When will the Doc get full respect?

[Smudger 0]

[quote user="thefutureisyellow"][quote user="GJP"][quote user="Smudger"]

[quote user="RUDOLPH HUCKER"]Why not judge Doc on the here and now as we do with everyone else.[/quote]

Because improvements will need to be made when/if we are promoted Sad Old.

I am always looking at our team and others teams to see where they could improve... that is the only way of continual progression instead of standing still and hoping that you have enough. 

We have a long way to go before the club can take the plaudits it deserves.  Let''s not forget that we should be top half of the Championship at the very least and that we will need to make changes on the pitch in order to achieve this.  Many fans believe that we are head and shoulders above the rest in this division where as I do not think the gap is as wide as many woulod have you believe.  We have done extremely well to put ourselves in the position that we are in, but have looked like letting that slip many times over the last month or so.

It will be another difficult match next weekend so let''s not try and get too carried away just yet!

[/quote]

I actually agree that you do always have to keep looking to improve. Whether that''s by bringing in new players or getting better out of what you''ve got.

But, at the same time, you clearly need consistency. Players like to know where they stand and they need the same group to play together regularly so that they form an understanding. Which is what we''ve got under Paul Lambert.

 

[/quote]

 

I agree with this, it is too easy to have a "stick with what we`ve got" attitude because we are doing very well in this League. Our aim should not just be to get promted, but to go into the Championship with a quality side who are playing well together and winning, and continue that form into next season, going into the Championship with momentum would be such a great adsvantage at the start of next season. We will need to  considerably improve our squad for next year and that process should be  underway by bringing in quality players and spending some money, investing in the future.We are in a League where there are probably half a  dozen decent teams  and the rest are dross, to  be frank beating most of them is no great shakes, players that couldnt do it in the Championship but now all of a sudden are hero`s in my opinion will be exposed again next seaon. Lambert is a  great manager but he cant turn water into wine. I am delighted with this seaon and enjoying it as much as any of  you, but we should be using our success  to  develop a stronger squad  and  taking a bit of a risk that should hopefully pay off next season.

[/quote]

Spot on TFIY... [Y] [;)]

[ricardo 7,341]

[quote user="Tony Moore"]I never fail to be amazed by some of the comments on here re Doc. I suppose when all else fails we should blame him for not being any good in the Premier/Championship. It would be useful to remember one or two relevant points. Firstly we are in the third division; surely we should judge our players on that basis? Secondly, in the past we''ve had a dodgy keeper and a midfield that doesn''t help the back row. Now we''ve got a decent keeper and a holding midfielder in Russell who gives the back row the support they need. All this gives the whole of the back row confidence in themselves and each other. The sad part about all this is that some "supporters" cannot/will not recognise this; they would prefer to castigate Doc at every opportunity for what he does/doesn''t do/could do/should do. It really does seem that the Doc is only one poor game away from a mauling from these supporters. Very sad.

Tony.[/quote]Well said, Tony. You are not alone in those thoughts. I agree with Smudger on many things but not that Nelson is a better centre half than the Doc. It beats me how anyone can come to that conclusion. Nelson is a full hearted stopper type centre half but his skills border on the agricultural. Its hard to think of any center halves in recent years who were similarly gifted. I would have to go back to the likes of Colin Prophett or even further back to Matt McNeill. Probably too far back for most on here to remember.

[Smudger 0]

[quote user="Tony Moore"]I never fail to be amazed by some of the comments on here re Doc. I suppose when all else fails we should blame him for not being any good in the Premier/Championship. It would be useful to remember one or two relevant points. Firstly we are in the third division; surely we should judge our players on that basis? Secondly, in the past we''ve had a dodgy keeper and a midfield that doesn''t help the back row. Now we''ve got a decent keeper and a holding midfielder in Russell who gives the back row the support they need. All this gives the whole of the back row confidence in themselves and each other. The sad part about all this is that some "supporters" cannot/will not recognise this; they would prefer to castigate Doc at every opportunity for what he does/doesn''t do/could do/should do. It really does seem that the Doc is only one poor game away from a mauling from these supporters. Very sad. Tony.[/quote]

No one is saying that the Doc has not played well in the majority of matches he has played in the 3rd tier.

