Did we expect too much?

[Saint Canary 0]

I can’t help feeling when I think back to the summer that a lot of us fans have set ourselves up for disappointment.  Everyone got so excited about some of the players we signed and placed unfair expectations on them.

 

Bentley: People went nuts on this board about what a fantastic signing he was.  Some of us pointed out at the time that he had played less than 10 first-team games and was only young.  Yet after a few games people were posting that he should be sent back to Arsenal etc etc.  What did we really expect from a young man with no experience who is realistically not playing in his favoured position.  Has looked better over recent weeks.

 

Jonson: Again a lot of excitement about this man but like Bentley is playing slightly out of position.  Has played all his football abroad.  Played a couple of games and was dropped to the bench with no real time to settle in to the club or English Football.  Was also slated after a few games.  I think (I may be wrong) we need to give the guy a few games up front to make a real judgement on him.

 

Helveg:  Played for 10 years in Serie A.  Was described by most people on this board as our most high profile signing ever and that he might just be the difference between us staying up or going down.  3 games into the season however he became rubbish and a few weeks ago most people wanted him gone from the club completely.  Again though as with Jonson & Bentley not playing in his favoured position of right-back.  Remember people he can play centre midfield but he is not a central midfielder.  There is a massive difference between the two.  Chris Sutton could play centre back but there is no way we would have sold him for £5m in that role.

 

At the end of the day, you really can’t judge these players yet, it has to be at the

[DumbleDelia is Magic 0]

I''ll hold my hands up here.  I didn''t expect us to walk the Premiership.  I knew just how hard it would be.  But my expectations for certain players (Bents, Helveg etc) were probably too high. 

[bananaman 0]

It''s very difficult.

People are disappointed in our results, slag off the team, the manager, the board, whoever.

But then, come the weekend, they say - "Should be a definite three points" or "We must win this one" thus setting themselves up for more disappointment!!

It''s just like England. You spend 1 and a half years thinking we''ll never win anything, then when a tournament comes round you think - "This could be our time!"

[susie b 0]

Some good points made by all.  I think I''m guilty - of not expecting much at all, and that''s probably just as bad!  I''m still glad we are where we are and delighted at what we''ve achieved.  It''s perhaps high time I started expecting things of those I hold in such high esteem or else I might still be wearing a smile in May...whether we stay up or not.  I feel a New Year''s Resolution coming on - HELP!!! 

[Pete Raven 276]

I expected us to be in the bottom three at Christmas, so in that respect my expectations have been exceeded.

[Gentleman Jim 0]

I said from day one that we would finish in 17th. place.

Expectations remain intact !     

 

[DH 0]

I always thought it would be a struggle but that we could battle it out with the bottom 6 and I think thats whats going to happen. It is hard when new players come in, especially those we bought as high expectations because of their experience but then for them to adjust 1 to a new club and 2 to the Premiership we can''t expect immediate results. I''m more hopeful of second half of season now that the whole team has experienced playing everyone once, done Stamford Bridge, done Old Trafford, done Anfield, just Highbury to go on the big list.

To borrow an advertising slogan;

The future looks bright, the future is Yellow!!!!

[ZLF 271]

My expectations for the club have been exceeded - like peter I expected us to be propping up the table due to an inexperienced management team and a rebuilt side on the pitch. I recall posting that finishing 17th this season would be a far far greater acheivement than winning the championship last season and I retain that view and still think 17th is the best we can hope for.

One the pitch some of the players have yet to show their full potential while some are exceeding their previous best - overall they have gelled better and performed better than they should - we still dont really have enough ability in the squad.

Worthy gets a D+ so far, he too much faith shown in his old retainers, favoured the long distance runner over footballing ability, changed tactics too quickly and continually puts players in positions that do not suit them. However there are signs that the tactical approach is slowly slowly oh so slowly improving. His greatest strength is his ability to build a true team spirit and get 100% committment from the whole team, from arrogant youngsters to international stars - a factor that is too often overlooked by use eagerly critical fans.

In many ways Lozza is right - it is to our advantage that so many clubs are in such disarray and that we can survive because of that and the stability we enjoy.

OTBC

[FilletTheFishWife . 0]

we could be relegated at the end of season. it would be folly to judge players as bad players after the damage has been done. It''ll be a long time before we get a second chance and do you really think the likes of Helveg, Jonson and Bentley will hang around for championship football (or whether we could afford to keep them)?

Bentley has definitely improved in the last couple of matches and I hope it continues.

As for Helveg, when he joined his versatility was heralded and now some are saying he can only be judged when playing right-back !

As for Jonson, I think he''s very average and hardly sets the pulse racing. That''s why he rarely manages 90 mins. I think he''s lucky there''s not much competition for right-midfield. 

The real success story has been Charlton. He didn''t need half-a-season to settle in and has played well in both centre back and left-back.

However, we''re 17th and that''s good enough although I think we shouldn''t  crow about this until after the Spurs and Mboro matches (when we''ve played everyone at least once and we''ve played at least half the matches).

 

 

[StevenageFan 0]

good topic this, well done.

My expectations were 17th, but having seen some glimpses of brilliance from Bentley, Jonsson and Helveg I am now sure all 3 will feature heavily in the remainder of the season and I am sure that all 3 have still to reach top form in a Yellow shirt.   I think 15th could be ours by the end of the season and Helveg, Jonsson or Bentley will get player of the year.

Also agree that Jonsson should take Svenson''s place upfront for a few games.

[no1canary 0]

[quote]I always thought it would be a struggle but that we could battle it out with the bottom 6 and I think thats whats going to happen. It is hard when new players come in, especially those we bought as hi...[/quote]

don''t forget st.james'' park. and we got a point there aswell!!!

