606 - Bloke from Leeds

[a1canary 0]

He was actually a West Spam fan strangely, despite sounding like a native of Yorkshire, but was talking about money ruining the game and the fact the Terry''s and other''s behaviour can be attributed to their obscene wealth.

He was dead right though, yet that idiot Marcotti who really thinks he''s it, just slapped him down and said these footballers pay lots in tax, as if their wages are some sort of community service. Give me a break! My god, even the pundits can''t see it.

Until we wake up and realise that sucking so much money out the game in order to line the pockets of the few to levels that we can barely comprehend, the mess that football, that we, and that so many other clubs are in is never going to go away.

So there. I''m in a mood this morning. Bloody Mondays.

[Jacko 0]

Marcotti is a muppett. He suggested the world cup final should go to a replay rather than being decided on penalties. What a logistical nightmare that idea would be....

[taintedtom2000 0]

Im so so happy someone else agrees on the Marcotti front! (apologies to the OP as I know this wasn''t the theme of the thread)

I''m sick of his smarmy, arrogant and out of touch punditry and seriously can''t see how the Beeb havn''t picked up on it yet. He behaves as if his sole role is to belittle as many callers as possible and I have to turn over as soon as I hear that he is on a show.

Awful man.

[a1canary 0]

Don''t worry about it Tom, i can sympathise - he is a prize nob. I was shouting at the radio last night! For someone as educated and well travelled as him (he''s lived in several countries, speaks lots of languages and has multiple degrees), you''d expect him to have a broader view, but he''s totally one-eyed and doesn''t accept anyone else''s point of view.

[Buncey 1]

Marcotti does nothing different to what Greeny, and other pundits have done in the past, and often he shows an intellect for the game that Hansen, Wright and Co. could ever wish of havingI do agree that money is taking away some of the positive aspects of the game, but money is the major force in any business and football is no exception. It would be foolish to think that lowering players wages would even be possible, let alone effective. There are a limited supply of quality footballers, and considering the massively excessive demand for them, it is not surprising that football players wages have ballooned. I don''t think anybody would disagree that their wages seem unreasonable compared to the work say a joiner does, but being a world class footballer is a skill set owned by a handful of players across the entire globe.

[taintedtom2000 0]

[quote user="Fellas"]Marcotti does nothing different to what Greeny, and other pundits have done in the past, and often he shows an intellect for the game that Hansen, Wright and Co. could ever wish of having

I do agree that money is taking away some of the positive aspects of the game, but money is the major force in any business and football is no exception. It would be foolish to think that lowering players wages would even be possible, let alone effective. There are a limited supply of quality footballers, and considering the massively excessive demand for them, it is not surprising that football players wages have ballooned. I don''t think anybody would disagree that their wages seem unreasonable compared to the work say a joiner does, but being a world class footballer is a skill set owned by a handful of players across the entire globe.
[/quote]

You''re point about the few with the talant of ''world class'' performers being limited is a good one, however i think where that arguement fails is when players who are not world class earn way over the odds (i.e in comparison to the joiner).

I''m not saying that there should be a huge gulf between those who are world class and those that arn''t, but I think this is where the line of what is an acceptable wage packet for a footballer becomes blurred.

In short, does the joiner deserve the £30,000 per year for his skills? does a player such as Jamie Cureton deserve to be paid £5,000 a week based on ability? in the same way that John Terry desrves £100,000 per week in relation to his ability? (obviously these wages are just examples and probably not too accurate)

I just can''t see that the ability of what someone does is reflected in football in the same way it is in the traditional workplace.

 

[Jacko 0]

[quote user="taintedtom2000"]

I just can''t see that the ability of what someone does is reflected in football in the same way it is in the traditional workplace. [/quote]

I guess the answer to that is that football isnt real the same as a traditional workplace. To be fair 25,000 people dont turn up to watch us do our jobs.

[Mook 0]

[quote user="taintedtom2000"]

I just can''t see that the ability of what someone does is reflected in football in the same way it is in the traditional workplace.

[/quote]Well for a start 40,000 people don''t go to watch a carpenter, week in, week out. Nor do millions of people subscribe to Sky Sports to watch someone in the Purchasing Department complete a game of "Freecell" in record time. Nor are the backpages of every newspaper, and front to some degree, filled with incidents about a civil engineer''s latest motorway bridge.Put simply, the interest generated on web forums, radio shows, TV shows, in fact complete wall-to-wall TV channels, newspapers, football grounds feeds the advertisers, who in turn feed the clubs with tons of money. That money gets paid to those around which the game revolves.Basically - if we all stop buying into the myth of being a supporter (which is the modern day equivalent of being patriotic) then the clubs will have to reduce wages, as the revenue streams will dry up.

