Penalty - did the ref really get it right

[Camuldonum 0]

[quote user="I.S."][quote user="eddy melito"][quote]

Hasn''t anyone read my bit about the ref being MIKE DEAN? The same ref that made Frank Lampard retake the pen against West Ham WAS THE REF ON SATURDAY. Sorry but thought it was an interesting point. I should have talked about make-believe offside shouts ...would have got a bigger reaction . Or called the original poster a C***. [/quote]

or perhaps you are making something out of very little. watch the replays, its not conclusive that he was onside. its nothing unexpected to have dodgy officials at this level.

[/quote]

Yes, but the point is that this is a Premiership referee, who made Frank Lampard retake a penalty for a similar incident recently. Or are you saying that as soon as Mike Dean referees in League One he becomes dodgy?
[/quote]

 

For reffing everyone on here, girls included, could sign up for their local Referees Society course, pull on the black with the County badge, and report back on this message board.

As nearly everyone is a football expert who knows what is right and what is wrong as regards officials I am baffled that you all don''t.

Why is that do you think?[:|]

[eddy melito 0]

[quote user="I.S."][quote user="eddy melito"][quote]

Hasn''t anyone read my bit about the ref being MIKE DEAN? The same ref that made Frank Lampard retake the pen against West Ham WAS THE REF ON SATURDAY. Sorry but thought it was an interesting point. I should have talked about make-believe offside shouts ...would have got a bigger reaction . Or called the original poster a C***. [/quote]

or perhaps you are making something out of very little. watch the replays, its not conclusive that he was onside. its nothing unexpected to have dodgy officials at this level.

[/quote]

Yes, but the point is that this is a Premiership referee, who made Frank Lampard retake a penalty for a similar incident recently. Or are you saying that as soon as Mike Dean referees in League One he becomes dodgy?
[/quote]

i think having watched the manc derby tonight that he certainly refferreed it differently.

[The gut 0]

While we''re reffing - I thought so at the time, and it just gets confirmed every time I see it, Tierney should have been sent off for his challenge on Hoolahan. No way was Holt offside for the pen. Now managing - how fat and useless must Solano have got if Henderson can get signed and he can''t?

[eddy melito 0]

[quote user="The gut"]While we''re reffing - I thought so at the time, and it just gets confirmed every time I see it, Tierney should have been sent off for his challenge on Hoolahan. No way was Holt offside for the pen. Now managing - how fat and useless must Solano have got if Henderson can get signed and he can''t?[/quote]

hes certainly not fat. hes naturally lean. when nobby came to train with us we were resigned to losing lisbie (also freeing up a large chunk of wages money) so when that changed i dont think we could really have both. cant really compare him to henderson when nobby=5k a week and henderson probably=1k

[The gut 0]

[quote user="eddy melito"]

[quote user="The gut"]While we''re reffing - I thought so at the time, and it just gets confirmed every time I see it, Tierney should have been sent off for his challenge on Hoolahan. No way was Holt offside for the pen. Now managing - how fat and useless must Solano have got if Henderson can get signed and he can''t?[/quote]

hes certainly not fat. hes naturally lean. when nobby came to train with us we were resigned to losing lisbie (also freeing up a large chunk of wages money) so when that changed i dont think we could really have both. cant really compare him to henderson when nobby=5k a week and henderson probably=1k

[/quote]

Sorry eddy, reffing comments serious, scouting comment tongue in cheek. Henderson was absolutely dreadful when he was with us and I could never understand how he became a professional, and he has put on a bit of weight since. I should''ve winked so you didn''t take it so literally.

[a man called horse 0]

i have to say you are spot on will

[Graham Paddons Beard 2,429]

I am a qualified Ref Cam. God Bless I.S. for actually getting the point of the post. My father is an assessor. Thanks for the advice.

