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thebigfeller

Lambert, finances, and ambition

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Until a few weeks ago, part of me stubbornly thought that Paul Lambert was essentially only doing what any good manager would with our squad. Make no mistake: this is a very good squad for this level, assembled for the specific purpose of taking us straight back up. But he''s going well beyond that now: the style and dominance we''re playing with reminds me of that incredible run during 1985/6 in which we took the division apart, and quite simply, we are the best team in the league. Before spainboy comes along, yes, Leeds are still above us: at this level, Leeds are very good as well. But they''re only still top because of the handicap Lambert started with; and he''s turned our whole season and even club around in double quick time.I now expect to go on and win League 1 - and more than that, am now convinced we really do have the new Martin O''Neill on our hands. His body language, behaviour and comments are all eerily reminiscent of the great man - and Celtic fans, aware of the Wycombe/Norwich parallel, are already taking notice, believe me. Lambert''s so good, I don''t think there''s any real limit to how far he could take us: I''m talking being straight in top 6 contention next season, and going up again the year after. He''s very happy here, and will, I suspect, be very cautious before deciding to move to a bigger club: that''s another thing he''ll have learned from O''Neill. But it''s when I think of Celtic that my worries begin. If I was Lambert, I''d want to stay here for as long as we can back his ambitions with funds and players - and the question is, can we? The accounts showed how precarious our position is - and although promotion should enable us to avert the worst, it won''t solve our problems at all. How much should the club continue to gamble? How far can it afford to go? Ambition has been a watchword at Norwich City for as long as I can remember: lack of it was cited by Mike Walker as the main cause of his departure, for example. But of course, a club cannot be ambitious if the money isn''t there: how far would PL be prepared to understand this and accept certain limitations? In order to keep him in the medium and longer term, we''ll surely have to push the boat out - because not just Celtic, but many very big clubs will be taking notice of him before much longer. He''s honestly that good; and that he''s worked his way up from the bottom as a manager, had such an accomplished playing career and has Ottmar Hitzfeld to count on as a mentor as well as O''Neill only enhances his credentials still further.Of course, I''m happy to live in the moment: yesterday was wonderful, our most important and satisfying win since going top of the league at Portman Road, I''d say. And even when he leaves, we''ll still have David McNally and Alan Bowkett here to help find the right replacement. But Lambert is something special, and could enable this club to transform itself, catapult itself back into the national spotlight and really over-achieve: something that will pose a huge test of our new, vastly more professional board. Together, Lambert, McNally and Bowkett are dragging this club towards what it should have been about all along: high expectations and a certain ruthlessness, coupled with the progressive traditions and family atmosphere we''ve always been known for. The potential we all know is there could genuinely be realised under this man: and my yearning hope is if we do go up, the lessons of this season will be heeded for good, and it''ll only be the start of what we might achieve.

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Some very good points in this post TBF... [Y]We do need to start pushing the boat out to bring in each player that Lambert wants to sign now and also get Paul himself to sign an extension to his contract so that we are entitled to suitable compensation should the worst happen.  I think that we need to be pushing for a top six place in the Championship next season at the very least in order to keep everything ticking along at the club.I would still love to see us sign Lee Barnard before this transfer window closes, or if not hopefully he will stay at Southend and not sign a new contract and Lambert has tapped him up to sign for us for nothing at the end of the season.  If we were to get Barnard in plus a pacey winger and another centre back then I would feel confident that with Lambert adding to the squad throughout next season we could have a real good shout at a play-off push.I think that we have enough for promotion this season barring a big turn around in our fortunes, but I would like to see us add another couple of names to Lamberts January signings just to make sure and allow him to start building for next season already.

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Smudger, if Lambert is ambitious and knows what he wants I rather suspect he will have had as much input into his contract as the club have. If he yearns to manage certain clubs, Celtic for example, then he may not sign any contract that makes such a move too difficult.