[Bird Table 0]

I would have been very pleased if you''d told me in the summer that we wouldn''t be in the bottom three at Christmas. Still a long way to go though.

[Northern Canary 0]

well i never expected that it would take us so long to win, i knew it would be hard but it didnt quite set in. I never thought any of the signings were any good. I was exited about Helveg and thats about it. I was disappointed with the lack of money spent

[DumbleDelia is Magic 0]

I think Pete and Zipper make a good point.  Although I probably expected too much of our signings I thoroughly believed we would be in the bottom 3 at Christmas.  17th all year will do me fine!

[shropshire canary 0]

I think that the thing that''s worked out different from my expectation is less defeats, less wins and more draws. That said I had hoped for 15th/16th, am pleased to have reached Xmas in 17th and will continue praying that it''s not 18th/19th come the end of the season (The baggies are surely doomed to 20th now?)

My one belief is that we are still learning, still improving and with a little luck the best is yet to come.

That said if 1.2 mill could buy 17th spot that would be the best investment we could make!!

[Old Boy 0]

Of the new boys, I agree that Charlton has been the biggest plus, particularly at left back. I also think Safri is a great acquisition, and Bentley could be (until he goes back, and if he plays like he can do). And 17th is absolutely fine by me - I was, and still am, fairly sure that we''ll go back down. The fact that the top 5 are hoovering up most of the points, and that the middle 10 are so close is good news for us: long may it continue. Don''t really care how we do it, if we stay in this league we''ve done something like we did last season.

[Saint Canary 0]

[quote]we could be relegated at the end of season. it would be folly to judge players as bad players after the damage has been done. It''ll be a long time before we get a second chance and do you really think...[/quote]

When should we judge them Fillet?  Now, halfway through the season?  If thats the case then Worthy is going to have to stretch that £1.2m a long way as half our sqaud probably need getting rid of.

As for Helveg''s versatility, when he signed I remember being told his best positions were right-back or right-midfield and there is a massive difference in playing in the centre of the pitch.  Being able to cover a position doesn''t mean you are comfortable there week in week out.  Your point about Charlton settling in is pretty much irrelevant.  You cannot compare Charlton a player that has played most of his career in the top english division, to players coming in from abroad.  Bergkamp & Henry did very little in the first 6 months they played in the PL.

If people feel we should just forget these players then fine but remind me, how well did Iwan do in his first season with us?  Awful, but he is now a legend. 

[FilletTheFishWife . 0]

Saint Canary,

Your response is valid but there was always a strong possibility that this would be our only season in the top flight.
Which begs the questions:
1) why gamble on players who might take so long to settle in (Other teams with bigger transfer budgets and larger squads can take these risks - we shouldn''t have). should we have bought 5 Simon Charltons instead ?
2) One of Helveg''s best positions was right-midfield eh? Based on the Everton match (and I know its only 45 mins ...but that''s all Hendo got) I would beg to differ and I don''t think he played too well at right back either (and I know that''s only 2 games but thats more Brennan got and he played better too). In fact, his best game was ironically in centre midfield !
3) Helveg and Jonson are international players with the former having played in Serie A. Its hardly comparable with Iwan and should we really need excuses for them.

But don''t get me wrong. I''ll be happy as anyone if we finish 17th I''ll be delighted and if we do and pleased if our Scandinavian friends make their contribution.

[Saint Canary 0]

I think NW has to take as much of blame as players like Jonson & Helveg.  One minute there in the team, then they are out and then in playing a different position and then dropped again.  NW has (not his fault with injuries) not kept the same team together for more than two games.  How can anyone settle?  How can the team gel as a unit?  I''m sure half the reason we let in so many goals is down to the fact we never have a settled midfield.

I do agree that buying in players from abroad was a bit risky especially as we have such a small squad and I can''t remember NW buying a player from abroad before.

[ZLF 271]

The iwan comparison does hold some water though. iwan was proven at this level and used to the English game - we had more reason to expect that he would perform at the level we were playing quite quickly.

However just about every overseas player who comes to the premiership struggles to a greater or lesser degree in their first season here. One of the reason the English national side struggles to reach the last semis of major tournaments is that our game focus'' too greatly on the physical side of the game rather than great technique. We kick the game off at 100 mph and it stays there or gets quicker but at the detriment to ability. This physical game is pushed into players from their first coaching session so its no surprise the likes of Worthy value it so much. (I am not knocking the English game - it is far more entertaining to watch than most foreign leagues and is a better overall package than any league in the world).

However it does mean that if Iwan struggled for a season in a league he is used to then a period of adjustment must not come as a surprise to allow overseas players to pick up the pace of our game. As such supremely talented players Bergkamp, Henry & Reyes all struggled for 6-9 months our Swedes need that same time to allow them to be truly judged.

No one picks up the pace of the game by sitting on the bench or by compounding that mistake by playing them out of their best position. As saint says Worthy has a lot to answer for on that one.

OTBC

[Saint Canary 0]

I just can''t help thinking we would have got our first win quicker and maybe turned some of the draws into wins if NW had stuck with the side that drew with Crystal Palace for 10 games.  I would really love to see Nigel pick a side and stick with it.  Even Mourinho with all those quality players has a "Best 11" but Nigel doesn''t seem to know what his is.

As people (I think Zipper) have said in the past, finishing 17th would be a greater achievement than winning the 1st Division.  I truely beleive this but I can''t imagine we will finish higher.

At the end of day, we have spent very little money.  I''m pretty sure we spent more money the last time we were in the PL than this time around and that was 10 years ago.  We can''t expect too much!