DOC IN THE FRAME

[Smudger 0]

It seems that Houston has more of a clue than many who have attended many games this season and who are still unable to see that Doherty and Nelson have made countless mistakes over the last few weeks which finally cost us points today at The Den.Whitbread showed the pair of them how to defend over the last 20 mins even though Lambert went from 4 to 3 at the back, shifting the useless Giunger Oaf upfront.Doherty and Nelson who are apparently good in the air won not one aerial challenge all afternoon as Millwall floated cross after cross right across our back four aiming at the aged Harris and the rest of Milllwall''s poor strikeforce.As I have been saying for a while, these two should be replaced as soon as one of our other centre halves is fit enough to step in.  Both Doherty and Nelson struggle to hold their own in the 3rd tier and if we are promoted then both should be well down the pecking order in the Championship because they quite simply are not good enough for that level!

[The gut 0]

Funny old world innit Houston, here we have someone crediting you with having more of a clue etc..., yet proving the anti Doherty post was not too far away mmmm.

[Houston Canary 0]

Despite what so many of you think, Smudger has an open mind. It is that gift that makes his comments worth reading. He is not blinded by emotion, and therefore offers a much more believable version of team affairs.

He is also quite funny, which always gets points with me. "Ginger oaf" had me laughing!

As for anti-Doherty posts, there have not been any in months, so........ so what is your point on that?

[Indy_Bones 441]

[quote user="Graham Humphrey"]How many games have you seen Indy? Doc is easily our best ball-playing centre-back (discounting Whitbread who we haven''t seen much of yet). [/quote]Graham,I''ve not seen as many games in recent months as I''d have liked due to geography and finances, however I have seen more than enough of Doherty (and the rest of the squad), both this season and over the last few years to make constructive observations about his playing ability.In no way is he our best ''ball playing'' defender, as his favoured choice is the 40 yard lump forwards, which perhaps gets near one of our strikers on about 15% of occasions. I''ve also seen a number of truly awful passes to both his defensive partners and the keeper, which on occasion have cost us, and on others didn''t - but really should have...As a strong physical presence at the back, he''s arguably as good as anyone in this league, but was found out badly in the prem and ccc, and also seems to suffer from confidence issues from time to time.Whitbread is a good signing by Lambert, but I''d left him out of full consideration at the minute due to his fitness recovery period etc, but I''m sure he''ll also be pushing hard for a place and is more likely to be in contention should we get promoted than Nelson and possibly Askou will (as we just don''t know how Askou would cope at that level).Good point you make about wages, and for me it''s arguably the key factor, why would we pay 2-3 times more per week for Doherty than we would for our other options, when he''s clearly not 2-3 times superior? I know there''s a law of diminishing returns here, but even so, there''s no way he''s worth even double the other choices. This is likely to be more than enough to make Lambert think very hard about a new contract, and unless Doherty is willing to take a much lower wage, he''s likely to be gone in the summer...

[Scottlarock 3]

[quote user="Smudger"]It seems that Houston has more of a clue than many who have attended many games this season and who are still unable to see that Doherty and Nelson have made countless mistakes over the last few weeks which finally cost us points today at The Den.Whitbread showed the pair of them how to defend over the last 20 mins even though Lambert went from 4 to 3 at the back, shifting the useless Giunger Oaf upfront.Doherty and Nelson who are apparently good in the air won not one aerial challenge all afternoon as Millwall floated cross after cross right across our back four aiming at the aged Harris and the rest of Milllwall''s poor strikeforce.As I have been saying for a while, these two should be replaced as soon as one of our other centre halves is fit enough to step in.  Both Doherty and Nelson struggle to hold their own in the 3rd tier and if we are promoted then both should be well down the pecking order in the Championship because they quite simply are not good enough for that level! [/quote]Good post Smudger and couldn''t agree more.

[ZLF 271]

It says more about the strikers at the club than Doc being an oaf that he was put up front yesetrday.

Without holt we do not have  striker who can make the ball stick.  Cody is abysmal at that and while OJ is better he is not yet good enough.  Sticking Doc up front was a desperate attempt to ensure do what we have done best this season,  and defend from the front;   getting the ball to stay in the top third of the pitch for as long as possible,  and out strikers did not do that. Tactically it was a sound thing to do to win the game (no point having mcnamee on without someone to aim for) and nothing to do with doc defensive inabilities.   