 

 

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[quote user="Smudger"]Some very good points in this post TBF... [Y]

We do need to start pushing the boat out to bring in each player that Lambert wants to sign now and also get Paul himself to sign an extension to his contract so that we are entitled to suitable compensation should the worst happen.  I think that we need to be pushing for a top six place in the Championship next season at the very least in order to keep everything ticking along at the club.

I would still love to see us sign Lee Barnard before this transfer window closes, or if not hopefully he will stay at Southend and not sign a new contract and Lambert has tapped him up to sign for us for nothing at the end of the season.  If we were to get Barnard in plus a pacey winger and another centre back then I would feel confident that with Lambert adding to the squad throughout next season we could have a real good shout at a play-off push.

I think that we have enough for promotion this season barring a big turn around in our fortunes, but I would like to see us add another couple of names to Lamberts January signings just to make sure and allow him to start building for next season already.
[/quote]

 

Pretty much agree with all of this. I don''t think many of us could have dreamed that we''d be here after the opening day, but the experience of Grant, Roeder and the nameless one should have made it absolutely clear how precious a top manager is, so logic dictates that everything possible must be done to accommodate Lambert. Nutty is quite right in saying that Lambert may well have his sights set on Celtic, but if so all the more reason for the club to protect itself. Given the financial situation we can''t afford to take chances.

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[quote user="Smudger"]Some very good points in this post TBF... [Y]

We do need to start pushing the boat out to bring in each player that Lambert wants to sign now and also get Paul himself to sign an extension to his contract so that we are entitled to suitable compensation should the worst happen.  I think that we need to be pushing for a top six place in the Championship next season at the very least in order to keep everything ticking along at the club.

I would still love to see us sign Lee Barnard before this transfer window closes, or if not hopefully he will stay at Southend and not sign a new contract and Lambert has tapped him up to sign for us for nothing at the end of the season.  If we were to get Barnard in plus a pacey winger and another centre back then I would feel confident that with Lambert adding to the squad throughout next season we could have a real good shout at a play-off push.

I think that we have enough for promotion this season barring a big turn around in our fortunes, but I would like to see us add another couple of names to Lamberts January signings just to make sure and allow him to start building for next season already.
[/quote]

Worthy was on a rolling contract my friend.[^o)]

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[quote user="Beauseant"]

[quote user="Smudger"]Some very good points in this post TBF... [Y]

We do need to start pushing the boat out to bring in each player that Lambert wants to sign now and also get Paul himself to sign an extension to his contract so that we are entitled to suitable compensation should the worst happen.  I think that we need to be pushing for a top six place in the Championship next season at the very least in order to keep everything ticking along at the club.

I would still love to see us sign Lee Barnard before this transfer window closes, or if not hopefully he will stay at Southend and not sign a new contract and Lambert has tapped him up to sign for us for nothing at the end of the season.  If we were to get Barnard in plus a pacey winger and another centre back then I would feel confident that with Lambert adding to the squad throughout next season we could have a real good shout at a play-off push.

I think that we have enough for promotion this season barring a big turn around in our fortunes, but I would like to see us add another couple of names to Lamberts January signings just to make sure and allow him to start building for next season already.
[/quote]

 

Pretty much agree with all of this. I don''t think many of us could have dreamed that we''d be here after the opening day, but the experience of Grant, Roeder and the nameless one should have made it absolutely clear how precious a top manager is, so logic dictates that everything possible must be done to accommodate Lambert. Nutty is quite right in saying that Lambert may well have his sights set on Celtic, but if so all the more reason for the club to protect itself. Given the financial situation we can''t afford to take chances.

[/quote]

Ambition is a funny thing. IF we can give PL what he wants and we CAN move back up the leagues, he will stay,now thats still a big IF.

We are doing well in the THIRD division. We did that some 50 years ago. It will take a continued revolution both on and off the pitch to keep the ball rolling.

That encompasses board ,manager, players and supporters.

Can all those elements keep heading in the same uninterupted diection?

My worry is that this success goes, along with the sherry, to a few peoples heads and we blow our chance yet again.

Anyone got a good green and yellow gag?

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"get Paul himself to sign an extension to his contract so that we are entitled to compensation should the worst happen"

Smudger - love the irony of this bearing in mind who we just played!

