Lambert, finances, and ambition

[thebigfeller 200]

[quote user="Fellas"]Exactly, even teams like Burnley have spent beyond their means to be honest. It is a hard ask to find an investor willing to use common sense and yet be able to afford consistent large backing. Even the shrewdest owners have got it wrong (Birmingham, M''boro?). You call it pot luck, perhaps it is, but it''s about getting it right, getting the right people in. McNally and Lambert look like and are good choices, and I think we will reap the benefits. But we have to understand we will have to replace at some point, and that''s the key, we (and most clubs do at some point to) have got it wrong over the past 4 or 5 seasons. I have a lot of trust in McNally as a judge of talent, and if we can get sensible financial backing I believe we can make it back up.[/quote]To clarify: making the right decisions certainly isn''t pot luck - but who any football club is owned by in the first place is. What control do the fans have over whether their owner is sensible, a lunatic, a bottomless pit, or someone with a big ego who gets bored and wants their money back? None at all, really: meaning there have been times in recent years when football''s felt like little more than a multi-billionaire''s pissing contest. Those times may be changing now, though; with the exception of Man City, that is.

[thebigfeller 200]

[quote user="Smudger"]I am sure that Portsmouth, like Southampton will survive but they may well struggle for a number of years.  Where is their rightful place in the pecking order anyway?  Until the dodgy Mandaric got involved they were midtable Championship for many years putting in the odd failed promotion attempt and a couple of good cup runs from time to time.It is too early to say whether their overspending was worth it but it is also too early to say that it was a massive mistake.  Like I said if they can stay in the Championship next season and build progressively from there then in 5 years time then the massive gamble they took may well have been worth it in many fans eyes.Let''s not forget that we have never won the FA Cup and perhaps crazy overspending might be the only way we could ever achieve such success?  I am sure if we were relegated a couple of seasons after winning it and could find a buyer who could keep us afloat mid-table in the Championship then we would consider the gamble worth taking?Stoke''s spending is more under control currently but how far will they go in search of further success or silverware and 10 or 15 years from now will they regret going too far or not doing quite enough?reIf we had pushed the boat out a little bit more under Chase then it may have brought Silverware and many more years playing topflight football.  We had debts at the time and Chase started withold more and more funds from our transfer kitty resulting in relegation and then the well documented Martin O''Neill scenario leading to Delia & Co''s attempts to restablish ourselves as a top flight team resulting in one season in 14 is it back in the top flight?It will always be a gamble where tough decisions need to be made and hopefully with Lambert and McNally we now have the men to make those tough decisions.  The higher that we climb or the lower that we fall, then inevitably the decisions that these two guys will have to make become tougher and tougher.It is rare finding a manager who you trust to spend your money wisely and when you have one as somebody said before make hay while the sun shines. [/quote]I disagree, at least to an extent. In my view, if Norwich City employ professional people used to doing their homework and making the right decisions, and if we maintain the vastly different attitude we''ve had as a club this season, success will largely take care of itself. It''s all about growing the club, and combining the inbuilt advantages we have (tremendous fanbase, the biggest club in an entire region and only club in a whole county, excellent commercial and off-field activities, a very positive image overall) with, at long last, a real desire to be as successful as we can be, and not make excuses. We won''t be massively successful - we certainly won''t finish 3rd in the Prem again, for example - but we should be a minimum top 6 Championship club, hopefully able to push on and re-establish ourselves in the top flight.That, for me, would be success. I''m sick of our pathetic Cup record, and desperate for a sustained run in one of them again - but real ambition is about sustainable, long term growth. Not gambling with the club''s very existence on the off-chance the FA Cup has a freak year and someone other than the really big clubs win it.

[manchesteryellow 0]

[quote user="Smudger"]Some very good points in this post TBF... [Y]We do need to start pushing the boat out to bring in each player that Lambert wants to sign now and also get Paul himself to sign an extension to his contract so that we are entitled to suitable compensation should the worst happen.  I think that we need to be pushing for a top six place in the Championship next season at the very least in order to keep everything ticking along at the club.I would still love to see us sign Lee Barnard before this transfer window closes, or if not hopefully he will stay at Southend and not sign a new contract and Lambert has tapped him up to sign for us for nothing at the end of the season.  If we were to get Barnard in plus a pacey winger and another centre back then I would feel confident that with Lambert adding to the squad throughout next season we could have a real good shout at a play-off push.I think that we have enough for promotion this season barring a big turn around in our fortunes, but I would like to see us add another couple of names to Lamberts January signings just to make sure and allow him to start building for next season already.[/quote]Careful now! As a follower of both Norwich and King''s Lynn, this sort of thing is exactly what brought about their winding up. Carl Heggs said afterwards (I paraphrase) ''If you ask for a £1,000 a week player and the board say yes, should you take the blame when the club goes bust?''As much as I agree with the sentiment, there have been too many examples lately of clubs living beyond their means and getting in to serious trouble.