As with last week it seems the midfield were completely second best for the whole game.   They have been the bed rock of our success this season.  Defending a high line, winning the ball back and providing a line of defence that was not present last season.  Last week russell sat on nelsons and docs toes,   which is where the midfield sat last season.   That gives our opponents space to breathe and room to get the ball wide as well as completely constricting the defenders, whoever they may be. 

We were the poorer team again yesterday but the main problems were not with the defence but midfield and attack,  where we offered not defencive cover or creativity - how many chances did we make???  And the goals,  one was a fluke that was covered by the keeper and the other was a completely unmarked centre forward - doc had his man covered,  who did not do their job?

The return of Holt will help enormously.  As will Drury when he comes back as he gives us a far better attacking outlet with Lappin than Rose.

And yes I do see whitbread starting next week and he will be partnering Doc at the back,  and I am pretty confident that we will then have  the best possible pair not just for this club but also in this league.

But unless the midfield step up their game from the last couple,  both  physically up the pitch and in terms of digging deep effort, we will continue to allow ourselves to be put under more pressure than we should

[nutty nigel 7,509]

[quote user="ZippersLeftFoot"]

It says more about the strikers at the club than Doc being an oaf that he was put up front yesetrday.

Without holt we do not have  striker who can make the ball stick.  Cody is abysmal at that and while OJ is better he is not yet good enough.  Sticking Doc up front was a desperate attempt to ensure do what we have done best this season,  and defend from the front;   getting the ball to stay in the top third of the pitch for as long as possible,  and out strikers did not do that. Tactically it was a sound thing to do to win the game (no point having mcnamee on without someone to aim for) and nothing to do with doc defensive inabilities.   

As with last week it seems the midfield were completely second best for the whole game.   They have been the bed rock of our success this season.  Defending a high line, winning the ball back and providing a line of defence that was not present last season.  Last week russell sat on nelsons and docs toes,   which is where the midfield sat last season.   That gives our opponents space to breathe and room to get the ball wide as well as completely constricting the defenders, whoever they may be. 

We were the poorer team again yesterday but the main problems were not with the defence but midfield and attack,  where we offered not defencive cover or creativity - how many chances did we make???  And the goals,  one was a fluke that was covered by the keeper and the other was a completely unmarked centre forward - doc had his man covered,  who did not do their job?

The return of Holt will help enormously.  As will Drury when he comes back as he gives us a far better attacking outlet with Lappin than Rose.

And yes I do see whitbread starting next week and he will be partnering Doc at the back,  and I am pretty confident that we will then have  the best possible pair not just for this club but also in this league.

But unless the midfield step up their game from the last couple,  both  physically up the pitch and in terms of digging deep effort, we will continue to allow ourselves to be put under more pressure than we should

[/quote]

Good post Zipper and I couldn''t agree more.

 

[GJP 79]

[quote user="Indy_Bones"][quote user="Graham Humphrey"]How many games have you seen Indy? Doc is easily our best ball-playing centre-back (discounting Whitbread who we haven''t seen much of yet). [/quote]
Graham,

I''ve not seen as many games in recent months as I''d have liked due to geography and finances, however I have seen more than enough of Doherty (and the rest of the squad), both this season and over the last few years to make constructive observations about his playing ability.

In no way is he our best ''ball playing'' defender, as his favoured choice is the 40 yard lump forwards, which perhaps gets near one of our strikers on about 15% of occasions. I''ve also seen a number of truly awful passes to both his defensive partners and the keeper, which on occasion have cost us, and on others didn''t - but really should have...

As a strong physical presence at the back, he''s arguably as good as anyone in this league, but was found out badly in the prem and ccc, and also seems to suffer from confidence issues from time to time.

Whitbread is a good signing by Lambert, but I''d left him out of full consideration at the minute due to his fitness recovery period etc, but I''m sure he''ll also be pushing hard for a place and is more likely to be in contention should we get promoted than Nelson and possibly Askou will (as we just don''t know how Askou would cope at that level).

Good point you make about wages, and for me it''s arguably the key factor, why would we pay 2-3 times more per week for Doherty than we would for our other options, when he''s clearly not 2-3 times superior? I know there''s a law of diminishing returns here, but even so, there''s no way he''s worth even double the other choices. This is likely to be more than enough to make Lambert think very hard about a new contract, and unless Doherty is willing to take a much lower wage, he''s likely to be gone in the summer...
[/quote]

No, Graham is correct. Doherty is our best (and probably only) good ball playing centreback. He rarely gives the ball away and some of his long passing has been an absolute treat. He''s showing what a good footballer he is. Some of the little touches he makes and the way he shapes his body to buy himself time on the ball has been very classy. The others don''t look like they''ve got it in the locker.

