only in theory; but I reckon we could shift 35k for this game no problem.

Serious consideration needs to be given to expanding the ground soon. Will need a new owner to be able to afford it though.[/quote]

We simply can''t expand the stadium, it''s the Jarrold Stand that has us in the financial difficulty we''re in now, paying the substantial interest on the loan. Although with the old south stand almost condemned that had to be done. Until a very large chunk our current debt is cleared we won''t expand the stadium as any additional ticket revenue will be more than cancelled out by further loan payments.

[/quote]

I thought i read somewhere that if we gain promotion this season we will increase the ground by around 3000, and if we get to the PL in a few years, we will increase it again?

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[quote user="Puzzy magnet "]Leeds game...[/quote]35,000Alot of fans without tickets and leeds could easilly bring another 2,000 on top of their 2,000 max allocation already.... which would bump us up to close to 29,000.... I think another 5,000 city fans could be expected... maybe with a mix of ''casual'' fans who would want to be there for the ''big'' match!

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[quote user="BroadstairsR"]We could have filled in a big corner area at least but for that emabarrasing hote.l[/quote]

The problem with that corner is a gap was needed to provide ambulances access to the pitch in case of serious injuries and some seats would be empty to provide segregation from the away fans. The hotel also generates income all year round, something an extra 1000 or so seats wouldn''t do during the off season. Add to this the fact that corner infills are the most expenisve type of extentsion due to a more complicated build then the "embarrasing" hotel starts to look pretty sensible.

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[quote user="BroadstairsR"]We could have filled in a big corner area at least but for that emabarrasing hote.l[/quote]

 

I think you will find that they pay for so many seats as though they were in that corner every game. I also think if we expand the stadium now we will be bankrupt within 2 years, unfortunately there are a lot of games this year that did not sell out, and I assume if we were half way up the championship we wouldnt sell out many games except where there was a large away following

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Extra capacity is not needed. The club will simply increase the ticket price.

I know it appears an excellent idea of having loads of kids in at virtually nothing the club cannot expect to hit casual fans hard to subsidise them.

Go back a couple of decades and the reason taht the gates were lower was that everyone paid full pride - accepting kids oap reductions and main stand season tickets.

Letting the price of tickets drift up a bit will choke off demand. And for those who squaek perhaps they might care to umderstand why a number of players have joined us from lower down in our league.

That''s business I''m afraid

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Correct me if I am wrong, but somebody in the business told me it was actually losing money. Frankly whenever I vist the City I prefer to stay more central. Apart from the soccer ground it is a bit out of the way with no surrounding attractions. However I am now an exile so maybe I am incorrect.

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Think at the agm McNally said or Bowkett that if we got promotion they would add a couple of thousand seats somewhere. I''m guessing temporary stand in front of hotel, but I can''t work out where else.

Might be completely wrong and misunderstood something.

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[quote user="City1st"]Extra capacity is not needed. The club will simply increase the ticket price. I know it appears an excellent idea of having loads of kids in at virtually nothing the club cannot expect to hit casual fans hard to subsidise them. Go back a couple of decades and the reason taht the gates were lower was that everyone paid full pride - accepting kids oap reductions and main stand season tickets. Letting the price of tickets drift up a bit will choke off demand. And for those who squaek perhaps they might care to umderstand why a number of players have joined us from lower down in our league. That''s business I''m afraid[/quote]

 

I genuinly think that if there was more capacity then more would come (as long as we get promotion.) A League 1 side getting 24,000+ every game is virtrually unheard of. Down the road they struggle to get 20, 000 sometimes. Somebody has got something right at our club despite the last few years of nonsense.

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its nothing to do with amount of seats its all about demand,we could sell 30000 seats at full price for the leeds match.But on the other hand would struggle to sell 10000 at full price for hartlepool on a wet tuesday night.kids for a quid makes sense in filling the ground but will never increase revenue short term.Its swings and roundabouts until you hit the premiership i am afraid

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The hotel makes some sense as our share of the take gains more that the extra 1500 or so seats we could fit in there. You have to question how often, even in the Prem, we had or will get 2000+ visiting fans. I reckon a 30000 seater would be big enough, but the club realise we can''t afford it now. It would have to wait until cash is put in or earned to uprate the City stand - i.e. no time soon.