[Smudger 0]

[quote user="thebigfeller"][quote user="Smudger"]I am sure that Portsmouth, like Southampton will survive but they may well struggle for a number of years.  Where is their rightful place in the pecking order anyway?  Until the dodgy Mandaric got involved they were midtable Championship for many years putting in the odd failed promotion attempt and a couple of good cup runs from time to time.It is too early to say whether their overspending was worth it but it is also too early to say that it was a massive mistake.  Like I said if they can stay in the Championship next season and build progressively from there then in 5 years time then the massive gamble they took may well have been worth it in many fans eyes.Let''s not forget that we have never won the FA Cup and perhaps crazy overspending might be the only way we could ever achieve such success?  I am sure if we were relegated a couple of seasons after winning it and could find a buyer who could keep us afloat mid-table in the Championship then we would consider the gamble worth taking?Stoke''s spending is more under control currently but how far will they go in search of further success or silverware and 10 or 15 years from now will they regret going too far or not doing quite enough?reIf we had pushed the boat out a little bit more under Chase then it may have brought Silverware and many more years playing topflight football.  We had debts at the time and Chase started withold more and more funds from our transfer kitty resulting in relegation and then the well documented Martin O''Neill scenario leading to Delia & Co''s attempts to restablish ourselves as a top flight team resulting in one season in 14 is it back in the top flight?It will always be a gamble where tough decisions need to be made and hopefully with Lambert and McNally we now have the men to make those tough decisions.  The higher that we climb or the lower that we fall, then inevitably the decisions that these two guys will have to make become tougher and tougher.It is rare finding a manager who you trust to spend your money wisely and when you have one as somebody said before make hay while the sun shines. [/quote]I disagree, at least to an extent. In my view, if Norwich City employ professional people used to doing their homework and making the right decisions, and if we maintain the vastly different attitude we''ve had as a club this season, success will largely take care of itself. It''s all about growing the club, and combining the inbuilt advantages we have (tremendous fanbase, the biggest club in an entire region and only club in a whole county, excellent commercial and off-field activities, a very positive image overall) with, at long last, a real desire to be as successful as we can be, and not make excuses. We won''t be massively successful - we certainly won''t finish 3rd in the Prem again, for example - but we should be a minimum top 6 Championship club, hopefully able to push on and re-establish ourselves in the top flight.That, for me, would be success. I''m sick of our pathetic Cup record, and desperate for a sustained run in one of them again - but real ambition is about sustainable, long term growth. Not gambling with the club''s very existence on the off-chance the FA Cup has a freak year and someone other than the really big clubs win it.[/quote]Who exactly are the REALLY BIG CLUBS though these days?Instead of a big 4 we maybe have a big 8 now.  Liverpool already have nothing other than a top 4 spot to play for this season and I don''t believe they will get that.  Football has been about getting a top 4 spot for far too long in my opinion.  It is about aiming for trophies that are realistic for your club to win.  At the end of a career a player still looks at how many medals and how many caps they have won rather than how many times their club went out during the groups stages or quarter finals of a European competition.Next years target has to be promotion from the Championship for me.  It was nice that last time we done that we got our hands on that famous trophy that so many great players got their hands on ovewr the years when the top club in England held it aloft.2 years ago who would of seen both Man City and Birmingham City as clubs who could attract top players and push for winning major honours?  I disagree with the notion that there is no possible way that Norwich City could ever finish 3rd again or even go on and win major honours.  Of course we are a long way off that now, but football is changing constantly and it is not an impossibility that a club such as Norwich could one day win major honours.  With a tremendous fan base and large catchment area we have more things in our favour than many clubs.

[thebigfeller 200]

