Ipswich, some facst to consider...

[Puzzy magnet 0]

There has been some robust debate on here recently about who is the bigger club, Ipswich or Norwich…

 

I know it is a bit tiresome sometimes, and from our yellow side of the fence we simply have to concede that *they* have won more than us.

But I thought I would state a few facts in the interest of informed debate:

 

1) Two of the three competitions for which Ipswich have stars on their shirts (don’t laugh) no longer exist. The UEFA Cup and the old Division One now fall into the same bracket as Betamax. Gone. This is emphasised by the fact Ipswich’s most-read fanzine and website is called Those WERE the days. Huddersfield won the old Division One three times in a row – does it make them a bigger club than us? Nope.

2) If we are to talk about trophies, Norwich are the most recent of the two to win a major trophy, the League Cup, a whopping 25 years ago. We are also the most recent club to win a trophy full stop. Only the Championship trophy yes, but a trophy Roy Roeder and Mr Invisible would kill for right now.

3) The Premier League; we have the highest-ever finish out of the two clubs. It would be a brave, or stupid, man to suggest the standard of the PL is not infinitely higher than that of the old Division One. We were indeed the last non bank-rolled or Big Four club to challenge for the PL title.

4) Crowds. I know it’s a touchy one Ipswich fans, but the fact we are getting bigger crowds than you – home and away – in a season when you have a high profile manager and money coming out of your ears, and we are skint and started the season with Bryan Gunn in charge in Division Three, perhaps shows once and for all that we have the bigger fanbase. It is a painful fact for our Suffolk brothers to concede, but it is true.

OTBC

[bjg123 0]

In the last 10 years they''ve played Uefa cup football and finished 5th in the Premiership...

[CUFC Linkin 0]

I think it''s Ipswich, there''s so many supporters theyre flooding Colchester! We''re Doooooooooooooomed!

[Cullum Ave A Go If You Think Youre Ard Enough 0]

Funny that Keane isn''t linked with any of the vacant Prem jobs...

[drinks 0]

"Funny that Keane isn''t linked with any of the vacant Prem jobs..."Maybe its to do with the fact that he''s a nut-job?

[Ealing Canary 0]

[quote user="Puzzy magnet "]

There has been some robust debate on here recently about who is the bigger club, Ipswich or Norwich…

 

I know it is a bit tiresome sometimes, and from our yellow side of the fence we simply have to concede that *they* have won more than us.

But I thought I would state a few facts in the interest of informed debate:

 

1) Two of the three competitions for which Ipswich have stars on their shirts (don’t laugh) no longer exist. The UEFA Cup and the old Division One now fall into the same bracket as Betamax. Gone. This is emphasised by the fact Ipswich’s most-read fanzine and website is called Those WERE the days. Huddersfield won the old Division One three times in a row – does it make them a bigger club than us? Nope.

2) If we are to talk about trophies, Norwich are the most recent of the two to win a major trophy, the League Cup, a whopping 25 years ago. We are also the most recent club to win a trophy full stop. Only the Championship trophy yes, but a trophy Roy Roeder and Mr Invisible would kill for right now.

3) The Premier League; we have the highest-ever finish out of the two clubs. It would be a brave, or stupid, man to suggest the standard of the PL is not infinitely higher than that of the old Division One. We were indeed the last non bank-rolled or Big Four club to challenge for the PL title.

4) Crowds. I know it’s a touchy one Ipswich fans, but the fact we are getting bigger crowds than you – home and away – in a season when you have a high profile manager and money coming out of your ears, and we are skint and started the season with Bryan Gunn in charge in Division Three, perhaps shows once and for all that we have the bigger fanbase. It is a painful fact for our Suffolk brothers to concede, but it is true.

OTBC

[/quote]

Don''t wanna stick up for the scum, but I''d prefer a far more watertight argument from us than this...

1) Those competitions you''ve mentioned do still exist, albeit under different names. They''re still, for all intents and purposes, the same competition.

2) If the scum can''t have the UEFA Cup and Division One due to them being rebranded, then we can''t claim the Milk Cup or the First Division (it wasn''t the Championship like you claim) on the grounds that they too have been rebranded.

3) Irrelevant to this topic, but what about Forest in 94/95, who finished 3rd like us in 92/93?

I hate to say that historically and currently, they are the bigger club - more trophies to their name and in a division above us. But what does it matter?! Despite our debts, I reckon we''ve now got the people at the helm, and, as you mentioned, the incredible fanbase and potential to really take this club forward - far more so than Ipswich. 6 points off them next season, and who''s gonna care about their history?!

[Ealing Canary 0]

Damn HTML...