I read your earlier post, if you genuinely think Spillane is the best when it comes to using the ball and bringing it out of defence you really haven''t watched these guys play enough or you just plain don''t know what you''re talking about.

Without bringing Zak Whitbread into it, Doherty remains the best we''ve got both defensively and with the ball at his feet. I think most fans who watch us regularly and know a bit about football would recognise that.

 

 

[grantroederdisaster 0]

Pleasure to read someone saying it like it actually is GJP unlike messrs Smudger and Houston!

[The gut 0]

[quote user="Houston Canary"]Despite what so many of you think, Smudger has an open mind. It is that gift that makes his comments worth reading. He is not blinded by emotion, and therefore offers a much more believable version of team affairs. He is also quite funny, which always gets points with me. "Ginger oaf" had me laughing! As for anti-Doherty posts, there have not been any in months, so........ so what is your point on that?[/quote]

Now I ain''t knocking Smudger, but how you can glean from this message board that he has the "gift of open mind" is beyond me (like the majority of your posts). As for my point, it''s over there. You go and look for it. I''ll be having a smoke and brew. You can bring it to me if you find it, I won''t have gone far. 

[Smudger 0]

[quote user="ZippersLeftFoot"]

It says more about the strikers at the club than Doc being an oaf that he was put up front yesetrday.

Without holt we do not have  striker who can make the ball stick.  Cody is abysmal at that and while OJ is better he is not yet good enough.  Sticking Doc up front was a desperate attempt to ensure do what we have done best this season,  and defend from the front;   getting the ball to stay in the top third of the pitch for as long as possible,  and out strikers did not do that. Tactically it was a sound thing to do to win the game (no point having mcnamee on without someone to aim for) and nothing to do with doc defensive inabilities.   

As with last week it seems the midfield were completely second best for the whole game.   They have been the bed rock of our success this season.  Defending a high line, winning the ball back and providing a line of defence that was not present last season.  Last week russell sat on nelsons and docs toes,   which is where the midfield sat last season.   That gives our opponents space to breathe and room to get the ball wide as well as completely constricting the defenders, whoever they may be. 

We were the poorer team again yesterday but the main problems were not with the defence but midfield and attack,  where we offered not defencive cover or creativity - how many chances did we make???  And the goals,  one was a fluke that was covered by the keeper and the other was a completely unmarked centre forward - doc had his man covered,  who did not do their job?

The return of Holt will help enormously.  As will Drury when he comes back as he gives us a far better attacking outlet with Lappin than Rose.

And yes I do see whitbread starting next week and he will be partnering Doc at the back,  and I am pretty confident that we will then have  the best possible pair not just for this club but also in this league.

But unless the midfield step up their game from the last couple,  both  physically up the pitch and in terms of digging deep effort, we will continue to allow ourselves to be put under more pressure than we should

[/quote]So the shocking defending for both Millwall''s first and second goals was the midfields fault was it?

[Rudolph Hucker 0]

[quSmudger wrote: It seems that Houston has more of a clue than many who have attended many games this season and who are still unable to see that Doherty and Nelson have made countless mistakes over the last few weeks which finally cost us points today at The Den.Whitbread showed the pair of them how to defend over the last 20 mins even though Lambert went from 4 to 3 at the back, shifting the useless Giunger Oaf upfront.Doherty and Nelson who are apparently good in the air won not one aerial challenge all afternoon as Millwall floated cross after cross right across our back four aiming at the aged Harris and the rest of Milllwall''s poor strikeforce.As I have been saying for a while, these two should be replaced as soon as one of our other centre halves is fit enough to step in.  Both Doherty and Nelson struggle to hold their own in the 3rd tier and if we are promoted then both should be well down the pecking order in the Championship because they quite simply are not good enough for that level!

Yup! That Houston certainly knows her ''soccer!''

