Deja vu all over again . . .

[canary cherub 1]

When Delia & Co came on board, remember how relieved we were that Chase had gone?  We sucked up their praise "best fans in the world etc" basked in the rosy glow and swallowed everything they said without question.  I know I did anyway, for far too long.  That''s one of the reasons why we ended up in such a mess.

Now I can see it happening all over again.  The new board members are worshipped, any questioning is branded as negative or nitpicking. Well if they''re any good at all they will welcome valid constructive questioning and criticism to keep them on their toes. 

Please try to learn the lessons of the past.  Being a true fan doesn''t mean being an uncritical fan.

 

[AndyCanary 0]

So what would you critisize them for currently? [:^)]

[Joanna Grey 0]

[quote user="canary cherub "]

 

Now I can see it happening all over again.  The new board members are worshipped, any questioning is branded as negative or nitpicking. Well if they''re any good at all they will welcome valid constructive questioning and criticism to keep them on their toes. 

Please try to learn the lessons of the past.  Being a true fan doesn''t mean being an uncritical fan.

 

[/quote]

Which one of your questions has been branded as negative or nitpicking? Please give us some of your valid constructive questions and criticism.

[canary cherub 1]

I''m not looking to criticise but a couple of questions spring to mind:

i) at the AGM they told us that catering sales over the past 6 years were £20m, which sounds impressive but it''s not terribly relevant without knowing how much profit was generated.

ii) given the apparent disconnect re. selling Carrow Road, with Bowkett saying it was one of the options they were considering and Delia saying it wasn''t, what''s the actual situation?  At the AGM there was a mention of selling "property" but nothing more specific afaik.

 

[nutty nigel 7,902]

It''s called a honeymoon period. Where spin becomes "acting in a business like manner and putting the best possible view forward to prove a point".

Winning football helps. If it''s not wrong on the pitch then it''s not wrong off it.

 

[canary cherub 1]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

It''s called a honeymoon period. Where spin becomes "acting in a business like manner and putting the best possible view forward to prove a point".

Winning football helps. If it''s not wrong on the pitch then it''s not wrong off it.

[/quote]

Oh dear . . . last week things were going pretty well on the pitch at Crystal Palace, they were just off the playoffs.  Then bingo, they went into admin. 

The sad reality of the modern game is that fans can no longer simply enjoy the football and ignore what''s going on behind the scenes.  I remember clearly that  one of my first thoughts after we put the Chase era behind us was "thank goodness we can just think about football now".  I was dead wrong, completely wrong, and I still wish it wasn''t so.

 

 

[nutty nigel 7,902]

[quote user="canary cherub "][quote user="nutty nigel"]

It''s called a honeymoon period. Where spin becomes "acting in a business like manner and putting the best possible view forward to prove a point".

Winning football helps. If it''s not wrong on the pitch then it''s not wrong off it.

[/quote]

Oh dear . . . last week things were going pretty well on the pitch at Crystal Palace, they were just off the playoffs.  Then bingo, they went into admin. 

The sad reality of the modern game is that fans can no longer simply enjoy the football and ignore what''s going on behind the scenes.  I remember clearly that  one of my first thoughts after we put the Chase era behind us was "thank goodness we can just think about football now".  I was dead wrong, completely wrong, and I still wish it wasn''t so.

 

 

[/quote]

Cherub..

The point I was making was that winning football stops people becoming Fag Packet Accountants. Of course mistakes can still be made but nobody looks for them until it starts to go wrong. And then there''s a pecking order for such things. It goes something like :-

[8] Now there are Three Steps To Smith Out
Just listen and you will plainly see
As life the game moves along
And things do go wrong
Just follow steps one, two and three

Step one - you find a man to sack
Step two - you sack the next one too
Step three - you look into things more deeply
Yeah! that sure seems like Norwich to me

[Essex_Canary 6]

[quote user="canary cherub "]

I''m not looking to criticise but a couple of questions spring to mind:

i) at the AGM they told us that catering sales over the past 6 years were £20m, which sounds impressive but it''s not terribly relevant without knowing how much profit was generated.

ii) given the apparent disconnect re. selling Carrow Road, with Bowkett saying it was one of the options they were considering and Delia saying it wasn''t, what''s the actual situation?  At the AGM there was a mention of selling "property" but nothing more specific afaik.