[eddy melito 0]

[quote user="Puzzy magnet "]

There has been some robust debate on here recently about who is the bigger club, Ipswich or Norwich…

 

I know it is a bit tiresome sometimes, and from our yellow side of the fence we simply have to concede that *they* have won more than us.

But I thought I would state a few facts in the interest of informed debate:

 

1) Two of the three competitions for which Ipswich have stars on their shirts (don’t laugh) no longer exist. The UEFA Cup and the old Division One now fall into the same bracket as Betamax. Gone. This is emphasised by the fact Ipswich’s most-read fanzine and website is called Those WERE the days. Huddersfield won the old Division One three times in a row – does it make them a bigger club than us? Nope.

2) If we are to talk about trophies, Norwich are the most recent of the two to win a major trophy, the League Cup, a whopping 25 years ago. We are also the most recent club to win a trophy full stop. Only the Championship trophy yes, but a trophy Roy Roeder and Mr Invisible would kill for right now.

3) The Premier League; we have the highest-ever finish out of the two clubs. It would be a brave, or stupid, man to suggest the standard of the PL is not infinitely higher than that of the old Division One. We were indeed the last non bank-rolled or Big Four club to challenge for the PL title.

4) Crowds. I know it’s a touchy one Ipswich fans, but the fact we are getting bigger crowds than you – home and away – in a season when you have a high profile manager and money coming out of your ears, and we are skint and started the season with Bryan Gunn in charge in Division Three, perhaps shows once and for all that we have the bigger fanbase. It is a painful fact for our Suffolk brothers to concede, but it is true.

OTBC

[/quote]

 

im completely impartial in this as a colchester fan, but winning the division one title was all that was on offer back then whether it was as good a standard or not. they were still champions of this country! the milk cup is as defunct as both the 1st div title, and the uefa cup as they are all still played under different names/ slightly differently organised.

 

point 3. i take it you count villa as a big four club then as they came second above you in the league that year you claim you challenged for the title.

 

point 4. undoubtedly you get bigger crowds at the moment, but its not suprising with some of ipswich''s ticket prices! i went in the away end at the ipswich blackpool match recently and if i hadnt managed to get a comp ticket i would have had to pay£36 to get in that day!! QPR fans had the opportunity to buy tickets at £39 for their game as it was classed as group a. im not saying that is the only reason, but i reckon it would be at least a contributing factor.

[Mike 0]

[quote user="Puzzy magnet "]

There has been some robust debate on here recently about who is the bigger club, Ipswich or Norwich…

 

I know it is a bit tiresome sometimes, and from our yellow side of the fence we simply have to concede that *they* have won more than us.

But I thought I would state a few facts in the interest of informed debate:

 

1) Two of the three competitions for which Ipswich have stars on their shirts (don’t laugh) no longer exist. The UEFA Cup and the old Division One now fall into the same bracket as Betamax. Gone. This is emphasised by the fact Ipswich’s most-read fanzine and website is called Those WERE the days. Huddersfield won the old Division One three times in a row – does it make them a bigger club than us? Nope.

2) If we are to talk about trophies, Norwich are the most recent of the two to win a major trophy, the League Cup, a whopping 25 years ago. We are also the most recent club to win a trophy full stop. Only the Championship trophy yes, but a trophy Roy Roeder and Mr Invisible would kill for right now.

3) The Premier League; we have the highest-ever finish out of the two clubs. It would be a brave, or stupid, man to suggest the standard of the PL is not infinitely higher than that of the old Division One. We were indeed the last non bank-rolled or Big Four club to challenge for the PL title.

4) Crowds. I know it’s a touchy one Ipswich fans, but the fact we are getting bigger crowds than you – home and away – in a season when you have a high profile manager and money coming out of your ears, and we are skint and started the season with Bryan Gunn in charge in Division Three, perhaps shows once and for all that we have the bigger fanbase. It is a painful fact for our Suffolk brothers to concede, but it is true.

OTBC

[/quote]

 

Don''t forget the the highest gate in our history is us and the lowest competitive gate? Yep the binmen. There is NO argument we are the bigger club, just as they are the more successful team. Move on.... if only they could eh LOL!

[Mr.Carrow 376]

Also our post-war overall average attendance is higher than theirs, despite them being the more successful club (not by that much though!).  The fact is their support has always been poor and as my alot of my friends and family come from N.Suffolk i know that even in their "glory days" portman rd. was rarely sold out and people could walk up 10mins from kick-off and get in.

[jibbajabba 0]

Is there not an argument that a relative lack of success coupled with very impressive attendance figures can lead to complacency?

Perhaps, having empty seats acts as a spur to improve your product? What tangible benefit does being the bigger club actually deliver? Beyond pride or ego?

Is watching your team lose with 24 thousand others less painful than with 20 thousand? Is it sweeter to win with thousands of others rather than hundreds?