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Averaging 24500 in the 3rd Division regardless of whether we''re top or not and the tickets are cheap is awesome and something that others clubs who many would think of as bigger than Norwich wouldn''t get. I''m sure our average could of been around the 28,000 mark if we had the capacity!

We do need extra capacity but unless we get investment or promotion back into the Premiership then probably it won''t happen until then!

Like Mcnally, I think for Norwich to fulfill their full potential we''d need to get capacity up to as near to 40,000 as possible!

City1sts alternative idea of raising admission prices thus eliminating the need to increase capacity would do more harm than good. Many Youngsters wouldn''t be able to afford to come (cutting of potential future supporters) as well as many adults and the club would distance itself away from the local commmunity. Yes the prices for youngsters are dirt cheap but remember they will buy food, drink and merchandise, bring along adults and maybe will be hooked for life so will pay full prices when they have to.

This has actually happened at Birmingham City who can''t fill their stadium even though they are enjoying a very good season in the top flight this season.

In the late 80''s to mid 90''s the Bluenoses enjoyed similar huge crowds that we enjoy until the owners decided to cash in and raise prices which wiped out much of their regular fanbase.

The S*um are another example of a club whose ridiculously overpriced tickets have knocked their crowd levels by 3-4000!

Yes childrens tickets, U21''s are cheap and as well as senior citizens but casual tickets can be pricey while the corporate areas are expensive. Like who in their right mind unless they''ve got more money than sense would pay £1500 in order to talk to Hucks every game somthing you can do if you stand outside the Jarold stand anyway!

Yes many season ticket holders buy because they are cheap and to ensure they get in but also whats happened in recent times is many casual fans haven''t looked into buying tickets cause they thought their wern''t any so the club have lost support in that way. Quite simply more than 25,550 fans want to watch Norwich regularly!

- Hence the need for extra capacity!

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"City1sts alternative idea of raising admission prices thus eliminating the need to increase capacity would do more harm than good "

These are NOT my ideas. They are a basic tenet of marketing and price structure ie you move prices around to maximise returns. You sell 100 pints at a £1. You sell 10 pints at £10. You get the same money. The price is then varied between those to deal with demand.

it is a flawed argument to say that overcharging casual fans to subsidise kids is a good investment. The drop off rate for those reaching full price is exceedingly high. Consumption of food and drinks is invariably adult based.

"many casual fans haven''t looked into buying tickets cause they thought their wern''t any so the club have lost support in that way"

Which contradicts you points about kids. The logical argument would be that if you remove dirt cheap kids tickets then full priced casual fans would be able to attend and wouldn''t be lost support.

"Quite simply more than 25,550 fans want to watch Norwich regularly!"

That is absolute nonsense as it is based on the current ticket price. Cut the price in half and that figure would rise even higher. Make it admission at £5 per game and it would rise even further than that. Therefore it is natural that the club will up the price to maximise their returns. It happens in every other shere of business. Why should NCFC be different ?

" Like Mcnally, I think for Norwich to fulfill their full potential we''d need to get capacity up to as near to 40,000 as possible! "

eh, where did he say that ?

As to your comments on the binners, might I ask how much you claim is "ridiculously overpriced". 15% -20% ? Because that is how many admissions you claim they have lost. So admission income is the same with loss of food/beverage sales against policing and stewarding costs.

I am not arguing in favour either way but I do suggest you actually look at the reality of such matters before making silly claims.

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How could we fit another 1000/1500 seats infornt of the hotel without blocking the windows?In the long run the city stand needs to be redeveloped. Imo it looks to small in proportion with the rest of the ground and would look much more impressive if it was about the size of the Jarrold and would bring capacity up to about 30,000. All a question of £££ tho i guess

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City 1st again!