 

[/quote]

The point about the turnover of the catering operation was a comparison to other clubs of our size, including those in the Premier League, it was relevant because you can realistically make the assumption that the turnover:profit ratio is likely to be comparable. It helps having a brand attached to it like Delia, but even if the profitability was insignificant the actual cash turnover is an important part of running the club - as Portsmouth and Palace have found out, sometimes its actually having access to money to pay bills!

With regards to the selling of Carrow Road, the Chairman is right, selling the ground is an option. Everything is an option, moving the club to the moon is an option - it doesn''t mean they are going to do it. They will an exhaustive due dillegence on any decision they make, whether it be increasing capacity etc, and make a decision accordingly. My feeling is whilst selling Carrow Road is technically an option, Delia and the board are commited to other methods of generation that mean this isn''t going to happen - no conspiracy, no tricks, no hidden agenda, just a board of directors investigating all possibilities, regardless of whether they are likely to ever come to fruition.

The club own a number of parcels of land, and as such using the word property allows them to be unspecific, given that naming exact plans brings an element of risk to any potential sale its sometimes better to be guarded in what you say in a public environment such as the AGM, before anything has been agreed, negociated or developed further.

[Yellow Rider 0]

[quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="canary cherub "][quote user="nutty nigel"]

It''s called a honeymoon period. Where spin becomes "acting in a business like manner and putting the best possible view forward to prove a point".

Winning football helps. If it''s not wrong on the pitch then it''s not wrong off it.

[/quote]

Oh dear . . . last week things were going pretty well on the pitch at Crystal Palace, they were just off the playoffs.  Then bingo, they went into admin. 

The sad reality of the modern game is that fans can no longer simply enjoy the football and ignore what''s going on behind the scenes.  I remember clearly that  one of my first thoughts after we put the Chase era behind us was "thank goodness we can just think about football now".  I was dead wrong, completely wrong, and I still wish it wasn''t so.

 

 

[/quote]

Cherub..

The point I was making was that winning football stops people becoming Fag Packet Accountants. Of course mistakes can still be made but nobody looks for them until it starts to go wrong. And then there''s a pecking order for such things. It goes something like :-

[8] Now there are Three Steps To Smith Out
Just listen and you will plainly see
As life the game moves along
And things do go wrong
Just follow steps one, two and three

Step one - you find a man to sack
Step two - you sack the next one too
Step three - you look into things more deeply
Yeah! that sure seems like Norwich to me

[/quote]

Stop digging a hole for yourself Nutty.

Take Manure - little wrong on the field past couple of seasons but the club went from being a profitable business to one loaded with £700M debt. Everyone has noticed that little problem despite the trophies continuing to stack up. Ditto Liverpool - albeit with no trophies of course.

[Shaun Tilly Lace 0]

I''m just happy that that daft word "prudence" (doomy''s favourite) hasn''t been heard for some time. The new board might not use the word "ambition" but I sense, maybe naively, that they are ambitious.

[nutty nigel 7,902]

[quote user="Yellow Rider"][

Stop digging a hole for yourself Nutty.

Take Manure - little wrong on the field past couple of seasons but the club went from being a profitable business to one loaded with £700M debt. Everyone has noticed that little problem despite the trophies continuing to stack up. Ditto Liverpool - albeit with no trophies of course.

[/quote]

I''m digging no hole Yellow Rider. I am talking about Norwich City and not Manchester United. All the problems and criticisms that are now used in retrospect were never mentioned until the sacking of Worthington didn''t have the desired result and in many cases long after that. Many of the whingers and whiners on this very board supported the spend on infrastructure, even the Heartbreak Hotel, when it was first announced. We were winning football matches and everything in the garden was rosey!

You my friend are digging your own hole so fast your middle name must be Jase (cb)[:O]

 

[TIL 1010 5,246]

I have a nasty feeling that this thread is about to get derailed.Cherub is attempting to draw a comparison between the end of the Chase regime and now and eleven posts down the line up pops Nutty bringing Worthington into it.

Predictable or what?

