Shyster 0 Posted December 14, 2009 The problem is that Lambo only has half the option of plan B (McNamee) at his disposal -- Plan A (the cracked diamond) has been exposed once again - it was exposed in the second meeting of the season against Carlisle and ditto against Yeovil; two of the more tactically naive sides in this Division I hasten to add. If it were simply a case of the defense having a "collective" off day (as many have suggested), Lambo would''ve changed the system when Yeovil equalised, but what might that have entailed? Bringing on half the option of plan B in McNamee? Yes it would, and that would''ve given us the lop-sided look we''ve witnessed previous seasons; a style of play that''s even easier to counter than the ''cracked diamond'', and ultimately a style of play that lead us to relegation. As we''re still paying a high percentage of Whaley''s wages, I think it''s time he was recalled - if Lambo can''t inspire him to be arsed then there can''t be many managers who can, but with the second half of the season looming, it''s time we found out if Whaley is the answer to completing the option of plan B - sooner rather than later.So it''s Whaley or the money? - Albert Adomah wouldn''t mind eight grand per week. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
blahblahblah 2 Posted December 14, 2009 2 wingers = a requirement for 2 central defensive midfielders. Russell + who ?And if Whaleys on 8 k a week, I should be on 4, and I''m an office worker. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shyster 0 Posted December 14, 2009 [quote user="blahblahblah"]2 wingers = a requirement for 2 central defensive midfielders. Russell + who ?And if Whaleys on 8 k a week, I should be on 4, and I''m an office worker.[/quote]Mick Spillane. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted December 14, 2009 [quote user="Shyster"] Albert Adomah wouldn''t mind eight grand per week.[/quote]EIGHT GRAND A WEEK?! Is that true? If so, who the bloody hell thought that was a good idea!Agree with you in general Shyster, we are looking less free-flowing as Winter draws in and pitches start to cut up. Certainly, Hoolahan has not looked as effective in the last few away games. The problem is, as much as I would love to sign Adomah, would that be sacrificing some of the solidity that the diamond offers, making our defence even shakier? Is the 4-4-2 really better suited to playing at home, where the diamond has been very effective anyway?One thing is for sure, Lambert needs to at least be given these options, and strengthen in January if we''re going to maintain 2.2 points a game. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shack Attack 0 Posted December 14, 2009 You''ve confused me a little here Shyster. I always thought your main objection to the diamond was that we were too predictable in attack and that as Winter takes hold we will be unable to pass our way through the middle of teams. Whilst I don''t necessarily agree with that opinion I can see where you''re coming from. Are you know suggesting that it makes us more vulnerable defensively as well or am I missing the point you''re trying to make?We scored three goals away from home on Saturday which should be ample to win any game. I can''t see how the second half of ''Plan B'' (having two pacy wingers at our disposal) would have improved our chances of stopping Yeovil from scoring which seems to have been the reason we dropped two points. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ca 1 Posted December 14, 2009 I think we should recall him and give him a chance, could be that Lambert/Culverhouse could inspire him Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
blahblahblah 2 Posted December 14, 2009 Could 4-1-4-1 be the way forward perhaps ? It seems popular in the Prem - How would you crowbar Martin and Hoolahan into that though ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Askounin 0 Posted December 14, 2009 Tbh i cant see whaley playing for us again under Lambert i think his face doesnt fit and he will probably leave in Jan if not at the end of the season. As for Adamoah i think he has his sights set on a move to Blackpool, with them being in a higher league and having more finances than us presumably i should think thats where he will end up. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Robert N. LiM 4,004 Posted December 14, 2009 The only way I can see of abandoning the diamond and accommodating Hoolahan would be to play him as the second striker. In that case, I would suggest that we need one out-and-out winger, and one all-purpose wide midfielder who can defend ok and attack ok. The obvious contender for the second role is Lappin, which would ideally mean that the out-and-out winger would be a right-sided player. Alternatively, you have McNamee on the left and one of our many midfielders doing a job on the right.So the front of the team would look like this Holt HoolahanLappin Russell Hughes Whaley/new right winger or Holt HoolahanMcNamee Russell Hughes SmithI''m not sure either of those looks as well-balanced as the diamond. And I can''t see a way of playing Martin, Holt and Hoolahan in that formation. And playing with two out-and-out wingers would leave us very short of solidity. It''s difficult to avoid the conclusion that, with its admitted faults, the diamond is still the best way of getting the best out of the players that we do have.As far as I see it, one of the problems with our current formation is that neither of our front two have any pace, so canny opposing managers can get their back four to push up and their midfield to sit deep, hugely shutting down the space between them where Hoolahan likes to operate. It might actually be that a pacy striker rather than a pacy winger, is what we need in January, to provide an alternative to Martin if the formation isn''t working...I don''t have a solution - I''m just thinking aloud, really. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