But there you have it, there is a massive difference between the 3rd tier and the Championship.  A team that is hoping to be promoted and be successful in the Championship would ideally be trying to bed down a strong defence for next season pretty much now.

What makes you say that our goalkeepers and midfielders in the past were any worse than what we currently have here considering that they too were playing at a higher level?  I am damn sure that both David Marshall (although I was not a big fan of his) and Greeno would claim that they have done far more in the game than Fraser Forster who I have been a fan of and hope that we can cling on to for next season.

Let us not forget that we had all of our first choice midfielders here in our relegation season.  Yes Korey Smith is now a year older and more experienced and we now have Hoolahan playing in his favoured position, but it remains to be seen whether this diamond system (certainly with no new personnel) could compete at the much improved Championship level.  Yet we still do not have the players in the squad to offer us many other realisitic alternatives such as reverting to 4-4-2.  Yes we have seen us go 3 at the back and throw players forwards and it has worked at this level.  If you are silly enough to think that such tactics will work out so often in the Championship then I think that you are being very naive.

There is going to be much work to be done during the summer that is for sure!

[Smudger 0]

[quote user="ricardo"][quote user="Tony Moore"]I never fail to be amazed by some of the comments on here re Doc. I suppose when all else fails we should blame him for not being any good in the Premier/Championship. It would be useful to remember one or two relevant points. Firstly we are in the third division; surely we should judge our players on that basis? Secondly, in the past we''ve had a dodgy keeper and a midfield that doesn''t help the back row. Now we''ve got a decent keeper and a holding midfielder in Russell who gives the back row the support they need. All this gives the whole of the back row confidence in themselves and each other. The sad part about all this is that some "supporters" cannot/will not recognise this; they would prefer to castigate Doc at every opportunity for what he does/doesn''t do/could do/should do. It really does seem that the Doc is only one poor game away from a mauling from these supporters. Very sad. Tony.[/quote]

Well said, Tony. You are not alone in those thoughts. I agree with Smudger on many things but not that Nelson is a better centre half than the Doc. It beats me how anyone can come to that conclusion.

Nelson is a full hearted stopper type centre half but his skills border on the agricultural. Its hard to think of any center halves in recent years who were similarly gifted. I would have to go back to the likes of Colin Prophett or even further back to Matt McNeill. Probably too far back for most on here to remember.
[/quote]

Please point me to where I have ever said such a thing (other than when we may of first signed Nelson and I said that I thought he could be better) Ricardo.

I like your agricultural description of him!  lol [Y]

I have said for ages that it would be Whitbread and Askou if fit for me, with Spillane also above Nelson and the Doc in the pecking order although I think that his best position is at Right Back at the moment.

I would keep the Doc but only on a drastically reduced deal and think that we need at least one if not two centre halves upon promotion.  I think that it would of been nice to of had one of them here for the run in to this season.

[O.T.B.C 0]

I would get this season over with first. If we do go up, I actually doubt that Askou would cut it. Nelson will have to go and Doc would be good to have as a back up.

[ricardo 7,341]

[quote user="Smudger"]

[quote user="ricardo"][quote user="Tony Moore"]I never fail to be amazed by some of the comments on here re Doc. I suppose when all else fails we should blame him for not being any good in the Premier/Championship. It would be useful to remember one or two relevant points. Firstly we are in the third division; surely we should judge our players on that basis? Secondly, in the past we''ve had a dodgy keeper and a midfield that doesn''t help the back row. Now we''ve got a decent keeper and a holding midfielder in Russell who gives the back row the support they need. All this gives the whole of the back row confidence in themselves and each other. The sad part about all this is that some "supporters" cannot/will not recognise this; they would prefer to castigate Doc at every opportunity for what he does/doesn''t do/could do/should do. It really does seem that the Doc is only one poor game away from a mauling from these supporters. Very sad. Tony.[/quote]Well said, Tony. You are not alone in those thoughts. I agree with Smudger on many things but not that Nelson is a better centre half than the Doc. It beats me how anyone can come to that conclusion. Nelson is a full hearted stopper type centre half but his skills border on the agricultural. Its hard to think of any center halves in recent years who were similarly gifted. I would have to go back to the likes of Colin Prophett or even further back to Matt McNeill. Probably too far back for most on here to remember.[/quote]

Please point me to where I have ever said such a thing (other than when we may of first signed Nelson and I said that I thought he could be better) Ricardo.