[Smudger 0]

[quote user="GJP"]

[quote user="Indy_Bones"][quote user="Graham Humphrey"]How many games have you seen Indy? Doc is easily our best ball-playing centre-back (discounting Whitbread who we haven''t seen much of yet). [/quote]Graham,I''ve not seen as many games in recent months as I''d have liked due to geography and finances, however I have seen more than enough of Doherty (and the rest of the squad), both this season and over the last few years to make constructive observations about his playing ability.In no way is he our best ''ball playing'' defender, as his favoured choice is the 40 yard lump forwards, which perhaps gets near one of our strikers on about 15% of occasions. I''ve also seen a number of truly awful passes to both his defensive partners and the keeper, which on occasion have cost us, and on others didn''t - but really should have...As a strong physical presence at the back, he''s arguably as good as anyone in this league, but was found out badly in the prem and ccc, and also seems to suffer from confidence issues from time to time.Whitbread is a good signing by Lambert, but I''d left him out of full consideration at the minute due to his fitness recovery period etc, but I''m sure he''ll also be pushing hard for a place and is more likely to be in contention should we get promoted than Nelson and possibly Askou will (as we just don''t know how Askou would cope at that level).Good point you make about wages, and for me it''s arguably the key factor, why would we pay 2-3 times more per week for Doherty than we would for our other options, when he''s clearly not 2-3 times superior? I know there''s a law of diminishing returns here, but even so, there''s no way he''s worth even double the other choices. This is likely to be more than enough to make Lambert think very hard about a new contract, and unless Doherty is willing to take a much lower wage, he''s likely to be gone in the summer...[/quote]

No, Graham is correct. Doherty is our best (and probably only) good ball playing centreback. He rarely gives the ball away and some of his long passing has been an absolute treat. He''s showing what a good footballer he is. Some of the little touches he makes and the way he shapes his body to buy himself time on the ball has been very classy. The others don''t look like they''ve got it in the locker.

I read your earlier post, if you genuinely think Spillane is the best when it comes to using the ball and bringing it out of defence you really haven''t watched these guys play enough or you just plain don''t know what you''re talking about.

Without bringing Zak Whitbread into it, Doherty remains the best we''ve got both defensively and with the ball at his feet. I think most fans who watch us regularly and know a bit about football would recognise that.

 

 

[/quote]Anybody in the world who knows anything about football does not rate the Doc.That is why when a free agent a while back he could not get a contract anywhere else.  That is also why Lambert will bomb him out in the summer... because he will bring another centre half like Whitbread in who is ten times better and on less money.Our Premiership signing Gary Doherty has found his level in the 3rd tier of English Football.  I wonder if he fancies playing for Colchester next season???

[nutty nigel 7,509]

[quote user="Smudger"]

Anybody in the world who knows anything about football does not rate the Doc.

[/quote]

You and Whitney should get married[;)]

 

[Guest]

[quote user="Smudger"]

Anybody in the world who knows anything about football does not rate the Doc.[/quote]Eh? What about our last four/five managers?

[Rudolph Hucker 0]

This is now my biggest and bestest ever thread. I''d like to pay tribute to Doc for making it all possible, all of you out there for your contributions and give special thanks to Smudger and Houston for keeping it all going.

[GJP 79]

[quote user="Smudger"][quote user="GJP"]

[quote user="Indy_Bones"][quote user="Graham Humphrey"]How many games have you seen Indy? Doc is easily our best ball-playing centre-back (discounting Whitbread who we haven''t seen much of yet). [/quote]
Graham,

I''ve not seen as many games in recent months as I''d have liked due to geography and finances, however I have seen more than enough of Doherty (and the rest of the squad), both this season and over the last few years to make constructive observations about his playing ability.

In no way is he our best ''ball playing'' defender, as his favoured choice is the 40 yard lump forwards, which perhaps gets near one of our strikers on about 15% of occasions. I''ve also seen a number of truly awful passes to both his defensive partners and the keeper, which on occasion have cost us, and on others didn''t - but really should have...

As a strong physical presence at the back, he''s arguably as good as anyone in this league, but was found out badly in the prem and ccc, and also seems to suffer from confidence issues from time to time.

Whitbread is a good signing by Lambert, but I''d left him out of full consideration at the minute due to his fitness recovery period etc, but I''m sure he''ll also be pushing hard for a place and is more likely to be in contention should we get promoted than Nelson and possibly Askou will (as we just don''t know how Askou would cope at that level).