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Celtic really is a worry.None of us can grudge him if he goes to the likes of Man Utd in fact id be proud if he left for somoene like that and succeeded. A bit the same way as I kinda half follow Aston Villa.However I guess i have a snobish view of Scottish football and would be gutted if Lambo left for Celtic. Unfortunatly its probably his dream job :(

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Let''s be fair the Championship is more of a League than the Scots Premier League.

His previous experience was with 2 very well run but small outfits and that''s why he is loving it here.

I think he will be here for a long while yet and would only leave for a big Premier League Club, not a Burnley, Bolton or Blackburn!!

We can give him everything at Carrow Road except a big transfer kitty. He''s already prooving a shrewd guy in the transfer market and is giving our ''youth'' a chance to shine so let''s enjoy what we''ve got!

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[quote user="The Butler"]

Ambition is a funny thing. IF we can give PL what he wants and we CAN move back up the leagues, he will stay,now thats still a big IF.

We are doing well in the THIRD division. We did that some 50 years ago. It will take a continued revolution both on and off the pitch to keep the ball rolling.

That encompasses board ,manager, players and supporters.

Can all those elements keep heading in the same uninterupted diection?

My worry is that this success goes, along with the sherry, to a few peoples heads and we blow our chance yet again.

Anyone got a good green and yellow gag?

[/quote]This is my worry too - and you''re right: really changing this club involves all of us. I don''t think there''s any danger of the Three Musketeers letting success go to their heads; I''m a lot less confident about Tweedledum and Tweedledee, who on all available evidence, probably don''t understand the reasons for our dramatic turnaround anyway. They probably just think we''ve got lucky. But beyond that, long term change needs to involve the fans too, as you say. Do it properly, and never again would we cheer the players off after Fulham or Charlton-style capitulations; which in turn would help ensure that such capitulations never darken this club''s door again. It''s all part of the same process, the same cycle.

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[quote user="nutty nigel"]

Smudger, if Lambert is ambitious and knows what he wants I rather suspect he will have had as much input into his contract as the club have. If he yearns to manage certain clubs, Celtic for example, then he may not sign any contract that makes such a move too difficult.

 

 

[/quote]Are you suggesting that Celtic would not have the money to buy Lambert out of a deal longer than a year (max) with ourselves if they really believed that he was their chosen man Nutty?Surely Lambert would realise that the kind of clubs he would liked to be linked to a year from now should have suitable finance to buy him out of a slightly longer contract than he is currently on with Norwich City and that by signing such a contract he would be acting in the best interests of the club and himself?If we could get Lambert to sign a two year deal with us now lets say and if next season went badly and he wished to move to another club then at least we would be able to get some compensation out of the deal.  If a club came in for Lambert during this summer or next summer prior to Lambert signing a new deal then we could run the risk of him walking for nothing if he wished to manage another club.All I am saying is that both managers and players who you value as critical to the clubs immediate future should be offered new contracts at least 6 months or more in advance of their current contracts expiring.Surely that is just common sense?

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[quote user="Nexus_Canary"]Celtic really is a worry.None of us can grudge him if he goes to the likes of Man Utd in fact id be proud if he left for somoene like that and succeeded. A bit the same way as I kinda half follow Aston Villa.However I guess i have a snobish view of Scottish football and would be gutted if Lambo left for Celtic. Unfortunatly its probably his dream job :([/quote]And there''s a bitter irony here: two, in fact. Mowbray''s failing at Celtic - and what is he but an Ipswich hero? And who''s his assistant? Peter Grant. In other words, completely unwittingly, an Ipswich man and a disastrous ex-Norwich manager could screw us over again! Every week, I check the Celtic score hoping they turn it around; because if they don''t, we''ll have a problem, and it''s one NCFC need to plan and be prepared for.Is Celtic his dream job? Maybe - but as things stand, they have little money, no prospect of doing anything in the CL (Scotland will shortly lose its automatic group place, and the SPL runners-up face an impossibly difficult final qualifier), and winning the SPL is completely Pyrrhic. MON joined them when they were spending big money, giving him the chance to revive a true sleeping giant and beat sides like Ajax, Juventus, Liverpool and Barcelona - but this is a very different time, in which they''re incredibly limited in the quality they can bring in. Owen Coyle turned them down for, I assume, these reasons - and Lambert may have higher ambitions than Celtic, and a belief he can achieve them via a different route. We''ll just have to hope so, and throw the kitchen sink at keeping him here.

