- Bryan Gunn, no regrets.

[Snoots 0]

[quote user="Fernando Derveld"][quote user="CambridgeCanary"]

I too have lost a lot of respect for the man today.   He failed.  There can be no arguments about that.   A man with self knowledge and realism would conlcude that there were things which if done differently might have led to a better outcome.   T o assert that there are no regrets and effectively that everything was done right is at worst arrogance and at best delusional.   Mistakes were made.   Even at half time against Colchester there was an opportunity to sort things out as we did at Leeds many years ago - 5-0 at half time and 5-1 at full time but no, apparently there are no regrets and nothing was done which capable of being done differently!!!

Perhaps he should be asked what the preparations for Colchester were as I have been told, by someone in a position to know, that they were shambolic!!

[/quote]

Great post that eloquently sums up most supporters'' view on this latest outburst, I''d say.

The only mitigation I''d like to suggest is that when players lose respect for a manager - and that can happen for any number of reasons, personal or otherwise - these days they simply stop playing for him.
[/quote]

 

Far from an "outburst". As for preparations, what has been written is merely hearsay and therefore of no relevance in judgement of Gunn. Despite, the allegations of lack of preparation, no one has come forward to dispute my claim that Gunn''s hastily assembled squad had the best pre-season in years. The 7-1 defeat was of course devastating and I think our players and us fans were guilty of complacency. After all we hadn''t been in the 3rd division for 50 years and "our visit would only be temporary and we are a big club and we''re only playing l''il ole Colchester" and by contrast of course the Colchester players were really pumped up by all that arrogance and, yes, Gunn had elected to play a completely crap goalkeeper (that is something I will never understand) and like many teams before us and many teams in the future we took a one-off hammering. Indeed, Gunn''s match preparations for the Yeovil match only days later were so bad and inept that we thrashed them 4 to zero on their own ground, a team who only a few months later we leaked 3 goals against and only managed a draw. Truth is you either fall into the anti Gunn camp or you don''t and either way no one is going to change their opinion but truth be told he really doesn''t deserve the acrimony and abuse heaped upon him on here. And, that really is the last time I rush to defend Gunn, there''s no point in trying to resist the herd mentality on here and the unpleasantness in response instead of constructive debate is just boring

[GJP 79]

Pre-season form counts for nothing.

If you lose 7-1 at home on the opening day of the season your preparation hasn''t been right.

Things weren''t great under Roeder but we weren''t a lost cause. Not until Gunn took the job.

[Scottlarock 3]

[quote user="Beauseant"]

I''m not sure which I find most depressing about this thread, Gunn''s unbelievable arrogance and lack of awareness or Bob Franklin''s total inability to see reason. I have images of him flagellating himself like the monk in the Da Vinci Code while moaning about his undying devotion to the great man. It''s almost pathological, I fear.

[/quote]Yup, both their social antennae are so out of wavelength compared to the fans but freakishly similar to each others that it could open the door to allegations that they may be linked in some way.Don''t worry though - I''m sure he''ll soon answer my question about whether Gunn should have expressed regret - YES or NO Bob?

[morty 0]

[quote user="Bob Franklin"][quote user="Fernando Derveld"][quote user="CambridgeCanary"]

I too have lost a lot of respect for the man today.   He failed.  There can be no arguments about that.   A man with self knowledge and realism would conlcude that there were things which if done differently might have led to a better outcome.   T o assert that there are no regrets and effectively that everything was done right is at worst arrogance and at best delusional.   Mistakes were made.   Even at half time against Colchester there was an opportunity to sort things out as we did at Leeds many years ago - 5-0 at half time and 5-1 at full time but no, apparently there are no regrets and nothing was done which capable of being done differently!!!

Perhaps he should be asked what the preparations for Colchester were as I have been told, by someone in a position to know, that they were shambolic!!

