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silver fox

The youngsters are our future

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I do believe that the youngsters are our future, so is there any chance of seeing some of them on the pitch before the end of the season?  I genuinely believe that Worthy prefers to play our older experienced players rather that the promising youngsters.  Unfortunately these senior players are not producing the goods, therefore, we have nothing to lose in trying Shackell, Jarvis, Henderson or even young Crow.  Just about every other Premiership side is playing youngsters as regulars, but ours rarely make an appearance on the subs bench.

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Couldnt agree more. Jarvis, Shackell and co wont keep us up, and you cant play too many youngsters together, especially in a struggling side but its very odd that we dont even try them when its very obvious that Sven, Leon, Jonson, Flem and Drury to name just a few are out of their depth.

Sadly I cant see it happening, its just not Worthy''s way, and its not just the youngsters is it? Has Brennan ever really been properly tried, and so on and so on.

All managers inevitably have a mix of success and failure in the transfer market but I cant think of any manager who has been so reluctant to play his own signings as NW.

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I fully agree with that. If anything having those 4 in the squad or even starting should say to the older professionals to buck up and play better and that someone a lot younger in there teens who are doing or have done their academy courses are getting into the team. Any squad to be quite good needs a fine blend of raw youth, skill and experience and I feel having either Crow, Henderson, Jarvis or Shackell could be a good blend and add something more sharp and raw to the team.

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I thought garlic bread was the future...

Nevermind,

actually I agree Shacks and Jarvis should be on the bench at least.

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If our experienced pro''s can''t produce the goods at this level, the youngsters won''t be able to either I''m afraid. The whole youngsters arguement is flawed

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its because other teams can risk trying youngest plus when plays hendo alot of people just boo him anyway

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[quote]If our experienced pro''s can''t produce the goods at this level, the youngsters won''t be able to either I''m afraid. The whole youngsters arguement is flawed[/quote]

But is it??

Playing youngsters is always going to produce unpredictable results but it seems to me there are two reasons to try them:

Firstly even though they lack the experience they may be (we hope) more naturally talented than the experienced players and could therefore still do better. Certainly if we take the strikers as an example they couldnt score any fewer than the current pair.

Secondly even if they dont exactly ''produce the goods'' how else can we develop these guys. Surely we have got to bring through some talent of our own, we''re never going to be able to buy all the players we need to survive in the Prem. Yes we can play them in the reserves, send them out on loan etc but ultimately they''ve got to be given a chance in the first team. Even if only one of say Jarvis, Hendo and Shackell esablished themselves in the first team then that would be a result.

Realistically we''ve now got a run of, I think, nine games coming up and we''re probably going to lose them all, whatever team we put out. Now on the one hand that''s quite a difficult situation for youngsters to come into, but on the other hand what have we really got to lose by giving these guys a chance. After all Jarvis and Shackell in particular must be absolutely desperate to show what they can do, and I cant say that about too many of the experienced players on Saturday - which is reason number 3.

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Yeah give them a go. They cant do any worse then the seniors. I posted the exact same remarks the other week but i think it slipt through the net.

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Beds, can''t completely agree with you on this one. What a young player brings to the game over a wise old head is the belief that they can beat anyone. Not sure whether City''s youngsters are like that, but bringing one or two in and giving them a try is no worse than fielding seasoned pros who are seemingly intimidated by the opposition. Give Crow or Jarvis a half and tell them to just go out there and play. Chances are they''ll give their all because they know no other way to play.

BTW, don''t forget Shacks played in the cup game against Newcastle and from the little commentary I heard it appeared he had a bloody good game. He''s not been in the team since.

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I took in the reserves match V. Leicester last night as usual. 1-0 defeat, last minute goal. Doesn''t tell the whole story though, this was quite lively stuff. Gallacher was impressive in goal, made one blinding save at the end... caught corners and crosses for fun all night. Shackell and Gustersson won tonnes of headers against Trevor Benjamin, shackell was excellent in fact. jonson gave a lively 45 minute account at Centre forward, and set up Jarvis nnicely for a one on one with the leicester keeper... which he squandered. Cave Brown was excellent at right back, and one first half exchange of passes and back heels ended in a nutmeg to Blackburn and a vicious cross after the latter skipped round the last defender. Crow started on the left wing, but looked more at home as a striker in half 2. Brennan was subdued though. Mcveigh really should have scored when clean through, shackell had a header turned off the line, Blackburn saw a super little header finger tipped away by the keeper, and as the chances and the forward surges came and went, you began to sense the inevitable. 89th minute, it happened. close range finish from nasty number 9 gave Gallacher no chance and that was 2 1-0 defeats in 3 days.  

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I''m a great believer in developing home produced talent but I honestly feel that Worthy is NOT truly committed to young players. He has been manager for 4 years now and in that time not a single player has come through the ranks to become an established first teamer. You could make a case for Green but his progression to the first team was scheduled long before Worthy took over.

In the summer of 2003 the Daily Mail was the only national paper to predict even a top 6 finish for us and that was based on ....''an outstanding crop of young players''. What has happened to them? Now the progress of Shackell and Jarvis last season (or lack of progress) was largely down to circumstances - to be fair to Worthy. Flem and Malky were outstanding and never injured so it was right to keep that pairing together. However, with the signing of Doherty and Charlton, Shackell has moved DOWN the pecking order. This season he has only played once. Why is he never on the bench (apart from last week). Worthy clearly has every intention of keeping our ''grandad'' centre backs together for at least one more season as they are contracted for at least that period. You could stretch a point and say that we needed to go for experience to try and stay up first season but you MUST still develop the most promising youngsters. In any event, where have these ''experienced'' players got us?