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[quote user="Smudger"]Are you suggesting that Celtic would not have the money to buy Lambert out of a deal longer than a year (max) with ourselves if they really believed that he was their chosen man Nutty?Surely Lambert would realise that the kind of clubs he would liked to be linked to a year from now should have suitable finance to buy him out of a slightly longer contract than he is currently on with Norwich City and that by signing such a contract he would be acting in the best interests of the club and himself?If we could get Lambert to sign a two year deal with us now lets say and if next season went badly and he wished to move to another club then at least we would be able to get some compensation out of the deal.  If a club came in for Lambert during this summer or next summer prior to Lambert signing a new deal then we could run the risk of him walking for nothing if he wished to manage another club.All I am saying is that both managers and players who you value as critical to the clubs immediate future should be offered new contracts at least 6 months or more in advance of their current contracts expiring.Surely that is just common sense?[/quote]For the record, Celtic baulked at the compensation Burnley would''ve wanted for Coyle, then played silly buggers for weeks over the £2m West Brom wanted for Mowbray. Their board are notoriously cautious, and such is the atrocious state of football finances in Scotland, tend to try and get by through just doing enough: spending little on the team, and hoping good management and Rangers'' dire off-field state will do the rest. It may also mean they give Mowbray as long as they possibly can; it certainly means that prohibitive compensation demands could see them off, unless their board changes in the meantime under pressure from their fans.Lambert''s on a one year rolling contract. For a club with £23m debt and playing in League 1, that''s eminently sensible. O''Neill was also on a rolling contract at Celtic: what it does is ensure a club or its manager are always entitled to one year''s compensation, no matter when they part company. Rolling contracts are becoming more and more common in football, and I have no issue with it applying here: what matters to me is we back him in the transfer market as much as is humanly possible, and of course, give him a substantial pay rise too.

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[quote user="thebigfeller"][quote user="Nexus_Canary"]Celtic really is a worry.None of us can grudge him if he goes to the likes of Man Utd in fact id be proud if he left for somoene like that and succeeded. A bit the same way as I kinda half follow Aston Villa.However I guess i have a snobish view of Scottish football and would be gutted if Lambo left for Celtic. Unfortunatly its probably his dream job :([/quote]And there''s a bitter irony here: two, in fact. Mowbray''s failing at Celtic - and what is he but an Ipswich hero? And who''s his assistant? Peter Grant. In other words, completely unwittingly, an Ipswich man and a disastrous ex-Norwich manager could screw us over again! Every week, I check the Celtic score hoping they turn it around; because if they don''t, we''ll have a problem, and it''s one NCFC need to plan and be prepared for.Is Celtic his dream job? Maybe - but as things stand, they have little money, no prospect of doing anything in the CL (Scotland will shortly lose its automatic group place, and the SPL runners-up face an impossibly difficult final qualifier), and winning the SPL is completely Pyrrhic. MON joined them when they were spending big money, giving him the chance to revive a true sleeping giant and beat sides like Ajax, Juventus, Liverpool and Barcelona - but this is a very different time, in which they''re incredibly limited in the quality they can bring in. Owen Coyle turned them down for, I assume, these reasons - and Lambert may have higher ambitions than Celtic, and a belief he can achieve them via a different route. We''ll just have to hope so, and throw the kitchen sink at keeping him here.[/quote]

Good post Bigfeller !