[/quote]Great post that eloquently sums up most supporters'' view on this latest outburst, I''d say.The only mitigation I''d like to suggest is that when players lose respect for a manager - and that can happen for any number of reasons, personal or otherwise - these days they simply stop playing for him.[/quote]

 

Far from an "outburst". As for preparations, what has been written is merely hearsay and therefore of no relevance in judgement of Gunn. Despite, the allegations of lack of preparation, no one has come forward to dispute my claim that Gunn''s hastily assembled squad had the best pre-season in years. The 7-1 defeat was of course devastating and I think our players and us fans were guilty of complacency. After all we hadn''t been in the 3rd division for 50 years and "our visit would only be temporary and we are a big club and we''re only playing l''il ole Colchester" and by contrast of course the Colchester players were really pumped up by all that arrogance and, yes, Gunn had elected to play a completely crap goalkeeper (that is something I will never understand) and like many teams before us and many teams in the future we took a one-off hammering. Indeed, Gunn''s match preparations for the Yeovil match only days later were so bad and inept that we thrashed them 4 to zero on their own ground, a team who only a few months later we leaked 3 goals against and only managed a draw. Truth is you either fall into the anti Gunn camp or you don''t and either way no one is going to change their opinion but truth be told he really doesn''t deserve the acrimony and abuse heaped upon him on here. And, that really is the last time I rush to defend Gunn, there''s no point in trying to resist the herd mentality on here and the unpleasantness in response instead of constructive debate is just boring

[/quote]Your inability not to see facts is boring.Here are some :-He had enough games to keep us up.There was enough quality in the team (only just) and also in youth players to keep us up.He got us relegated, he was the manager in charge at the time.The board at the time were wrong to appoint him after relegation, it was a decision based on money and not on Bryan''s managerial competence.Saying he has no regrets is arrogant, he should at least regret us getting relegated.I could go on with several other facts but I doubt that you will even acknowledge the ones I have stated here.[:)]

[morty 0]

Oh and I have spotted my own double negative, before the grammar police strike!

[Stevo 0]

I could (perhaps) understand Bryan Gunn''s comments today IF he was still involved in football management and trying to maintain his reputation and standing within the game. However, he has moved on to a new venture which perhaps suits his talents best - corporate hospitality and client schmoozing - so why maintain that he was faultless and blameless during his tenure?

He gives no reasons or mitigation for the fact that we were relegated during his tenure and capitulated on the opening day of the season. That to me is the crux of the problem. He lacked the understanding and experience to recognise what was fundamentally wrong at the club when he took over (and what to do to put it right) and more importantly he was and evidently still is unable to see that the approach he took whilst ''managing'' the club was flawed.

I feely admit that I couldn''t manage a football club. It does Bryan Gunn no credit whatsoever that he can''t admit to making mistakes or being unsuitable for the role when his track record strongly suggests otherwise.

"no regrets" Bryan?? That suggests once again how deluded and naive you were / are about the role you played. 

[morty 0]

No, I didn''t think you would have an answer.

[canarytim 0]

Good god, so he would still get us relegated if he had his time all over again.....priceless.

The ego of some people is astounding .

We all make mistakes, take Delia & Michaels catastophic management appointments do they learn from it, yes and let Mcnally & Lambert run the club.

Come on Bryan you were a great keeper but admit it as a manager you were worse than Mike Bassett !

[morty 0]

You didn''t want to post your views on the thread directly below this one on the exact same subject then?

[Scottlarock 3]

[quote user="Bob Franklin"][quote user="Fernando Derveld"][quote user="CambridgeCanary"]

I too have lost a lot of respect for the man today.   He failed.  There can be no arguments about that.   A man with self knowledge and realism would conlcude that there were things which if done differently might have led to a better outcome.   T o assert that there are no regrets and effectively that everything was done right is at worst arrogance and at best delusional.   Mistakes were made.   Even at half time against Colchester there was an opportunity to sort things out as we did at Leeds many years ago - 5-0 at half time and 5-1 at full time but no, apparently there are no regrets and nothing was done which capable of being done differently!!!

Perhaps he should be asked what the preparations for Colchester were as I have been told, by someone in a position to know, that they were shambolic!!

[/quote]Great post that eloquently sums up most supporters'' view on this latest outburst, I''d say.The only mitigation I''d like to suggest is that when players lose respect for a manager - and that can happen for any number of reasons, personal or otherwise - these days they simply stop playing for him.[/quote]

 