[nutty nigel 7,902]

Let''s talk about Peter Grant instead then [:|]

Is Curo still here Tilly[:^)]

Predictable or what?

 

[canary cherub 1]

[quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="Yellow Rider"][

Stop digging a hole for yourself Nutty.

Take Manure - little wrong on the field past couple of seasons but the club went from being a profitable business to one loaded with £700M debt. Everyone has noticed that little problem despite the trophies continuing to stack up. Ditto Liverpool - albeit with no trophies of course.

[/quote]

I''m digging no hole Yellow Rider. I am talking about Norwich City and not Manchester United. All the problems and criticisms that are now used in retrospect were never mentioned until the sacking of Worthington didn''t have the desired result and in many cases long after that. Many of the whingers and whiners on this very board supported the spend on infrastructure, even the Heartbreak Hotel, when it was first announced. We were winning football matches and everything in the garden was rosey!

You my friend are digging your own hole so fast your middle name must be Jase (cb)[:O]

 

[/quote]

That''s exactly the point I''m trying to make.  The signs were there, but we ignored them for far too long and the damage was well and truly done by the time the penny dropped.  Lesson learned.  Don''t let it happen again.  Enjoy the football but keep your eyes open and don''t swallow everything they say without question. 

 

[nutty nigel 7,902]

[quote user="canary cherub "][

That''s exactly the point I''m trying to make.  The signs were there, but we ignored them for far too long and the damage was well and truly done by the time the penny dropped.  Lesson learned.  Don''t let it happen again.  Enjoy the football but keep your eyes open and don''t swallow everything they say without question. 

 

[/quote]

I know it was Cherub. But the signs were always there. Like all those years ago when Chase sold Townsend and Linighan for millions and spent a few bob on Blades, Woodthorpe and Polston. When we lost 0-4 to Wimbledon we sat down in protest yet when we started winning again and won in Munich a few years later we didn''t care anymore. We swallowed what he said without question. But when we started to lose again the damage was well and truly done and the penny dropped. But we always let it happen again and the lesson is never learned. Maybe because there isn''t really a lesson to learn.

 

[canary cherub 1]

[quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="canary cherub "][

That''s exactly the point I''m trying to make.  The signs were there, but we ignored them for far too long and the damage was well and truly done by the time the penny dropped.  Lesson learned.  Don''t let it happen again.  Enjoy the football but keep your eyes open and don''t swallow everything they say without question. 

 

[/quote]

I know it was Cherub. But the signs were always there. Like all those years ago when Chase sold Townsend and Linighan for millions and spent a few bob on Blades, Woodthorpe and Polston. When we lost 0-4 to Wimbledon we sat down in protest yet when we started winning again and won in Munich a few years later we didn''t care anymore. We swallowed what he said without question. But when we started to lose again the damage was well and truly done and the penny dropped. But we always let it happen again and the lesson is never learned. Maybe because there isn''t really a lesson to learn.

[/quote]

Cobblers.

 

[lappinitup 629]

[quote user="canary cherub "]Oh dear . . . last week things were going pretty well on the pitch at Crystal Palace, they were just off the playoffs.  Then bingo, they went into admin.[/quote]They have a much more powerful wizard than we do.........

[. 0]

[quote user="canary cherub "]

When Delia & Co came on board, remember how relieved we were that Chase had gone?  We sucked up their praise "best fans in the world etc" basked in the rosy glow and swallowed everything they said without question.  I know I did anyway, for far too long.  That''s one of the reasons why we ended up in such a mess.

Now I can see it happening all over again.  The new board members are worshipped, any questioning is branded as negative or nitpicking. Well if they''re any good at all they will welcome valid constructive questioning and criticism to keep them on their toes. 

Please try to learn the lessons of the past.  Being a true fan doesn''t mean being an uncritical fan.

 

[/quote]

Nope CC (MM)... I didn''t back then...... and not a single thing will change at CR as long as we have such a soppy figurehead. We have become as squeaky as a dry dishcloth and the lunatics are still running the asylum just as before.

While all those around me are losing their heads after a run of results in a Mickey Mouse league...I''m keeping mine firmly in place.

It''s reassuring to know that there are others who are doing likewise.....