I like your agricultural description of him!  lol [Y]

I have said for ages that it would be Whitbread and Askou if fit for me, with Spillane also above Nelson and the Doc in the pecking order although I think that his best position is at Right Back at the moment.

I would keep the Doc but only on a drastically reduced deal and think that we need at least one if not two centre halves upon promotion.  I think that it would of been nice to of had one of them here for the run in to this season.

[/quote]I din''t think you''ll find anyone who will get an improved deal when the time comes around, Smudge. The Doc may well have to accept less if he wants another year because there are just too many clubs in financial trouble.On his reputation, Whitbread should be good enough for the Championship and also maybe Askou but I think its a step to far for Nelson. I''m glad we are now in agreement on that point. I don''t mean to denigrate Nelson, he is fairly decent in this league but has no long term future at a higher level.Spillane is still a bit of an enigma as far as I am concerned. Hopefully his consistency will improve with experience. Mc Nally said money would be made available for players next season so I guess we''ll have to wait and see what magic Lambert can work in the market.By the by, I''m pleased to see that you are back supporting the team again. I agreed with you on the whole Delia thing but sometimes you only cut off your nose to spite your face when you have no power to change things. Owners, directors, managers and players come and go but I shall always be there while I live and breathe.

[Norwich or die tryin! 0]

Why do we seem to have a thread about Doc after every match when he has scored or made a mistake? To me he is doing well at this level because of his experience playing reguly at a higher level and also benefitting from having a decent manager. He is a solid player but he has allready proven that he struggles at Championship level and his lack of pace and mobility is highlighted more often. He has been excellent this season dont get me wrong but he is simply not good enough for a team chasing the play-offs in the Championship. League 1 promotion contenders and Championship relegation fighters is his level

[barclay46 0]

Is this the latest photo of "the rodent"?

[O.T.B.C 0]

I''ll tell you what, watched the header again and watch the determination and desire to get there was brilliant, he bullied the defenders. Well don Doc.

[CambridgeCanary 0]

[quote user="Smudger"][quote user="thefutureisyellow"][quote user="GJP"][quote user="Smudger"]

[quote user="RUDOLPH HUCKER"]Why not judge Doc on the here and now as we do with everyone else.[/quote]

Because improvements will need to be made when/if we are promoted Sad Old.

I am always looking at our team and others teams to see where they could improve... that is the only way of continual progression instead of standing still and hoping that you have enough. 

We have a long way to go before the club can take the plaudits it deserves.  Let''s not forget that we should be top half of the Championship at the very least and that we will need to make changes on the pitch in order to achieve this.  Many fans believe that we are head and shoulders above the rest in this division where as I do not think the gap is as wide as many woulod have you believe.  We have done extremely well to put ourselves in the position that we are in, but have looked like letting that slip many times over the last month or so.

It will be another difficult match next weekend so let''s not try and get too carried away just yet!

[/quote]

I actually agree that you do always have to keep looking to improve. Whether that''s by bringing in new players or getting better out of what you''ve got.

But, at the same time, you clearly need consistency. Players like to know where they stand and they need the same group to play together regularly so that they form an understanding. Which is what we''ve got under Paul Lambert.

 

[/quote]

 

I agree with this, it is too easy to have a "stick with what we`ve got" attitude because we are doing very well in this League. Our aim should not just be to get promted, but to go into the Championship with a quality side who are playing well together and winning, and continue that form into next season, going into the Championship with momentum would be such a great adsvantage at the start of next season. We will need to  considerably improve our squad for next year and that process should be  underway by bringing in quality players and spending some money, investing in the future.We are in a League where there are probably half a  dozen decent teams  and the rest are dross, to  be frank beating most of them is no great shakes, players that couldnt do it in the Championship but now all of a sudden are hero`s in my opinion will be exposed again next seaon. Lambert is a  great manager but he cant turn water into wine. I am delighted with this seaon and enjoying it as much as any of  you, but we should be using our success  to  develop a stronger squad  and  taking a bit of a risk that should hopefully pay off next season.