So your telling me that we wouldn''t get over 25,550 even if the ground was bigger?

Mcnally said in a recent interview that was published in the EDP that he thinks that Norwich should eventually if they get in the Prmeiersip have a capacity of between 35-40,000, so like I say as near to 40 as possible!

I know a casual adult ticket in the North stand (Bobby Robson stand now!) costs £34! - yes very overpriced!

I know people who don''t bother trying to get tickets cause they don''t think they will get one and the ticket office knows this goes as well!

Likewise most of us would still go even if tickets pricesare raised which they have been for next season!

I''m all for increasing prices at a sensible rate but not so they are excessively overpriced like those down the A140!

And yes I still maintain we need a bigger gorund!

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[quote user="Bethnal Yellow and Green"]

[quote user="BroadstairsR"]We could have filled in a big corner area at least but for that emabarrasing hote.l[/quote]

The problem with that corner is a gap was needed to provide ambulances access to the pitch in case of serious injuries and some seats would be empty to provide segregation from the away fans. The hotel also generates income all year round, something an extra 1000 or so seats wouldn''t do during the off season. Add to this the fact that corner infills are the most expenisve type of extentsion due to a more complicated build then the "embarrasing" hotel starts to look pretty sensible.

[/quote]

Would like to see the numbers on whether that hotel does bring in more money to the club than seats would in a year, regardless of the "off-season". I doubt it. Of course building the new infill would have cost - but I still think the hotel was a very short-sighted idea that will blight the stadium in future years. Building it at a time when the stadium had reached its cap of 20,000 season tickets was something of a tragedy I''m afraid.

How many other clubs have a hotel at the ground rather than seats? Zero?

I spoke to McNally at a fans event and he suggested that access was not an issue for that corner either...

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with the dross we have suffered in the last 4/5 seasons  getting 25,000 fans to commit to turning up for nothing would be an acheivement let alone charging them  money  [:D]

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Andrew Cullen was a pretty good ticket salesman.

Before he left for MK, he said that if we were ever to become an established prem league side, that we could easily sell 35000 tickets.

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Yes Andrew Cullum said that we could sell 35,000 tickets when we were in the Premiership and we''d of probably had 2-3, 30,000+ crowds this season if the capacity would of allowed!

And yes even though some (not all) tickets are cheap to still get 24-25,000 crowds in the 3rd Division and when we were on the downward spiral after relegation from the Premiership was amazing and proves we need to raise the capacity!

Anyway in order to give us a better chance of competing at the top level (if we get there again!) and fulling maximising our potential, a ground capacity of 35,000+ would eventually, when we can afford it be a must for Norwich City FC. Anyone that says otherwisesuch as Mr Anti, pessimistic City1st are not correct!

At the recent AGM Bowkett the chairman said that in the current stadium footprint another 2-3000 extra seats could be added. Well in the current stadium footprint which wouldn''t include potential upper tiers, the only area left is the area in front of the hotel. Yes access wouldn''t be a problem because if the stadium was increased in this area then the curent emergency exit inbetween the Barclay and the Hotel would be incorporated into the design of a new infill much the same as the emergency exit in the corner the other end!

Also City1sts theory that we don''t need to increase capacity cause if ticket prices were increased is correct cause that would happen the same as it has done at Birmingham and Ipswich who have priced many of their fans out, but that would be against all the ethics of the club and would in the long term be a negative move!

But ethically it would be wrong to choose hiking up ticket prices instead of increasing capacity cause the club would be preventing many fans from getting into see games, would also alienate current fans who can''t go and alienate the club from the community which is a big reason why crowds are so large. Lets face it we haven''t been getting massive crowds previous to this season because we were so god at football!

I''d rather have 24-25,000 fans filling the ground at reasonable prices rather than 17,000 fans not filling the ground at extortionate prices!

The only people who say we don''t need to increase the capacity are those who have been sucked into all the "Little Norwich" stereotype nonsense our club has always been labelled with by people who don''t realise what potential the club has!

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