All this bigger club stuff is nonsense though really, not coming from this part of the world, I''m afraid to say, that most people regard teams like Ipswich and Norwich as pretty interchangeable - friendly clubs that (usually) bounce between the top two tiers.

If the Ipswich/Norwich debate were a boxing match, it would go the distance, and to a points decision, then maybe the toss of a coin.

[Puzzy magnet 0]

[quote user="jibbajabba"]Is there not an argument that a relative lack of success coupled with very impressive attendance figures can lead to complacency? Perhaps, having empty seats acts as a spur to improve your product? What tangible benefit does being the bigger club actually deliver? Beyond pride or ego? Is watching your team lose with 24 thousand others less painful than with 20 thousand? Is it sweeter to win with thousands of others rather than hundreds? All this bigger club stuff is nonsense though really, not coming from this part of the world, I''m afraid to say, that most people regard teams like Ipswich and Norwich as pretty interchangeable - friendly clubs that (usually) bounce between the top two tiers. If the Ipswich/Norwich debate were a boxing match, it would go the distance, and to a points decision, then maybe the toss of a coin.[/quote]

Don''t really care what the rest of the country thinks pal.

[Scottlarock 3]

[quote user="jibbajabba"]Is there not an argument that a relative lack of success coupled with very impressive attendance figures can lead to complacency?

Perhaps, having empty seats acts as a spur to improve your product? What tangible benefit does being the bigger club actually deliver? Beyond pride or ego?

Is watching your team lose with 24 thousand others less painful than with 20 thousand? Is it sweeter to win with thousands of others rather than hundreds?

All this bigger club stuff is nonsense though really, not coming from this part of the world, I''m afraid to say, that most people regard teams like Ipswich and Norwich as pretty interchangeable - friendly clubs that (usually) bounce between the top two tiers.

If the Ipswich/Norwich debate were a boxing match, it would go the distance, and to a points decision, then maybe the toss of a coin.[/quote]Interesting post and you''ve made a recovery from stitching City fans to the Colchester ticket office. Can''t really help you with the quote in bold - you''re best qualified to answer that.

[Ealing Canary 0]

[quote user="Puzzy magnet "]

[quote user="jibbajabba"]Is there not an argument that a relative lack of success coupled with very impressive attendance figures can lead to complacency? Perhaps, having empty seats acts as a spur to improve your product? What tangible benefit does being the bigger club actually deliver? Beyond pride or ego? Is watching your team lose with 24 thousand others less painful than with 20 thousand? Is it sweeter to win with thousands of others rather than hundreds? All this bigger club stuff is nonsense though really, not coming from this part of the world, I''m afraid to say, that most people regard teams like Ipswich and Norwich as pretty interchangeable - friendly clubs that (usually) bounce between the top two tiers. If the Ipswich/Norwich debate were a boxing match, it would go the distance, and to a points decision, then maybe the toss of a coin.[/quote]

Don''t really care what the rest of the country thinks pal.

[/quote]

What is the point of the argument if people outside of Norfolk/Suffolk''s opinions don''t matter then?! They''re obviously going to think they''re the bigger club, and likewise with us.

I agree with jibbajabba and just think that, as great as it is that we''re so well-supported, it seems as though we''re always playing the attendance card in these sorts of arguments. I think there''s more to being a so-called ''big club'' than that, and we have a lot of mismanagement over the years to undo before we can really stake a claim. I''m sure it will happen though, and can''t wait.

[bluemike 0]

Ealing its a pleasure to read posts from someone with sense.

[Shaun Tilly Lace 0]

[quote user="bluemike"]Ealing its a pleasure to read posts from someone with sense.
[/quote]

No wonder you come on this forum so frequently then, you won''t find anybody with any sense on twa.tted, or whatever that scummer message board is called.

[lordyfan 0]

well, huddersfield town STILL have their 3 stars for winning the old 1st division on their shirts. Surely we could have a few on ours?

[I am a Banana 0]

we are bigger and this proves it!

 

NORWICH Ipswich

 

PROVED [;)]

[lordyfan 0]

[quote user="lordyfan"]well, huddersfield town STILL have their 3 stars for winning the old 1st division on their shirts. Surely we could have a few on ours?[/quote]oops, it looked o.k when i posted it. Trust me, they still revel in it up here. How sad

[bluemike 0]

[quote user="I am a Banana"]

we are bigger and this proves it!

 

NORWICH Ipswich

 

PROVED [;)]

[/quote]Crikey so you are, but what an achievement for a village team with not many fans to win 3 major trophies during their history, to finish higher than their "bigger" local rivals in the football pyramid in 66% of seasons in which we have both competed, to have produced two of the greatest England managers ever seen, to have consistently brought through a steady stream of home grown talent, to have competed season after season in Europe, beating some of Europes finest. Yes without doubt I so wish we were you, with more fans, no semblence of success over the years, and the pleasure of trips to Exeter, walsall, Hartlepool etc. Life really sucks.