[TIL 1010 4,737]

[quote user="Camuldonum"][quote user="I.S."][quote user="eddy melito"][quote]

Hasn''t anyone read my bit about the ref being MIKE DEAN? The same ref that made Frank Lampard retake the pen against West Ham WAS THE REF ON SATURDAY. Sorry but thought it was an interesting point. I should have talked about make-believe offside shouts ...would have got a bigger reaction . Or called the original poster a C***. [/quote]

or perhaps you are making something out of very little. watch the replays, its not conclusive that he was onside. its nothing unexpected to have dodgy officials at this level.

[/quote]

Yes, but the point is that this is a Premiership referee, who made Frank Lampard retake a penalty for a similar incident recently. Or are you saying that as soon as Mike Dean referees in League One he becomes dodgy?
[/quote]

 

For reffing everyone on here, girls included, could sign up for their local Referees Society course, pull on the black with the County badge, and report back on this message board.

As nearly everyone is a football expert who knows what is right and what is wrong as regards officials I am baffled that you all don''t.

Why is that do you think?[:|]

[/quote]

Jesus,patronising,sarcastic and a touch of the Bleedin'' obvious.How we have missed you these last few days.Standby now for the thick ex-plod routine.

[First Wazzock 902]

[quote user="The Chirp"]Problem is.... Refs try to watch both the keeper on his line and the pen taker as well as the other players...

What the ref should be looking at is right across the line to make sure players dont infringe play and rely on the lino to watch the keeper.

In this case it clearly should have been retaken.

however the ref didn''t rely on his lino so was watching both the keeper and the players... make sense?

probably not...!

The atmosphere might have got to him also...
[/quote]

My idea of how to position yourself at a penalty went something like this.

Usually the linesman (assistant ref) would be positioned on the goal line, to act as goal judge.

I then would position myself virtually on the 18 yard line (edge of the penalty area) a few yards either side of the penalty taker.

By doing this I found I had a clear view of the penalty taker, the goalkeeper and if people were in front of me by the time the kick was taken they had encroached. (I used to warn them to stay out until it was taken, as a miss + encroachment = a retake).

My view of it nowadays is that, virtually all penalties are not taken correctly.

The run up to take the kick where the player stops then restarts his run ( in the hope the keeper will commit himself ) is in my eyes ungentlemanly conduct (unsporting behaviour). We were always instructed it should be a continuous run to deliver the ball, not full of trickery.

Virtually all goalkeepers throw themselves forward off their line to try to narrow the angle (slight though it maybe) to try to give themselves an (illegal) advantage.

[Beauseant 0]

[quote user="First Wazzock"]

[quote user="The Chirp"]Problem is.... Refs try to watch both the keeper on his line and the pen taker as well as the other players...

What the ref should be looking at is right across the line to make sure players dont infringe play and rely on the lino to watch the keeper.

In this case it clearly should have been retaken.

however the ref didn''t rely on his lino so was watching both the keeper and the players... make sense?

probably not...!

The atmosphere might have got to him also...
[/quote]

My idea of how to position yourself at a penalty went something like this.

Usually the linesman (assistant ref) would be positioned on the goal line, to act as goal judge.

I then would position myself virtually on the 18 yard line (edge of the penalty area) a few yards either side of the penalty taker.

By doing this I found I had a clear view of the penalty taker, the goalkeeper and if people were in front of me by the time the kick was taken they had encroached. (I used to warn them to stay out until it was taken, as a miss + encroachment = a retake).

My view of it nowadays is that, virtually all penalties are not taken correctly.

The run up to take the kick where the player stops then restarts his run ( in the hope the keeper will commit himself ) is in my eyes ungentlemanly conduct (unsporting behaviour). We were always instructed it should be a continuous run to deliver the ball, not full of trickery.

Virtually all goalkeepers throw themselves forward off their line to try to narrow the angle (slight though it maybe) to try to give themselves an (illegal) advantage.

[/quote]

 

 At one point any stutter in the run up was made illegal, and I don''t really see why that was reversed. As a penalty taker my view was that if I hit it properly and where I was aiming it didn''t really matter what the keeper did (within reason), but I get annoyed by this modern trend of keepers deliberately delaying the kick, which is blatant gamesmanship and should ALWAYS incur a yellow card, but often doesn''t.