a1canary 0 Posted December 14, 2009 It''s only a ''saga'' because you''ve turned it into one Shyster!!Lambert has chosen this because he believes it suits the players he has at his disposal. I''ll wager that since he has adopted it, we''ve got more points and scored more goals than any other team in the division.Doesn''t sound very ''cracked'' to me.If he wants to go 4-4-2 with wingers he will do so when he feels he has the quality and the staff at his disposal.For what it''s worth, i think as CA says he should give Whaley a chance, just as he did with Hooly, Rusty and the Doc. They are now permanent fixtures in the side so i see no reason why Whaley couldn''t play a part also. I have still yet to understand why people so quickly turned on him and decided he was useless on the basis of so little evidence. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
In Dubious Battle 0 Posted December 14, 2009 [quote user="Shyster"][quote user="blahblahblah"]2 wingers = a requirement for 2 central defensive midfielders. Russell + who ?And if Whaleys on 8 k a week, I should be on 4, and I''m an office worker.[/quote]Mick Spillane.[/quote]Injured and best used in defense Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BlyBlyBabes 0 Posted December 14, 2009 Whalley on 8 grand a week.And he has to be inspired on top of that?Good grief!OTBC Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BIC 0 Posted December 14, 2009 Come off it, he''s not on 8K a week. I defy anyone to provide any solid evidence for that Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Salopian 1 Posted December 14, 2009 The problem is not the formation itself , Many teams employ a 4-3-3 system very effectively. Our problem is lack of pace (Lappin, Smith, Drury, etc.or general quality of the team apart from the front three. If our fullbacks were speedy wing-backs able to get forward and also get back quickly, then the narrowness of the diamond would not matter.In other words the diamond is a reflection of quality - only the front three are likely to be outstanding in Division 1, and Hoolahan is not trusted with defensive duties. We had a similar problem in accommodating Hux. If you are going to play 4-3-3, then you have to rely on one of the front three doing defensive duties, and one or two of the middle three getting forward rapidly. We seem to have done this pretty well, but recently the back four have failed, and thrown the whole formation into question. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rastaman 0 Posted December 14, 2009 I like the Christmas Tree formation at Christmas! 4-3-2-1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BlyBlyBabes 0 Posted December 14, 2009 [quote user="BIC"]Come off it, he''s not on 8K a week. I defy anyone to provide any solid evidence for that[/quote]Well, that''s what Shyster implied in the OP.OTBC Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Norma Stick 0 Posted December 14, 2009 1. If Whaley is on £8k a week, he should be sued under the trade description act2. It doesn''t matter what formation is played to include Whaley. The guy is utter plop. He has no football brain or tactical acumen. Saw him in the early season reserve game against Southend''s kids and he was roaming around like a little boy lost. He took a whack in the 1st half and it looked at one point that he couldn''t continue. At that point I turned to my mate and said that if they stretchered him off no-one would know the difference.If we can get a set of training bibs or cones for him, take it. He ain''t worth a lot more than that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
a1canary 0 Posted December 14, 2009 Salopian: "recently the back four have failed..."Presumably you base this assertion on the Yeovil and Saints games? Since these are the only league games where we haven''t actually won playing the diamond formation. (Or lost mind you!)Our defensive record since Lambert adopted the diamond is probably the best in the league. Even if you take the form guide for the last 8 games which includes the Yeovil and Saints games, our goals against average is bettered only by Leeds.http://itv.stats.football365.com/dom/ENG/D2/oform.htmlCan''t understand what people''s problem is with it. We''ve won 6 and drawn two of 8 league games. What more do people want! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
blahblahblah 2 Posted December 14, 2009 [quote user="a1canary"] What more do people want![/quote]A Plan B. [:)] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lurd 0 Posted December 14, 2009 Adomah was Gunn''s target, not Lambert''s. What makes you think we are still interested? If Lambert doesn''t rate Whaley because of his attitude (which is what I''ve heard), then he can f*ck off back up north.How can you say the diamond has cracked? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
a1canary 0 Posted December 14, 2009 McNamee is clearly part of the plan B and i agree i''d quite like to see it in action but maybe he hasn''t completed the jigsaw. Maybe the ''one that got away'' was a right winger.I think he still feels we''re no better off playing 4-4-2 when we still haven''t got a genuine right winger at the club among the senior pros. Apart from Whaley of course. But i don''t see any point in switching to plan B when plan A, by all normal measures, is still working! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