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No, I''m not suggesting anything like that Smudger. What I''m suggesting is that Lambert may not want to sign another contract. He''s committed to one he signed in the summer and has made it plain he is happy right now to honour it. We don''t know it''s details do we? There could be release clauses for certain clubs for all we know. That was all I was suggesting. If a club which Lambert wants to manage more than us comes calling we will lose him anyway. I don''t think we have to worry about that for a while though, Lambert has plenty to prove  before those big clubs come calling. Martin O''Neill didn''t even go straight to a big club did he? In fact after he fell out with Big Bob he had to make do with a similar club to us for quite a few years until the really big clubs came calling. I was under the impression Lambert was on a years rolling contract which is a pretty good deal. That probably suits both parties.

 

Martin O''Neill is the only manager I remember who we lost to a similar sized club. Saunders and Bond went to Man City and Walker went to Everton. I think it would take a club of that size to tempt Lambert away unless we stuff up like Big Bob did with O''Neill. I agree with thebigfella about Celtic right now. It''s probably not the best time to go there. The fans have unrealistic expectations. Probably Celtic would just be a job for sentimental reasons rather than ambitious ones and I doubt that''s Paul Lambert.

 

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There isnt a HUGE amount of clubs bigger than NCFC though is there ?

Two in scotland, and maybe 6 in the prem.

and maybe 3 in the championship.

We have potential to be a decent prem club, though not champions league material.

So he is already in a "big" club if you like.

Its going to have to be something decent for him to want to leave, and there is a hell of a lot of decent managers around.

PL is one of maybe 15 very good ones.

Combine that with the amount of clubs bigger than us, and we dont look so bad.

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[quote user="the1englishman"]There isnt a HUGE amount of clubs bigger than NCFC though is there ?

Two in scotland, and maybe 6 in the prem.

and maybe 3 in the championship.

We have potential to be a decent prem club, though not champions league material.

So he is already in a "big" club if you like.

Its going to have to be something decent for him to want to leave, and there is a hell of a lot of decent managers around.

PL is one of maybe 15 very good ones.

Combine that with the amount of clubs bigger than us, and we dont look so bad.[/quote]Personally, I make Norwich something like the 25th biggest club in England. There''s the SKY Four, followed in no particular order by Man City, Tottenham, Villa and Everton, and two clubs outside the Prem - Newcastle and Leeds. Then you have Wolves, Sunderland, Birmingham, Sheffield Wednesday, West Ham, Derby and Nottingham Forest; then maybe Sheffield United and West Brom. Norwich are in a group alongside clubs like Blackburn, Leicester, Bolton, and Middlesbrough, bigger than clubs like Southampton or Ipswich.Of those, he obviously isn''t going to jump straight from Norwich into a Big Four/Five job - and if he took us all the way to the Prem and kept us there, Everton, Newcastle or just conceivably Villa would be the only feasible really big jobs he could get. Outside that, I do think he''d leave us for Sunderland, probably Wolves, and takeover and finance permitting, West Ham - but that''s it. And you do have a point in any case: it wasn''t so long ago that there wasn''t a cigarette paper between us and West Ham, and there''s so little to choose between so many clubs in terms of size that there''s nothing to stop us establishing ourselves in the top fifteen or so if we show the ambition and ruthlessness on and off the park to match our attendances, which are amazing, and give us tremendous potential.

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I agree; a bottom 6 Prem job is unlikely to be tempting to PL. Eradicate the Championship clubs too because PL is likely to be one of those anyway in just 4 months time. That leaves 14 Prem teams + Celtic - and maybe one or two European clubs perhaps? No so bad then is it?

Let''s hope the NCFC ''adulation'' (that PL has already recognised) really does mean something to this very talented manager!

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[quote user="thebigfeller"][quote user="the1englishman"]There isnt a HUGE amount of clubs bigger than NCFC though is there ?

Two in scotland, and maybe 6 in the prem.

and maybe 3 in the championship.

We have potential to be a decent prem club, though not champions league material.

So he is already in a "big" club if you like.

Its going to have to be something decent for him to want to leave, and there is a hell of a lot of decent managers around.

PL is one of maybe 15 very good ones.