[beasto 0]

The trouble is that no-one (with perhaps a few exceptions...) is paid for how good they are at their job, or even how valuable their job is to society. You may be paid more in your team / company depanding on how you rank against other team members (although probably not), but on a wider scale that''s not the case. In truth, as unfortunate as it may be, we are paid according to how much money we are financially worth in what we do - that is to say how much we can either make or save for someone else

[O.T.B.C 0]

Can''t stand Marcotti, he is a bell end.

[taintedtom2000 0]

[quote user="Mook"][quote user="taintedtom2000"]

I just can''t see that the ability of what someone does is reflected in football in the same way it is in the traditional workplace.

[/quote]

Well for a start 40,000 people don''t go to watch a carpenter, week in, week out. Nor do millions of people subscribe to Sky Sports to watch someone in the Purchasing Department complete a game of "Freecell" in record time. Nor are the backpages of every newspaper, and front to some degree, filled with incidents about a civil engineer''s latest motorway bridge.

Put simply, the interest generated on web forums, radio shows, TV shows, in fact complete wall-to-wall TV channels, newspapers, football grounds feeds the advertisers, who in turn feed the clubs with tons of money. That money gets paid to those around which the game revolves.

Basically - if we all stop buying into the myth of being a supporter (which is the modern day equivalent of being patriotic) then the clubs will have to reduce wages, as the revenue streams will dry up.
[/quote]

Excellent point Mook, the more you look into this phenomenon the more you question your role as a ''supporter'' and the true value the club have for YOU let alone their players.

To be honest with you, I don''t think I could get the same amount of enjoyment from supporting a team built around a franchise. It may be strange for some to see, but I''d much rather the promotion/relegation battles and never quite being totally sure which end you''ll be at the beginning of a season than constantly being in the ''Big Four'' in the Premiership.

If you never experience the lows, the highs just don''t feel as good!!

[Beauseant 0]

Bring back Danny Baker!

[O.T.B.C 0]

[quote user="Mook"][quote user="taintedtom2000"]

I just can''t see that the ability of what someone does is reflected in football in the same way it is in the traditional workplace.

[/quote]

Well for a start 40,000 people don''t go to watch a carpenter, week in, week out. Nor do millions of people subscribe to Sky Sports to watch someone in the Purchasing Department complete a game of "Freecell" in record time. Nor are the backpages of every newspaper, and front to some degree, filled with incidents about a civil engineer''s latest motorway bridge.

Put simply, the interest generated on web forums, radio shows, TV shows, in fact complete wall-to-wall TV channels, newspapers, football grounds feeds the advertisers, who in turn feed the clubs with tons of money. That money gets paid to those around which the game revolves.

Basically - if we all stop buying into the myth of being a supporter (which is the modern day equivalent of being patriotic) then the clubs will have to reduce wages, as the revenue streams will dry up.
[/quote]

Good point.

[a1canary 0]

Great post Mook. If you saw Man City v Pompey the other week you may have wished you were watching Bev from Purchasing completing Freecell!

You''re right that the sport has fuelled a massive accompanying footy based media industry, which is an economy in itself. I''ve got no problem with that. What i do have a problem with is that to much of the money in the ''football economy'' is ending in the pockets of players at the expense of our clubs. The clubs that we keep alive, yet have little choice but to feed the monster that has been created or face our wrath for ''underinvesting'' in our teams.

Yes, clubs can chose not to chase the dream and stretch themselves to breaking point, but can they really choose to do that when you have supporters on the other side baying for blood. Clubs are between the proverbial rock and hard place. Obviously we''re not going to stop buying in to it which is why more control needs to be exerted at a higher level. Don''t ask me how, but i don''t believe it''s impossible. UEFA''s suggesting of limiting club''s borrowings is a (small) start.

[Sing Up The South Stand 0]

As people have said, it''s really a case of supply and demand.  There''s a relatively small supply of footballers good enough to be pro''s, but the demand for them is almost constant.  I know it''s questionable that Cureton for example was worth his 5k a week, but I guess - when we got him, having just won the Championship Golden Boot with Colchester, scoring 23 goals he was going to get a decent wage, because it ain''t easy to find a player who had that record so naturally the wage got pushed up as he knew we needed someone with his record (at that time).

Are footballers wages any different to say popstars and actors?  Most of which (maybe with the exception of popstars who have to put in a lot of promotion) get far much more money than for the work they have to put in (i.e. apparently Brad Pitt get''s up to 30 million per film).  Just the nature of the entertainment industry - even at a lower level - if a decent number of people want to pay to watch them, they are always going to earn more than us mere mortals.

[Barclaybred 0]

But ponder this..a guy works in a big garage earns £300 a week and is superb at his job,a guy works in next bay,does enough not to get sacked and does an okay job on a motor...and gets.....£300...This is the same in many industeries.so swings and roundabouts.... 