king canary 7,455 Posted December 14, 2009 Ok lets start with Whaley, not a chance he is on 8k a week. Thats just plucked out of thin air but I am sure it will catch on like Lita''s 25k a week wages...As for the whole plan B thing, I agree an injection of pace would be good, but I also agree that having two wingers with pace would not have helped us defend better against Yeovil which is where the problems stemmed from. I dont see Lambert as a 4-4-2 with attacking pacy players down both flanks sort of manager. Personally I think the system would leave us a bit too exposed down the flanks. The diamond is not cracked nor been figured out yet but a plan B would be nice. If we have two players with pace down the flanks I would be tempted with 4-2-3-1, have Wes or Martin behind Holt with McNamee and an other down the flanks, allowing Russel and Smith/Lappin to sit back. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DDD In The Fine City 1 Posted December 14, 2009 [quote user="Shyster"]The problem is that Lambo only has half the option of plan B (McNamee) at his disposal -- Plan A (the cracked diamond) has been exposed once again - it was exposed in the second meeting of the season against Carlisle and ditto against Yeovil; two of the more tactically naive sides in this Division I hasten to add. If it were simply a case of the defense having a "collective" off day (as many have suggested), Lambo would''ve changed the system when Yeovil equalised, but what might that have entailed? Bringing on half the option of plan B in McNamee? Yes it would, and that would''ve given us the lop-sided look we''ve witnessed previous seasons; a style of play that''s even easier to counter than the ''cracked diamond'', and ultimately a style of play that lead us to relegation. As we''re still paying a high percentage of Whaley''s wages, I think it''s time he was recalled - if Lambo can''t inspire him to be arsed then there can''t be many managers who can, but with the second half of the season looming, it''s time we found out if Whaley is the answer to completing the option of plan B - sooner rather than later.So it''s Whaley or the money? - Albert Adomah wouldn''t mind eight grand per week.[/quote] we didn''t play the diamond first time against Yeovil we played 4-4-2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lurd 0 Posted December 14, 2009 How was the diamond exposed when we scored 3 goals? It was our sloppy defending that lost us 2 points.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BlyBlyBabes 0 Posted December 14, 2009 The bottom line is that good enough players at a particular level can make almost any system work.It will be very interesting to see what the mix will be come next February 2nd.OTBC Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lurd 0 Posted December 14, 2009 [quote user="BlyBlyBabes"]The bottom line is that good enough players at a particular level can make almost any system work.It will be very interesting to see what the mix will be come next February 2nd.OTBC [/quote]We don''t have a game that day. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mister Chops 7 Posted December 14, 2009 [quote user="BlyBlyBabes"][quote user="BIC"]Come off it, he''s not on 8K a week. I defy anyone to provide any solid evidence for that[/quote]Well, that''s what Shyster implied in the OP.OTBC[/quote]Come off it, he''s not on 8K a week. I defy anyone to provide any solid evidence for that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shyster 0 Posted December 14, 2009 Dirtbox - [quote]we didn''t play the diamond first time against Yeovil we played 4-4-2 [/quote]Come on, Dirtbox, I know you''re brighter than this - the purpose of the ''second half of the season/return meetings'' prediction has always served as indication to how I believe events would unfold if we continued to rely on the diamond -- all of this Divisions sides will have observed and prepared for our faltering deployment of players by now, regardless of the lop-sided (yet hugely up for it owing to the heavy loss against C*ntchester) 4-4-2 versus Yeovil reserves.The option I yearn for is an attacking 4-4-2 formation.I don''t want to lose the diamond altogether - Christ no, it''s a vital option that''s served us well and could continue to do so if Plan B comes into fruition - but I do feel the time has come for Lambo to place that inherited stone into his trackie''s and buff it up via a game or three of pocket billiards whilst viewing the option of Plan B.and you don''t need me to remind you that football is a testosterone fuelled game.So let''s hope that Mr Lambert is supplied the erection he requires to see us promoted.For the Shyster foresees a flaccid finish outside the play-offs otherwise. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZLF 261 Posted December 14, 2009 whaley or the money? Def the money; nothing I have seen from whalley suggests he can justify that cash or add anything to our team by giving us a viable alternative formation.Anyway - 3rd in the table suggests that its not a cracked diamond merely flawed - and I understand that the perfect diamond is a rarity; that makes flawed diamonds highly desirable - as is they case with our current side.However I agree we need options on the bench - so dispose of Whalley and I assume that is what PL is planning to do and so (probably) partially fund McNamee and Martin Share this post Link to post Share on other sites