Combine that with the amount of clubs bigger than us, and we dont look so bad.[/quote]Personally, I make Norwich something like the 25th biggest club in England. There''s the SKY Four, followed in no particular order by Man City, Tottenham, Villa and Everton, and two clubs outside the Prem - Newcastle and Leeds. Then you have Wolves, Sunderland, Birmingham, Sheffield Wednesday, West Ham, Derby and Nottingham Forest; then maybe Sheffield United and West Brom. Norwich are in a group alongside clubs like Blackburn, Leicester, Bolton, and Middlesbrough, bigger than clubs like Southampton or Ipswich.Of those, he obviously isn''t going to jump straight from Norwich into a Big Four/Five job - and if he took us all the way to the Prem and kept us there, Everton, Newcastle or just conceivably Villa would be the only feasible really big jobs he could get. Outside that, I do think he''d leave us for Sunderland, probably Wolves, and takeover and finance permitting, West Ham - but that''s it. And you do have a point in any case: it wasn''t so long ago that there wasn''t a cigarette paper between us and West Ham, and there''s so little to choose between so many clubs in terms of size that there''s nothing to stop us establishing ourselves in the top fifteen or so if we show the ambition and ruthlessness on and off the park to match our attendances, which are amazing, and give us tremendous potential.[/quote]Why do you class the two Sheffield clubs, West Brom and Derby as bigger than us, with Bolton and Middlesborough a similar size, but Ipswich and Southampton smaller?I think that there is a little inconsistency there whther you are drawing those conclusions on number of fans, history or where certain teams currently are in the league.

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Top post Shaun, where have you been!!

I have to admit I didn''t expect much at first, despite being present at a NCISA forum where Lambert turned up and spoke very well about his managerial life so far and what he wanted to achieve.

Is he as good as Martin O''Neill was at the same stage at NCFC? I will readily admit I worshipped that man and it took me years to get over his departure (some would tell you I have never got over it!) but I would have to say yes, the comparisons are eerie alright. Will he go on to achieve what Martin has? Well only time will tell and do you know what it would be our ticket (back) to the big time and for old fans like me (and many other posters on here) it would signify REAL ambition and real determination if the board of our club managed to hold onto him. I wonder if it will be him however, rather than the board, who will decide his future in the medium/long term. I am convinced McNally wanted this man and will do all he can to persuade him to stay. It''s comforting for some of us shall we say, that the three directors who presided over the debacle of hiring Gunn have kept in the background of late.

Of course a lot will depend on how far he thinks he can take us and indeed, how far he wants to go with us. Will anyone come along to tempt him away? Not this season that''s for sure, but the next, or the next?

I completely emphasise with your final paragraph. Yes, he''s something special alright and finally yesterday walking away from Col U the parallel with Mr O''Neill really sunk in. Times have been hard recently and many mistakes have been made, several have cost us dear not only in league position, but in terms of suffering for fans and players alike. Much finance has been wasted on paying off failed managers and now, we have got this one. WE MUST treasure him and keep him here.

Highest scorers in all English leagues, with a real team spirit building we just get better. WE just can''t throw this away. Can we.

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[quote user="nutty nigel"]
No, I''m not suggesting anything like that Smudger. What I''m suggesting is that Lambert may not want to sign another contract. He''s committed to one he signed in the summer and has made it plain he is happy right now to honour it. We don''t know it''s details do we? There could be release clauses for certain clubs for all we know. That was all I was suggesting. If a club which Lambert wants to manage more than us comes calling we will lose him anyway. I don''t think we have to worry about that for a while though, Lambert has plenty to prove  before those big clubs come calling. Martin O''Neill didn''t even go straight to a big club did he? In fact after he fell out with Big Bob he had to make do with a similar club to us for quite a few years until the really big clubs came calling. I was under the impression Lambert was on a years rolling contract which is a pretty good deal. That probably suits both parties.

 

Martin O''Neill is the only manager I remember who we lost to a similar sized club. Saunders and Bond went to Man City and Walker went to Everton. I think it would take a club of that size to tempt Lambert away unless we stuff up like Big Bob did with O''Neill. I agree with thebigfella about Celtic right now. It''s probably not the best time to go there. The fans have unrealistic expectations. Probably Celtic would just be a job for sentimental reasons rather than ambitious ones and I doubt that''s Paul Lambert.