[quote user="Smudger"]Who exactly are the REALLY BIG CLUBS though these days?Instead of a big 4 we maybe have a big 8 now.  Liverpool already have nothing other than a top 4 spot to play for this season and I don''t believe they will get that.  Football has been about getting a top 4 spot for far too long in my opinion.  It is about aiming for trophies that are realistic for your club to win.  At the end of a career a player still looks at how many medals and how many caps they have won rather than how many times their club went out during the groups stages or quarter finals of a European competition.Next years target has to be promotion from the Championship for me.  It was nice that last time we done that we got our hands on that famous trophy that so many great players got their hands on ovewr the years when the top club in England held it aloft.2 years ago who would of seen both Man City and Birmingham City as clubs who could attract top players and push for winning major honours?  I disagree with the notion that there is no possible way that Norwich City could ever finish 3rd again or even go on and win major honours.  Of course we are a long way off that now, but football is changing constantly and it is not an impossibility that a club such as Norwich could one day win major honours.  With a tremendous fan base and large catchment area we have more things in our favour than many clubs.[/quote]You and I may want old football back - but even with the financial correction now underway, and certain more traditional clubs starting to make their way back, it won''t be returning I''m afraid. A top four spot will always be prized above all else as long as the CL exists; and given the alternative is a breakway Super League, the dream of Norwich challenging and beating the really elite clubs will remain a dream, unless those clubs collapse. As things stand, I think we''re capable of one day winning the League Cup again; and of one day reaching the FA Cup Final at last, but that''s probably it.In terms of next season: again, I disagree. There is no precedent since the Premier League was formed of a club winning two straight promotions and then staying up. Watford and Man City both went up back-to-back, but were then out of their depth: hardly surprisingly really. The change was just too quick, meaning both had a smattering of League 1 players still with them in the Prem. I want Norwich to be in a position whereby we can get to the Prem and stay there; and that means a minimum of one year building and re-stablishing ourselves in the Champ, before going for it the following year.

[|BA 0]

[quote user="Rupethebear"]Let''s be fair the Championship is more of a League than the Scots Premier League.

[/quote]

Then lets ''be fair'' and not forget Europe.....The CCC aint too hot for getting to Champions League, which is all Celtic and Rangers care about.

[Tangible Fixed Assets anyone? 0]

[quote user="thebigfeller"]Until a few weeks ago, part of me stubbornly thought that Paul Lambert was essentially only doing what any good manager would with our squad. Make no mistake: this is a very good squad for this level, assembled for the specific purpose of taking us straight back up. But he''s going well beyond that now: the style and dominance we''re playing with reminds me of that incredible run during 1985/6 in which we took the division apart, and quite simply, we are the best team in the league. Before spainboy comes along, yes, Leeds are still above us: at this level, Leeds are very good as well. But they''re only still top because of the handicap Lambert started with; and he''s turned our whole season and even club around in double quick time.

I now expect to go on and win League 1 - and more than that, am now convinced we really do have the new Martin O''Neill on our hands. His body language, behaviour and comments are all eerily reminiscent of the great man - and Celtic fans, aware of the Wycombe/Norwich parallel, are already taking notice, believe me. Lambert''s so good, I don''t think there''s any real limit to how far he could take us: I''m talking being straight in top 6 contention next season, and going up again the year after. He''s very happy here, and will, I suspect, be very cautious before deciding to move to a bigger club: that''s another thing he''ll have learned from O''Neill.

But it''s when I think of Celtic that my worries begin. If I was Lambert, I''d want to stay here for as long as we can back his ambitions with funds and players - and the question is, can we? The accounts showed how precarious our position is - and although promotion should enable us to avert the worst, it won''t solve our problems at all. How much should the club continue to gamble? How far can it afford to go?

Ambition has been a watchword at Norwich City for as long as I can remember: lack of it was cited by Mike Walker as the main cause of his departure, for example. But of course, a club cannot be ambitious if the money isn''t there: how far would PL be prepared to understand this and accept certain limitations? In order to keep him in the medium and longer term, we''ll surely have to push the boat out - because not just Celtic, but many very big clubs will be taking notice of him before much longer. He''s honestly that good; and that he''s worked his way up from the bottom as a manager, had such an accomplished playing career and has Ottmar Hitzfeld to count on as a mentor as well as O''Neill only enhances his credentials still further.

Of course, I''m happy to live in the moment: yesterday was wonderful, our most important and satisfying win since going top of the league at Portman Road, I''d say. And even when he leaves, we''ll still have David McNally and Alan Bowkett here to help find the right replacement. But Lambert is something special, and could enable this club to transform itself, catapult itself back into the national spotlight and really over-achieve: something that will pose a huge test of our new, vastly more professional board. Together, Lambert, McNally and Bowkett are dragging this club towards what it should have been about all along: high expectations and a certain ruthlessness, coupled with the progressive traditions and family atmosphere we''ve always been known for. The potential we all know is there could genuinely be realised under this man: and my yearning hope is if we do go up, the lessons of this season will be heeded for good, and it''ll only be the start of what we might achieve.
[/quote]

Good post, we have a quality combination in Bowkett, McNally and Lambert.

If we can get a good price, sell one part of the land behind the Jarrold stand / River End and give the money to Lambert to sign some quality players by Championship standards.

 

[Tangible Fixed Assets anyone? 0]

[quote user="Smudger"]I agree BUTLER, I have been very, very, very impressed with what I have seen of Culverhouse in a coaching role... [Y]

[/quote]

Own up!   You have cameras located at the Colney training ground.