Good point you make about wages, and for me it''s arguably the key factor, why would we pay 2-3 times more per week for Doherty than we would for our other options, when he''s clearly not 2-3 times superior? I know there''s a law of diminishing returns here, but even so, there''s no way he''s worth even double the other choices. This is likely to be more than enough to make Lambert think very hard about a new contract, and unless Doherty is willing to take a much lower wage, he''s likely to be gone in the summer...
[/quote]

No, Graham is correct. Doherty is our best (and probably only) good ball playing centreback. He rarely gives the ball away and some of his long passing has been an absolute treat. He''s showing what a good footballer he is. Some of the little touches he makes and the way he shapes his body to buy himself time on the ball has been very classy. The others don''t look like they''ve got it in the locker.

I read your earlier post, if you genuinely think Spillane is the best when it comes to using the ball and bringing it out of defence you really haven''t watched these guys play enough or you just plain don''t know what you''re talking about.

Without bringing Zak Whitbread into it, Doherty remains the best we''ve got both defensively and with the ball at his feet. I think most fans who watch us regularly and know a bit about football would recognise that.

 

 

[/quote]

Anybody in the world who knows anything about football does not rate the Doc.

That is why when a free agent a while back he could not get a contract anywhere else.  That is also why Lambert will bomb him out in the summer... because he will bring another centre half like Whitbread in who is ten times better and on less money.

Our Premiership signing Gary Doherty has found his level in the 3rd tier of English Football.  I wonder if he fancies playing for Colchester next season???
[/quote]

Hmm

Yet the Doc has been playing professional football for over 10 years and has started something in the region of 300-400 games in that time. Not to mention that he''s been capped internationally as well.

He''s also played a better standard (and for longer) than anyone else in our squad.

I mean, how many more silly things are you going to come out with? I''m almost starting to feel embarrassed for you.

 

[Guest]

[quote user="GJP"]

Hmm

Yet the Doc has been playing professional football for over 10 years and has started something in the region of 300-400 games in that time. Not to mention that he''s been capped internationally as well.

He''s also played a better standard (and for longer) than anyone else in our squad.

I mean, how many more silly things are you going to come out with? I''m almost starting to feel embarrassed for you.

 

[/quote]But what about all those penalties he''s conceded? I say bring Spillane in, he is the better player and proven at a higher level.Oh wait... I''m doing Smugger''s job for him here!

[Rudolph Hucker 0]

And if Nelson''s late over-head kick from his assist (which was handled wide) had gone in Doc would have been ''in the frame again.''

GO DOC!!!

[Rudolph Hucker 0]

Well done again Doc!!!

[Rudolph Hucker 0]

Once again Doc was in the opposition box to score late on and this time from a three man defence.

He might not be a speed merchant but his stamina is exceptional.

[Zachariah Lovespoon 0]

one ginger pele, there''s only one ginger pele, one ginger pele

[Smudger 0]

Oh dear, oh dear... [:$]

I will give you your weekend in the sun and remember to dig this thread up when Lambert bombs him out or we pay the price for keeping him at the heart of our defence next season.

Doherty should be no more than a bit part player at club that is going to be successful at a higher level.

[Rudolph Hucker 0]

Smudger,

It really would not surprise me if Doc was not with us next season, he is out of contract and probably on good money. Lambert might not fancy him against pacier Championship defenders.

But for where we are now the guy has been great especially in the heart and soul department which is what this thread was originally about.

[GJP 79]

Well in my opinion the guy is the best defender at the club and the best defender in this league.

And I fully expect he''ll be here and in the team against next season.

 

[Smudger 0]

[quote user="RUDOLPH HUCKER"]Smudger, It really would not surprise me if Doc was not with us next season, he is out of contract and probably on good money. Lambert might not fancy him against pacier Championship defenders. But for where we are now the guy has been great especially in the heart and soul department which is what this thread was originally about.[/quote]

I agree with you Sad Old... he has done well since being dropped earlier in the season by Lambert and hats off to him for that! [Y]

I would not mind Doherty at all next season on a cut price deal but only as back up to a solid first choice centre half partnership.  However I believe that we need to bring in another centre half on promotion and would of ideally of liked to of had such a player in by now. I would then of maybe added another upon promotion.  Whitbread''s fitness worries and Spillane''s and Askou''s injury problems have not helped, but I think that we have been riding our luck in most games since the turn of the year and that better quality opposition would of found us out on many of these occasions.

So you see... credit where it is due and he must of been in the running for the man of the match award today.