Far from an "outburst". As for preparations, what has been written is merely hearsay and therefore of no relevance in judgement of Gunn. Despite, the allegations of lack of preparation, no one has come forward to dispute my claim that Gunn''s hastily assembled squad had the best pre-season in years. The 7-1 defeat was of course devastating and I think our players and us fans were guilty of complacency. After all we hadn''t been in the 3rd division for 50 years and "our visit would only be temporary and we are a big club and we''re only playing l''il ole Colchester" and by contrast of course the Colchester players were really pumped up by all that arrogance and, yes, Gunn had elected to play a completely crap goalkeeper (that is something I will never understand) and like many teams before us and many teams in the future we took a one-off hammering. Indeed, Gunn''s match preparations for the Yeovil match only days later were so bad and inept that we thrashed them 4 to zero on their own ground, a team who only a few months later we leaked 3 goals against and only managed a draw. Truth is you either fall into the anti Gunn camp or you don''t and either way no one is going to change their opinion but truth be told he really doesn''t deserve the acrimony and abuse heaped upon him on here. And, that really is the last time I rush to defend Gunn, there''s no point in trying to resist the herd mentality on here and the unpleasantness in response instead of constructive debate is just boring

[/quote]That honestly would be brilliant.   Problem is Bobby, you never enter constructive debate and any negative comments you get are due to the frustration you cause - you ignore good points and hammer away at us with the same old ''facts and opinion'' which never stands up (and flies in the face of the majority).  Don''t feel sorry for yourself mate and don''t run away. This thread was about Gunns article today and nothing else.Move on after you answer todays topical question - Should Bryan Gunn have expressed some form of regret? (and not said that he wouldn''t have changed a thing) - have some respect for yourself and us and answer the question.

[Norma Stick 0]

[quote user="morty"]You didn''t want to post your views on the thread directly below this one on the exact same subject then?
[/quote]

Forum Police Alert!!!

[norfolkchance1 0]

I''m afraid I have no regrets either, the right decision was taken by a decisive Chief Ex and NCFC look a lot better with PL in the driving seat.

[kick it off 1,949]

So he doesn''t regret sending Arturo Lupoli off despite him having scored something like 5 in 7 starts or 7 in 11 - something of that order.... and No regrets about replacing him by signing Chris ''f**king sh*t'' Killen? How about Theoklitis? How about the 2 central midfield sicknotes who have barely kicked a ball this season? What about Whaley? Paul Mcveigh back? Not being able to motivate the players?No regrets at all?That man is delusional.

[Graham Humphrey 13]

[quote user="Bob Franklin"]Far from an "outburst". As for preparations, what has been written is merely hearsay and therefore of no relevance in judgement of Gunn. Despite, the allegations of lack of preparation, no one has come forward to dispute my claim that Gunn''s hastily assembled squad had the best pre-season in years.[/quote]

But you don''t get any points for winning games in pre-season. Any fool can win games and look good in pre-season when there is no pressure and nobody is playing at full pelt. The problem we had is that against Colchester, we still looked like we were in pre-season and couldn''t cope with a team that was certainly mentally and physically prepared for a league campaign. We were nowhere near that stage. Hence the accusations of poor and unprofessional preperation. The evidence was quite clear to see on the pitch.

[YankeeCanary 0]

[quote user="Bob Franklin"]

[quote user="morty"]So relegating the team he loves, then preparing for the new season so badly that we lose 7-1 aren''t worthy of maybe a smidgen of regret?

Words fail me.
[/quote]

God Morty that''s so naive. Gunn didn''t relegate the team, relegation resulted from several seasons of truly hopeless managers such as Roeder (IMO the absolute worst manager we have ever had, apart from Hamilton of course !) and Grant and years of truly inept direction and financial management. In my company I took over as departmental head with the previous incumbent being sacked for incompetence and abysmal failure to achieve corporate objectives. In fact, I discovered that his main failure was not getting rid of key staff in the department who had been there years and who resented being managed and it took me a couple of years to root them out and replace them with the right people. Forgive the expression but Gunn inherited a "load of gobsh____te" from Roeder and at the time many people, including posters on here, questioned Gunn''s wisdom at taking over such a heap of dung. Therefore, IMO Gunn is guilty only of (A) lack of commonsense in taking the job in the first place and (B) Theoklitis. I certainly don''t think he deserved the public criticism from McNally which I thought was unnecessary and unprofessional and I definitely don''t blame him for "taking us down". The rot had set in a long time before and it was an inexorable downward spiral with Gunn ill-advisedly taking over kust at the point of no return. Guilty of poor judgement in taking the job at the time (no one else wanted it including Boothroyd because they could see that the sharp downward trend could not be reversed in a mater of months) but not guilty of relegating us. And, no, despite the fact that I agree that Lambert is an excellent manager, he would not have avoided the drop either.

[/quote]

Bob, although you have not asked for it I''m going to give you some advice. I don''t expect you to take it as your posts tend to indicate a stubborn nature with an inability to see the forest for the trees.