[Shaun Tilly Lace 0]

[quote user="bluemike"][quote user="I am a Banana"]

we are bigger and this proves it!

 

NORWICH Ipswich

 

PROVED [;)]

[/quote]Crikey so you are, but what an achievement for a village team with not many fans to win 3 major trophies during their history, to finish higher than their "bigger" local rivals in the football pyramid in 66% of seasons in which we have both competed, to have produced two of the greatest England managers ever seen, to have consistently brought through a steady stream of home grown talent, to have competed season after season in Europe, beating some of Europes finest. Yes without doubt I so wish we were you, with more fans, no semblence of success over the years, and the pleasure of trips to Exeter, walsall, Hartlepool etc. Life really sucks.
[/quote]

YAWNNNN!!!!! ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ! FECKIN BORING TWADDLE.

[jibbajabba 0]

[quote user="Pablo Picarsole"][quote user="bluemike"][quote user="I am a Banana"]

we are bigger and this proves it!

 

NORWICH Ipswich

 

PROVED [;)]

[/quote]Crikey so you are, but what an achievement for a village team with not many fans to win 3 major trophies during their history, to finish higher than their "bigger" local rivals in the football pyramid in 66% of seasons in which we have both competed, to have produced two of the greatest England managers ever seen, to have consistently brought through a steady stream of home grown talent, to have competed season after season in Europe, beating some of Europes finest. Yes without doubt I so wish we were you, with more fans, no semblence of success over the years, and the pleasure of trips to Exeter, walsall, Hartlepool etc. Life really sucks.[/quote]

YAWNNNN!!!!! ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ! FECKIN BORING TWADDLE.

[/quote]You are Stephen Fry and I claim my free QI Annual. [:D]

[drinks 0]

But still your team is managed by someone who "plays" with dogs. Nice...

[dizgoo 0]

[quote user="bluemike"][quote user="I am a Banana"]

we are bigger and this proves it!

 

NORWICH Ipswich

 

PROVED [;)]

[/quote]Crikey so you are, but what an achievement for a village team with not many fans to win 3 major trophies during their history, to finish higher than their "bigger" local rivals in the football pyramid in 66% of seasons in which we have both competed, to have produced two of the greatest England managers ever seen, to have consistently brought through a steady stream of home grown talent, to have competed season after season in Europe, beating some of Europes finest. Yes without doubt I so wish we were you, with more fans, no semblence of success over the years, and the pleasure of trips to Exeter, walsall, Hartlepool etc. Life really sucks.
[/quote]

 

How did you "produce" two of the greatest England managers? They didn''t go to Manager School in Ipswich. Their success is down to themselves not Ipswich Town!

 

Home-grown talent?

Dyer -  absolute crock

Richard Wright - No

Shane Supple - Spastic

Bent - may give you that one

Bowditch - who?

Dozzell - laughable  

 

[Puzzy magnet 0]

FAO bluemike

You forgot serial killing too. Ipswich is most famous for a serial killer. Just checked on Google, more people have searched the term Ipswich Ripper than Ipswich Town in the past 12 months. Oh dear...

[bluemike 0]

[quote user="Puzzy magnet "]

FAO bluemike

You forgot serial killing too. Ipswich is most famous for a serial killer. Just checked on Google, more people have searched the term Ipswich Ripper than Ipswich Town in the past 12 months. Oh dear...

[/quote]yes and he came from Norfolk.

[dizgoo 0]

[quote user="bluemike"][quote user="Puzzy magnet "]

FAO bluemike

You forgot serial killing too. Ipswich is most famous for a serial killer. Just checked on Google, more people have searched the term Ipswich Ripper than Ipswich Town in the past 12 months. Oh dear...

[/quote]yes and he came from Norfolk.
[/quote]

 

Just like Ramsey came from Essex and Robson came from Newcastle then?

So deffo not "produced" by you.

Toddle off and eat your Micro Chips you loser.

 

[bluemike 0]

Lets drag murder and incest into a debate when you cant win a football argument shall we ?

[dizgoo 0]

[quote user="bluemike"]Lets drag murder and incest into a debate when you cant win a football argument shall we ?
[/quote]

 

Who said anything about incest pal?

You''ve got your mum and your sister on the brain. Haven''t you got some Roy Keane interviews to fawn over?

[bluemike 0]

Its just the Norwich way of doing things im afraid, it usually transcends into that train of thought, when reality kicks in that your arguments about football dont actually stack up.