[walks on water 0]

[quote user="taintedtom2000"]

[quote user="Fellas"]Marcotti does nothing different to what Greeny, and other pundits have done in the past, and often he shows an intellect for the game that Hansen, Wright and Co. could ever wish of having

I do agree that money is taking away some of the positive aspects of the game, but money is the major force in any business and football is no exception. It would be foolish to think that lowering players wages would even be possible, let alone effective. There are a limited supply of quality footballers, and considering the massively excessive demand for them, it is not surprising that football players wages have ballooned. I don''t think anybody would disagree that their wages seem unreasonable compared to the work say a joiner does, but being a world class footballer is a skill set owned by a handful of players across the entire globe.
[/quote]

You''re point about the few with the talant of ''world class'' performers being limited is a good one, however i think where that arguement fails is when players who are not world class earn way over the odds (i.e in comparison to the joiner).

I''m not saying that there should be a huge gulf between those who are world class and those that arn''t, but I think this is where the line of what is an acceptable wage packet for a footballer becomes blurred.

In short, does the joiner deserve the £30,000 per year for his skills? does a player such as Jamie Cureton deserve to be paid £5,000 a week based on ability? in the same way that John Terry desrves £100,000 per week in relation to his ability? (obviously these wages are just examples and probably not too accurate)

I just can''t see that the ability of what someone does is reflected in football in the same way it is in the traditional workplace.

 

[/quote]

 

After Man City came sniffing around didn''t Terry delay committing his future to Chelski until he was offered improved terms that have been reported to be in the region of £170,000 a week?

I''m 39, quite physically fit, (gym/swimming/running) work bloody hard on 12 hour shifts & am thoroughly knackered by my blue collar work that plays havoc with my body clock & family/social life -although feel damn lucky to have a fairly secure job. My younger brother got straight A*''s, went to Oxford Uni from a very working class background, got a 2.1 went into management consulting, then worked for the Bank of England, then the FSA, then Nomura Asset Management, and now Fidelity in the square mile. He''s jumped through every academic hoop placed before him & excelled, but can''t afford to buy a suitable roof over his family''s heads. I will be in my sixties by the time I''ve paid my mortgage off.

 JT could pay off my house working just over half a week playing football !  He nearly ''earns'' more in a week than we pay the position of Prime Minister.

 

However good he is at kicking a ball, how can people support such obscenity ? Utterly astounding that this is still sustainable.

[shefcanary 2,388]

When footballers now demand a net salary figure going into the bank before they''ll talk about signing then you know the game is on a sticky wicket.  No wonder the likes of Pompey are having a problem paying HMRC when they cannot budget at the beginning of a season what their tax bill might be because their top players continue to play around with their tax residencies etc.  Basically it is now a license for HMRC to come and charge any club they know of operating contracts under such a regime to challenge their returns and seek more tax. 

Footballers and their agents have gone too far now - get paid well, accept your obligations and pay your bloody tax like any decent person would.  Instead of getting crap tattoos nowadays a lot of footballers spend all their "spare" time in meetings with the agents, lawyers and accountants discussing how to avoid tax and where to invest money offshore to avoid paying tax here in the UK.  I wish a thousand collapsing Dubai pyramid schemes upno them.

Bring back the maximum wage for footballers - that Jimmy Hill killed football as a working class sport!

[LinkNR9 0]

So, just because he''s been caught sh**ging, Terry''s worse than the Anti-Christ?

I''m not a Chelski fan or a John Terry fan, but come on.... I''m sure that most posters on here know someone who''s been less than faithful to their partners and haven''t been outraged - be honest now. In fact, I''m willing to bet that a few of the posters on here can''t throw stones, having surrounded themselves by glass houses and all that...

Has the moral majority suddenly appeared on this Forum? I doubt it.  

[a1canary 0]

Sorry Link, have you strayed on to the wrong post? There''s another thread about Terry''s dick! No-one on here is talking about how outraged or not they are by what Terry did. This is about whether or not money and over-inflated wages are at the root of the games many ills.

@Sheff Canary - avoiding tax? Surely not. After all, Gabriele Marcotti says they all pay their taxes like good boys and provide a service to the treasury!

[shefcanary 2,388]

[quote user="a1canary"]Sorry Link, have you strayed on to the wrong post? There''s another thread about Terry''s dick! No-one on here is talking about how outraged or not they are by what Terry did. This is about whether or not money and over-inflated wages are at the root of the games many ills. @Sheff Canary - avoiding tax? Surely not. After all, Gabriele Marcotti says they all pay their taxes like good boys and provide a service to the treasury![/quote]

Yeah just like Marcotti probably doesn''t claim for his Sky HD subscription and all his newspapers, his first class travel tickets and his lunch and drinks (probably his new 50" plasma screen TV, and DAB radio as well) back from the BBC (AKA the British Licence payer).  As others have said, he''s a t*sser especially if he truly believes that all footballers pay all the tax they should.