I have wondered why you so persistently fail to see the clarity of the brief misadventure of Bryan Gunn as Norwich City manager. Your own words above now explain the reason. When faced with a new challenge as a department head at your company you say it took you two years to root out and replace people who resented being managed. Bob, if that is your idea of timely action then my advice to you is to take stock of yourself and look for ways you may improve because, if you think that is timely action, you need to be very careful before someone "roots" you out. That''s my advice....and it''s good advice.

Back to Bryan Gunn. I agree with almost all other observers that his input to the article shows both arrogance and also a lack of understanding at what has transpired. Although I have no evidence to support this I always thought the trip to Scotland for pre-season games was driven by a golf junket in the mistaken belief that this would warm the players to him.. They were within a good shout of St Andrew''s and other eastern courses. I may be wrong but I doubt it. Certainly the teams that we beat there by a single goal that Bob Franklin uses to cite a wonderful pre-season are not setting their Scottish seasons on fire. Mr. Gunn''s present responsibilities also seem to have leanings in the direction I''ve indicated, event type scenarios including golf outings and the like. Although I wish him well I will be very surprised if he is still employed there beyond the next year or so, and I would also be surprised to see him get back into the football world other than as perhaps a goalkeeping coach at a very low level club. 

[Paul Lamberts Disciple 0]

[quote user="Bob Franklin"]

Far from an "outburst".

[/quote]It was, through it''s blunt defiance.[quote user="Bob Franklin"]

 The 7-1 defeat was of course devastating and

I think our players and us fans were guilty of complacency.

[/quote]So it was the players and fans who were complacent. That clears things up.

[morty 0]

By pointing out people''s stupidity I am helping to make them better citizens.[;)]

[Scottlarock 3]

[quote user="YankeeCanary"][quote user="Bob Franklin"]

[quote user="morty"]So relegating the team he loves, then preparing for the new season so badly that we lose 7-1 aren''t worthy of maybe a smidgen of regret?Words fail me.[/quote]

God Morty that''s so naive. Gunn didn''t relegate the team, relegation resulted from several seasons of truly hopeless managers such as Roeder (IMO the absolute worst manager we have ever had, apart from Hamilton of course !) and Grant and years of truly inept direction and financial management. In my company I took over as departmental head with the previous incumbent being sacked for incompetence and abysmal failure to achieve corporate objectives. In fact, I discovered that his main failure was not getting rid of key staff in the department who had been there years and who resented being managed and it took me a couple of years to root them out and replace them with the right people. Forgive the expression but Gunn inherited a "load of gobsh____te" from Roeder and at the time many people, including posters on here, questioned Gunn''s wisdom at taking over such a heap of dung. Therefore, IMO Gunn is guilty only of (A) lack of commonsense in taking the job in the first place and (B) Theoklitis. I certainly don''t think he deserved the public criticism from McNally which I thought was unnecessary and unprofessional and I definitely don''t blame him for "taking us down". The rot had set in a long time before and it was an inexorable downward spiral with Gunn ill-advisedly taking over kust at the point of no return. Guilty of poor judgement in taking the job at the time (no one else wanted it including Boothroyd because they could see that the sharp downward trend could not be reversed in a mater of months) but not guilty of relegating us. And, no, despite the fact that I agree that Lambert is an excellent manager, he would not have avoided the drop either.

[/quote]

Bob, although you have not asked for it I''m going to give you some advice. I don''t expect you to take it as your posts tend to indicate a stubborn nature with an inability to see the forest for the trees.

I have wondered why you so persistently fail to see the clarity of the brief misadventure of Bryan Gunn as Norwich City manager. Your own words above now explain the reason. When faced with a new challenge as a department head at your company you say it took you two years to root out and replace people who resented being managed. Bob, if that is your idea of timely action then my advice to you is to take stock of yourself and look for ways you may improve because, if you think that is timely action, you need to be very careful before someone "roots" you out. That''s my advice....and it''s good advice.

Back to Bryan Gunn. I agree with almost all other observers that his input to the article shows both arrogance and also a lack of understanding at what has transpired. Although I have no evidence to support this I always thought the trip to Scotland for pre-season games was driven by a golf junket in the mistaken belief that this would warm the players to him.. They were within a good shout of St Andrew''s and other eastern courses. I may be wrong but I doubt it. Certainly the teams that we beat there by a single goal that Bob Franklin uses to cite a wonderful pre-season are not setting their Scottish seasons on fire. Mr. Gunn''s present responsibilities also seem to have leanings in the direction I''ve indicated, event type scenarios including golf outings and the like. Although I wish him well I will be very surprised if he is still employed there beyond the next year or so, and I would also be surprised to see him get back into the football world other than as perhaps a goalkeeping coach at a very low level club. 