[/quote]

Spot on TFIY... [Y] [;)]

[/quote]

If you have ever taken the trouble to follow what David McNally has said - which you obviously haven''t since who really wants to be positive around here- you would know that he has explained that it is his plan is to consolidate and improve the team at each level.

If we get promoted then he knows that to compete the squad must be improved and he has said that a period of consolidation for that happen is part of his 7 year plan to get City to a place as a competitive Premiership club

But much easier to criticise and assume isn''t it?

It will come as a surprise to you both and to some others on here but McNally does have a clue what he is doing and he has thought of some of the bleeding obvious revelations that seem to strike you as uniquely original. 

But perhaps accepting that someone else knows something is a step too far at this stage????

[Yellowfuture 71]

I`m impressed with McNally but cant really get too excited about a Seven Year plan!

[Smudger 0]

[quote user="thefutureisyellow"]

I`m impressed with McNally but cant really get too excited about a Seven Year plan!

[/quote]

Same here... sorry but if takes 7 years for McNally to establish us in the Premiership then that does nothing to excite me about his credentials to lead us there!

I expect a club of our size to be challenging for a play-off spot next season in the Championship if promoted.  A top half finish with a serious promotion push the following year at the very least.

[GJP 79]

If someone was to travel into the future and come back to tell me that in 7 years time we''re an established Premier League side I would be absolutely delighted.

[Yellowfuture 71]

Wouldnt we all, just I would like to be there before 2017.

[Stevie Wonder 0]

[quote user="Mello Yello"]

When will Nelson get full respect?.....He cleared off the line, what was a certain Seagulls goal, and has put in another solid performance.

He''s no Alan Hansen, but he''s doing well for us.

Nelson''s come on leaps and bounds.....I think he''s as much an integral part of our positive performances as any other member of the squad.

 

[/quote]

Nelson is much improved from his early appearances but he is at best a League 1 player. He can trap a ball further than I can kick it! To give him his dues he is very good at defending the penalty box which is amongst his primary tasks but he is a hoofer and would be out of his depth in Champs. If we are promoted, I would imagine he will be moved on - Doc, Whitbread & Askou plus one other with Spillane as additional back up.

[Graham Humphrey 13]

[quote user="Mello Yello"]

When will Nelson get full respect?.....He cleared off the line, what was a certain Seagulls goal, and has put in another solid performance.

He''s no Alan Hansen, but he''s doing well for us.

Nelson''s come on leaps and bounds.....I think he''s as much an integral part of our positive performances as any other member of the squad.[/quote]

I agree with this.

Nelson, along with Doc, was great today, and the fact he was taken off was obviously due to the circumstances rather than a reflection on his performance.

I think he deserves enormous credit for the way he bounced back after a nightmare debut and although he''s quite a, erm, basic defender who''s not that quick you get the feeling he''s one of those who would die for the cause, and will put himself in front of absolutely everything.

[CambridgeCanary 0]

[quote user="Smudger"][quote user="thefutureisyellow"]

I`m impressed with McNally but cant really get too excited about a Seven Year plan!

[/quote]

Same here... sorry but if takes 7 years for McNally to establish us in the Premiership then that does nothing to excite me about his credentials to lead us there!

I expect a club of our size to be challenging for a play-off spot next season in the Championship if promoted.  A top half finish with a serious promotion push the following year at the very least.

[/quote]

Two years to get out of this league.  Two years to get out of the Championship

Two years to consolidate in the Premiership

And in year 7 we are serious competitors at the top level.

If you are not excited by that then you really are even less aware of the realities of this club and football.

It will take time to build a sustainable Prem team.  Any body with a passing acquaintance with the real world knows that.  There is no point getting promoted to come down again.  We did that and it stinks. 

The only way for this club to progress is securely and with consolidation.