This is where Ipswich nearly always do better than us. Look at Bent and now Bowditch. You can go right back to 1975 when they first blooded John Wark as a 17 year old.   

Will Shackell honestly stay around for ANOTHER season next year if he does not get some first team action this season. Of course not. One of our most promising ever young  players will be allowed to just leave with the usual.....''he was getting frustrated, he wanted first team football, coudn''t stand in his way'' etc. etc.

Now Jarvis. Remember all the hype? Simple fact is he has NOT started a single league game in the last season and a half. He is never on the bench so could Worthy please explain how the club are ''developing his career''?

Hendo has (to be fair) been given several chances but has been played OUT OF POSITION! 

I have seen Danny Crowe a few times and why not give him a couple of games. THERE IS NOTHING TO LOSE. As far as ball control, pace and shooting are concerned, he''s miles ahead of Svennson.  

   

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Shackell warmed up a couple of times Saturday but that was it!

Yes I would like to see youngster being given a chance like Shackell and Jarvis.

Might as well, nothing else has worked this season. Who knows it could be just what is needed.


Come on you Yellows!

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I really hate this. As soon as results aren''t exactly great, people call for "promising" youngsters to be given a chance and Worthy must be an idiot for not playing them.

There is a reason they haven''t been given a chance and that is because the coaching staff believe they are not ready. People on this board are working on the assumption that these youngsters have been granted a pro-contract, therefore they must become good players... not true.

Youth does not necessarily spell potential.

Going through our youngsters I would say this:

Henderson – one of the worst “talents” Colney has ever produced, stop going on about him he’s abysmal, nearly as bad as Shaun Carey.

Shackell''s – in his case its difficult to blood a centre back in unless he is exceptional, because its a position where experience counts for a lot, so short term he isn''t the answer.

Jarvis – he is only 18 and at that young age, (unless, again, they are exceptional ie Rooney, Owen, Ronaldo) they are not going to be as good as seasoned pro''s.

Crow – See Jarvis

I agree that long-term putting the youngsters in maybe a good idea, but this is a terrible idea if we want to stay in the Premiership. Its just a knee-jerk, panic decision.

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Is Danny Crow ruthless in front of goal? I have never seen him play so can''t comment but if he is then stick him in.  Why not? A natural goalscorer will get goals however old he is.  

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Dear Worthy Nigelton, is your idea to bring in the youngsters once we look as though we are probably going down? 

I would like to think the reason we give youngsters pro contracts is because we do believe they will make it. 

Do you also think it a little strange that the coaching staff connected with Englands under 18''s and under 19''s seem to think Jarvis and Henderson are good enough to be regulars at that level, but our coaching staff don''t think they are ready for the Premiership yet.  There are numerous 18 and 19 yr olds playing in the Premiership, who are probably not better than our youngsters; the difference is their managers are prepared to give them a chance.

As far as I am concerned several of our so called experienced players have been given numerous chances to prove they are good enough, but to date some have under performed.  What I am saying is that we should at least give the youngsters a chance sooner rather than later.  If they don''t produce the goods, then I will be the first to say I was wrong. 

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If the youngsters are good enough they are old enough - worthy clearly feels that shackell is OK for cover at the moment but doesn''t appear on the bench as he is too defensive an option. Jarvis must be way off pace to not even appear on the bench given the goalscoring problems. 

If that is Worthys view then they would be best developed by letting them go on loan toget some first team practice.  I suspect that they dont work hard enough on the training pitch and have too much ability to get in the first team squad

My view is that both have the potential to perform at prem level (I suggested Jarvis should be used ahead of Bentley when the rumours of him joining were first muted) with Shackell probably more ready than Ryan.

OTBC   

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i think if they play well for the reserves and the england under whatevers then they will have a run out. I would like too see shacks but the other too are yet to impress me

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[quote]Dear Worthy Nigelton, is your idea to bring in the youngsters once we look as though we are probably going down? I would like to think the reason we give youngsters pro contracts is because we do...[/quote]

Silver Fox:

This is my idea, bring the youngsters through at the right time for them and the right time for the club. Its not fair to throw them in to a struggling side and expect miracles. Its a kneejerk reaction.

Don''t compare England youth teams with the Premiership please - the gulf is so extreme that its pathetic to even argue this point. England youth internationals do not always go on to play at the highest level, in fact a great number still go on to play in low leagues or semi-pro football.

Zippers has it right, if they are good enough they are old enough - ours at the moment, probably aren''t good enough, thats not to say they never will be but it would be silly to throw them in now.

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Dear Worthy Nigelton,

I still don''t think it has anything to do with whether the youngsters are ready, but more that Worthy is not prepared to give them a chance.  Some of our more experienced players have not got what it takes to compete at this level, and they show it week in and week out.  They clearly impress the manager and coaching staff on the training ground, but turn up on Saturday and under perform.

You say it is silly to throw these youngsters in now, but surely it is even sillier to keep playing the under performers every week.  It is silly to keep defending so deep, but we do it every game, it is silly to hoof the ball to a centre forward who cannot win a header, but we do it every week.  You, our manager, and the coaching staff may be happy to watch that every week, but I would like to see the youngsters given a chance now.

You need to change things if they are not working and that also includes bringing in some fresh faces.  I am confident that our youngsters would relish the chance to play for the first team. They do believe in their own ability, especially if you play them in their favoured positions.

I would like to see Shackell at centre back and Jarvis/Henderson at centre forward and let us see what they add to the team.

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