 
[/quote]So if we are promoted or not come the end of the season you would be happy to see Lambert walk for nothing as long as it was to a bigger club because our board of directors had not sat down with him to offer him a new contract would you?Of course Lambert signing a new contract does not necessarily mean that he would stay with us any longer, but it at least puts a value on the clubs current biggest asset.

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Was listening to five live today and during the commentary of the Bolton game they were talking about Coyle having been tipped to manage Celtic at some point.It was in the context of Bolton being a bit of a sideways step in regards to league position althought it was well accepted that he had stronger ties to Bolton.However - one of the summerisers was Scottish and he noted that any manager worth his weight in Gold wants to manage in the Premiership. He then went on to list the reasons and also outlined that you really only go to manage Celtic or perhaps Rangers to do two things - you are either a young manager looking to get really good experience, or at least a manager still towards the begining of his managerial career - or you go there because you have something to prove.If you look at it its actually quite true. Strachen went there to get some respectibility back after managing lower end Premiership teams and wanting to prove he had the credentials to manage higher - however for him it hasn''t exactly worked out and he is now at Middlesborough doing poorly.You look at O''Neill and whilst he was well respected in the game he still hadn''t really experienced managing a team of the size of Celtic. He was a success and was chose to be the person to take Villa on to the next level which he has and is continuing to do.The Premiership is a much better all-round league. Its much more competetive and much more difficult than the Scottish league where the reality is that you have two teams vying for the top position, two or three fighting over Europe and the rest fighting to stay up. All bar the top five have budgets similar to a league 1 club.If Lambert can get us up and then into the Premiership he would be in the best possible position, if it went sour then like Strachen and to a degree O''Neill he could always make the step on to Celtic as his success in the English Leagues would probably be enough for them to get him in when you couple it with his Celtic ties.I think he knows this. And right now he needs to be at a club for a good couple of years to prove that he can get results consistantly and that he has the tactical nouse to out-do managers at a higher level. No dissrespect to this league but some of the managers are distinctly league one in their approach to football.

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[quote user="Smudger"]
So if we are promoted or not come the end of the season you would be happy to see Lambert walk for nothing as long as it was to a bigger club because our board of directors had not sat down with him to offer him a new contract would you?

Of course Lambert signing a new contract does not necessarily mean that he would stay with us any longer, but it at least puts a value on the clubs current biggest asset.
[/quote]

No, that''s not what I said Smudger. Where did you see that in my post?

How is Lambert going to walk away for nothing if he''s on a one year rolling contract anyway?

Here''s something to think about. If in the future a club came in for him and it was a job Lambert really wanted then he would go. He would go whatever contract he was on and however much fuss our club kicked up. At the end of the day money doesn''t buy loyalty Smudger. There is more money going into footballers and managers pockets than ever before but if anything there''s less loyalty. So the prudent[W] thing to do would be to have a Plan B for if it happened. Have a shortlist or even a specific target for a replacement. And to keep evaluating it so that if the worst happens we just move in and get the new man like we did with Lambert himself.

 

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There seems to be plenty of Scotland or Celtic related managers working in the top 2 divisions, so why would they (Celtic) be focussed on our gem? 

If there is a threat of PL leaving, it will not be to Celtic, it will be to some other club that may be a stepping stone to Glasgow. Come on, get real, people! Sure he may be lured away, but it won''t be by Celtic. At least not yet.  

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I hope that Mr & Mrs Wynn-Jones have read this excellent thread - and absorbed it.

And then picked up the phone, called Peter Cullum and said ''Let''s see if we can work some thing out - there''s a win-win situation for us all in here somewhere''.

What other realistic solution to the financial aspect is there?

OTBC

 

 

  

 

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[quote user="nutty nigel"]

No, that''s not what I said Smudger. Where did you see that in my post?

How is Lambert going to walk away for nothing if he''s on a one year rolling contract anyway?