Get real for God''s sake

[hugoagogo 0]

[quote user="Askounin"]Why do we seem to have a thread about Doc after every match when he has scored or made a mistake? To me he is doing well at this level because of his experience playing reguly at a higher level and also benefitting from having a decent manager. He is a solid player but he has allready proven that he struggles at Championship level and his lack of pace and mobility is highlighted more often. He has been excellent this season dont get me wrong but he is simply not good enough for a team chasing the play-offs in the Championship. League 1 promotion contenders and Championship relegation fighters is his level[/quote]

what a total pile of claptrap,is it a joke post?

[norfolkbroadslim 223]

[quote user="Smudger"]

When he does it at the level he was signed to do it at?

Still not first choice from what we have for me if all players are fully fit.

The game could of been lost by then if Lappin and Nelson never cleared off the line.  I suppose that means that those two are good enough to stay in the managers long term plans also?

A better team would of crucified us on the break when we went to 3 at the back and it is only the poor quality of the opposition in this league that allows us to get away with doing such things so often without being caught out.

[/quote]

[:^)]

We are not in The Premier League or the Championship and you can only play what is in front of you

[Smudger 0]

[quote user="CambridgeCanary"][quote user="Smudger"][quote user="thefutureisyellow"]

I`m impressed with McNally but cant really get too excited about a Seven Year plan!

[/quote]

Same here... sorry but if takes 7 years for McNally to establish us in the Premiership then that does nothing to excite me about his credentials to lead us there!

I expect a club of our size to be challenging for a play-off spot next season in the Championship if promoted.  A top half finish with a serious promotion push the following year at the very least.

[/quote]

Two years to get out of this league.  Two years to get out of the Championship

Two years to consolidate in the Premiership

And in year 7 we are serious competitors at the top level.

If you are not excited by that then you really are even less aware of the realities of this club and football.

It will take time to build a sustainable Prem team.  Any body with a passing acquaintance with the real world knows that.  There is no point getting promoted to come down again.  We did that and it stinks. 

The only way for this club to progress is securely and with consolidation.

Get real for God''s sake

[/quote]

Well if they can''t get us out of this Mickey Mouse League at the first attempt how long do you think they will get next season considering that most of our best players will be off during the summer?

It''s you who needs a reality check... we have something good going for us as a club at the moment... in football and life you need to grab such chances with both hands, unless of course you are one of the lucky few who are spoilt with untold riches and get pretty much everything their own way.

The moment this club tsarts moving in the worng direction again Lambert will proabably get a better offer and we will be scratching around for a few years trying to find somebody to fill his boots.  I wonder if McNally has facillitated this in to his 7 year plan already or if he feels that the club will keep to it''s current rate of progress so far and keep all onboard happy?

[Houston Canary 0]

There must be 5 or more commenters on here crying about Doherty not getting his props and why is this thread even here.

You IDIOTS! Read the title of the thread!!! It is PRO Doherty. There has not been an anti-Doherty thread in ages, just ones like this in which his fan club show up to exaggerate how great he was the last 4 years, and how he''s putting all the doubters straight with his good play this season, albeit in Div. 3.

It is those blinded by the sheen off his head that really generate the negative comments that do appear on these pro-Doherty threads. You are so blinded by fantasy that you overstate his qualities, imagining him covering for the other 10 playerrs while still holding his own at CB. If he was that good, he''d have been swept up each of the times he held out for contract or when Lambert told him he was free to go. But he wasn''t.

He''s having a good year.

[Rudolph Hucker 0]

It''s nice to see you are gradually coming around to getting behind Doc too, Houston.

[Canary_on_the Trent 0]

[quote user="Smudger"][quote user="thefutureisyellow"]

I`m impressed with McNally but cant really get too excited about a Seven Year plan!

[/quote]

Same here... sorry but if takes 7 years for McNally to establish us in the Premiership then that does nothing to excite me about his credentials to lead us there!

I expect a club of our size to be challenging for a play-off spot next season in the Championship if promoted.  A top half finish with a serious promotion push the following year at the very least.

[/quote]It shows how out of touch with reality you are and the situation we find ourselves in. We''re in the 3rd tier, £23m in debt and still making heavy losses because of our debt repayments & previous decisions by board members and managers. It''s going to take time for us to rise back to where we want to be and without major investment it is nigh on impossible.