Regarding your reminiscences Wazzy, you haven''t mentioned where you put your white stick, although I''ve heard that you used to lean it against the goalpost while a penalty was being taken........[:P]

 

[CJ 0]

When I placed original post never thought it would roll on for so long, interesting to note views on this matter, just as well it wasnt deciding point in match could have been really interesting!As referee myself I often find that the two areas of controversy even amongst officials is offside and penalties both of which have never been sorted by FIFA or the FA and of course are often turning points in matches.On penalties as indicated every ref seems to run differently, certainly the one at Colchester never watched to see if there was any infringement and his positioning made it easy for the player to run unseen into the box. As has been indicated this is because the ref does not delegate enough to his assistant and tries to do it all. As has been indicated the better refs keep an eye on the other players until kick taken then concentrate on kick which is a real skill but I have seen some very good refs at this.  Let us be honest players will not run in if they are aware being watched but at Colchester player saw ref not looking at all. As for goalies very rare they stay on line probably ninety per cent could be retaken but most refs view is one step is OK which I disagree with since gain significant advantage and against rules. I also do not like players who stop in run up to get keeper to commit and tell them will ask for retake if they do beforehand which usually stops any messing around.Still overall a great result which just shows how far we have come since start of season and the run in for promotion starts to really get going from now on, would love to see us at the top soon!

[First Wazzock 902]

[quote user="Beauseant"][quote user="First Wazzock"]

[quote user="The Chirp"]Problem is.... Refs try to watch both the keeper on his line and the pen taker as well as the other players...

What the ref should be looking at is right across the line to make sure players dont infringe play and rely on the lino to watch the keeper.

In this case it clearly should have been retaken.

however the ref didn''t rely on his lino so was watching both the keeper and the players... make sense?

probably not...!

The atmosphere might have got to him also...
[/quote]

My idea of how to position yourself at a penalty went something like this.

Usually the linesman (assistant ref) would be positioned on the goal line, to act as goal judge.

I then would position myself virtually on the 18 yard line (edge of the penalty area) a few yards either side of the penalty taker.

By doing this I found I had a clear view of the penalty taker, the goalkeeper and if people were in front of me by the time the kick was taken they had encroached. (I used to warn them to stay out until it was taken, as a miss + encroachment = a retake).

My view of it nowadays is that, virtually all penalties are not taken correctly.

The run up to take the kick where the player stops then restarts his run ( in the hope the keeper will commit himself ) is in my eyes ungentlemanly conduct (unsporting behaviour). We were always instructed it should be a continuous run to deliver the ball, not full of trickery.

Virtually all goalkeepers throw themselves forward off their line to try to narrow the angle (slight though it maybe) to try to give themselves an (illegal) advantage.

[/quote]

 

 At one point any stutter in the run up was made illegal, and I don''t really see why that was reversed. As a penalty taker my view was that if I hit it properly and where I was aiming it didn''t really matter what the keeper did (within reason), but I get annoyed by this modern trend of keepers deliberately delaying the kick, which is blatant gamesmanship and should ALWAYS incur a yellow card, but often doesn''t.

Regarding your reminiscences Wazzy, you haven''t mentioned where you put your white stick, although I''ve heard that you used to lean it against the goalpost while a penalty was being taken........[:P]

 

[/quote]

That''s a yellow card old mate, any more of your lip and you are off !!!

[Beauseant 0]

[quote user="First Wazzock"][quote user="Beauseant"][quote user="First Wazzock"]

[quote user="The Chirp"]Problem is.... Refs try to watch both the keeper on his line and the pen taker as well as the other players...

What the ref should be looking at is right across the line to make sure players dont infringe play and rely on the lino to watch the keeper.

In this case it clearly should have been retaken.

however the ref didn''t rely on his lino so was watching both the keeper and the players... make sense?

probably not...!

The atmosphere might have got to him also...
[/quote]

My idea of how to position yourself at a penalty went something like this.