[/quote]Airdrie (Scottish 3rd tier) at the time only had 12 players of their own - and if I remember correctly, they scored against us. 

[John 0]

[quote user="Bob Franklin"]

The 7-1 defeat was of course devastating and I think our players and us fans were guilty of complacency.

[/quote]My lord, can Gunn do anything wrong via your frankly daft reasoning?... Astonishing, it truly is.

[morty 0]

Bob Franklin is soooooo Bryan Gunn in disguise.Albeit a really shit one lol.

[Mike 2]

As much as he''s obviously hurt about McNally''s reasons for his sacking, it would suit Gunn to stop going on about it (this is the same as the views he expressed on Sky during the Leeds game, we don''t need reminding) and maybe just come out and express his 100% support for Lambert. Unfortunately, I think that McNally was 100% right and being a football man he probably knew before the 7-1 defeat that Gunn was not the man for the job. I believe that Gunn did no analysis of Colchester and just told his players to go prove they were the best!!! Also, as a keeper believing Theo was up to it (remember his "He was my first choice" quote) showed a complete misjudgement on what was needed.  He also wasted a good proportion of what little resource we had! Lambert has already talked about inheriting an unfit squad and the way they showed no passion at Charlton should have been enough for the board to realise they needed someone else.

It''s worked out for the best but I which he''d change the story, it''s dull now..... I do wish him well though.

[Levi Stubbs 0]

I am lead to believe that Gunn applied for the managers job several years ago, ( possibly at the end of Hamiltons reign?),but was turned down due to lack of experience and qualifications (i.e coaching badges).So what did Mr Gunn do about getting coaching badges etc., in the intervening period of him first applying for the job and eventually,somehow, getting it?Well I believe he played golf a lot...

[grantroederdisaster 0]

Of course Gunn would have no regrets cause he would do the same the again and the former board was the inept party during the incidents that led to Gunns appointment!

[dpit 1]

[quote user="morty"]By pointing out people''s stupidity I am helping to make them better citizens.

[;)][/quote]

And you accuse me of petty mindedness!

[morty 0]

[quote user="dpit"]

[quote user="morty"]By pointing out people''s stupidity I am helping to make them better citizens.[;)][/quote]

And you accuse me of petty mindedness!

[/quote]Yes, yes I do.[:)]

[dpit 1]

[quote user="morty"][quote user="dpit"]

[quote user="morty"]By pointing out people''s stupidity I am helping to make them better citizens.

[;)][/quote]

And you accuse me of petty mindedness!

[/quote]

Yes, yes I do.

[:)]
[/quote]

Now, if I were a mod I would delete all posts that use those maddeningly trite emoticon things.

[morty 0]

[quote user="dpit"][quote user="morty"][quote user="dpit"]

[quote user="morty"]By pointing out people''s stupidity I am helping to make them better citizens.[;)][/quote]

And you accuse me of petty mindedness!

[/quote]Yes, yes I do.[:)][/quote]

Now, if I were a mod I would delete all posts that use those maddeningly trite emoticon things.

[/quote]But you''re not.[:)]

[dpit 1]

[quote user="morty"][quote user="dpit"][quote user="morty"][quote user="dpit"]

[quote user="morty"]By pointing out people''s stupidity I am helping to make them better citizens.

[;)][/quote]

And you accuse me of petty mindedness!

[/quote]

Yes, yes I do.

[:)]
[/quote]

Now, if I were a mod I would delete all posts that use those maddeningly trite emoticon things.

[/quote]

But you''re not.

[:)]
[/quote]

[dpit 1]

[quote user="dpit"][quote user="morty"][quote user="dpit"][quote user="morty"][quote user="dpit"]

[quote user="morty"]By pointing out people''s stupidity I am helping to make them better citizens.

[;)][/quote]

And you accuse me of petty mindedness!

[/quote]

Yes, yes I do.

[:)]
[/quote]

Now, if I were a mod I would delete all posts that use those maddeningly trite emoticon things.

[/quote]

But you''re not.

[:)]
[/quote][/quote]

!

[morty 0]

I may even buy the paper tomorrow to read Bryan''s article, I could do with a laugh.