[dylanisabaddog 4,866]

He wouldn''t be in the team if others were fit, but has played reasonably well. Perhaps he has found his level in League 1?

[Canary_on_the Trent 0]

[quote user="dylanisabaddog"]He wouldn''t be in the team if others were fit, but has played reasonably well. Perhaps he has found his level in League 1?[/quote]Why do you say that? Seems pretty clear to me he''s Lambert''s first choice now.

[hogman 0]

if others were fit he would still be in he is playing supurb he looks solid at the back and has been handy up top otbc

[jammis 0]

[quote user="Smudger"][quote user="thefutureisyellow"]

I`m impressed with McNally but cant really get too excited about a Seven Year plan!

[/quote]

Same here... sorry but if takes 7 years for McNally to establish us in the Premiership then that does nothing to excite me about his credentials to lead us there!

I expect a club of our size to be challenging for a play-off spot next season in the Championship if promoted.  A top half finish with a serious promotion push the following year at the very least.

[/quote]

I''m surpised it''s only 7 years until he thinks we''ll be an established PL team, given the depths we''ve reached it could quite easily be a lot longer.

[jammis 0]

[quote user="Smudger"][quote user="CambridgeCanary"][quote user="Smudger"][quote user="thefutureisyellow"]

I`m impressed with McNally but cant really get too excited about a Seven Year plan!

[/quote]

Same here... sorry but if takes 7 years for McNally to establish us in the Premiership then that does nothing to excite me about his credentials to lead us there!

I expect a club of our size to be challenging for a play-off spot next season in the Championship if promoted.  A top half finish with a serious promotion push the following year at the very least.

[/quote]

Two years to get out of this league.  Two years to get out of the Championship

Two years to consolidate in the Premiership

And in year 7 we are serious competitors at the top level.

If you are not excited by that then you really are even less aware of the realities of this club and football.

It will take time to build a sustainable Prem team.  Any body with a passing acquaintance with the real world knows that.  There is no point getting promoted to come down again.  We did that and it stinks. 

The only way for this club to progress is securely and with consolidation.

Get real for God''s sake

[/quote]

Well if they can''t get us out of this Mickey Mouse League at the first attempt how long do you think they will get next season considering that most of our best players will be off during the summer?

It''s you who needs a reality check... we have something good going for us as a club at the moment... in football and life you need to grab such chances with both hands, unless of course you are one of the lucky few who are spoilt with untold riches and get pretty much everything their own way.

The moment this club tsarts moving in the worng direction again Lambert will proabably get a better offer and we will be scratching around for a few years trying to find somebody to fill his boots.  I wonder if McNally has facillitated this in to his 7 year plan already or if he feels that the club will keep to it''s current rate of progress so far and keep all onboard happy?

[/quote]

These are maximum time limits Smudger, of course we should be out of this league in less than two years, as McNally and the rest of the board hope. And it is looking likely it''ll happen.
Which would mean two years in the Championship before hopefully making the step up to the PL.

Stop being argumentative for the sake of it, realise where we are and how long it''ll take to get to where we want to be.

Do you honestly think three years to PL football is really that long? It sounds sensible to me.

[The gut 0]

[quote user="Houston Canary"]There must be 5 or more commenters on here crying about Doherty not getting his props and why is this thread even here. You IDIOTS! Read the title of the thread!!! It is PRO Doherty. There has not been an anti-Doherty thread in ages, just ones like this in which his fan club show up to exaggerate how great he was the last 4 years, and how he''s putting all the doubters straight with his good play this season, albeit in Div. 3. It is those blinded by the sheen off his head that really generate the negative comments that do appear on these pro-Doherty threads. You are so blinded by fantasy that you overstate his qualities, imagining him covering for the other 10 playerrs while still holding his own at CB. If he was that good, he''d have been swept up each of the times he held out for contract or when Lambert told him he was free to go. But he wasn''t. He''s having a good year.[/quote]

come again

[Rudolph Hucker 0]

You''re hopefull, Gut. He''s hiding!