Here''s something to think about. If in the future a club came in for him and it was a job Lambert really wanted then he would go. He would go whatever contract he was on and however much fuss our club kicked up. At the end of the day money doesn''t buy loyalty Smudger. There is more money going into footballers and managers pockets than ever before but if anything there''s less loyalty. So the prudent[W] thing to do would be to have a Plan B for if it happened. Have a shortlist or even a specific target for a replacement. And to keep evaluating it so that if the worst happens we just move in and get the new man like we did with Lambert himself.

 

[/quote]Ah nutty - a man after my own heart! That is exactly what I''d advise McNally to do: always have a shortlist in his mind for if and when Lambert leaves, so we''re prepared for all eventualities. And for the whole club not to take the typical Norwich, fatalistic point of view of "it''s Celtic - how can we stand in his way?", but throwing everything into growing and building us, so we give him every reason possible to stay. Because we''re not a small club: actually, we''re a big club, and big clubs need to behave in a certain way.

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[quote user="BlyBlyBabes"]

I hope that Mr & Mrs Wynn-Jones have read this excellent thread - and absorbed it.

And then picked up the phone, called Peter Cullum and said ''Let''s see if we can work some thing out - there''s a win-win situation for us all in here somewhere''.

What other realistic solution to the financial aspect is there?

OTBC

 

 

  

 

[/quote]I don''t know about Cullum, Bly: I don''t think his proposals were serious. But I certainly wouldn''t be ruling out any options: what we need is investment, and the better we do on the pitch, the more attractive we become .

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[quote user="Smudger"]Why do you class the two Sheffield clubs, West Brom and Derby as bigger than us, with Bolton and Middlesborough a similar size, but Ipswich and Southampton smaller?I think that there is a little inconsistency there whther you are drawing those conclusions on number of fans, history or where certain teams currently are in the league.[/quote]There''s bound to be inconsistencies whenever assessing something like this: it''s impossible to find any hard and fast rule. In our case, what we gain with our fanbase, we lose with our lack of achievements, money and the way we''ve portrayed ourselves and been perceived within football for far too long. Not enough other observers within the game would consider us as a big club, largely because of how we''ve behaved and often patronised ourselves. It pisses me off enormously that Ipswich - who we''re unquestionably bigger than: look at our crowds, our stadium, that Norwich is the most important city in the east of England and Ipswich just a town - have achieved much more than us. Not just an FA Cup, UEFA Cup, and league title only a quarter of a century after joining the league, but many sustained title challenges, many European runs, and more recently, many more promotion challenges. Ipswich are an historically over-achieving club; Norwich are an historically under-achieving one: that we''ve really only been consistently stronger than them for one decade (1985-1995) is pathetic, frankly.The two Sheffield clubs and Bolton have much more of an illustrious history than us: Wednesday especially are a real sleeping giant. Derby have won two league titles and an FA Cup, and have a very good fanbase like ourselves. West Brom have won the title once, the FA Cup five times; Norwich haven''t even reached a single FA Cup Final. Middlesbrough are a complicated one, but their wealthy owner, excellent stadium and recent history of being in the top flight for a considerable period just puts them ahead of us, but only just. But in truth, there''s very little to choose between so many of us: and with the advantages we have, we should be looking to grow and become an established Premier League club instead of shrugging our shoulders about how unfair it all is.One other thing Smudge. As nutty has said, Lambert''s on a rolling contract: this means he cannot leave for nothing. We''ll always be entitled to one year''s compo; he''ll always be entitled to a one year pay-off. That''s how rolling contracts work: they never run out.

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I have to say this.Paul Lambert came to us from Colchester because we are a bigger club than them.Same as Ashton, Sutton, Bruce, Eadie, Bellamy etc all went to bigger clubs, so will Lambert at some point. I hate it, but it''s fact. I''m no doom-monger, just a realist.All I ask the board to do is "make hay while the sun shines."Prediction: I echo the Man Utd prediction earlier in this thread. Failing that, he''ll be back in Glasgow.Unless Bill Gates buys us, we are too small for Lambo-Genie.

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