Usually the linesman (assistant ref) would be positioned on the goal line, to act as goal judge.

I then would position myself virtually on the 18 yard line (edge of the penalty area) a few yards either side of the penalty taker.

By doing this I found I had a clear view of the penalty taker, the goalkeeper and if people were in front of me by the time the kick was taken they had encroached. (I used to warn them to stay out until it was taken, as a miss + encroachment = a retake).

My view of it nowadays is that, virtually all penalties are not taken correctly.

The run up to take the kick where the player stops then restarts his run ( in the hope the keeper will commit himself ) is in my eyes ungentlemanly conduct (unsporting behaviour). We were always instructed it should be a continuous run to deliver the ball, not full of trickery.

Virtually all goalkeepers throw themselves forward off their line to try to narrow the angle (slight though it maybe) to try to give themselves an (illegal) advantage.

[/quote]

 

 At one point any stutter in the run up was made illegal, and I don''t really see why that was reversed. As a penalty taker my view was that if I hit it properly and where I was aiming it didn''t really matter what the keeper did (within reason), but I get annoyed by this modern trend of keepers deliberately delaying the kick, which is blatant gamesmanship and should ALWAYS incur a yellow card, but often doesn''t.

Regarding your reminiscences Wazzy, you haven''t mentioned where you put your white stick, although I''ve heard that you used to lean it against the goalpost while a penalty was being taken........[:P]

 

[/quote]

That''s a yellow card old mate, any more of your lip and you are off !!!

[/quote]

 

What are you on about? It was their number 8 who said that, not me. Deaf as well as blind......

[First Wazzock 902]

[quote user="Beauseant"][quote user="First Wazzock"][quote user="Beauseant"][quote user="First Wazzock"]

[quote user="The Chirp"]Problem is.... Refs try to watch both the keeper on his line and the pen taker as well as the other players...

What the ref should be looking at is right across the line to make sure players dont infringe play and rely on the lino to watch the keeper.

In this case it clearly should have been retaken.

however the ref didn''t rely on his lino so was watching both the keeper and the players... make sense?

probably not...!

The atmosphere might have got to him also...
[/quote]

My idea of how to position yourself at a penalty went something like this.

Usually the linesman (assistant ref) would be positioned on the goal line, to act as goal judge.

I then would position myself virtually on the 18 yard line (edge of the penalty area) a few yards either side of the penalty taker.

By doing this I found I had a clear view of the penalty taker, the goalkeeper and if people were in front of me by the time the kick was taken they had encroached. (I used to warn them to stay out until it was taken, as a miss + encroachment = a retake).

My view of it nowadays is that, virtually all penalties are not taken correctly.

The run up to take the kick where the player stops then restarts his run ( in the hope the keeper will commit himself ) is in my eyes ungentlemanly conduct (unsporting behaviour). We were always instructed it should be a continuous run to deliver the ball, not full of trickery.

Virtually all goalkeepers throw themselves forward off their line to try to narrow the angle (slight though it maybe) to try to give themselves an (illegal) advantage.

[/quote]

 

 At one point any stutter in the run up was made illegal, and I don''t really see why that was reversed. As a penalty taker my view was that if I hit it properly and where I was aiming it didn''t really matter what the keeper did (within reason), but I get annoyed by this modern trend of keepers deliberately delaying the kick, which is blatant gamesmanship and should ALWAYS incur a yellow card, but often doesn''t.

Regarding your reminiscences Wazzy, you haven''t mentioned where you put your white stick, although I''ve heard that you used to lean it against the goalpost while a penalty was being taken........[:P]

 

[/quote]

That''s a yellow card old mate, any more of your lip and you are off !!!

[/quote]

 

What are you on about? It was their number 8 who said that, not me. Deaf as well as blind......

[/quote]

Not that old chestnut !

My personal favourite was some guy asked the ref ''Can I get sent off for thinking?''.

''Of course not'' said the ref

''Well, I think you are reffing this like a complete ****''

The ref then sent him off - had it have been me I would have collapsed with laughter.